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16,000 CWRU Computers Getting Gigabit Ethernet
lowlypeon writes "In a move that makes going back to college more tempting than usual, Case Western is installing fiber connections in 16,000 computers over the next year to give students a 1 gigabit per second Ethernet connection. Administrators aren't sure what anybody needs that kind of bandwidth for yet, but they are curious to see how it gets used."
and they thought they were having a problem with file sharing before .....
Tis better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt --Abraham Lincoln
Being mature educated college students i'm sure this bandwidth will be used for nothing other than strict educational purposes.
and a bit of a pet peeve.
The name of the school is "Case Western Reserve". I know because I work, teach, and take classes here. Feel free to post your questions about it and I'll do my best to answer.
It's sad what admins will convince businesses and colleges to do just to get ahead in the SETI ratings.
Never confuse volume with power.
Won't this really only be useful for the people on campus, even if someone in New York had an equivalent HS connection because of the inherent bottlenecks that exists on the current internet.
~ kjrose
Porn.
Duh.
makes going back to college more tempting than usual
Sorry, but personally, fast internet connections don't rate quite as highly as 18 year old girls...
"Administrators aren't sure what anybody needs that kind of bandwidth for yet, but they are curious to see how it gets used"
I am interested to find out how the administrators will find out how the links are being used. What hardware/software has the power to track this level of traffic on a switched network.
Will they be using integrated RMON2 NAM cards in the switches or possibly analysis of Netflow data from the routers.
However they do it there will be a geat deal of data to crunch
slashnik
I had a friend who was attending CWRU in 1992-1993 whose Frat House (!) had fiber to each room. He had a 386 with an ISA card had an AUI port, which had a fiber transceiver attached. It may have only been attached to a 10 megabit hub/switch, but the fiber was there.
My classmate took her PowerMac 7100 to CWRU in the fall of 1994, and she also had to buy a fiber to AUI transceiver to hook up her machine in her dorm room. Strosacker auditorium/lecture hall has had fiber ALN drops readily accessable since the early 90s as well.
So it's my belief that the campus has been wired with fiber for at least 10 years; perhaps they're just upgrading thw switches to Gigabit?
Why did they run fiber that long ago? Well, they had to do SOMETHING with all that technology grant money they were getting for CWRUnet/Cleveland Freenet besides buy modems... plus the $26,000 a year tuition/board costs at the time probably made it easier as well. *Smirk*
-RT (Once known as "Iceman" on CFN, as a teen in the early 90s. Scary.)
SlashSigTheorem: Humorous, Political, Critical, Constructive- If you have a
Well, those are two of the things I know that are in the planning stages. What isn't in this article is that about 10,000 WAPs will be deployed across campus to allow for as much seamless coverage as possible. The WAPs will be capable of holding 2 radios (ostensibly for 802.11b/g and 802.11a). One of the neat ideas being bantered about is perhaps the ability to do VoIP over 802.11... so... cellular service with a twist.
Also, CATV might possible be streamed as well.
There's a lot of new technologies that are going to be pushed and tried out on this network. Some if it will be great, some of it will fail miserably. In any case, it should be interesting and hopefully everyone else will be able to enjoy the fruits of our labors and heartaches once we figure out what works and what doesn't!
pr0n, mp3s, avis, vobs, warez ... the usual
Obviously they will start out using the usual suspects, but if the bandwidth is sufficient, I suspect that these boring old illegimate uses will evolve into more interesting illegimate and legimate uses.
Perhaps sharing entire music collections at once, or developing a good P2P TV sharing system. Maybe high resolution webcams and intra-dorm video conferencing. I think it will be interesting to see the communities and cultural shifts that emerge from this kind of concentrated bandwidth. Mini-cultural shifts from some of the above examples might include 'Dorm TV', with a floor or individual rescheduling (and retransmitting) distributely stored TV programs to fit in with classes, along with some ripped movies and home-made messages thrown into the mix. Also, in an age of reality shows, access to higher resolution web-cams/video conferencing might generate totally different perspectives on privacy, especially within an enviroment where students are already likely to share rooms, showers, and eating areas. Like those first exposed to e-mail and the web, these students will surely have different attitudes and higher expectations when they move out and begin work.
Total speculation on my part, but high bandwidth should take us well beyond mp3's and warez, making this a very interesting experiment indeed. The big question will be how this use is monitored (traffic or anecdotal) and if the university/provider will step in prematurely to stop illegal or suspect use, since so much of the ultimately interesting (and even legimate uses) are likely to sprout from initial hacks for illegimate use.
My next sig will be ready soon, but friends can beat the rush!
