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Subversion Hits Alpha

C. Michael Pilato writes: "This overheard while eavesdropping on announce@subversion.tigris.org: Gentle coders, The ever-growing cadre of Subversion developers is proud to announce the release of Subversion 'Alpha' (0.14.0). Since we became self-hosting eleven months ago, we've gone through ten milestones. This milestone, however, is the one we've always been working towards; it's a freeze on major features for our 1.0 release. From here out, it's mostly bug-fixing. We hope this announcement will lead to more widespread testing; we welcome people to try Subversion and report their experiences on our development list and issue tracker." Subversion, a source control system akin to CVS, has been in the works for a couple of years now.

208 comments

  1. Hey, yo! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    If Tux can get laid, why can't you?

  2. FP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    Suck it. I'm on a roll.

  3. The Troll Polka: UPDATED by poopbot by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    THE TROLL POLKA (ARSCHFICKEN MIT ZIEGEN)
    By Serial Troller, 2002-06-25

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    ____________________

    Change Log:

    * Subtle changes to most verses. It sounded really gay before.
    * Removed all references to Taco's pud. May have been high at time. Will investigate further.
    * Finally think I have goat sex written correctly in German. I think. Arschficken?

    (C) 2002 Serial Troller. Permission to reproduce this document is granted provided that you send all the bukkake porn you can find to serialtroller@hotmail.com.

    - posted by poopbot: news for turds, stuff that splatters

    l8yJRqO7DI Post #694

  4. Why? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    Just use some of the perfectly good source control programs out there. Visual Basic Source-Safe comes to mind.

    1. Re:Why? by Peyna · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Isn't Source-Safe expensive?

      --
      What?
    2. Re:Why? by LordStrange · · Score: 1
      Isn't Source-Safe expensive?

      Yes. Insanely expensive. It is pretty good but not really close to being worth $500 per seat (when purchased separately from Visual Studio).

      --

      License: By reading this you are agreeing that you agree with me.

    3. Re:Why? by Junta · · Score: 3

      If by 'pretty good' you mean 'total piece of shit', I agree. Most of the Visual Studio suite is pretty decent, but Source Safe comes off exactly as what it is, a software package bought out by MS for the express purpose of saying Visual Studio has SCM, and then doing next to nothing with it to make it work better. As an admin in a shop of people begging to leave Source Safe for something like Rational, or even CVS, I know how it is... Subversion may offer the core needed to build a replacement that keeps both developers and the businessmen happy...

      --
      XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
    4. Re:Why? by Storm+Damage · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Only $500/seat? Good lord how I wish our versioning software was that cheap. Right now I'm writing a Purchase Request for 4 more Rational ClearCase licenses...

      When the license + 1 year support for each is all added up, we'll be cutting a check to the tune of about $16,000

      I've asked the CM people before why we're not using something cheap (free) like CVS (as the sysadmin, I don't get to make the decisions, I just get to make it work once the stuff is purchased), and they casually said "Hell, I don't know, that's just what we're stuck with."

      I guess "Hell, I don't know, that's just what we're stuck with" is an appropriate attitude when you've got oodles and oodles of taxpayer dollars to spend...

      I know, I know. I'm going to hell.

    5. Re:Why? by noselasd · · Score: 1

      I agree that there are plenty of good source control programs. SourceSafe is NOT one of them, I have to use it every now and then and know The idea is that you control the system, not the other way around. Besides, it isnt free, and there some people that would like a free source control system - imagine that.
      Good source control systems includes Bitkeeper and ClearCase. Neither of those are free/opensource.

    6. Re:Why? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yup. Last week I was reading some papers on the development of Win2K(found at the Usenix site actually). ANd it mentioned that they had to develop their own SCM for the purpose.(and that was NOT SourceSafe)

    7. Re:Why? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't forget Perforce...

    8. Re:Why? by ChaosDiscordSimple · · Score: 2

      I suspect that the anonymous coward is joking, but please, if you care about your source code at all, do not use Visual SourceSafe. Visual SourceSafe is awful software that plagued my existance for five years. If you are using Visual SourceSafe, or are considering it, please see this page on Visual SourceSafe's faults.

    9. Re:Why? by chez69 · · Score: 0

      because clearcase is the best you can get in that category. CVS doesn't hold a candle to it.

      --
      PHP is the solution of choice for relaying mysql errors to web users.
    10. Re:Why? by Dragonmaster+Lou · · Score: 1

      Ugh. No offense, but you must be some kind of masochist if you like ClearCase. I honestly do prefer CVS to it (even though it does have a few nice features) just because it's such a pain in the ass to use and install.

    11. Re:Why? by Dragonmaster+Lou · · Score: 1

      I wouldn't call ClearCase "good." Better than SourceSafe from what I heard, but it is a pain in the ass in many ways. Yes, it scales, and yes, it gets the job done very nicely, but I'm not a big fan of *how* it gets the job done.

    12. Re:Why? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      FYI, clearcase does a shitload of things that cvs can't, so please feel free to spend my tax money on licenses for it.

      cvs is common, but that doesn't mean it's good. at all.

  5. FP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    First time

  6. I would've downloaded it... by swf · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    but you need a copy of subversion to do it!

    1. Re:I would've downloaded it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

      Wow. The gods and mods hate you, man.

  7. In 20 words or less. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Tell me what has Subversion got that CVS hasn't? (No this is not a flame, I'd like to know).

    1. Re:In 20 words or less. by Westley · · Score: 5, Informative

      Surely the easiest way of finding out is to visit the website. From the front page:

      Directories, renames and file meta-data are versioned.

      Commits are truly atomic.

      Apache as network server, WebDAV/DeltaV for protocol

      Branching and tagging are cheap (constant time) operations.

      Natively client/server, layered library design.

      Client/server protocol sends diffs in both directions.

      Costs are proportional to change size, not data size.

      Efficient handling of binary files.

      Parseable output.

      For more details, see the website.

      Jon

    2. Re:In 20 words or less. by Fweeky · · Score: 1, Redundant

      Versioning of filenames (and other metadata) so you can svn mv something, cheap branching/tagging, binary diffs, and atomic commits.

    3. Re:In 20 words or less. by ebuck · · Score: 3, Informative

      It's been awhile since I looked at it, but as I recall:

      In 20 words or less:

      Subversion is CVS on steroids without being tied down to the history of CVS.

      And some of the reasons why are:

      Subversion handles directories.
      CVS does not.
      Subversion handles file permissions.
      CVS does not.
      Subversion makes atomic commits (and rolls back prior to the commit if necessary).
      CVS cannot, it will stop at the last file processed (and you have to clean it up by hand).
      Subversion uses HTTP/WebDAV (both reliable protocols).
      CVS uses it's own protocols which might be less reliable.
      Subversion performs more operations in constant time.
      CVS uses more time for the same operations although it is not necessary.
      Subversion is naitvely client-server.
      CVS had the client-server added on after the core code was developed creating some odd aspects of operation.
      Subversion transmits deltas, so costs are porportional to change size.
      CVS changes are (I believe, not know) proportional to project or file size.

      --- Fabrication is the stuff filling the holes of memory.

    4. Re:In 20 words or less. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Subversion uses HTTP/WebDAV (both reliable protocols).
      CVS uses it's own protocols which might be less reliable.


      FUD.

      Subversion is naitvely client-server.
      CVS had the client-server added on after the core code was developed creating some odd aspects of operation.


      Such as what?

      Arguably, this is a disadvantage: CVS is lightweight, Subversion requires you run apache*.

      * until someone implements a new ra module.

    5. Re:In 20 words or less. by Eccles · · Score: 1

      Tell me what has Subversion got that CVS hasn't? (No this is not a flame, I'd like to know).

      To go into a little more detail:
      The key difference (although there are many) is that you check in (or commit, or submit, or) a change, not a file. Thus all related changes are bound together. It makes it a lot easier to understand how the code is changing, the code should compile after each change (and if it doesn't, you can figure out whose fault it is), and you can get an older version based on its commit number. You can also do things like tying the commits to a verification system, and that system can report build failures, tag versions as being buildable, passing regression tests, etc.

      Perforce (among others) is organized in this fashion, and it really makes a huge difference if you're working with lots of developers.

      --
      Ooh, a sarcasm detector. Oh, that's a real useful invention.
    6. Re:In 20 words or less. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      F'ing karma whore.

      Link, mirror, do not copy!

    7. Re:In 20 words or less. by ebuck · · Score: 2, Interesting

      One odd aspect comes to mind directly, modifications to CVS code must be made in two places to have effect.

      Modify it once to support the old "there's no network" calls. Modify it again to support the added on "network enabling code".

      For most users this is not a visible issue, that is until:

      1. You issue a command via network and it doesn't act like a command when you're in the box.
      2. You want to know why #1 happens.

      Yes, you can argue that having a web server is extra overhead, but that burden is being supported by people who worry about web servers full time, not by those who worry about source code control. And if you're not using a network, why the extra overhead of CVS? RCS would remove the network overhead entirely.

    8. Re:In 20 words or less. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      One odd aspect comes to mind directly, modifications to CVS code must be made in two places to have effect.

      OK, but as a CVS *user* that's never bothered me.

      Yes, you can argue that having a web server is extra overhead, but that burden is being supported by people who worry about web servers full time, not by those who worry about source code control.

      Why? We don't run apache here. It wouldn't be our web guy's problem. It'd be mine.

    9. Re:In 20 words or less. by ftobin · · Score: 2

      Subversion uses HTTP/WebDAV (both reliable protocols). CVS uses it's own protocols which might be less reliable.

      CVS uses ssh which is much more reliable and secure than yet-another-protocol-over-HTTP.

