Microsoft vs. Apple's "Thunder"

jaymzter writes "Cnet has an interesting article on Microsoft's attempt to steal the thunder from the upcoming Macworld show, and also to slap Apple down for not showing enough gratitude. What's really interesting, is that Microsoft supposedly helped Apple 'fix' Mac OS X, and that Microsoft doesn't think Apple is pushing Mac OS X hard enough. Oh, the tangled webs we weave." Strange story. Basically its a battle of PR.

Comments

PR vs. Manipulation

[intermodal]

PR is relations with the public. Manipulation is when something is falsely influenced or pushed. This is manipulation. Making OSX seem strong makes Microsoft look less like a monopoly, without actually having to take on the real competition publicly (read real competition as "BSD, Linux, (and maybe OpenBeOS someday)") which would make the public actually aware of these options.

Re:PR vs. Manipulation

[gwernol]

Making OSX seem strong makes Microsoft look less like a monopoly, without actually having to take on the real competition publicly (read real competition as "BSD, Linux, (and maybe OpenBeOS someday)") which would make the public actually aware of these options.

What makes you think Mac OS X isn't "real competition" for Microsoft? If Apple is successful with its stated aim of moving from 5% to 10% market share it will gain those extra users mainly from Microsoft. This looks like real competition to me. It would be good to see more competition in the OS marketplace but OS X looks like the real thing to me.

Love this quote ...

[SirSlud]

> "What does $150 million buy you? It doesn't buy you eternal gratitude."

Shit, thats a great quote. Especially considering MS poured the money in for purely (mostly, whatever) selfish reasons - we can assume the DOJ trial would look much different today had MS not participated in the 'wonton act of goodwill for which Apple should have eternal gratitude'. ;)

Re:Love this quote ...

[jafac]

The patent dispute was over code Microsoft stole from Apple from Quicktime that somehow ended up, comments and all, in WMP.

They payout was rumored to have been in the neighborhood of an additional 600+ million.

Ironic when you later hear that Microsoft had asked Apple to "knife the baby". They steal the code, and then tell the company they stole the code from to kill their own product. Then they make a huge costly effort to go out to all major video serving sites on the net (CNN being a prime example) and GIVE them hardware, and free streaming server software, in order to beg them to serve WMP content instead of Quicktime. (CNN used to be a MAJOR bastion of Quicktime).

Seems nobody at Microsoft has ever thought about competing on merit.

Catch-22

[mcwetboy]

1. Apple doesn't promote Mac OS X enough. Fewer people shift to the platform than Microsoft would like. Microsoft Office for OS X doesn't sell as many copies as they wanted. Microsoft is pissed.
2. Apple puts considerable effort into the next version of OS X, code-named Jaguar. New features are added that make competition-obsessed Microsoft nervous. Microsoft is pissed.

Microsoft is pissed if Apple doesn't promote OS X enough. Microsoft is pissed if Apple develops OS X too much or advertises the platform too aggressively. (And what flavour of nuts will Microsoft go if Apple launches an OS-specific ad campaign?) Apple can't win, so they have nothing to lose.

Re:Catch-22

[ivan256]

I think it's more likely that Microsoft is trying to get Apple to divert it's marketing budget away from the current compaign encouraging users to ditch windows, and instead spend those advertising dollars to get the existing apple user base to upgrade to MacOS X. I'm sure that they're selling more then enough copies (1.2 millon in the first 6 months, did it say?) to justify having developed Office X, but what they really want is for Apple to stop going after their core business.

Gratitude

[john82]

Give me a freakin' break!

Gratitude, uh sure, got it right here on the end of my middle finger. Let's see, MS has repeatedly fscked Apple at every turn, stolen code from Apple, and used strong arm tactics to get their way. Does anyone out there think that $150M loan deal to Apple (which was a big profit for MS) did anything more than buy time for MS by propping up Apple? And we should believe that MS knows more about OSX than Apple? Pardon me while I gag on that nonsense. OSX comes out of the NextStep OS, BSD, and other Apple developed code. Where the heck was MS in any of that?

Ultimate gratitude: MS ought to be kissing Apple's ass for keeping the Feds off of them this long. Were it not for Apple's meager sales, the anti-trust case against MS would have been a done deal long ago.

Switch

[weefle]

Well, I can see how Microsoft might be getting a little anxious, what with Apple pushing hard for people to switch from Windows to a Mac, coming out with a 17" version of the LCD iMac, making Mac OS users' default homepages Netscape instead of Microsoft pages, and designing iChat to use AIM and not MSN.

As for Microsoft's opinion that Apple isn't pushing Mac OS X hard enough? Well, that just sounds like a software company's opinion of a hardware company. Apple's shipping machines with Mac OS X as the default OS and has made plenty of announcements about the sunsetting of Classic Mac OS. Apple's money comes from selling machines, so that's all they need to do.

And how does Microsoft intend to "steal Apple's thunder?" By simply by making announcements of its own versions of what Apple has been doing with tremendous success for years. Movie trailers will continue to be in QuickTime format, MPEG-4 is still QuickTime, and Apple will continue to sell 802.11b harware in addition to their robust and easy-to-use software.

If Bill thinks he's going to lead the game, he'd better try to get out in front on a thing or two.

Are we bitter about something?

[Infonaut]

"FUD? Is that anything like the Apple switch commercials?"

Hmm.. maybe to you real people talking about their experiences with PCs as opposed to Macs could be considered spreading Fear Uncertainty and Doubt. To me, it's not even close to FUD.

"In years past Apple wasn't running commercials tarrgetting Microsoft."

True. It's kinda hard not to eventually get around to targeting Microsoft, when they have an operating system monopoly, and are therefore your only competitor. It's not exactly like the goliath Apple is getting ready to stomp on lowly Microsoft. ;-)

"If you want to think so..."

It's not that I want to think so, it's that the timing and content of Microsoft's announcements seems to be aimed squarely at disrupting Apple's Macworld announcements. Does it seem coincidental to you?

Re:what apple needs to do

[foobar104]

There's absolutely no justification for that kind of business move. Apple is a luxury brand, and they spend millions cultivating and maintaining that brand. They even go after hobbyists who make Aqua-inspired UI themes, all to protect the Apple and the Mac brands.

Some people believe that Apple's computers are technically superior. In some ways, they are, but in some ways, they aren't. That's not the point. The point is that people buy Macs because of the Apple brand, not the guts of the computer.

A Dell-branded Apple-built computer running Mac OS X would be the worst of all possible worlds. A shit brand wrapped around a technically average and moderately expensive computer, running a niche OS? That's a going-out-of-business plan.

Microsoft is walking a fine line.

[Spencerian]

It's perfectly fine for Microsoft to grouse about Office v.X sales, although they should be well-aware from their own experience with Windows 95 and later that transition to a new operating system and its applications takes time.

Mac OS X's acceptance rate is increasing, and will continue to do so as more games and general software is moved to work in OS X only. This transition will happen strongest in the businesses that use Macintosh systems, then homes, with educators last. Businesses can afford the transition and have already scheduled new systems. Homes have a mix of old and new things that Mac OS X must use, but the purchase of a new computer typically calls for a new printer to replace the ratty one.

Educators are moving very slowly to OS X client since a lot of their software for students and administrators doesn't yet run in Mac OS X. However, Mac OS X Server may have a big acceptance in their IT shops because of its NetBoot and Macintosh Manager network-based client services.

I think that Office v.X gives a lot of users a reason to switch. But $500 for an office suite, especially since AppleWorks comes installed on an iMac, is a price that only a few are willing to pay. Apple users have never really subscribed to the "upgrade annually" mentality that IT pros and home PC users have only began to shake off. Office 2000 for Macintosh works fine in the Classic environment of OS X. Why hasn't Microsoft given them a reason to switch? (One idea: MS should accept a trade-in on old original MS Office software disks--PC or Mac--for a rebate on Office v.X)

The fine line part is that Microsoft must not cut the cord on Mac Office development as lawsuits would be cut for antitrust violations faster than you can do a gaussian blur in Photoshop on a G4. Microsoft can't generate further news that shows how they can bully other companies by threatening--the current distrust by stockholders in Wall Street could lead Microsoft into a different court.

For now, however, I think MS is correct in its criticism. They aren't starving for money, but MS has been watching their revenues drop, too, and want as many dollars as the market will give them. Whether this comment from the MBU has anything to do with Apple's new aggressive marketing is a guess.

Questions to ask that weren't

[ddtstudio]

-- office xp sales have deen dismal. is this the fault of windows xp's slow adoption rate?

-- ms has split office v.x into a number of baffling skus, such as an entourage/word combo, a word/excel combo and so on. were sales of these packages counted in the single number they're tossing around?

-- is the soho/home productivity market saturated?

-- has the sudden stop on hardware upgrade sales affected sales of os x, new macs (which all ship with os x as a default boot) and office?

-- is office v.x just not that great of a product? either in enticing sales or enticing upgraders?

Re:Not pushing OSX?

[BitGeek]

You post that stupid cartoon every freaking day.

Call it "flaming by proxy". Sheesh.

Fact is, Most mac users are regular people who appreciate a computer that ACTUALLY WORKS and doesn't require a lot of work to get it working.

I'm a flat out computer and operating expert, having worked on OSs at microsoft (I disclaim responsibility for their craptitude, though) and am proficient at every platform-- I don't need training wheels to get things done, but I get a LOT more work done per minute on a Mac than any other platform I've used.

Its not that we're elitist- we're tired of idiots calling us and our platform idiots because it ACTUALLY WORKS. So fsck off with your attitude.

Sometimes what you perceive is arrogance is actually the simple knowledge of superiority.