Well, I think it's going to be a good idea, too. Previously people had a choice between a shared 10 Mbps network (yes, shared... sloooow) or a 155 Mbps ATM connection (ATM never became the standard we thought it was going to be back in 1994/1995... oh well).
I know students who already have striped RAID arrays (have to hold those research reports on something, eh?) I think, too, that that kind of thing will become more prevalent. There are already some high profile centers on campus that could use the bandwidth... and those folks stuck on the basic 10 Mbps network are going to gladly move up to something faster and actually switched.
As far as off-campus connectivity goes, we have the equivalent of an OC-3, but only handle about 36 Mbps in commodity internet and the rest for Internet 2 (minus about 55 Mbps or so.... the firewall only has 100 Mbps cards or something like that).
In any case, we have plenty of bandwidth to the outside world, but I expect we acquire more as time progresses.
Music won't be shared non-lossy. Sure, the transfers rates may be up, but this didn't have the beneficial side effect of increasing hard drive space. Very few people would be willing to d/l WAVs of CDs instead of MP3s for the extra bit of quality due to the 12x (average for 128bit MP3) file size increase. For now, at least.
Same goes with movies. Right now, a high-quality DiVX run you .5+ gig, and while harddrive sizes are increasing, we have a ways to go before we do straight DVD rips.
And again, we still have limitations of the system itself. Sure, you can run 1Gbps fiber into a 533 Celeron. The typical personal computer can't push 1Gbps through the system, and certainly not through the drives.
Maybe someone will set up a beowulf/distributed.net hybrid, using the low-latency network to set up parallel computing on a dynamic basis (systems going on/offline). It would be interesting to see, and would be great proof-of-concept for autonomous computer projects, like IBM's SMASH (part of Blue Gene).
Well, my .02$US at any rate
That what was all this school was for... to teach us how to solve our own problems. -- janeowit
In related news the university has also been sued by the RIAA. In a writen statment the spokesman for the RIAA said "Of course were sueing What the hell else do you think theyll use that network for besides stealing our intelectual property."
This suit is the first in a series of legal actions that the RIAA hopes will solve the P2P dilema. The longterm goal of the law suits is to return everyone to 9600kbps modems or as the same spokesman was quoted saying "If users cant handel the responsibility that comes with a broadband connection we'll have to limit it to corpate america, the last bastion of trust and integrity in america today."
--aiee
A 3c996 SX card runs about $475 at discount
:)
Seriously, who is selling these people 16,000 fiber NICs that they will need to hook up all the PCs? Or are the students expect to foot the bill, on TOP of the $400 per year tech fee listed in the article?
Wouldn't this make a lot more sense?
Newegg.com sells retail boxed, Intel Gigabit cards for $55. So the question is now, how much is the fiber to giga-copper transceiver?
SlashSigTheorem: Humorous, Political, Critical, Constructive- If you have a
Where I work, we just got around to upgrading the network from 10BaseT to 100BaseT. Things did get faster -- but not ten times as fast. In a few extreme cases, apps that transfer umpteen megabytes in a short span were maybe 2 or 3 times as fast. Fifty percent was more typical.
Case was once famous for doing the wrong thing really well. Just as interactive computing started to work, Case developed one of the best batch operating systems of the era. This was so cost-effective that it kept Case studends on punched cards much later than other comparable schools. The entire school ran on a 1 MIPS machine, with enough free time to support a private company selling excess time to commercial users.
.....must...not state...obvious.... .......Arrrrrrrrrrggggggghhhh!
(snap)
Wow! Can you image the Beowulf cluster they could set up with this???
As a Case grad I can inform you that there really is Fibre to every dorm room, class room, etc at Case. It was just running 10mb/s Ethernet when I graduated in '98. This included a fibre optic cable going right up into the computer on a fibre card. My first card in '93 was an AT&T ISA behemoth, going almost the entire length of my case, packed with chips. Now, this doesn't guarantee that they will follow the strategy for gigabit, but if they wasted all that money for fibre for 10mb/s Ethernet, I'd be surprised if they flinched now.
personal attacks hurt, especially when deserved
I believe one of the design goals here is to also prevent the need to upgrade the network every 4 years. With 100 Mbps... chances are we will have to upgrade again. The more upgrades, the more chances for problems and the more disruption for users. Doing it less often will help to extend the investment. These issues have been argued ad nauseum on campus. There are certainly some downsides that few can argue against. However, I believe the benefits will far outweigh the potential downside issues.
Sorry to be off-topic, but I think you missed something.
The ability to share a playlist does not MP3-swapping make. You can send someone else a list of songs and it will find them on the other person's computer.