    10. Re:In 20 words or less. by slamb · · Score: 3, Informative
      CVS uses ssh which is much more reliable and secure than yet-another-protocol-over-HTTP.

      CVS uses [kgnp]server (Kerberos, GSSAPI, NTLM, Password) as its communication protocol. It's not even encrypted.

      The cvs-over-[rs]sh thing is a kludge, an extension of the local repository access. It requires each person have a Unix shell account with write access to the repository. You can't do much security-wise with that. Since CVS stores each file independently, you can at least say they don't have access to a module but you can't say they don't have access to a certain branch. And you certainly can't say something like "they can't delete/modify existing revisions".

      HTTP/WebDAV/DeltaV is nice for a few reasons:

      • the protocols were already made. HTTP, TLS, WebDAV, and DeltaV all existed beforehand. The authentication and stuff were settled. It saves work designing protocols.
      • Support of existing software. You can mount a Subversion repository read-only with no special software in most operating systems. ("Web folders" under Win2K for example. Try it. http://svn.collab.net/svn/repos/trunk) Eventually, even write access with automatic versioning. (Which means the log messages will be pretty worthless, but it has some of the advantages of revision control and is completely transparent.) DeltaV-supporting software will probably start to come out pretty soon as well.
      • Existing code. Apache has a pretty solid server architecture. It divvies up the requests, handles TLS, does authentication, logging, etc. mod_dav was already written as well. mod_dav_svn is a pretty small part of the whole.
    11. Re:In 20 words or less. by ftobin · · Score: 3, Interesting

      CVS uses [kgnp]server (Kerberos, GSSAPI, NTLM, Password) as its communication protocol. It's not even encrypted.

      Noone in their right minds uses this.

      The cvs-over-[rs]sh thing is a kludge, an extension of the local repository access.

      It's a 'kludge' that works extremely well, and fits well into the unix philosophy.

      It requires each person have a Unix shell account with write access to the repository. You can't do much security-wise with that.

      False. It requires that they have an account on the system, not one necessarily that allows you to execute a shell (just like SourceForge has it set up).

      Since CVS stores each file independently, you can at least say they don't have access to a module but you can't say they don't have access to a certain branch. And you certainly can't say something like "they can't delete/modify existing revisions".

      True. But this has little to do with the transport protocol.

    12. Re:In 20 words or less. by BlowCat · · Score: 2
      CVS uses [kgnp]server (Kerberos, GSSAPI, NTLM, Password) as its communication protocol. It's not even encrypted.
      Oh, yes, very "informative".

      From cvs.info (Direct connection with GSSAPI):

      The data transmitted is _not_ encrypted by default. Encryption support must be compiled into both the client and the server; use the `--enable-encrypt' configure option to turn it on. You must then use the `-x' global option to request encryption.

    13. Re:In 20 words or less. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      RCS only lets you store revisions in place (*,v) or in the RCS folder of the immediate directory (RCS/*,v). CVS, even when run locally, lets you specify a separate path for your source code repositiry.

    14. Re:In 20 words or less. by aled · · Score: 1
      I It's a 'kludge' that works extremely well, and fits well into the unix philosophy.

      I prefer something that works extremely well and fits well into the internet / interoperability / multiplatform philosophy.

      --

      "I think this line is mostly filler"
    15. Re:In 20 words or less. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      so your saying basicly 1/10 the stuff that would go into cvs if the developers had a brain cell among them.

    16. Re:In 20 words or less. by slamb · · Score: 2
      > > CVS uses [kgnp]server (Kerberos, GSSAPI, NTLM, Password) as its communication protocol. It's not even encrypted.

      > Noone in their right minds uses this.

      Right, no one uses its authentication for anything important. CVS doesn't have a decent protocol. For extra annoyance, they do use it for anonymous stuff, since it is not good to have a Unix account for anonymous people. So you need two different ways of accessing CVS.

      > > The cvs-over-[rs]sh thing is a kludge, an extension of the local repository access.

      > It's a 'kludge' that works extremely well, and fits well into the unix philosophy.

      No, it does not work well. There's not a lot of Java code available to talk ssh, for example. It's not good for cross-platform stuff.

      Also, ssh handshakes are time-consuming. This is important because cvs reconnects for each operation. In contrast, HTTP has well-defined and well-known standards for keepalive and pipelining.

      > > It requires each person have a Unix shell account with write access to the repository. You can't do much security-wise with that.

      > False. It requires that they have an account on the system, not one necessarily that allows you to execute a shell (just like SourceForge has it set up).

      I'm afraid you have me at a disadvantage - I've not seen SourceForge's setup. I'm not a committer on any projects there. However, ssh requires a shell account - it might be a restricted shell of some sort, but they need a shell.

      Also, the manual certainly has no better way. If you are able to do so, please patch it. I quote:

      It is possible to grant read-only repository access to people using the password-authenticated server (*note Password authenticated::). (The other access methods do not have explicit support for read-only users because those methods all assume login access to the repository machine anyway, and therefore the user can do whatever local file permissions allow her to do.)

      There are a lot of things not possible to do with Unix file permissions. Saying things can be added but not modified. (You can have setgid directories, but not setuid ones.) One group that can read/write, one that can read, everyone else who can do nothing. Permissions within the files (short of splitting them into more files, which makes Subversion's ACID semantics difficult) . All of these things are possible with Subversion - you just write a Perl script that inspects the transaction and allows or denies it. Please take a look at commit-access-control.pl for an example.

      > True. But this has little to do with the transport protocol.

      You need a smart server to accomplish this. Subversion's :ext: method of remote access (rerunning the command on the other machine through [rs]sh) doesn't qualify. Arch's modify-via-ftp doesn't either. Those can't ever do anything but the Unix file permisssion way, but with a server between it can decide what is allowed or denied.

      You notably didn't quote/comment on my points about why HTTP/WebDAV/DeltaV was a good choice. They clearly needed a protocol of some sort. I think using the existing standards was a good choice. Why would something else be better? Why would you not use HTTP? You said:

      > CVS uses ssh which is much more reliable and secure than yet-another-protocol-over-HTTP.

      Do you have anything to back that up? How is HTTP/TLS/WebDAV/DeltaV unreliable or insecure?

      If you're that dead set against that protocol, write a new one. It already has the abstraction - both ra_local and ra_dav are supported. Write a new ra_XXX if you so desire. And a new server to replace mod_dav_svn. Of course, no one will use it - the DAV stuff works well. But maybe you'd feel better.

    17. Re:In 20 words or less. by ftobin · · Score: 2

      There are a lot of things not possible to do with Unix file permissions.

      You assume a basic unix filesystem, not something like AFS, which has rich, powerful (though not sub-file) ACL support.

      However, ssh requires a shell account - it might be a restricted shell of some sort, but they need a shell.

      SourceForge only lets you execute cvs when you login (that is, you cannot execute any other program, including any shell). Furthermore, you really don't need line in /etc/passwd, if that is your concept of a 'shell account'. SourceForge uses an LDAP server, I think, for accounts. So, given the abscence of a line in /etc/passwd, and only the ability to execute 'cvs', I don't quite see how this qualifies as a 'shell account'

      You notably didn't quote/comment on my points about why HTTP/WebDAV/DeltaV was a good choice.

      I did not comment because I had nothing to argue against in what you said, they were all quite true statements. But the benefits you stated has no value to me.

      How is HTTP/TLS/WebDAV/DeltaV unreliable or insecure?

      The cryptography for ssh is much more secure than the examples you've give. The authentication means are more powerful, and there is agent-forwarding, both extremely important.

      And a new server to replace mod_dav_svn.

      I highly dislike systems writing servers where none is needed (ala CVS with [rs]sh; ssh handles the network).

    18. Re:In 20 words or less. by slamb · · Score: 1
      > You assume a basic unix filesystem, not something like AFS, which has rich, powerful (though not sub-file) ACL support.

      Right. I assume what's commonly available. And AFS still can't do the right thing. If you've noticed, Subversion goes to the other extreme in terms of numbers of files - everything's in a single Berkeley DB. This allows them to have nice ACID semantics. So granting access in this way would be all-or-none - awful instead of merely bad.

      > Furthermore, you really don't need line in /etc/passwd, if that is your concept of a 'shell account'.

      That definition is wrong. On www.slamb.org, user slamb has a UID and a login shell, but not a line in /etc/passwd. The NSS method is completely irrelevant.

      If you do a "finger cvsonlyuser" on SourceForge, I'm sure it will say "Shell: /cvsonly/shell" or something. When given "-c cvs" arguments, it must invoke cvs. That program is, by definition, a shell. You may be correct that this is not a huge security flaw, but my terminology is right. And also the cvs manual says nothing of how to restrict stuff in this way - again, it should have the best security practices.

      > > How is HTTP/TLS/WebDAV/DeltaV unreliable or insecure?

      > The cryptography for ssh is much more secure than the examples you've give. The authentication means are more powerful, and there is agent-forwarding, both extremely important.

      The only example I gave was the access control script - that's authorization. I did not discuss how HTTP authentication & TLS works. Authorization != authentication.

      There's nothing wrong with TLS's cryptography. It doesn't do agent forwarding, but it doesn't need to: you aren't forwarding the agent to the Subversion repository. It would be possible to do agent forwarding to the client to get its key. No one's done it (no one's even implemented TLS certificates - that's issue #650, I'm looking forward to it) but it's possible.

      > I highly dislike systems writing servers where none is needed (ala CVS with [rs]sh; ssh handles the network).

      It's important to have a smart server to have flexible authorization. You simply can't do it otherwise.

      This is very similar to any RDBMS. They provide fine-grained security and ACID semantics. They need servers to do it. No one questions them.

      But again - if you want it done a different way, do it. Write a new ra_xxx and an executable that, when forked from ssh, communicates with the client. (Call it something other than a server if you like.) I actually see a partially written ra_pipe - that might be what you want, not sure.

    19. Re:In 20 words or less. by ftobin · · Score: 2

      If you do a "finger cvsonlyuser" on SourceForge, I'm sure it will say "Shell: /cvsonly/shell" or something. When given "-c cvs" arguments, it must invoke cvs.

      You're confused as to how this is implemented. ssh itself allows you to restrict the command to ssh. From the sshd manpage:

      command="command"

      Specifies that the command is executed whenever this key is used for authentication. The command supplied by the user (if any) is
      ignored.

      There's nothing wrong with TLS's cryptography. It doesn't do agent forwarding, but it doesn't need to: you aren't forwarding the agent to the Subversion repository.

      I'm well aware that I'm not forwarding the agent to the repository, but I am forwarding the agent from my base machine to where I do my work, and from there I authenticate to the repository.

      Actually, I can easily forsee needs to forward the agent to the repository, if the repository needs to authenticate to something like the filesystem (ala AFS).

      It's important to have a smart server to have flexible authorization. You simply can't do it otherwise.

      I don't diagree with that statement. However, the 'smart server' doesn't need to know anything about the network, just talk over a unix domain socket.

      This is very similar to any RDBMS. They provide fine-grained security and ACID semantics. They need servers to do it. No one questions them.

      The need for database systems to talk over a network I do question.

      Write a new ra_xxx and an executable that, when forked from ssh, communicates with the client. (Call it something other than a server if you like.) I actually see a partially written ra_pipe - that might be what you want, not sure.

      If cvs's ever begins to actually be a worry for me, and I consider a different version-control system, I might look into it. But that would likely mean having to work with WebDAV, which is another argument in its own right.

    20. Re:In 20 words or less. by slamb · · Score: 1
      > I'm well aware that I'm not forwarding the agent to the repository, but I am forwarding the agent from my base machine to where I do my work, and from there I authenticate to the repository.

      Right, so the Subversion protocol does not need special support for it.

      > Actually, I can easily forsee needs to forward the agent to the repository, if the repository needs to authenticate to something like the filesystem (ala AFS).

      Not necessary with mod_dav_svn - it uses standard Unix filesystem operations with its uid no matter how you authenticate to it.

      For that matter, Berkeley DB doesn't work on NFS, so it probably doesn't on AFS either. Locking. Same as a RDBMS.

      > However, the 'smart server' doesn't need to know anything about the network, just talk over a unix domain socket.

      I suppose. But ssh+pipe means that:

      • it must forks/exec for each connection. I've learned from moving to CGI to Servlets that forking really slows things down. (You'd expect Java stuff to be much slower, but that's not true.) IIRC, sshd forks two processes with privilege seperation. One of those execs your binary (even if it doesn't go through a shell).
      • You require a Unix UID. I just don't like this idea. It's unnecessary.
      • It doesn't have the interoperability of HTTP/WebDAV/DeltaV. Those work with a lot of software, and not just in the Unix world. So there's no getting rid of that stuff for me.

      > > Write a new ra_xxx and an executable that, when forked from ssh, communicates with the client. (Call it something other than a server if you like.) I actually see a partially written ra_pipe - that might be what you want, not sure.

      > If cvs's ever begins to actually be a worry for me, and I consider a different version-control system, I might look into it. But that would likely mean having to work with WebDAV, which is another argument in its own right.

      Ehh? It would replace WebDAV.

    21. Re:In 20 words or less. by ftobin · · Score: 2

      Right, so the Subversion protocol does not need special support for it.

      Well, if it uses a different protocol, it will probably be hard to tie talking to the agent for authentication with the protocol Subversion would be using. In other words, while I could forward the agent to from point 1 to X-1, where X is Subversion, and not need to forward the agent from X-1 to X, and the protocol through 1 to X-1 and X-1 to X are different, it would be difficult to get these two protocols to 'talk'.

      For that matter, Berkeley DB doesn't work on NFS, so it probably doesn't on AFS either. Locking. Same as a RDBMS.

      Actually, I wouldn't be at all surprised if AFS supported locking, but I won't delve too deep here, since I'm not sure. But certainly don't rule it out.

      The fork-exec cost is highly overrated in my book (assuming the code is already in memory), given copy-on-write.

      You require a Unix UID. I just don't like this idea. It's unnecessary.

      This is one drawback, yes, but lessed a great deal with NSS and the like. It's not the UID that is the problem (practially all systems have a user id of some sort), but more the tying of multiple authentication databases together isn't that great. I wouldn't be surprised the ssh people are working on making it good for authenticating more than unix accounts, though.

      Ehh? It would replace WebDAV.

      Oh, I was more referring to trying to replace the transport mechanism (HTTP(S)), not the communications layer (what is actually spoken across it).

    22. Re:In 20 words or less. by ebbe11 · · Score: 2
      so your saying basicly 1/10 the stuff that would go into cvs if the developers had a brain cell among them

      They do. But they have decided that adding this fucntionality to CVS is not viable, so they're developing subversion instead.

      Hint: Many of the subversion developers are also CVS maintainers.

      --

      My opinion? See above.
  8. Four words by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    A way cooler name.

  9. sweet! by Horny+Smurf · · Score: -1

    This is good news! CVS apologists can stop reading (and moderating :) this post now. Okay, CVS has shortcomings that can't easily be overcome. But, it's widely available. Personally, I use perforce for my own development work (you get a 2-seat license for free), since it supports a lot of basic features that cvs doesn't (change sets, linked failures, IDE integration).

    I may switch to subversion, though. It looks like it has promise!

  10. testing subversion/cvs... by grey1 · · Score: 1, Offtopic

    Does anyone have a test set to try subversion (or cvs) out with, lying around at the back of a directory somewhere?

    Seriously, though, how, other than using it for real, might one test subversion? And how would you recover from the bugs that will be in there without devoting your life to it for a few weeks?

    Just wondering.
    Graham

    --
    "we demand rigidly defined areas of doubt and uncertainty!"
    1. Re:testing subversion/cvs... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      they use RCS file text and diff files, so you can make a weekly backup of them (or more often. You do make backups, don't you?), and if something gets funky, you can extract the info from the ,v files.

    2. Re:testing subversion/cvs... by grey1 · · Score: 1

      yes of course I make backups but when testing something that's in alpha, if I'm testing it with real work, I either

      a) hope nothing goes wrong (ROFL)
      b) backup my personal source tree immediately before each subversion commit step

      Because otherwise you can guarantee that when I want to roll back 2 or 3 steps to dig through an issue with my code, I'll hit a bug in subversion.

      Now do you get what I was asking? And why?
      Maybe next time I'll use a few more words...

      --
      "we demand rigidly defined areas of doubt and uncertainty!"
    3. Re:testing subversion/cvs... by nthomas · · Score: 4, Informative

      Seriously, though, how, other than using it for real, might one test subversion? And how would you recover from the bugs that will be in there without devoting your life to it for a few weeks?

      You raise some serious concerns, let me try and alleviate those fears.

      I've been using Subversion for a few months now (since revision 1210 or so), and let me to tell you, there is nothing that the dev team values more than the integrity of your data. Nothing. This means that once something has been comitted, it will never be lost.

      Does this mean your data is guaranteed with an alpha-quality system? No. But let me tell you, in 6 months I've not seen it happen once. Oh sure, there have been a few times when the DB schema changed, and the format of the dumpfile (more on that in a bit) changed on you, but these things were discussed well in advance on the dev list and not only did you have plenty of opportunity to prep your data for the change, there were ways for you to convert your data after the fact.

      If you are the sort of person that likes to tweak around with your data in the repository (if you come from a CVS background -- you have to be) and gets the heeby-jeebies from having your data stored in a non-accessible format, let me ask you this, do you worry about the fact that you have data stored in Oracle/Postgres/Sybase/MySQL? No? Then why worry about the Subversion repository at all?

      Of course, the dev team has provided you with some nice backup tools, for example, the normal Unix cp command can be used to make hot-backups of your repostories, a very cool trick. In addition, there is an svnadmin command that has a "dump" feature that allows you to store your repository in a text file, if you worry about Subversion trashing your data, keep regular dumps of your repository.

      Of course, all is not rosy. I would like to see a patchsets feature, and I really miss "cvs annotate" (but "svn blame" is scheduled to be added after the 1.0 release), and of course, the db has a tendency to lock up every once in a while (you can fix it easily with db_recover) but by and large, these are things I can live with.

      After using this system for a while, I've come to one conclusion: it works. And it works better than CVS. Forget the years of bad habits you learned on CVS, once you start using Subversion, you will start to think about SCM systems in a whole new way. Try it out.

    4. Re:testing subversion/cvs... by my_furry_butt · · Score: 2, Informative

      Something that might give you more confidence is that as subversion is self-hosting, much of what you would test on "real code" is being done every day by the subversion team, and has been for months. Branching, merging, rollbacks, etc would have to be pretty rock solid by now, otherwise the SVN team wouldn't be able to self-host effectively.

      But extreme pessimism for the first couple of "checkout-edit-compile-test-release-commit" cycles wouldn't hurt either - just don't expect to be shocked at issues.

      I think this alpha stage is more about getting a wider audience using SVN, and give feedback on usability, rather than stability and correctness. Things like how noisy is it, how informative, can a oft-repeated three-step process be reduced to two, or one (or none!) with a little thought for SVN's activites. Stuff that comes up when code is released into the wild.

      --
      It's not the depth of the water thats the problem. It's the current that kills you.
    5. Re:testing subversion/cvs... by slamb · · Score: 2
      Of course, the dev team has provided you with some nice backup tools, for example, the normal Unix cp command can be used to make hot-backups of your repostories, a very cool trick.

      Please check out hot-backup.py. It doesn't do much more than cp, but it doesn't just do cp repository backupdir. It copies the logfiles last. That's important.

  11. why does subversion exist? by The+Rogue86 · · Score: 0, Redundant

    perhaps i am just a bit dumb but wouldnt it make more sense to have them join up with CVS and bring their code together to form a better service. this would also have the added advantage of making life easyer for those of us who do weekly (daily?) builds of our alpha/beta software by placing all the code in the same 'place'. this service seems to be redundant and will probably not stay up to date with CVS or else CVS will not stay current with it either way it doesnt seem to make sense IMO

    --
    This is how you know you're a geek the power goes out and you are unemployed and unemployable. Yes I know I can't spell
    1. Re:why does subversion exist? by Emrys · · Score: 2, Informative

      As I noted elsewhere, "they" *are* CVS, for all practical purposes. CVS is very old and showing its age and it's time for a rewrite. Updating has reached the end of where it can be useful, considering even CVS's networking layer was added as an afterthought/extension. Subversion is intended to supplant CVS.

    2. Re:why does subversion exist? by rtaylor · · Score: 4, Informative

      The parent is almost a troll. If you look up who maintains CVS and who maintains subversion you'll find alot of the same people.

      After a decade (has CVS been around longer?) some things just need to be restarted from scratch as every hack possible on the base has already been tried.

      In the case of CVS, it's the storage format that is causing the largest problems -- and the reason for the term 'repo-copy' which is one of the most annoying things I can think of (repo-copy then check out an old version -- look, duplicated stuff!).

      --
      Rod Taylor
    3. Re:why does subversion exist? by ebuck · · Score: 4, Informative

      Subversion exists because every now and then, after doing tons of patching, fixing, feature adding, and code tweaking you realize that if you started with a different sort of code architecture life would be easier.

      The CVS guys are working on subversion, but "fixing" CVS would not necessairly be the best way to fix their problems. Massive changes in CVS would raise a cry of desperation from the masses of programmers that rely on CVS for day-to-day operation. Also, if it is discovered that a totally new way of handling things is much better than the way CVS works, you encounter nasty if not impossible upgrade difficulties.

      People don't want to put their code at risk. Too much time and money goes into it. Subversion "solves" the migration problem by making a totally new project.

    4. Re:why does subversion exist? by zrodney · · Score: 1


      After a decade (has CVS been around longer?)


      ha ha ha ! yes. cvs, is much much older than
      1992

      maybe we should start a thread about cvs vs sccs now?

  12. not just "akin to CVS" by Emrys · · Score: 5, Informative

    It would be more accurate to say subversion:CVS::mozilla:netscape4. Subversion is intended to replace CVS, and it's core team is made up many of the people that currently maintain CVS. CVS has really reached the end of its life cycle; its really showing its age, and it just doesn't make sense to extend it anymore. No, this is not a "CVS is dying" post, but anyone who has adminned it has been frustrated with it from time to time, and Subversion aims to remedy that. They're keeping what's good about CVS and replacing the bad with better things based on decades of experience with CVS and improvements in the SCM field in general.

    This is intended to be a replacement for CVS. No less, and no more (for the "more", see some of the more experimental SCM stuff like Tom Lord's arch).

  13. MOD PARENT DOWN: OVERRATED by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    Seriously, buddy, don't use your +1 bonus when you're one of the first 10 comments, not to mention making a pointless post.

    1. Re:MOD PARENT DOWN: OVERRATED by Peyna · · Score: 2

      Who cares either way? Your post was more pointless than mine, and this one is even more pointless. I used my +1 bonus because the person implied SourceSafe was a good alternative, when I think that pricetag makes it not an alternative at all for most people, especially those working on open source projects.

      Besides, so many people post at +2 now, you almost have to hope to be heard above the noise. I browse at 3 most of the time, I'm sure many other people do too.

      --
      What?
    2. Re:MOD PARENT DOWN: OVERRATED by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I (the AC you're responding to) actually browse at five unless a story is either brand new or something of great interest to me. My point was that so early in the game, you don't *need* to post at 2 to be read by anyone.

    3. Re:MOD PARENT DOWN: OVERRATED by Peyna · · Score: 2

      Actually, I usually forget I post at 2. I wish there was an option in the settings to always post at 1, but there isn't, so I have to remember to check "No Score +1 Bonus" whenever I want to post lower. I would rather it be the other way. Always post at 1, and have to manually decide to post higher. I usually type, then tab,tab,tab,enter real quick.

