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Mandrake Linux 9.0 Beta 1

leviramsey writes "MandrakeSoft has released the first beta of the next version of its distribution. It features XFree86 4.2, KDE 3.0, GNOME 2.0, and is compiled with gcc-3.1, which (alas) makes it incompatible with a fair amount of commercial software."

33 of 475 comments (clear)

  1. Compiled with gcc-3.1 by rnturn · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Well, someone had to be first to ship with this compiler. I wouldn't worry. Vendors will catch up.

    --
    CUR ALLOC 20195.....5804M
    1. Re:Compiled with gcc-3.1 by FU_Fish · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I agree, if somebody doesn't step up and start using 3.x, we'll probably all be stuck 2.9x forever. Thank you Mandrake (and Gentoo).

    2. Re:Compiled with gcc-3.1 by fmaxwell · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Well, someone had to be first to ship with this compiler. I wouldn't worry. Vendors will catch up.

      I'm not worried about vendors catching up. I'm more concerned about users. Until Linux gets out of the habit of breaking huge numbers of apps with releases, Microsoft will continue to own the OS market. Recompiling and distributing apps costs money. Users don't expect to have to pay for new apps just because they upgraded from Mandrake 8.2 to Mandrake 9.0. So vendors either eat the costs or piss off the customer base.

      Microsoft has a much better understanding of "the real world" than does the Linux community. Microsoft, love it or hate it, understands that you can't expect vendors to support your product and customers to buy it if you regularly break their software with OS upgrades. And this is coming from someone who really wants to see Linux succeed. I find the security bugs, Product Activation, constantly tightening EULA, Gestapo-like software audits, and Digital Rights Management to be a threat to the entire computer industry.

    3. Re:Compiled with gcc-3.1 by fcrozat · · Score: 5, Informative

      Mandrake 9.0 will be shipped with gcc 3.2..

      We are currently using gcc 3.1.1 branch + backport from 3.2 branch and we will switch to gcc 3.2 as soon as it is released (either this week or next week)..

    4. Re:Compiled with gcc-3.1 by nathanh · · Score: 3, Insightful
      I'm not worried about vendors catching up. I'm more concerned about users. Until Linux gets out of the habit of breaking huge numbers of apps with releases, Microsoft will continue to own the OS market.

      Do you think Microsoft does any differently? I have Win2k apps that won't run on WinNT, WinNT apps that won't run on Win2k, nothing worked on WinXP, and don't get me going about all the applications I bought for Win95 (mostly games) where WINE is my only hope of ever using them again.

      If applications support Win95, WinNT, Win2k, WinME and WinXP out of the box it's only because the vendors went through trials that would have made Heracles cringe.

      If anything, I'm more impressed by the Linux camp because Linus refuses to change for changes sake and the libc guys are positively anal about backwards compatibility.

  2. Glad to hear by dciman · · Score: 3, Informative

    I'm always glad to hear about a new release from Mandrake. Although I personally use Debian, Mandrake has always done an excellent job of promoting useability with their distro. Not to mention what is often the best hardware suport out of the box that I have seen. Granted it isa bit bloated unless you do the expert instal. But I think it is targeted at exactly the right market, and is an easy way for people with out lots of experience to get some of the newest goodies out there.

    1. Re:Glad to hear by Emrys · · Score: 3, Interesting

      No one ever notes this, but Mandrake isn't just for newbies. It's actually a very good distribution for experienced sysadmins. Yeah, I know the've made their big rep on the "user friendly" front, and most people assume that a distro can't cater to both newbies and sysadmins... I used to think that, and never cared about giving Mandrake a look.

      Then I got tired enough of trying to find a distro that really was what I as a sysadmin wanted (after trying redhat, slackware, debian, and suse, which back then were the main options), so I went ahead and gave Mandrake a whirl. I was very pleasantly surprised. Not only have they made sure the experienced users can disable the GUI stuff and not have it break the distro, they actually do active development in the areas that sysadmins care about. And their cooker development area is full of lots of good action for the bleeding edge types, whether you care about the latest GNOME & KDE or just ncurses & xterms.

      Not to be flamebait, but I found in a nutshell that they contained all the source-y and sensible goodness I expected to get from Debian's policies and package management (the meatspace components of it, not dpkg itself), without some of the stuff I didn't like (which will remain here unnamed to avoid a distro war).