Also, you've obviously never used an iPod. Apple set it up so iTunes allows you to copy music to the iPod, not from it. Sure, you can use it as a portable hard drive, but condemming the iPod as against the DMCA for that is like saying Sharpie's should be illegal becauce they can defeat CD copy protection. Let's ban all forms of transportable media while we're at it.
The iPod's protection can be broken with various bits of software, but again, condemning the iPod for this would be like condemning makers of CDs because their copy protection can be broken.
Sorry to go off, but Apple is doing far more to keep music both accessible and legal than anyone else I've seen in some time. Even the "Rip. Mix. Burn." campaign was in keeping with that. You must have the CD to rip it. Apple isn't willing to go to the opressive extremes that Microsoft is with Palladium, but they are trying to keep people honest.
Maybe Apple just believes that people can be good, and Microsoft (and most everyone else) has forgetten that.
That what was all this school was for... to teach us how to solve our own problems. -- janeowit
As a current CWRU student who is currently living in the dorms over the summer and currently has his computer hooked up to the network I can try to clear up any confusion on this =) The network does, indeed, feature fiber running to every desktop. As several individuals have stated previously, the University ran fiber optic cable to every dorm room and office several years back (longer back than I remember). That same fiber is now being used to provide gigabit connections to every room. Every student was (or will be) provided a Netgear GA621 gigabit fiber optic network card for their personal computer, which does, indeed, equate to "fiber to the desktop" =)
Well, the fiber has been there since the late 80s, so it's not like we're putting in new fiber. Besides, laptop users will either use 100 Mbps or wireless. I suspect most laptop users will opt for wireless.
Unfortunately, the article doesn't mention wireless at all. A pity.
There's no Cat5 because we already have the fiber network in place. It's been in place since the late 80s for the most part.
It isn't necessarily more fragile (Ever tug too hard on a cat5 cable and have the whole thing come apart?), but, you are right, it tends to be more expensive.
There are a lot of people on here complaining that gigabit just isn't good for anything and no one needs a connection that fast. While I agree that is true in general, there are (non-porn) uses for the connections that universities can really use. For example, I'm a student in an astronomy department. An image from an average-sized digital detector is, oh, 300 MB. Before people start yelling about compression, realize that we have to retain all the information. Of course, this doesn't take into account the fact that there are mosaic cameras that put out a few gigs per image. So, as you can see, a night of 40 images or so can really add up. For us, it makes sense to not only have lots of storage space (mmmmm. . . 1 TB array), but also to have fast connections. We are just starting to experiment with gigabit-over-copper now, and I must say that, so far, it seems to be totally worth it. Having to wait 30 seconds for an image to display on your screen (because it's stored on the disk array at the other end of the office) is a huge pain.
So, I'm not saying that CWRU needs to wire all of their dorms, but gigabit certainly makes sense in some areas.
I couldn't tell if you were experimenting with poor-man's cryogenics or looking for the orange sherbet.
- The article isn't clear about the fiber networking here at CWRU. The fiber network has been in place largely since the late 1980s. This isn't a new installation. New buildings are getting both Cat5 and fiber, but most of the older buildings already have both single and multi mode fiber already installed. Cat5 wasn't even a standard until after the current fiber infrastructure was already in place!
- Yes, the name of the school is Case Western Reserve University.
- CWRU implemented an ATM network in 1995/1996 that failed miserably. I know because I was one of the first people on it. At the time, ATM was an unproven technology. Vendor support just wasn't there. Gigabit is less of a gamble because we know it works and has much better support and a much brighter future.
- The article does not mention anything of the thousands upon thousands of wireless access points that will be installed as well. While 802.11 certainly does not provide anywhere near the performance of a wired connection, most laptop users will probably find the wireless network more useful in the long run
- CWRU isn't the greatest school in the world, but I know that the many people, including myself, work tireless to try to make it better. There are many bitter people (and rightly so) out there who have had negative experiences with the school in the past. However, things have changed and are continuing to move in a very positive direction. I know because I'm living it.
- Presti's is still open and they still sell delicious bakery.
OK... enough ranting for now. I'm going to hop out of this discussion. If anyone has any serious questions, they can email me. I can't guarantee I'll know the answer, but I'll certainly try.If CWRU is installing the wireless, they'll have at least some semblence of security on it. If universities are hunting down rogue wireless, for reasons other than just clueless control-freakness, it's because they're (legitimately) concerned about uncontrolled access as a security risk. Of course, security problems are much different for academia than for businesses - here in the business world, the classic security threat is some college kid hacking into your network. But if you're *running* a university network, all those threats are already *inside* your firewall - and they're your customers....
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks