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Apple Plugs Software Update Hole

hype7 writes "Apple's getting quick! Less than 5 days after the recently reported software update vulnerability was discovered, Apple have a patch plugging the hole. Apparently, packages now presented via the Software Update mechanism are cryptographically signed, and the new Software Update client 1.4.6 checks for a valid signature before installing any new packages."

181 comments

  1. Apple by FigBugDeux · · Score: 2, Funny

    Was there a worm hole in the apple?

    1. Re:Apple by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Was there a worm hole in the apple?

      Did you know that worms hate wormholes! I guess no faster than light travel for them!

  2. "Mac's don't have bugs" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "they have patches :D"

    1. Re:"Mac's don't have bugs" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Patches? We don need no steekin patches!

    2. Re:"Mac's don't have bugs" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Mac users can't figure out how to install them ;)

    3. Re:"Mac's don't have bugs" by mAIsE · · Score: 0

      Mac users are statically more intelligent than Windows users.

      So maybe that isn't saying a whole lot ;)

    4. Re:"Mac's don't have bugs" by jimbolaya · · Score: 3, Funny

      Yeah, yeah, yeah, and Microsoft doesn't have bugs, either. They have service packs...and service packs...and service packs...

      --

      There ain't no rules here; we're trying to accomplish something.

    5. Re:"Mac's don't have bugs" by zapfie · · Score: 2

      Actually, when you are connected to the 'net, a Software Update window will occasionally automagically appear, when there are new/critical updates available. You just check off the ones you want, and hit install. It couldn't be easier.

      --
      slashdot!=valid HTML
  3. That's a good thing. by vegetablespork · · Score: 3, Funny

    We wouldn't want all those people more intelligent than the rest of us to get rooted.

    --

    Call (206) 338-5780 COLLECT for information about a genuine BA, BS, MA, MS, MBA, or Ph.D.

    1. Re:That's a good thing. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Mac users get rooted (laid in Yank speak) more often too!

  4. how do you update? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    Do you use the software update mechanism to update the software update mechanism?

    1. Re:how do you update? by O · · Score: 1

      yes.

      --

      1, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 21 -- Mathematics is the Language of Nature.
    2. Re:how do you update? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      No go here
      http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=7 53 04

      http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=7 53 04#checksum

    3. Re:how do you update? by jeffasselin · · Score: 3, Informative
      No, actually you download it from Apple's web site and verify the integrity of the downloaded file using the instructions on the web site, using sha1 to get a checksum and compare it to the one they give there. That way you ensure the update is the right file, and from now on you can use software update securely.

      Checksum info

      --
      If he explores all forms and substances Straight homeward to their symbol-essences; He shall not die.
    4. Re:how do you update? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Security Update 7-12-02 ... will be available soon through the Software Update"

      http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=7 53 04

    5. Re:how do you update? by rekoil · · Score: 1

      To be more accurate, you can either download the patch using Apple Software Update or download it manually, check the sig, and install.

    6. Re:how do you update? by CyberBry · · Score: 2, Informative

      Yes, the update is available in Software Update.
      Here's what the description says:

      Security Update 7-12-02 delivers a more secure Software Update service to verify that future updates originate from Apple. If you would prefer to download this manually from a secure Apple server you can download the package at http://www.info.apple.com/kbnum/n75304

      --

      ----
      Bryan Samis
      http://www.thesamis.net
    7. Re:how do you update? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes...and that is pretty ironic...

      But kudos to Apple for being timely in their security updates in general, including this one.

  5. Doesnt MS already do that? by jeffy124 · · Score: 1, Offtopic

    IIRC, doesnt MS's Windows Update already do something like SHA1 (or some other algorithm) signiture checking?

    --
    The One Rule Of Chess You'll Ever Need: Don't play someone who carries a kit in their bookbag.
    1. Re:Doesnt MS already do that? by Peyna · · Score: 1, Flamebait

      Probably, and it also checks driver updates to see if they're signed or not, but you can still tell it to install (since not every driver is going to be signed, especially if it was just released).

      --
      What?
    2. Re:Doesnt MS already do that? by alfredo · · Score: 2

      No telling what else it does without your permission. Remember the WMP, Passport, XP EULA.

      Yes, I read the Aplle EULAs

      --
      photosMy Photostream
    3. Re:Doesnt MS already do that? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      why the hell is THAT offtopic? The poster was correct, MS has used signed packages in product updates for years, while Apple appears to have just started (which is the topic of this article). Therefore - the post was ONTOPIC.

      Moderators - is the fancy acronym SHA1 confusing you? It stands for Secure Hash Algorithm version 1. It's used to ensure data traveling from Point A to Point B was actually from Point A, not Point C pretending to be Point A.

    4. Re:Doesnt MS already do that? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      FLAMEBAIT!? THat's pure truth there. He's verifying what was stated by the other poster. Therefore, the post was INFORMATIVE.

      Flamebait is used for things like calling people names and profanity. Like this: "that moderator is a mother fucking pain in the ass cunt"

    5. Re:Doesnt MS already do that? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're a mother fucking pain in the ass cunt! Bitch!

  6. Wow...5 days by lucifuge31337 · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    Micrisift is nipping at their heels on turnround time. What a great position to be in.

    (Insert obligtatory Linux plug here)

    --
    Do not fold, spindle or mutilate.
  7. Good for Apple! by dpbsmith · · Score: 1, Redundant

    Subject line says all...

  8. I know this smacks of paranoia by Dirk+Pitt · · Score: 0, Troll
    but wouldn't it benefit apple to introduce a problem that they had the solution to already, so they could quickly "develop" the patch? This would be great fodder for a marketing campaign.

    I know, I know. I should go work on discrediting the Apollo missions, too. ;-)

    1. Re:I know this smacks of paranoia by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh yeah, definitely. I mean hey, the best way to gain a reputation in the security market is to pretend you have vulnerabilities in your OS and then patch them up, rather than just claim it's secure despite all the evidence to the contrary. I think you might be onto something there. Just like cars, right? The best way to gain leverage in the safe car market is to randomly produce a line of family cars that explode upon starting, then recall them and "develop" a safer car.

      If you're going to try and troll the comments, at least try something better than that. Throw in a comment about how most Linux distributions are full of holes too, or introduce the ever-popular "Winbl0wzzzz" into your conversation.

  9. stating the obvious, but... by siliconwafer · · Score: 3, Interesting

    As a Tibook owner I'm darn glad Apple is getting more serious about releasing security patches. Now that they've entered the server market (with the Xserve), they really have no choice.

    1. Re:stating the obvious, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, they do have a choice, as evidenced by Microsoft's (non) patching of holes in Win2k Server.

  10. Actually, it's only half-fixed... by imac.usr · · Score: 5, Insightful
    ...that is, until this is backported to OS 9.

    True, Apple has said that OS 9 is dead, but there's a hell of a lot of installations out there, and they all use an insecure Software Update mechanism as well. Apple needs to do the right thing and fix it for those who haven't upgraded because they can't (like those with hardware whose drivers haven't been updated yet), and to prevent Classic from becoming its own security hole.

    --
    I use Macs for work, Linux for education, and Windows for cardplaying.
    1. Re:Actually, it's only half-fixed... by discstickers · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I don't think most OS 9 users are worried about getting rooted by script kiddies.

      --
      I have a shitty sig!
    2. Re:Actually, it's only half-fixed... by KFury · · Score: 5, Informative

      and to prevent Classic from becoming its own security hole.

      This wouldn't be a problem for the average user running OS X and classic, since the OS 9 version of software update wouldn't ever be launched. Only the Os X version would be activated regularly to check for updates.

      True that until they patch the OS 9 version similarly there will be a lingering risk for people running OS 9 as their primary OS, but not for those using it in Classic mode.

    3. Re:Actually, it's only half-fixed... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wasn't it like a month ago they released an update to CarbonLib they encouraged everyone to get, and you had to boot to OS 9 and run software update there to get it?

    4. Re:Actually, it's only half-fixed... by benh57 · · Score: 1

      Actually, from what I understand (ok, someone on #macdev mentioned) that OS9 security updates are already digitally signed.

    5. Re:Actually, it's only half-fixed... by mattkinabrewmindspri · · Score: 1
      Since Apple isn't going to be releasing more software for OS 9, you should just disable OS 9 software update, and you won't have any problem.

      Knowing that there will be no more OS 9 updates, why would someone be running OS 9 Software Update anyway?

    6. Re:Actually, it's only half-fixed... by KFury · · Score: 2

      "Wasn't it like a month ago they released an update to CarbonLib they encouraged everyone to get, and you had to boot to OS 9 and run software update there to get it?"

      No.

    7. Re:Actually, it's only half-fixed... by rfovell · · Score: 1

      This wouldn't be a problem for the average user running OS X and classic, since the OS 9 version of software update wouldn't ever be launched.

      Actually, Classic regularly launches OS 9's Software Update on my Cube, every Monday night. A holdover from when I was using OS 9 as my main system, more than 1 year ago.

      I realize now that the reason I didn't deactivate it is because I'm not an average user. I thought I was just being lazy ;-)

      --
      Every rule has an exception (except this one).
    8. Re:Actually, it's only half-fixed... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thanks for clearing that up. I guess I was imagining this then.

    9. Re:Actually, it's only half-fixed... by KFury · · Score: 1

      You: "Wasn't it like a month ago they released an update to CarbonLib they encouraged everyone to get, and you had to boot to OS 9 and run software update there to get it?"
      Me: "No"
      You: "Thanks for clearing that up. I guess I was imagining this then."

      No, you weren't imagining the article, just the part where you interpreted it to mean "you had to boot to OS 9 and run software update there to get it." There were direct download links in the story body itself.

      More to the point though, my original post was written to make the point that the average OS X user has no reason to fear Software Update while running in Classic mode. 'Booting up into OS 9 and running Software Update' is not the same as running in Classic mode, and via Apple's means of notifying users of the update, those who run in classic mode were given a direct download link. Those who don't regualrly use the OS 9 version of Software Update (ie those who are using OS X and Classic instead of OS 9) never got notification to use OS 9's software update to install the CarbonLib update.

      Game, set, and match. Thanks for playing.

    10. Re:Actually, it's only half-fixed... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thanks for the more than one word answer. Really... I was honestly asking the first time. Being new to Mac OS X and Macs in general I wasn't sure if just downloading and installing it while in X would work, since it wasn't showing up in Software Update for X. And I read other places you did have to reboot to 9... I'll take your word for it next time, though.

      They should just have stuff like that show up in Update for X, though, eh?

    11. Re:Actually, it's only half-fixed... by KFury · · Score: 2

      Thanks for the more than one word answer. Really... I was honestly asking the first time.

      Noprob. ;-)

      Yes, it should show up in Update for X. I guess they assumed that folks who would need carbonlib would boot into 9 now and again. That makes a certain amount of sense, because the apps that rely on carbonlib are those that are built to run in both OS X and OS 9. Therefore, any app that would take advantage of carbonlib would only do so if you were running in OS 9 mode as opposed to OS X + Classic.

      Thanks for making me think that through. I hadn't realized that 'till now.

    12. Re:Actually, it's only half-fixed... by KFury · · Score: 1

      Actually, Classic regularly launches OS 9's Software Update on my Cube, every Monday night.

      Oops on me then. Hopefully they'll have an update for Software Update 9 soon...

    13. Re:Actually, it's only half-fixed... by j-beda · · Score: 2
      There are likely to be continual updates/bug fixes to the classic/Mac OS 9 software components. For example there was a recent CarbonLib update.

      It is true that there are no major updates expected as Apple has stated that they are not going to make any, but bug fixes and possibly efficiency updates will likely continue for some time.

  11. they probably had it done anyways... by aveng0 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    the reason it was so quick, was that they had probably included these crypto-features in their new upcoming os release(s)... they could have just done a diff ... but who knows? maybe they are quick! - david

    1. Re:they probably had it done anyways... by JohnsonWax · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Well, considering all the real bits and pieces to solve this problem are in the BSD install anyway, it's really just a matter of gluing the bits together (see the docs on how to verify the checksum on the patch). The data exchange for Software Update is just plain xml, so no breakage when stuffing in the checksum. DiskCopy already has this built in, so that didn't need to be touched either, and it means that Apple already had the checksums for all the .dmg updates handy.

      I think this could easily have been a "Joe, Steve wants a fix for this before you leave today" problem followed up by a week or so of testing and final rollout.

      The OS 9 Software Update is a whole other matter though, since the checksum code isn't just sitting around waiting to be used. It might take a while longer for that to roll out.

      Gee, unix and xml don't suck after all. ;-)

    2. Re:they probably had it done anyways... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Gah. The instructions posted tell you how to verify a simple checksum, but that isn't the new security measure the patch puts in place! Somone sending a malicious update could just as easily send a valid checksum for it!

      The the security measures are for a digital cryptographic signature, ala pgp.

  12. Re:Wow by Peyna · · Score: 2

    What bug-free and/or 100% secure OS's exist? How would ever know if it was 100% secure?

    --
    What?
  13. Impressive. Now if they weren't control freaks. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Troll

    I might buy one. However, since every time I get ready to purchase one I read an article about how they are screwing someone, I'll have to pass (yet again).

    1. Re:Impressive. Now if they weren't control freaks. by Bobartig · · Score: 1

      If you're really that concerned with the politics of your hw, there's really very little related to computers you *COULD* buy. What with scandals abound from M$ and apple, all the lawsuits involved with DRAM mnfr's, shoddy HD's, and optical/removable drives with deplorable MTBF ratings (compared to parts being made 10 years ago), and all the bad mouthing and CSR nightmares in between, it's amazing you found a box to post on today.

      --
      This is where I get my recommended daily allowance of "Foot in Mouth."
  14. And if this was Microsoft by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    people would be screaming about how slow and inefficient they were.

    Hypocrites.

    1. Re:And if this was Microsoft by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But it's not Microsoft, and they'd never get it out this quick. Or if they did, it would be because they knew about it months ago. Microsoft is reactive, not proactive. That's what comes with being big, fat and lazy and owning the world.

      What's your point again?

    2. Re:And if this was Microsoft by feldsteins · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I think you're right. They would be bitching about how slow Microsoft is with the update. But surely you're not suggesting Apple is getting a free ride in the Slashdot forums. Apple takes a hell of a beating here or haven't you noticed that the main discussion here begins with 5 "jokes" at Apple's expense?

      The more daring observation would be:

      "If this were a Linux distro putting out an update they would be praised for how quickly and efficiently they had handled the situation." Or at least they would be instantly forgiven for having taken 5 days.

      --
      You like your Macintosh better than me, don't you Dave? Dave? Can you hear me Dave?
    3. Re:And if this was Microsoft by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Forgive me if I'm wrong, but isn't Microsoft slow and inefficient too?

      Jackass

  15. check the authenticity of this update too by Kevinv · · Score: 5, Informative

    if you want to make sure this update is valid you can read the update info and verify the checksum

    or for the extra paranoid, check the secure page

    1. Re:check the authenticity of this update too by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > if you want to make sure this update is valid you can read the update info and verify the checksum [apple.com]

      > or for the extra paranoid, check the secure page [apple.com]

      DON'T CLICK THOSE LINKS ! DON'T TRUST HIM !

      He forgot to sign his post with its PGP key...

    2. Re:check the authenticity of this update too by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've downloaded the security update two times now, but the checksum provided on the page does not match the file(s).

      Has anyone actually verified the checksum?

    3. Re:check the authenticity of this update too by chrsbrwn · · Score: 1

      The download is a macbinary file... you have to convert it from macbinary (I used stuffit expander) and then the checksums match.

    4. Re:check the authenticity of this update too by fermion · · Score: 3, Insightful
      Is either of these really secure? A checksum is to be used to make sure the download worked, not to make sure the file has not been replaced my malicious code. And can't a secure page and DNS can be forged? A certificate can be checked, but who does?

      Am I wrong?

      --
      "She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
    5. Re:check the authenticity of this update too by Tokerat · · Score: 1

      Yes,a checksum is based on the data in the file. If you change any data in the file you get a different checksum.

      --
      CAn'T CompreHend SARcaSm?
    6. Re:check the authenticity of this update too by muon1183 · · Score: 1

      If you sign an md5 checksum of your code with a private key(this is what code-signing is), you can easily write software that will only install the program if the cryptographically signed checksum sent along with the program matches the md5 of the program when decrypted. In fact, I'm working on a project that uses this very method right now. Of course, this relies on the private key being well protected. In general, the private key should always be on a computer disconnected from all networks. This way, the program has to be manually signed, and can't just be signed by a machine (or a hacker). As long as the client side software is secure, and the private key is kept off the network on the server side, there should not be any problems.

      --

      There's no sig like SIGSEG
    7. Re:check the authenticity of this update too by foniksonik · · Score: 2

      I'm sure they would send you a CD with the update and a password to get in to the encrypted diskimage on the CD, if you just ask... and send a check for $20 (processing/shipping fees).

      --
      A fool throws a stone into a well and a thousand sages can not remove it.
    8. Re:check the authenticity of this update too by thrig · · Score: 5, Informative

      There was also a post to the security-announce list, signed with Apple's Product Security key, which you can verify with a live person if you really feel like it. The post contained the website notes, plus SHA1 checksum of the installer disk image. Given current security technology, Apple covered their bases quite well.

    9. Re:check the authenticity of this update too by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Are you a fool?
      1. A checksum is used to ensure that data has not been altered between the source and the destination. If the checksum of the file you downloaded matches the checksum Apple claims, then you can be 99.9999% sure (even hashes aren't 100% unique) they are the same file.
      2. SSLv3 requires that the certificate be signed by a trusted authority. I don't know of a single browser that won't complain if the certificate is not valid. If the dialog box pops up and says "There is a problem with the certificate" and the user decides to ignore the error, that's the user's own fault.
      3. DNS can be hacked, but extremely difficult for a major site like Apple. And see #2 for why this won't work.
    10. Re:check the authenticity of this update too by Kevinv · · Score: 2

      That's only true if the checksum to be checked is embedded in the file that is downloaded with no independent way of verifying the checksum.

      Since Apple has provided a web page with the checksum listed you can check the signature yourself. They also used the SHA1 method for generating the checksum, which guarantees there can be no other file/message with the same signature.

      If you use Apple's secure page to independently check the checksum the following steps need to take place to present a false update:

      a) DNS spoof Apple.com
      b) Get a forged SSL certificate in apple's name (not impossible, remember someone got a Microsoft certificate not too many months ago)
      c) provide your own update and the signature for that update

      Not an impossible scenario, but not an easy one either.

      Assuming you got a real software update the scenario becomes more difficult by adding a public key signature on the update, so now the private key (assuming they aren't signing them with multiple keys) also needs to be cracked to provide a bogus update.

      The most likely source of a bogus update becomes an insider at Apple using the legitimate software update process to provide a properly signed bogus update.

  16. Good turnaround Apple by PierceLabs · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Apple has been really taking security seriously lately and this only helps to build confidence that the machine is capable of being used by more novice users who know nothing about the evils of being rooted.

    1. Re:Good turnaround Apple by godoto · · Score: 2, Funny

      Apple has been really taking security seriously lately and this only helps to build confidence that the machine is capable of being used by more novice users who know nothing about the evils of being rooted.

      Speak for yourself dude. Personally, I enjoy being rooted-- sometimes several times a day. Remember: it's only naughty if you want it to be.

    2. Re:Good turnaround Apple by dadragon · · Score: 1

      I've always wanted to go to the Australia with all my Roots Canada cloths.

      I'd like to see the looks on people's faces when they see "Canada Roots" on my shirt.

      --
      God save our Queen, and Heaven bless The Maple Leaf Forever!
  17. Re:Wow by rprebel · · Score: 0

    Wow is right. Wow as in 'Wow what a dumb fuck?!'
    Macs are virtually invulnerable to attack, and the reason this made such news is, partially, because Apple rarely has to post any security fixes. It is a secure OS by design. You're just (apparently) too far down the lemming road to see otherwise. One last note: You mentioned you were so impresed you could shit yourself...if your real age is what your mental age seems to be, then you're wearing a diaper right now....so don't worry about it.

    --
    Enjoy every day like it's your last. One day you will be right.
  18. funny X by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    so you think X acts odd?
    look at good old mac os 9 where holding down the mouse button would freeze every process of copying or deleting files.

    so what?

  19. I doubt it's even a problem on os9-think different by Pengo · · Score: 2


    OS9 and OSX are VERY diferent from the ground up. I would be surprised if fundamental security issues that are found in one, exist in the other.

    Cheers

  20. Excellent. by Jack+Va1enti · · Score: 0, Troll

    Now Fritz and I can get them to working on that analog hole.

  21. socially engineered hole... by diablo943 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    what a great way to sneak in a little trojan... spoof apple's own software update function and provide it for everyone under the guise of apple acting swiftly to patch a hole. put it up on a spoofed apple page and even provide a verification checksum to ease any suspician. ah well. would make a good movie twist...

    --
    The line between terrorist and patriot depends on which side of the molatov cocktail you are on.
    1. Re:socially engineered hole... by tbmaddux · · Score: 2
      put it up on a spoofed apple page and even provide a verification checksum to ease any suspician.
      Except that Apple also provides the SHA1 checksum via a secure server.
      --
      Can't you see that everyone is buying station wagons?
    2. Re:socially engineered hole... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And all update packages are "cryptographically signed". I'd like to see the above poster fake a digital sig. Good luck.

      Of course, the next step is the circular argument of crippling the sig verification code. If you can do that then ..... (fill in blanks)

  22. Re:I doubt it's even a problem on os9-think differ by Tom+Rini · · Score: 1

    The problem does indeed exist in OS9, since the problem is, in general terms, getting the user to download and install malicious software, since there's no way of verifying the authenticity of the update.

  23. Right by redwoodtree · · Score: 1

    Speaking from experience, yes, often times a whole bunch of features are developed and then they sit on it. It makes more marketing sense to release things in increments.

    Hard to tell whether this is right or wrong...but at least they released this quickly after the flaw was announced.

  24. check the .dmg not the .pkg by diablo943 · · Score: 1

    Ah. I too encountered the issue that the checksum didn't match... until I realized I was not checking the .dmg, but rather the .pkg. Make sure you are checking the .dmg and everything should match up. Now of course you have to trust that the checksum is authentic...

    --
    The line between terrorist and patriot depends on which side of the molatov cocktail you are on.
    1. Re:check the .dmg not the .pkg by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Heh. I _DID_ check the .dmg.

      I downloaded the file twice on two different computers, but the checksum does not match :(

    2. Re:check the .dmg not the .pkg by ajna · · Score: 1

      -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
      Hash: SHA1

      The checksum matched for me. See my user info page if you want to check my sig, btw.

      -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
      Version: PGPfreeware 7.0.3 for non-commercial use

      iQA/AwUBPTBeFm7jpSWWX3oCEQLfQgCfRw0SElf9XBkQaL9A /L e025CRx0UAmgI0
      8Y8urE5KHVz9x5rjMohkIkvd
      =GD2l
      - ----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

    3. Re:check the .dmg not the .pkg by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually it looks as if slashcode removed a carriage return or two so signing the post was worthless. Oh well, live and learn.

    4. Re:check the .dmg not the .pkg by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you know Mac users half as well as you think you do, you'd realize that we also get very upset when people refer to our desktop pictures as wallpaper.

    5. Re:check the .dmg not the .pkg by Paradise+Pete · · Score: 1
      Apple owners are, by and large, the type of nancy who gets the vapors trying to figure out which end of the screwdriver to use.

      If they're using it on you I suggest the thick end.

  25. How does SU now check signatures? by Alex+Reynolds · · Score: 1

    It's better that SU looks at checksums of incoming packages, I agree.

    But how does it verify the checksums it matches?

    If SU is looking up a list of checksums on a web site somewhere, what stops this attack from happening again?

    Just set up another spoofed web server that dishes out checksums for bogus packages, and SU thinks everything is okay...

    1. Re:How does SU now check signatures? by sjehay · · Score: 2, Insightful

      As I understand it, it's not just using checksums, which I agree could still be open to attack. It's requiring all the packages it installs to be cryptographically signed - i.e. Apple must sign all packages they release with THEIR private key and the Software Update client has a copy of Apple's public key in order to be able to verify the signatures. If the signature can't be verified, it won't install the package - i.e. for a malicious third party to be able to install something on a user's machine via Software Update not only would he have to DNS spoof as before but he would also have to obtain Apple's private key from somewhere, which I would hope/expect is fairly difficult. This is the same practise as RH, Ximian et al. use...

  26. Re:Wow by TellarHK · · Score: 2

    Bah. In my opinion, the most secure OS ever used on most desktops was DOS. :)

  27. Funny by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Slashdot is funny. When Microsoft announces a patch for Windows two days after a security hole is found, they get bashed for publishing insecure software.