      Mandrake was good enough that when I switched years ago I was able to use it as a base to compile everything on my home box from scratch and go from there ("why?" because it was there). Now that Gentoo & others are around, I'm planning to check those out and probably move on, but at least time when I switch distros it won't be because the one(s) I'm leaving behind are inadequate for someone that wants lots of control over their system.

  3. java by dlb · · Score: 3, Interesting

    * Java support is broken. Reason: The currently available Java is not compiled with GCC 3.1 and therefore does not work with our packages.
    What is so imperative about going to gcc 3.1 that you have to break java?

    1. Re:java by Garion911 · · Score: 5, Informative

      Yep, I have compiled Java with 3.1 (using the 2.95 comipiled one first of course.)

      You will need a patch to compile Java too, read here for directions:

      http://hints.linuxfromscratch.org/hints/javafrom sc ratch.txt

      Also, you CAN get flash to work, there's a post in gentoo's message boards on how to do this:

      http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic.php?t=4753

      Hope this helps.

      --
      Slashdot is like Playboy: I read it for the articles
    2. Re:java by Dave+Yearke · · Score: 3, Informative

      For some of the gory details on the GCC 3.1/Java/Mozilla incompatibilities, here's a link:

      http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=116444

      --
      -- Dave
    3. Re:java by mosch · · Score: 4, Funny

      nice link, jackass. FYI, moderators, the link is designed to crash IE.

    4. Re:java by Bollie · · Score: 4, Informative

      * Java support is broken. Reason: The currently available Java is not compiled with GCC 3.1 and therefore does not work with our packages.

      What is so imperative about going to gcc 3.1 that you have to break java?


      Not to harp too much, but I've got a shiny new Gentoo system compiled from scratch with GCC 3.1

      1) GCC 3.1 makes bigger code
      2) GCC 3.1 makes faster code (most of the times)
      3) GCC 3.1 actually tries to conform to a standard other than "just GCC"
      4) Binary compatability is ONLY broken for C++ (maybe some other languages, but definitely not C)
      5) Java (Sun's JDK) works if you compile it from scratch.
      6) Plugins with Mozilla is a bit tricky.
      7) In order to maintain Red Hat compatability they HAVE to use GCC 3.1
      8) The GCC team will shortly break binary compatability yet again (by renaming the GCC 3.1 branch to GCC 3.2).
      9) My is fine. Maybe not stable, but much nicer for a desktop.
      10) Once more people jump on the GCC 3-series bandwagon again (They jumped off when Red Hat did the gcc 2.96 doodoo) GCC will have a nice, stable ABI that won't be broken anytime soon.

      Damn. Harped too much... oh well...

  4. Which apps won't work with gcc-3.1? by Archie+Steel · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Is there a way to find out? I know it's still early, but I just want to find out if I should be excited about Mdk9.0 yet...

    --

    Reminder: find a new sig
    1. Re:Which apps won't work with gcc-3.1? by nev · · Score: 4, Informative
      Check out the Gentoo GCC3 forum. They have been playing with GCC 3 for a while now and the forum has good information on getting various programs to work with it. Problems seem to come up in two places:
      • The compiler can't compile a program due to the source not being compatible with the new GCC.
      • Commercial binaries are not compatible with libraries compiled with the new GCC. This affects things such as Mozilla plugins (Flash, Acrobat).
  5. mirrors by dotgod · · Score: 3, Informative

    Australia

    ftp://ftp.planetmirror.com/pub/Mandrake/8.2/i586/ (Brisbane)
    Austria

    ftp://ftp.univie.ac.at/systems/linux/Mandrake/8.2/ i586/ (Vienna)

    ftp://gd.tuwien.ac.at/pub/linux/Mandrake/8.2/i586/ (Vienna)
    Belgium

    ftp://ftp.belnet.be/packages/mandrake/8.2/i586/
    Costa Rica

    ftp://ftp.ucr.ac.cr/pub/Unix/linux/mandrake/Mandra ke/8.2/i586/
    Czech Republic

    ftp://ftp.cesnet.cz/OS/Linux/Mandrake/mandrake/8.2 /i586/ (Brno)

    ftp://ftp.fi.muni.cz/pub/linux/mandrake/8.2/i586/ (Brno)

    ftp://klobouk.fsv.cvut.cz/pub/linux-mandrake/Mandr ake/8.2/i586/ (Prague)

    ftp://mandrake.redbox.cz/Mandrake/8.2/i586/

    ftp://sunsite.mff.cuni.cz/OS/Linux/Dist/Mandrake/m andrake/8.2/i586/ (Prague)

    http://ftp.fi.muni.cz/pub/linux/mandrake/8.2/i586/ (Brno)
    Denmark

    ftp://ftp.dkuug.dk/pub/mandrake/8.2/i586/ (Koebenhavn)

    ftp://ftp.sunsite.dk/mirrors/mandrake/8.2/i586/ (Aalborg)
    Estonia

    ftp://ftp.aso.ee/pub/os/Linux/distributions/mandra ke/8.2/i586/
    Finland

    ftp://ftp.song.fi/pub/linux/Mandrake/8.2/i586/ (Espoo)
    France

    ftp://ftp.ciril.fr/pub/linux/mandrake/8.2/i586/ (Nancy)

    ftp://ftp.club-internet.fr/pub/unix/linux/distribu tions/Mandrake/8.2/i586/ (Paris)

    ftp://ftp.info.univ-angers.fr/pub/linux/distributi ons/mandrake/8.2/i586/ (Angers)

    ftp://ftp.lip6.fr/pub/linux/distributions/mandrake /8.2/i586/ (Paris)

    ftp://ftp.proxad.net/pub/Distributions_Linux/Mandr ake/8.2/i586/ (Paris)

    ftp://ftp.u-strasbg.fr/pub/linux/distributions/man drake/8.2/i586/ (Strasbourg)

    ftp://linux.ups-tlse.fr/Mandrake/8.2/i586/ (Toulouse)
    Germany

    ftp://ftp-stud.fht-esslingen.de/pub/Mirrors/Mandra ke/8.2/i586/ (Esslingen)

    ftp://ftp.de.uu.net/pub/linux/mandrake/8.2/i586/

    ftp://ftp.fh-giessen.de/pub/linux/mandrake/8.2/i58 6/ (Giessen)

    ftp://ftp.fh-wolfenbuettel.de/pub/os/linux/mandrak e/dist/8.2/i586/ (Wolfenbuettel)

    ftp://ftp.gwdg.de/pub/linux/mandrake/8.2/i586/ (Goettingen)

    ftp://ftp.join.uni-muenster.de/pub/linux/distribut ions/mandrake/8.2/i586/ (Muenster)

    ftp://ftp.leo.org/pub/comp/os/unix/linux/Mandrake/ Mandrake/8.2/i586/ (Munchen)

    ftp://ftp.tu-chemnitz.de/pub/linux/mandrake/8.2/i5 86/ (Chemnitz)

    ftp://ftp.tu-clausthal.de/pub/linux/mandrake/8.2/i 586/ (Clausthal)

    ftp://ftp.uasw.edu/pub/os/linux/mandrake/dist/8.2/ i586/ (Wolfenbuettel)

    ftp://ftp.uni-bayreuth.de/pub/linux/Mandrake/8.2/i 586/ (bayreuth)

    ftp://ftp.uni-kassel.de/pub/linux/mandrake/8.2/i58 6/ (Kassel)

    ftp://ftp.uni-mannheim.de/systems/linux/mandrake/8 .2/i586/ (Mannheim)

    ftp://ftp.vat.tu-dresden.de/pub/Mandrake/8.2/i586/ (Dresden)

    ftp://ramses.wh2.tu-dresden.de/pub/mirrors/mandrak e/8.2/i586/ (Dresden)

    ftp://sunsite.informatik.rwth-aachen.de/pub/Linux/ mandrake/8.2/i586/ (Aachen)
    Greece

    ftp://ftp.duth.gr/pub/Mandrake/8.2/i586/ (Thrace)

    ftp://ftp.ntua.gr/pub/linux/mandrake/8.2/i586/ (Athens)
    Hong Kong

    ftp://ftp.wisr.eie.polyu.edu.hk/linux/mandrake/8.2 /i586/
    Hungary

    ftp://ftp.linuxforum.hu/mirror/Mandrake/8.2/i586/
    Ireland

    ftp://ftp.esat.net/pub/linux/mandrake/8.2/i586/
    Italy

    ftp://bo.mirror.garr.it/mirrors/Mandrake/8.2/i586/ (Bologna)

    ftp://ftp.edisontel.it/pub/Mandrake_Mirror/Mandrak e/8.2/i586/
    Latvia

    ftp://ftp.latnet.lv/linux/mandrake/8.2/i586/
    Netherlands

    ftp://ftp.nl.uu.net/pub/linux/mandrake/8.2/i586/

    ftp://ftp.nluug.nl/pub/os/Linux/distr/Mandrake/Man drake/8.2/i586/

    ftp://ftp.surfnet.nl/pub/os/Linux/distr/Mandrake/M andrake/8.2/i586/

    ftp://ftp.wau.nl/pub/Mandrake/8.2/i586/ (Wageningen)
    Poland

    ftp://ftp.ps.pl/mirrors/mandrake/8.2/i586/ (Szczecin)

    ftp://ftp.task.gda.pl/pub/linux/Mandrake/8.2/i586/ (Gdansk)
    Portugal

    ftp://ftp.dei.uc.pt/pub/linux/Mandrake/Mandrake/8. 2/i586/ (Coimbra)

    ftp://tux.cprm.net/pub/Mandrake/8.2/i586/
    Russia

    ftp://ftp.chg.ru/pub/Linux/mandrake/8.2/i586/ (Chernogolovka)
    Singapore

    ftp://ftp.singnet.com.sg/opensource/linux/Mandrake /8.2/i586/
    Slovakia

    ftp://spirit.profinet.sk/mirrors/Mandrake/8.2/i586 / (Bratislava)
    Spain

    ftp://ftp.cesga.es/pub/linux/Mandrake/8.2/i586/ (Galicia)

    ftp://ftp.cica.es/pub/Linux/Mandrake/8.2/i586/ (Sevilla)

    ftp://ftp.rediris.es/pub/linux/distributions/mandr ake/8.2/i586/
    Sweden

    ftp://ftp.chello.se/pub/Linux/Mandrake/8.2/i586/

    ftp://ftp.chl.chalmers.se/pub/Linux/distributions/ Mandrake/8.2/i586/ (Gothenburg)

    ftp://ftp.du.se/pub/os/mandrake/8.2/i586/ (Dalarma)
    Switzerland

    ftp://ftp.pcds.ch/pub/Mandrake/8.2/i586/ (Neuhausen)

    ftp://sunsite.cnlab-switch.ch/mirror/mandrake/8.2/ i586/ (Zurich)
    Taiwan

    ftp://linux.cdpa.nsysu.edu.tw/pub/Mandrake/mandrak e/8.2/i586/

    ftp://linux.csie.nctu.edu.tw/distributions/mandrak e/Mandrake/8.2/i586/

    ftp://mdk.linux.org.tw/pub/mandrake/8.2/i586/
    Turkey

    ftp://ftp.ankara.edu.tr/pub/linux/dagitimlar/Mandr ake/8.2/i586/ (Ankara)
    United Kingdom

    ftp://ftp.mirror.ac.uk/sites/sunsite.uio.no/pub/un ix/Linux/Mandrake/Mandrake/8.2/i586/ (Canterbury)
    United States

    ftp://ftp-linux.cc.gatech.edu/pub/linux/distributi ons/mandrake/8.2/i586/ (Georgia)

    ftp://ftp.cise.ufl.edu/pub/mirrors/mandrake/Mandra ke/8.2/i586/ (Florida)

    ftp://ftp.cse.buffalo.edu/pub/Linux/Mandrake/mandr ake/8.2/i586/ (NY)

    ftp://ftp.nmt.edu/pub/linux/mandrake/8.2/i586/ (New Mexico)

    ftp://ftp.orst.edu/pub/mandrake/8.2/i586/ (Oregon)

    ftp://ftp.tux.org/pub/distributions/mandrake/8.2/i 586/ (Virginia)

    ftp://ftp.umr.edu/pub/linux/mandrake/Mandrake/8.2/ i586/ (Missouri)

    ftp://ftp.uwsg.indiana.edu/linux/mandrake/8.2/i586 / (Indiana)

    ftp://linux-cs.tccw.wku.edu/pub/linux/distribution s/Mandrake/8.2/i586/ (WKU-Linux, Western Kentucky University)

    ftp://mirror.aca.oakland.edu/linux/mandrake/8.2/i5 86/ (Michigan)

    ftp://mirror.cs.wisc.edu/pub/mirrors/linux/Mandrak e/8.2/i586/ (Wisconsin)

    ftp://mirror.mcs.anl.gov/pub/Mandrake/8.2/i586/ (Illinois)

    ftp://mirrors.ptd.net/mandrake/8.2/i586/ (Pensylvania)

    ftp://mirrors.secsup.org/pub/linux/mandrake/Mandra ke/8.2/i586/

    ftp://uml-pub.ists.dartmouth.edu/mirrors/ftp.mandr akesoft.com/pub/Mandrake/mandrake/8.2/i586/ (New Hampshire)

    ftp://videl.ics.hawaii.edu/mirrors/mandrake/Mandra ke/8.2/i586/ (Hawaii)

    http://mandrake.dsi.internet2.edu/Mandrake/8.2/i58 6/ (For Internet2 academic institutions only)

  6. Re:Where's the love? by ajakk · · Score: 3, Funny

    I bet you are one of these people who complain when duplicate stories are posted saying, "The least they could do is run a search on /." Amazingly, when I ran a search for "debian", the first thing I found was the announcement that Woody went gold. There were only 490 comments on the article.

  7. If you are interested in purchasing this CD-r set: by pheph · · Score: 5, Informative
    A company I do work for is selling (3) CD-r sets of this distribution for $2.49. $0.50 is donated to misc. Open Source and $0.50 is donated directly to Mandrake for their hardwork in creating this distribution.

    If you are interested, please see Open Soars Mandrake Linux 9.0 Beta 1 Product Page.

  8. Mandrake all the way. by $criptah · · Score: 3, Insightful


    Although I am a FreeBSD dude, I loved my workstation running Mandrake. I think they do an excellent job by trying to make the system more optimized for an end user, rather than a professional sys. admin. For a while, I thought that RedHat was the most user friendly, but I was wrong. The installation process was very smooth and clean, that's where most of Linux distros lag behind. With this in mind, I am thinking of getting the latest Mandrake release and putting it on my moms computer. I've heard that she is sick of 'those blue screens' :)

  9. Re:A Mandrake fan cries... by ShavenYak · · Score: 3, Funny

    Hey, don't worry about it. Thanks to the /. effect, you wouldn't be able to download it until you got back anyway.

    --

    Hey kids, there's only 5 days left 'til Yak Shaving Day!
  10. Re:This is good stuff by Arandir · · Score: 4, Funny

    Let me get this straight: you don't use Linux, let alone Mandrake, yet you're spouting off on the benefits of Mandrake...

    Your stated benefits for Mandrake also apply to several other distros. Did you just not get the time to read the back of their boxes as well? Mandrake might be the best Linux distro for you. But there is no way you can tell until you actually have some experience under your belt.

    --
    A Government Is a Body of People, Usually Notably Ungoverned
  11. Re:This is good stuff by disappear · · Score: 5, Funny

    So I don't own, or use, Linux. But I've resolved to make Mandrake my distro when and if I decide to give it a try.
    Translation: I don't have the slightest idea what I'm talking about. But I've made some decisions.

    they're packed with features, lots of options, both GNOME and K desktops, and an easy installation
    Translation: I can read the website, and this is what it says.

    The fact is, any mainstream general-purpose Linux distribution has both GNOME and KDE, tons of features, and tons of options. While Mandrake's installer is nice, it's not worlds ahead of anybody else's anymore. (OK, it's ahead of Debian's in terms of user-friendliness, but what isn't?) Heck, even the Red Hat's installer is friendly these days.

    Nice. I know that you can't do everything with Linux that you can with a current Mac or PC; everyone knows that.
    Translation: I'm a troll. Don't take me seriously.
  12. Re:Two options by ShavenYak · · Score: 3, Interesting

    It's the same situation that Windows users find themselves in all the time, but this time it happens in the Linux world and we wonder what the fix is....

    Really? There are programs compiled for Windows 3.1 that still work perfectly on XP. And Windows users certainly don't end up with incompatible software every time Microsoft updates VisualC++/C#Studio6.5.NET (or whatever the hell they call it nowadays).

    Incidentally, could someone who understands the issues a bit better explain why every upgrade of GCC breaks binary compatibility? And, more importantly, will I be able to run Quake III on Mdk9.0?

    --

    Hey kids, there's only 5 days left 'til Yak Shaving Day!
  13. Proprietary, not Commercial by Cyclops · · Score: 5, Informative

    To the article poster and to all who can't distinguish, here is a rule that you should learn:

    Proprietary Software != Commercial Software

    It's proprietary software (regardless of being commercial or not -- realplayer is proprietary but free of charge) that will not work. This is due to the usual bad support that proprietary software vendors inflict upon the consumers.

    With Free Software (regardless of being commercial or not -- Mandrake cd's can be bought), you can recompile (if someone's not done that for you already) in order to have it work on this new environment, regardless of the wish for profit of the vendor. If you don't have the expertise, you can ask someone else to do it for you (either gratis or for some amount of money).

    So remember kids:
    There is Proprietary Software which is not commercial
    There is Free Software that is commercial
    Proprietary has nothing to do with Commercial

  14. Re:Two options by Arandir · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Incidentally, could someone who understands the issues a bit better explain why every upgrade of GCC breaks binary compatibility?

    Short answer: the gcc crew is lazy, inconsiderate, or both.

    Long answer: they keep changing the way they do C++ name mangling, keep changing the GNU-specific extensions, and keep changing the API for their "standard" C++ library. Once the ISO Standard for C++ was released a few years ago, the g++ ABI should have been finalized and set in stone. Yet g++-3.2 is not going to be backwardly compatible with g++-3.1. Aaargh!

    --
    A Government Is a Body of People, Usually Notably Ungoverned
  15. Re:Advantage of Mandrake over Redhat? by UVABlows · · Score: 3, Informative
    I've only seen a couple. Mandrake includes these features that I haven't seen in Redhat (notice I'm not saying "aren't there", just "I haven't seen", so correct me if Redhat contains these):
    • Installs updates during installation
    • Drakfont - gui for importing fonts from windows
    • Devfs, can tell easier if a device is actually there
    • Drakgw - gui for configuring a firewall/connection sharing machine, it works very well
    • urpmi - like apt-get for rpms, VERY nice (I know a long time redhat user who switched to mdk because of this)
    • Minimal install - you can install a very stripped down system (65mb mandrake claims)

      There's no doubt more than this, this is all I could come up with of the top of my head.

    --

    <high-level position here>
    <name of stupid small company here>

  16. Re:Another GCC nightmare ahead by Clue4All · · Score: 3, Informative

    Both RedHat and Mandrake are switching to 3.2 with their betas when it's released in a week or two. The C++ ABI change is pretty small and won't affect a lot of programs out there.

    --

    Is your browser retarded?
  17. Re:Linux Useability by CJ+Hooknose · · Score: 3, Insightful
    The Mandrake CD contains everything he needs

    Wrong. Does it have games? Minesweeper? Nope

    Are you trolling, or just misinformed? The kdegames package (included with every distro that includes KDE) has "KMines", which is a Minesweeper clone. GNOME has "gnomines". Both these are included under the "games" tab in the K menu ("Start menu") in an installation of SuSE 8.0, and I'd certainly be amazed if Mandrake didn't put them in a similar place.

    Diablo?

    There's no Diablo for Linux, so it's not on the installation CDs for any distro. You can install Falcons Eye Nethack for something arguably better than Diablo, or Zangband for, again, something arguably better than Diablo.

    Falconseye Nethack is on many distro CDs, Zangband is not.

    MS Paint? Right. Paint Shop Pro for me. The same goes for default shipments of Linux

    GIMP comes with every distro, and is as good or better than PaintShop Pro. Curiously, you haven't mentioned any Linux applications in your half-formed rant, only Windows applications. What, praytell, are some examples of applications you think you need that aren't included in a recent distro CD or aren't available via Sourceforge/freshmeat.net ?

    --
    Give a monkey a brain and he'll swear he's the center of the universe.
  18. why does GCC 3.1 break stuff? by Ender+Ryan · · Score: 5, Interesting
    Hmmm... I don't understand why compiling things with GCC 3.1 breaks commercial programs. Is it due to incorrect versions of the libstdc++.* libs? If that is the case why not ship the distribution with both compilers installed?