    When Apple fixes a hole five days after acknowledging it, they're praised for being so quick to patch it.

    1. Re:Funny by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I agree totally... I came here to post the same thing, but you beat me to it. :P

    2. Re:Funny by Bobartig · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      Well, then the story comes out that they knew about the security hole before the SW reached the shelves, but it was after GM, so they conveniently "obscured" reports of it until a few months later when the release hoopla has died down, and they can release the patch without too much embarrassment.

      On the flip side of things, 5 days really isn't "that" fast, or newsworthy. But what can you do? M$ is the badguy and any publicity is bad, and Apple's the underdog, and any publicity is good.

      --
      This is where I get my recommended daily allowance of "Foot in Mouth."
    3. Re:Funny by jamie · · Score: 5, Insightful
      "When Microsoft announces a patch for Windows two days after a security hole is found, they get bashed for publishing insecure software. When Apple fixes a hole five days after acknowledging it, they're praised for being so quick to patch it."

      The situation is not quite comparable...

      The last n Microsoft security holes that I've seen have been discovered by security groups which reported them privately to Microsoft, and worked with Microsoft for typically a month or two to get the patch out. Then the vulnerability was announced the same day as the patch release. A few days or weeks later, an exploit for the vulnerability was posted someplace reasonably mainstream.

      Not so here. The Apple vulnerability was just posted to bugtraq along with an exploit. No indication was made that any attempt to contact Apple was made, much less working privately with Apple while the problem was resolved.

      http://www.cunap.com/~hardingr/projects/osx/exploi t.html

      http://online.securityfocus.com/archive/1/280964

      Also this wasn't the worst vulnerability ever found. If someone poisons your DNS server they really can do all manner of bad things to you; Software Update is (was) just one of many concerns you should have. Keep your DNS servers secure!

    4. Re:Funny by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You know what else is funny?

      Downloading critical updates from Microsoft
      and having to remove them because your computer crashes every other fucking day.

  28. software update by mrbill · · Score: 2

    Yes, but can we trust the software update to software update? 8-)

    1. Re:software update by jamesoutlaw · · Score: 3, Informative

      They've got a secure download site available.
      From the software update inforrmation:
      "Security Update 7-12-02 delivers a more secure Software Update service to verify that future updates originate from Apple. If you would prefer to download this manually from a secure Apple server you can download the package at http://www.info.apple.com/kbnum/n75304"
      :)

    2. Re:software update by Slur · · Score: 2

      Funny you should ask, because Apple has answered that exact question. On the download page for the update you will find instructions on how to verify the SHA checksum of the installer.

      --
      -- thinkyhead software and media
    3. Re:software update by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah! yeah! And - an- an - what if, what if, what if - Bill Gates hooked his MIND up to the internet, and he watched everything that goes on! An' he had all our passwords an' stuff? ooooooo!

  29. It's a mouthful by robolemon · · Score: 1
    Yeah, but what if they want to add new features and remove bugs and security holes from the software update hole patch?

    Then they'd have to make a "Software Update Security Hole Patch software update/security hole patch".

    --

    I design user interfaces for a free network management application,

  30. my point? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    people are hypocrites.

  31. update via software update by goon+america · · Score: 1
    Yes, you can update software update using software update.

    Here's it's description of the path:
    Security Update 7-12-02 delivers a more secure Software Update service to verify that future updates originate from Apple. If you would prefer to download this manually from a secure Apple server you can download the package at http://www.info.apple.com/kbnum/n75304

  32. Now let's turn the tables. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    ALL that this quasi-"hole" came down to was, "Wow! If you download software updates from apple.com over the internet, you are susceptable to man-in-the-middle attacks!" what a surprise. I mean, it's a VERY GOOD THING apple has plugged this, i'm just saying if they hadn't no one would have really been hurt :)

    Anyway, though, let's just check: how do the other OSes handle this same problem? Someone in another thread claimed that Windows Update used some kind of "SHA-1" hashing, or something. OK. What about the Unix world? How does apt-get validate the checksums of the "new packages" it receives when you run apt-get update? How does "red carpet" do the same? What about the BSD ports system? When you go to www.solaris.com or www.redhat.com or www.kernel.org, and you see on the news page that there's a big new security patch, and you download it, how do you know that that's real and you aren't just looking at something sitting on a compromised router somewhere, masquerading as those sites?

    I am just curious.

    Maybe if the government would stop dicking with everyone and intentionally making it difficult to widely implement ssh and scp (scp is the ftp/ssh thing, right?) on a large scale in software projects such as web browsers, we'd have scp everywhere by now, and web browsers would default to https, and the public keys for ftp.apple.com and ftp.microsoft.com and ftp.debian.org would all be logged in the "trusted public keys" files of those respective OSes by default, and this wouldn't be a problem, becuase netscape and internet explorer would give you big warning signs everywhere when the ftp site you are looking at isn't the one you think it is.. and everyone would be just that much safer from being subject to service interruptions because of social engineering.

    1. Re:Now let's turn the tables. by kyras · · Score: 1

      and web browsers would default to https

      Who wants that? Encrypting everything is usually not the answer. Since usually you don't really care if you're browsing a website securely or not, and https incurs performance-damaging overhead, I would be hesitant to use an https-always browser.

      --
      Tastes like burning! - Ralph Wiggum
    2. Re:Now let's turn the tables. by Papineau · · Score: 3, Interesting

      web browsers would default to https
      The problem lies in that to serve https requests, you need a certificate (logical). Now, if you want your certificate to actually identify you as who you really are, you need to be certified by a certificate authority (CA), which itself is certified by somebody else until a root certificate authority. The process of certification costs money, and doesn't take only a few minutes to complete. So in addition to the performance degradation due to the encrytion (not bad on a small server, but can grow quite fast), you'd be effectively limiting who can operate a web server. Or else, if the server's certificate doesn't go back to a root CA, you wouldn't have a certitude on the identity of the distant server.

      As to how Unix handles the verification problem, the major distributors digitally sign (PGP usually) their packages with their (or one of their) private key. And what happens if the private key is compromised? Same thing as with any private key scheme: you're screwed.

    3. Re:Now let's turn the tables. by inertia187 · · Score: 1

      I wouldn't want to encrypt everything. But I wouldn't mind if everything was cryptographically signed. I mean EVERYTHING. Including email traffic because then spammers could be traced better. Then you could filter on a CA or lack there of.

      Ok, back to reality.

      --
      A programmer is a machine for converting coffee into code.
    4. Re:Now let's turn the tables. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, you are mistaken, encrypting everything is the answer. Everything.

      Sure, theres more overhead, but hey, server technology is coming along nicely and the extra cost is worth it.

      Encrypt everything.

  33. Just checking (Re: Funny) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    Do you ever use telnet? Ever?

    Do you use insecure POP3?

    If either of these things is true, your passwords are flying through unprotected space every time you do either one, and you have no sane reason to complain about apple leaving apple software update with this "hole" for so long. If someone has the ability to exploit the software update "hole" mentioned here, they also have the ability to eavesdrop on all the traffic-- including passwords-- that you create when you do telnet, insecure POP3, or a number of other things.

    I'd say the hypocrisy here is that we're considering it a horrendous hole that an apple network application was susceptable to man-in-the-middle attacks, but we're not, as members of the internet community as a whole, looking for ways that we can implement things such as ssh tunnelling or s/wan on a massive scale so that man-in-the-middle attacks can be wiped out at the root of the problem instead of having to be implemented individually in every single application in the universe.

    1. Re:Just checking (Re: Funny) by djtack · · Score: 1

      Do you ever use telnet? Ever? Do you use insecure POP3?

      I think you underestimate the readership here. For me the answer is never, I haven't used those services for years now. My ISP steadfastly refuses to run a secure IMAP daemon, so I use ssh to build a tunnel to the mail server. There just isn't any excuse for unencrypted network logins these days.

      Still, I agree the risk from this hole was minor. Apple's quick, quiet response is fantastic. It's clear they have their priorities straight with OS X - security and reliability over feature completeness - even though some of the missing features are damned annoying (it drives me crazy that I can't have different sleep settings for battery vs. AC power).

  34. New softwareupdate command by znu · · Score: 4, Informative

    This update also adds the command-line updating tool that comes with Xserve. See 'man softwareupdate'.

    --
    This space unintentionally left unblank.
    1. Re:New softwareupdate command by Fillup · · Score: 1

      This is awesome!

      That's so what I've been waiting for -- like RedHat's up2date that makes it so easy for me to update all our servers. This is going to make the desktop part of my job so much easier.

      --
      "I think there is a world market for, maybe, five computers." __ IBM Chairman, 1943 __
    2. Re:New softwareupdate command by foniksonik · · Score: 2

      Yep, just set up your cron and forget.

      --
      A fool throws a stone into a well and a thousand sages can not remove it.
    3. Re:New softwareupdate command by laserjet · · Score: 3, Funny


      Now, say it with me, everyone!

      "Just set it, and forget it!

      w00t.

      --
      Moon Macrosystems. Sun's biggest competitor.
    4. Re:New softwareupdate command by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      $ softwareupdate
      Software Update Tool
      Copyright 2002 Apple Computer, Inc.

      Your software is up to date.

      $ softwareupdate --help
      softwareupdate: Must be run as root
      Uh, yeah. Running with no args, it says my software is up to date. But want --help? Hah! Gotta be root for that!!
  35. Re:Wow by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    don't you know that the most secure systems are the ones that are _off_?

    Mac OS 9 was pretty secure also. i never said anything about it being stable - but neither did you ;)

  36. mac users have delusions of grandeur by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    and claim riches uncountable and knowledge untold

  37. Re:Wow by Hes+Nikke · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    why is it making me post as AC? i told it to log in and i didn't check the AC box!

    --
    Don't call me back. Give me a call back. Bye. So yeah. But bye our, well, but alright we are on a shirt this chill.
  38. Not Quite by Llywelyn · · Score: 5, Informative

    Yes, so long as the means of communicating the checksum are secure (i.e., not prone to a man-in-the-middle attack).

    Actually checksums have been used for years in order to ensure that a program has not been replaced with a malicious bit of code or modified in any way:

    For instance, you want to make sure you haven't been hacked and ls hasn't been tampered with to hide the files? Have an checksum for it stored offsite and/or in a secure manner (encrypt it with a symmetric key and pray that key hasn't been compromised as well) and then compare with what pops up when you look at the file.

    The idea is that if the file has changed at all, the checksum is going to be different.

    Note though that in order for this to work the means by which you receive the checksum *must* be secure. They can be cleartext (such as in this case), but you must be able to confirm the source of the checksum is who you think it is.

    Thus, it would be a poor way for the software update mechanism to operate (since the attacker could send a false checksum) but is okay for something like this.

    --
    Integrate Keynote and LaTeX
    1. Re:Not Quite by drinkypoo · · Score: 2
      For instance, you want to make sure you haven't been hacked and ls hasn't been tampered with to hide the files? Have an checksum for it stored offsite and/or in a secure manner (encrypt it with a symmetric key and pray that key hasn't been compromised as well) and then compare with what pops up when you look at the file.

      If you can prevent physical access to your machine (if you can't you're sunk anyway, period) then it's generally sufficient to have your checksum list stored on a floppy which is not write-enabled.

      Storing it offsite but online doesn't help; storing it offsite and not online makes it unusefully unwieldy.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  39. Not a solution, just requires a different attack by gerardrj · · Score: 3, Interesting
    So now the packages are signed with some sort of checksum, like PGP or GPG or MD5. But the whole verification process is automated. So the installer now goes and gets the checksum from an Apple server.

    A hacker now just has to do some more work. Instead of just the DNS misdirection, they now need to create a checksum for their bad/malicious code. The updater will query their fake update server for the now forged checksum and see it matches the fake update package that was retrieved from the same hacked up server.

    Even if they automatically get the checkum from a specific IP or set of IPs, all one has to do is create a server with that IP and insert it in the network and get a few routers to change their IP routing tables.

    If they use a third party to verify the downloaded checksum is authentic, that server itself is vulnerable to the DNS and IP routing 'man in the middle' attacks.

    This just makes the haker's job a little more complex. But if they have privs to alter DNS on a server this is just two minutes extra work. This whole thing is just silly. The initial problem was a non-problem. The solution doesn't provide any substantial obsticle to someone that wants to perpetrate such an attack. There in fact is no solution other than a 1-1 split key system. I generate a public key one time and send it to Apple. They then use that key to encrypt/sign all the updates sent to me. I use the private key to verify/decrypt the update and install it. I know that only Apple has my public key so I can be safe.

    The problem here of course is that Apple needs to store potentially millions of public keys on their servers, and use a lot of CPU to do the unique signing/encrypting as people request the updates.

    The split key eliminates the man in the middle, as they have no way to get ahold of each user's public key. They can't fake one, and no amount of DNS or IP redirection (other than the initial sending of the public key) will allow them to masquerade as the authentic site.

    --
    Article X: The powers not delegated... by the Constitution...are reserved...to the people
  40. Re:Not a solution, just requires a different attac by gfilion · · Score: 3, Insightful

    A hacker now just has to do some more work. Instead of just the DNS misdirection, they now need to create a checksum for their bad/malicious code. The updater will query their fake update server for the now forged checksum and see it matches the fake update package that was retrieved from the same hacked up server.

    Ever heared about public key cryptography? They sign their packages with their private key, and their public key is hard coded in the software. It's not just a checksum, it's a cryptographically signed checksum. It's pretty safe.

    To sign a checksum for his bad code, the attacker needs to crack Apple's private key. Which can take a few weeks if you're the NSA, but a few hundreds years if you're anyone else.

  41. Other Problems with Software Update by namespan · · Score: 3, Interesting

    1) If you download a package, and for some reason, it doesn't install right off (any kind of error, or even if you're just not ready yet), Software Update FORGETS IT HAS DOWNLOADED IT. This is particularly frustrating when you have just downloaded an 18 MB package over your modem, and you have to do it again.

    2) If you download part of a package, of course, it doesn't use any kind of smart downloading process to pick up where it left off. Arg.

    3) What is this with everything requiring 300 MB to install 20 MB pieces of software? Sure, that's sneezing space for those of you with 40 GB drives, but some of us are still running mere 5 Gig machines.

    --
    Libertarianism is rich wolves and poor sheep playing gambler's ruin for dinner.
    1. Re:Other Problems with Software Update by gerardrj · · Score: 3, Informative
      The resume on failure is a problem
      You can find all the successfully downloaded updates in "/Library/Receipts". You can double-click the packages in there to install the update, copy the update to another machine and install it, burn it to CD for later use, etc.

      On the down side, Apple doesn't seem to advertise they they store all the update packages there, so some people can't figure out where all the HD space is going.

      --
      Article X: The powers not delegated... by the Constitution...are reserved...to the people
    2. Re:Other Problems with Software Update by Espen · · Score: 1

      What you find in /Library/Receipts are just that, receipts, not the whole package. If you want to keep a whole package you have to save it from the Software Update program just after it has finished the install, otherwise it gets deleted.

    3. Re:Other Problems with Software Update by mithras+the+prophet · · Score: 3, Informative

      actually the packages in /Library/Receipts contain everything except for the actual payload. That is, they have the Readme, install information, file list, etc., but not the actual files. That's why they're called "Receipts".

      For example, the very large (400MB+) developer tools package has a receipt of size 616k.

      In order to save the package to install later or on other machines, you have to select Update:Save Update before you click the "Install" button in Software Update.

      --
      four nine eighteen twenty-7 thirty-nine forty-7 fiftyeight sixty-nine seventy-9 eighty-8 one-hundred-and-nine one-twenty
    4. Re:Other Problems with Software Update by gerardrj · · Score: 3, Funny
      That's the last (and first) time I repeat anything Leo Laporte says without verifying if first. He offered this as a "Mac tip" on the Screen Savers back in May. I've never had a reason to check it out other than seeing that the files where there, and I didn't have "calculate all file sizes" on in the folder. That guy is just a moronic windbag.

      --
      Article X: The powers not delegated... by the Constitution...are reserved...to the people
    5. Re:Other Problems with Software Update by pweent · · Score: 1

      /Library/Receipts does not contain the updates - it contains, as the name suggests, receipts for the updates. These receipts contain the bill of materials (.bom) for the package and various other components of the update. They lack one crucial bit of the actual update package, however - they do not have the compressed archive of the new files! Essentially, it's all the package metadata stripped of its data.

      The receipts folder is not really "where all the HD space is going". On my system it totals 32 MB for all the 10.1 updates, language packages, dev tools, etc. I'll tell you what's REALLY to blame - did you know there's a directory called "usr" on your disk that you can't even SEE? It's using up almost 240 MB on my disk! Of all the nerve....

    6. Re:Other Problems with Software Update by namespan · · Score: 2

      Thank you!

      Also, just noted while perusing my "Library" directory that there's a directory called "Caches" and within that directory, a directory known as "Software Update Cache".... would this be where things were kept?

      --
      Libertarianism is rich wolves and poor sheep playing gambler's ruin for dinner.
    7. Re:Other Problems with Software Update by d0n+quix0te · · Score: 2

      Actually downloaded Software Update files are stored in /tmp/501 That way you don't have a large file sitting around and gobbling disk space...

    8. Re:Other Problems with Software Update by mbbac · · Score: 1

      There is a save feature in the menubar for Software Update.

      --

      mbbac

  42. Re: 300MB by Slur · · Score: 2

    The "Installer" application has a bug in which it miscalculates the space required for an update or install. It's a silly bug, but since most new Macs have a hard drive of 30GB or more even 300MB is hardly anything.

    --
    -- thinkyhead software and media
  43. Re:Not a solution, just requires a different attac by gerardrj · · Score: 2
    The solution where there is one private key used to sign, and they give out the public key has a few issues:
    For someone to steal a single private key is rather trivial. Getting enough CPU together to brute force the private key is relatively simple, especially for a hacker that has compromised many systems and can easily install a distributed key generator on all of them. As was seen by several recent worms/viruses it would be possible to install such a client of literally tens of thousands of systems. Since you can have both encrypted and decrypted versions of the protected information, checking for a good key is easy.

    If, in my method, a hacker was to get hold of a public key or two (or a hundred), only a few people or sites would be affected. All the other keys would not be compromised. The risk of wide-spread corruption is almost nil. A hacker would need to get the account information and the account's encrypting key before a successful redirection would work and install the modified code.

    Apple already has the infrastructure of the iTools system for storing the private keys for each site/user/system and for the authentication for updates. The only thing that would remain is to be sure they have enough CPU power to to on-the-fly signing for each request. This is the scenareo I see: Create a public/private key pair using an Apple supplied utility (or GPG) Log in to iTools and send them the public key (using SSL) later: SWU queries Apple for any new packages If packages are available, SWU sends the iTools account info (using SSL) Apple retrieves your public key and uses it to sign the appropriate packages SWU retrieves the signed packages and verfies them against your local private key If they pass muster the packages are installed. Many people will say the single signer model is safe enough. That may be true, but don't for a moment think that it actually eliminates the risk of wide-spread distribution of fake updates. The multiple signers model does.

    --
    Article X: The powers not delegated... by the Constitution...are reserved...to the people
  44. hmmm by owenc · · Score: 4, Funny

    doesn't seem to be compatible with the 10.1.3.1337 update that came out yesterday :(. in fact, all my programs don't launch anymore. not even aol.

    1. Re:hmmm by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I am pretty sure you're kidding, right? ;)

      Just wanted you to know that someone got your joke.

    2. Re:hmmm by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      i think he does...

  45. Re:Not a solution, just requires a different attac by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful
    For someone to steal a single private key is rather trivial. Getting enough CPU together to brute force the private key is relatively simple, especially for a hacker that has compromised many systems and can easily install a distributed key generator on all of them. As was seen by several recent worms/viruses it would be possible to install such a client of literally tens of thousands of systems. Since you can have both encrypted and decrypted versions of the protected information, checking for a good key is easy.

    You mean lets say they took over distributed.net and had around 28,149 (or more, since this was the active number of participants in rc5-64 yesterday, who could have multiple machines) machines trying to crack said keys. Lets see, they have been working on rc5-64 for 5 years now... Putting in some estimation for moore's law, lets say it would take 2 years starting now. So lets get it done in a 3 months period then we need 8 times as many machines. That means at least 160,000 compromised machines all contacting unknown network addresses over three months. If that is not noticed, that is one hell of a hacker. And thats assuming that Apple used something with an outdated keyspace thats only about as large as rc5-64.

    In other words, yeah, it might not be the safest option out there. But its safe enough for me.

  46. Re:Not a solution, just requires a different attac by Dahan · · Score: 1
    Getting enough CPU together to brute force the private key is relatively simple, especially for a hacker that has compromised many systems and can easily install a distributed key generator on all of them.

    I think you underestimate the difficulty of brute-forcing RSA-style keys... RSA-129 (which is about 426 bits long) took 1600 computers 8 months to factor back in 1994. That was the part that could be distributed over multiple machines. Then it took a supercomputer with 16384 processors 45 hours to solve the 4GB matrix that came out of the distributed part of the process.

    It's not gonna be a piece of cake to crack the 1024 bits keys that are the minimum people use these days, even if you do have tens of thousands of machines to do the distributed part. And after you're done with that, where are you gonna get a computer that can solve a multi-gigabyte matrix in a reasonable amount of time?

  47. Linux is Funnier by feldsteins · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The real truth of the matter is that it's not Apple who gets a free ride here at Slashdot - it's Linux. Usually when a Linux distro is patched/updated the story on the front page ( and it's always on the front page) usually includes the word "drool" and at least one exclamation point. Apple takes their lumps here same as Microsoft. Worse in many ways because more than half the people here are at least dual-booting a MS OS. Almost none are using an Apple one. But when do the Linux guys get criticised here? About anything?

    And just for the record.

    --
    You like your Macintosh better than me, don't you Dave? Dave? Can you hear me Dave?
    1. Re:Linux is Funnier by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      MS deserves it.

  48. Re:Not a solution, just requires a different attac by gerardrj · · Score: 2
    I know ciphers are hard to break. But they are not impossible to break, and certainly not difficult to steal. If (when?) the Apple encrypting key is compromised, potentially the entire Apple community would be affected. Apple could almost totally eliminate that risk with the multiple/unique signing keys method. If they want to fix the problem they should really fix it with something that addresses the 'worst case' scenareo.

    --
    Article X: The powers not delegated... by the Constitution...are reserved...to the people
  49. HOWTO report security problems to Apple by aelvin · · Score: 3, Informative

    If you need to report a security problem to Apple, there are instructions on the Apple Product Security page.

    It boils to an email to product-security@apple.com. Encrypt sensitive information using Apple's product security PGP key, key ID 0x44E85F68, fingerprint AE43 8996 9250 78A6 D587 3CA8 2165 60D7 44E8 5F68.

    Although PGP for Mac OS X is sadly still in suspended animation, others have mentioned the availability of MacGPG and related tools, which are perfectly suitable for PGP, including rudimentary integration with Mail.app.

    1. Re:HOWTO report security problems to Apple by foo12 · · Score: 1

      There's also a GPG plugin for Apple's Mail.app. It's a bit limited, but it's free (as in speech) and an active project. Additionally, there's GNUMail a clone of Mail.app with better, built-in GPG support

  50. software update CLI tool by flamingnight · · Score: 3, Informative

    Well, softare update is now available from the CLI:
    Welcome to Darwin!
    [jupiter:~] root# softwareupdate
    Software Update Tool
    Copyright 2002 Apple Computer, Inc.

    Your software is up to date.

    [jupiter:~] root#
    Also, the man page for software update says you can install (a) specific update(s) by name, by softwareupdate [item ...]
    Interestingly, it must be run as root, though Software Update via System Preferences only requires an Administrator's password -- this could just be because it sudo's, as an admin *can* sudo... Also, it was written (the CLI tool, or at least the man page) on May 2, 2002.

    1. Re:software update CLI tool by j-beda · · Score: 2
      Man this is going to make my job keeping client machines up to date a lot easier!

      SOFTWAREUPDATE(8) System Manager's Manual SOFTWAREUPDATE(8)

      NAME
      softwareupdate - system software update tool

      SYNOPSIS
      softwareupdate [item ...]

      DESCRIPTION
      Software Update checks for new and updated versions of your software based on information about your computer and current software.

      If you give no arguments, a list of available software updates is determined and displayed. Each entry includes the item name, description, version, and size.

      For each item name you give, the corresponding software update is downloaded, unarchived, and installed.

      softwareupdate must be run as root.
      ...

  51. Re:Wow by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The only "OS" where you could get a virus by leaving a floppy in the drive...

  52. softwareupdate by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    One cool new thing in the Software Update Security Update... it adds a file to /usr/sbin/ called softwareupdate. Looks like darwin users may soon be able to keep upt odate as well

  53. Apple vs. Linux by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    An example (maybe a bit exaggerated):

    Several bugs have been found in some versions of Linux and one in BSD:

    Linux: Day one: New patch fix for kernel blah.blah released.
    Day one cont.: Another patch released
    Day three: Two more patches released; Everything fixed.

    Major press releases: A few.
    People's general response: Yay what's new.

    Mac: Day one: Nothing
    Day two: Nothing ...
    Day five: Patch released within 5 days omfg!!!

    Media coverage: Everybody and thier dog knows (esp. thanks to /.)
    People's general (and much intended by the media) response: omg Apple rulez compared to microsoft i'm so glad apple exists otherwise i'd have viruses etc. blah blah terrorists could blah blah blah.........

    Is it just me or does anybody think that a proprietary OS is a proprietary OS is a proprietary OS is a proprietary OS.......... How is apple any better than microsoft? Ok, maybe more deceptive and subtle, i'll give you that...

  54. Which is useless. by Inoshiro · · Score: 2

    Anyone who can put a trojan on the site can also put a bumb SHA1 on it. Why doesn't Apple use PKI?

    --
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    Internet Explorer (n): Another bug -- that is, a feature that can't be turned off -- in Windows.
    1. Re:Which is useless. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >Anyone who can put a trojan on the site

      and how fucking easy do you think that is, retard?

    2. Re:Which is useless. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The checksum is on a secure server :)

  55. Note by theolein · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I appreciate, even though it is probably coincidental, that Apple did NOT attack the press for reporting this hole before they had a chance to plug it. It has been a reasonably quick, mature response. Unlike another company that we all know that seems incapable of fixing holes without having a go at all "enemies" on the side.

  56. Congratulations. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Your pocked must be saturated with urine. Well done. I suppose you want us to notice that you're not a hypocrite, and I suppose you're trying to extract attention and accolades for your superior moral stance. Well, once again, congratulations. You're our hero. foad kthx.

    at any rate, the reason for microsoft getting panned for issuing a patch two days after the vuln is "reported" is because THEY SIT ON THE FUCKING VULN REPORTS FOR WEEKS, RETARD. They only leak the vuln as soon as their patch is ready, which is weeks after THEY'RE TOLD ABOUT IT.

  57. Re:Not a solution, just requires a different attac by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    not impossible, if you're the nsa (or can they?), or can throw millions of teraflops at the job (this equates to being able to throw billions in cash btw). other than that it is impossible, not even mass distributed computing will do it before the key in question expires (bear in mind that apple has their keys expiring after a year).

  58. Re:funny XP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Had to remove critical updates to keep XP from locking up on me.

  59. Good to see a relatively quick response... by Junta · · Score: 2

    However, I would have thought that would be standard practice in this day and age, most everything else done by major companies has some sort of cryptographic signature in this sort of context...

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    XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
  60. Re:Not a solution, just requires a different attac by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You're seperate-key-for-everyone idea is fucking retarded. Even if apple had everyone's public keys and encrypted it to them, so they could download and decrypt it, they'd still need to sign it with their private key. Encryption isn't the issue; it's the signature verification that matters. Even if everyone (stupidly) had to send public keys to apple, apple would still need a master private key to sign with, and they'd still need the corresponding pubkey to be distributed with softwareupdate.

    It isn't hard to use 4096bit keys (not sure if they do), but even smaller sizes are still practically impossible to break. REgardless of NSA technology, simple physics keeps them from brute forcing keys. The energy it would take to flip that many bits is astronomical.

    Apple could easily guard the secret key by keeping it (a) well backed up in safe offline locations and (b) keeping the copy they use on an offline machine, and manually transfering the data to be signed on and off using physical media. Extreme, but secure.

    You either don't "get" the concept of signing, or your trolling. In either case, fuck off, mate.

  61. Re:Not a solution, just requires a different attac by ryochiji · · Score: 1
    > I know ciphers are hard to break. But they are not impossible to break

    While this is a valid point, I doubt it poses a plausible threat in this particular case, primarily because public key encryption is so widely used. If anyone wanted to spend enormous amounts of resources to crack such keys, the chances are, they won't be going after Apple's Software Update servers and it's relatively small number of clients.

    The same has been seen with viruses. It's not necessary that viruses and worms are more difficult to write for Macs (although thay may be the case), but a simple matter of economics. Why write a virus that would, at most, infect 2-4% of the world's computers when, for the same (or less) effort, 90% of the world's computers can be targetted?

  62. Re:Not a solution, just requires a different attac by gerardrj · · Score: 2

    Good point. But that could also be said about the initial 'problem'. If someone where going to do a MiM attack via DNS spoof, why would they target Apple and not Microsoft, or Adobe or Id(or whoever makes the latest game).

    I think the problem with your statement though is that it qualifies as security by obscurity. Claiming relative safety because of a relatively small size is just bad voodoo.

    As for the cracking issue, I'm be far less worried about someone cracking the cipher than I am someone emailing it out of the building, or someone hacking in and downloading it.

    --
    Article X: The powers not delegated... by the Constitution...are reserved...to the people
  63. Re:Gee... by newestbob · · Score: 1

    SUCK MY DICK you macintosh faggots who can't bear the truth!

  64. Re:Not a solution, just requires a different attac by jonadab · · Score: 1

    > Ever heared about public key cryptography?

    This raises an interesting point (though one that goes a
    bit off topic for the Apple update): What happens when
    some math grad student discovers a generalised way to
    determine a private key given the corresponding public
    key? Just something to think about.

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    Cut that out, or I will ship you to Norilsk in a box.
  65. Re:Not a solution, just requires a different attac by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    We can all throw out our frequent-flyer cards and starting riding pigs transcontinentally...

  66. Re:Is Your Son a Computer Hacker? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Sir,
    I see your intentions are correct ... but many of your facts are sadly misinformed. I will list them below.

    First of all, lets resolve what it means to be a "hacker". A hacker is someone who writes software and messes with new technologies and likes to figure things out. Now, that being said, there are "bad" hackers that wish to use such skills in malicious ways. I assume these are the people you are talking about, normally called "Crackers".

    1) Changing ISPs. It is true that AOL has many "kid safe" features, but these are truly a joke to anyone who is interested in being a cracker. Further, there are many reasons to use another ISP: cost, speed of access, busy signals, crappy front end software (such as AOL).

    2) Comet Cursor, Bonzi Buddy, and Flash ARE NOT hacking programs ... they are stupid entertainment programs. Maybe you should go to the product maker's website and look at what they are. One program used for hacking is SoftICE (really a debugging software ...but hey, we all know what it's used for.).

    3) Asking for new hardware ... this is usually to play games and nothing else. And I have NO idea where you get your AMD info! AMD is the major competitor of Intel ... and for your info, the Compaq you bought uses AMD.

    4) Some of the "hacking manuals" you mentioned are FAR from it. Most notably, "Programming in Perl" is one of the best books on perl programming there is ... but you probably don't know what perl is.
    "The Cathedral and the Bazaar" is one of the best essays out there on the meaning of open source software ... you obviously didn't read it.

    5) This is the first sign that you might actually have right. However, if your child is really interested in learning about computers and programming, he may spend a lot of time here too.

    6) Quake is a GAME! It is not a hacker hangout. Please look into the softwares you post about before making totaly false cliams ... you should be more interested in him looking at IRC chats in the underworld and such.

    7) Is your son becoming argumentative and surly in his social behaviour? Hmm... sounds like a typical teenager.

    8) Is your son obsessed with "Lunix"?

    "BSD, Lunix, Debian and Mandrake are all versions of an illegal hacker operation system, invented by a Soviet computer hacker named Linyos Torovoltos." .. are you TOTALLY NUTS??? HAVE YOU READ THE FIRST THING ABOUT LINUX??? It is an open source operating system that allows computer software writers to do real work. Much scientific work is done on linux clusters. Also ecommerce, B2B, database management, .. the list goes on. Linux can be used to do bad things, as any operating system can (such as Windows). But Linux is a GREAT way to learn how a computer works.

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    Apple Plugs Software Update Hole | Log in/Create an Account | Top | 178 comments | Search Discussion
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    The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way.
    Is Your Son a Computer Hacker? (Score:-1, Offtopic)
    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 13, @12:15PM (#3877446)
    As an enlightened, modern parent, I try to be as involved as possible in the lives of my six children. I encourage them to join team sports. I attend their teen parties with them to ensure no drinking or alcohol is on the premises. I keep a fatherly eye on the CDs they listen to and the shows they watch, the company they keep and the books they read. You could say I'm a model parent. My children have never failed to make me proud, and I can say without the slightest embellishment that I have the finest family in the USA.

    Two years ago, my wife Carol and I decided that our children's education would not be complete without some grounding in modern computers. To this end, we bought our children a brand new Compaq to learn with. The kids had a lot of fun using the handful of application programs we'd bought, such as Adobe's Photoshop and Microsoft's Word, and my wife and I were pleased that our gift was received so well. Our son Peter was most entranced by the device, and became quite a pro at surfing the net. When Peter began to spend whole days on the machine, I became concerned, but Carol advised me to calm down, and that it was only a passing phase. I was content to bow to her experience as a mother, until our youngest daughter, Cindy, charged into the living room one night to blurt out: "Peter is a computer hacker!"

    As you can imagine, I was amazed. A computer hacker in my own house! I began to monitor my son's habits, to make certain that Cindy wasn't just telling stories, as she is prone to doing at times.

    After a few days of investigation, and some research into computer hacking, I confronted Peter with the evidence. I'm afraid to say, this was the only time I have ever been truly disappointed in one of my children. We raised them to be honest and to have integrity, and Peter betrayed the principles we tried to encourage in him, when he refused point blank to admit to his activities. His denials continued for hours, and in the end, I was left with no choice but to ban him from using the computer until he is old enough to be responsible for his actions.

    After going through this ordeal with my own family, I was left pondering how I could best help others in similar situations. I'd gained a lot of knowledge over those few days regarding hackers. It's only right that I provide that information to other parents, in the hope that they will be able to tell if their children are being drawn into the world of hacking. Perhaps other parents will be able to steer their sons back onto the straight and narrow before extreme measures need to be employed.

    To this end, I have decided to publish the top ten signs that your son is a hacker. I advise any parents to read this list carefully and if their son matches the profile, they should take action. A smart parent will first try to reason with their son, before resorting to groundings, or even spanking. I pride myself that I have never had to spank a child, and I hope this guide will help other parents to put a halt to their son's misbehaviour before a spanking becomes necessary.

    1. Has your son asked you to change ISPs?

    Most American families use trusted and responsible Internet Service Providers, such as AOL. These providers have a strict "No Hacking" policy, and take careful measures to ensure that your internet experience is enjoyable, educational and above all legal. If your child is becoming a hacker, one of his first steps will be to request a change to a more hacker friendly provider.

    I would advise all parents to refuse this request. One of the reasons your son is interested in switching providers is to get away from AOL's child safety filter. This filter is vital to any parent who wants his son to enjoy the internet without the endangering him through exposure to "adult" content. It is best to stick with the protection AOL provides, rather than using a home-based solution. If your son is becoming a hacker, he will be able to circumvent any home-based measures with surprising ease, using information gleaned from various hacker sites.

    2. Are you finding programs on your computer that you don't remember installing?

    Your son will probably try to install some hacker software. He may attempt to conceal the presence of the software in some way, but you can usually find any new programs by reading through the programs listed under "Install/Remove Programs" in your control panel. Popular hacker software includes "Comet Cursor", "Bonzi Buddy" and "Flash".

    The best option is to confront your son with the evidence, and force him to remove the offending programs. He will probably try to install the software again, but you will be able to tell that this is happening, if your machine offers to "download" one of the hacker applications. If this happens, it is time to give your son a stern talking to, and possibly consider punishing him with a grounding.

    3. Has your child asked for new hardware?

    Computer hackers are often limited by conventional computer hardware. They may request "faster" video cards, and larger hard drives, or even more memory. If your son starts requesting these devices, it is possible that he has a legitimate need. You can best ensure that you are buying legal, trustworthy hardware by only buying replacement parts from your computer's manufacturer.

    If your son has requested a new "processor" from a company called "AMD", this is genuine cause for alarm. AMD is a third-world based company who make inferior, "knock-off" copies of American processor chips. They use child labor extensively in their third world sweatshops, and they deliberately disable the security features that American processor makers, such as Intel, use to prevent hacking. AMD chips are never sold in stores, and you will most likely be told that you have to order them from internet sites. Do not buy this chip! This is one request that you must refuse your son, if you are to have any hope of raising him well.

    4. Does your child read hacking manuals?

    If you pay close attention to your son's reading habits, as I do, you will be able to determine a great deal about his opinions and hobbies. Children are at their most impressionable in the teenage years. Any father who has had a seventeen year old daughter attempt to sneak out on a date wearing make up and perfume is well aware of the effect that improper influences can have on inexperienced minds.

    There are, unfortunately, many hacking manuals available in bookshops today. A few titles to be on the lookout for are: "Snow Crash" and "Cryptonomicon" by Neal Stephenson; "Neuromancer" by William Gibson; "Programming with Perl" by Timothy O'Reilly; "Geeks" by Jon Katz; "The Hacker Crackdown" by Bruce Sterling; "Microserfs" by Douglas Coupland; "Hackers" by Steven Levy; and "The Cathedral and the Bazaar" by Eric S. Raymond.

    If you find any of these hacking manuals in your child's possession, confiscate them immediately. You should also petition local booksellers to remove these titles from their shelves. You may meet with some resistance at first, but even booksellers have to bow to community pressure.

    5. How much time does your child spend using the computer each day?

    If your son spends more than thirty minutes each day on the computer, he may be using it to DOS other peoples sites. DOSing involves gaining access to the "command prompt" on other people's machines, and using it to tie up vital internet services. This can take up to eight hours. If your son is doing this, he is breaking the law, and you should stop him immediately. The safest policy is to limit your children's access to the computer to a maximum of forty-five minutes each day.

    6. Does your son use Quake?

    Quake is an online virtual reality used by hackers. It is a popular meeting place and training ground, where they discuss hacking and train in the use of various firearms. Many hackers develop anti-social tendencies due to the use of this virtual world, and it may cause erratic behaviour at home and at school.

    If your son is using Quake, you should make hime understand that this is not acceptable to you. You should ensure all the firearms in your house are carefully locked away, and have trigger locks installed. You should also bring your concerns to the attention of his school.

    7. Is your son becoming argumentative and surly in his social behaviour?

    As a child enters the electronic world of hacking, he may become disaffected with the real world. He may lose the ability to control his actions, or judge the rightness or wrongness of a course of behaviour. This will manifest itself soonest in the way he treats others. Those whom he disagrees with will be met with scorn, bitterness, and even foul language. He may utter threats of violence of a real or electronic nature.

    Even when confronted, your son will probably find it difficult to talk about this problem to you. He will probably claim that there is no problem, and that you are imagining things. He may tell you that it is you who has the problem, and you should "back off" and "stop smothering him." Do not allow yourself to be deceived. You are the only chance your son has, even if he doesn't understand the situation he is in. Keep trying to get through to him, no matter how much he retreats into himself.

    8. Is your son obsessed with "Lunix"?

    BSD, Lunix, Debian and Mandrake are all versions of an illegal hacker operation system, invented by a Soviet computer hacker named Linyos Torovoltos, before the Russians lost the Cold War. It is based on a program called "xenix", which was written by Microsoft for the US government. These programs are used by hackers to break into other people's computer systems to steal credit card numbers. They may also be used to break into people's stereos to steal their music, using the "mp3" program. Torovoltos is a notorious hacker, responsible for writing many hacker programs, such as "telnet", which is used by hackers to connect to machines on the internet without using a telephone.

    Your son may try to install "lunix" on your hard drive. If he is careful, you may not notice its presence, however, lunix is a capricious beast, and if handled incorrectly, your son may damage your computer, and even break it completely by deleting Windows, at which point you will have to have your computer repaired by a professional.

    If you see the word "LILO" during your windows startup (just after you turn the machine on), your son has installed lunix. In order to get rid of it, you will have to send your computer back to the manufacturer, and have them fit a new hard drive. Lunix is extremely dangerous software, and cannot be removed without destroying part of your hard disk surface.

    9. "Has your son radically changed his appearance?" This may be a problem ... it may not be. You'll have to look at this on a case by case basis. But, surely "hacking" is not the major cause of this.

    10. Is your son struggling academically?
    See number nine above. Most likely not because of hacking .... but could be because of using the computer too much. " In extreme cases, over-exposure to computer radiation can cause schizophrenia, meningitis and other psychological diseases." ... This is HILARIOUS ... what are your sources.