    Currently I have about half the stuff on my system compiled with gcc 3.1 and have not had a problem.

    Someone who knows more about this please explain.

    --
    Sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken - Tyler Durden
    1. Re:why does GCC 3.1 break stuff? by uhoreg · · Score: 3, Informative

      The C++ ABI changed. So only C++ programs will break. C stuff should work fine. It's not really a matter of shipping with two compilers -- C++ programs compiled with one compiler will not be able to use C++ libraries compiled with another.

      --

      To get something done, a committee should consist of no more than three persons, two of them absent.

    2. Re:why does GCC 3.1 break stuff? by elflord · · Score: 4, Informative
      Hmmm... I don't understand why compiling things with GCC 3.1 breaks commercial programs. Is it due to incorrect versions of the libstdc++.* libs? If that is the case why not ship the distribution with both compilers installed?

      Currently I have about half the stuff on my system compiled with gcc 3.1 and have not had a problem.

      The submitter doesn't have a very good grasp of the issues. The compatibility issue is that gcc 3.1 uses a different ABI to older gcc versions. That is, C++ functions need to have their names "mangled" to handle C++ features such as function overloading, namespaces, and templates; and the name mangling scheme changes from compiler to compiler (largely because they're still trying to get it right) This means that C++ programs compiled with older compilers will not be able to link against C++ libraries (such as libstdc++) compiled with gcc 3.1. In practice, this is not a problem-- most commerical applications don't dynamically link against any C++ libraries except libstdc++, and Linux distributions typically ship multiple libstdc++ versions. The libstdc++ that ships with gcc 3.1 has the soname (the name that the runtime linker cares about) "libstdc++.so.4" by default, so it will not collide with older versions of the same library (which are named differently)

  19. Re:Two options by DrXym · · Score: 3, Insightful
    Why not ship two versions of glibc and gcc? It seems like a fairly sensible way to maintain backwards compatibility while still allowing source-built apps the benefits of being built with a better compiler. It's been done before, I don't see what's different now.

    If necessary you could even write "java", "javac", "javah" etc. scripts in /usr/bin which fixed up the lib paths before invoking the real tools.

  20. You're such a troll. by bgarcia · · Score: 4, Informative
    Short answer: the gcc crew is lazy, inconsiderate, or both.
    Or, you're lazy, inconsiderate, and trolling.

    The C++ ABI keeps changing because they are fixing bugs in the current compiler and C++ Standard Library.

    You can look up the reasons for the compiler-side ABI changes here

    The GNU implementation of the Standard C++ Library has been woefully uncompliant until work was begun on the 3.x version of the library (which was first included in the 3.X versions of the compiler and RedHat's 2.96 version of the compiler).

    So, the real reason why they keep breaking binary compatibility (and it's usually only C++ compatibility) is that they are NOT lazy, but working VERY HARD to create a standards-compliant compiler and library.

    --
    I'm a leaf on the wind. Watch how I soar.
  21. GCC 3.1 by Junta · · Score: 3, Informative

    I've been running gcc 3.1 compiled gentoo for a while now. Very nice and offers some tangible speedups. However, the costs:

    Browser Plugins:
    Flash plugin required me to write a small compatibility library to mimick some the old libstdc++ mangled memory allocation schemes. This will probably not appear in a Mandrake desktop, as they will likely provide a -compat library without the user knowing.
    Never have gotten java plugins to work... Just haven't figured it out for blackdown, ibm's, nor suns.... Realplayer plugin problem same as Flash. Right now I am just lacking java...

    Build:
    Some programs won't build out of the box. Some due to bad code, but mostly due to strange build configuration. For example, basiliskII's build fails at one point when gcc is used to link object files generated by g++ and bombs because some g++ symbols are unknown to gcc, switching that gcc to g++ makes that step go by... Others I've had issues with include PixiePlus, mame, and openoffice.

    Others may have issues. I don't use crossover as vanilla wine fills all my needs, and I have nothing in the way of commercial software aside from games, which all *worked*, (every quake, civctp). The biggest problem I've had is again, c++ browser plugins...

    --
    XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.