      --
      What?
    4. Re:MOD PARENT DOWN: OVERRATED by frankie · · Score: 1
      I wish there was an option in the settings to always post at 1

      There is. Go to your Comment Preferences and scroll down to the bottom section.

    5. Re:MOD PARENT DOWN: OVERRATED by Peyna · · Score: 2

      It must be new, I checked quite awhile ago and it wasn't there.

      --
      What?
  14. Will Subversion guarantee backwards compatability? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I would use it, but I fear they might change the revision file format. Will the Subversion team give a soft guarantee that they will remain as backwards compatable as possible?

  15. Hello by poopbot by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    Introduction

    A fairy gives lectures on morality to the feline anomaly. Furthermore, another photon near an abstraction takes a coffee break, and a mortician buries a blithe spirit. The wedding dress secretly admires a college-educated ball bearing. If the freight train figures out a fire hydrant near a pit viper, then some mating ritual beyond another cowboy reads a magazine. Any squid can find lice on a freight train, but it takes a real recliner to ostensibly plan an escape from another pit viper defined by a prime minister a cough syrup toward a graduated cylinder.

    Another mating ritual

    For example, a blood clot about a turn signal indicates that a financial bartender borrows money from a warranty. When a demon is imaginative, a paper napkin secretly admires an often snooty graduated cylinder. If the grain of sand learns a hard lesson from the short order cook behind some graduated cylinder, then another blithe spirit flies into a rage. Any pig pen can lazily require assistance from a burly plaintiff, but it takes a real fighter pilot to caricature the steam engine over a satellite. Another eagerly temporal minivan slyly buries the obsequious squid, or a briar patch usually gives lectures on morality to a cyprus mulch.

    A gratifying fairy

    Sometimes another cashier reads a magazine, but the fraction for the cyprus mulch always buries a power drill toward the demon! The light bulb befriends a satellite of an apartment building. A lazily Alaskan roller coaster sanitizes another mitochondrial traffic light, or some burglar eats a hesitantly smelly plaintiff. For example, a seldom righteous traffic light indicates that an ocean knows some chestnut inside the tabloid. If the earring somewhat finds subtle faults with a pine cone, then the wheelbarrow hibernates.

    The cocker spaniel about the salad dressing

    For example, the umbrella toward an abstraction indicates that the dolphin near a ball bearing caricatures a girl scout near some diskette. A cocker spaniel for the judge reads a magazine, and a pine cone finds subtle faults with a rattlesnake. Furthermore, the hairy movie theater returns home, and a grizzly bear near a paycheck is a big fan of a childlike burglar. For example, a canyon living with a graduated cylinder indicates that the industrial complex buries a jersey cow.

    Conclusions

    A squid around a jersey cow meditates, and another nation sweeps the floor; however, a scooby snack knowingly finds subtle faults with an apartment building living with another chain saw. When a hockey player around a paycheck is smelly, a minivan has a change of heart about an oil filter about an asteroid. The bartender around a polygon is barely soggy. Indeed, another rattlesnake befriends a warranty. Indeed, the carpet tack for an abstraction usually caricatures an elusive h

    - posted by poopbot: information likes to be narrow

    GJcHuqx2eT Post #701

  16. Thanks by wichtolosaurus · · Score: 1

    Currently working on a project completely relying on ClearCase(tm) configuration management, I am glad if anyone in the world hacks just a single line of code to improve the way we work with source control.

    1. Re:Thanks by mccalli · · Score: 2
      Currently working on a project completely relying on ClearCase(tm) configuration management...

      Be interested to hear what problems you're having. I used ClearCase in one of my jobs, and thought it was really rather good.

      Cheers,
      Ian

    2. Re:Thanks by renehollan · · Score: 2

      What so bad about ClearCase? Well, yeah, the learning curve is steep, and licenses are expensive, and it is not free, but I've always found it to be a powerful tool (albeit easily abused) for advanced source code control, particularly when dealing with multiple branches/forks of a common code base.

      --
      You could've hired me.
    3. Re:Thanks by wichtolosaurus · · Score: 1

      ClearCase(tm) is a pretty neat tool, no doubt.
      Working on a medium to large project with it is a good choice.
      But if you're out to get a huge project going, it's getting complicated. I'm talking about multi-site development. You just have to take so much attention, it will eat away a pretty large amount of time.
      Not to mention the terror an unexperienced or badly trained engineer can cause.

    4. Re:Thanks by mccalli · · Score: 1
      I'm talking about multi-site development.

      Ah yes, I remember now. We too had to use it for multi-site development, and the speed was awful. So we got into some sort of remote syncing, and that turned into a nightmare too...

      Yes. Now I recognise what you mean.

      Cheers,
      Ian

    5. Re:Thanks by Luyseyal · · Score: 2

      I haven't used ClearCase, but I'm wondering if something like arch or BitKeeper with native support for distributed trees wouldn't help some of these central-server merging problems?

      curious,
      -l

      --
      Help cure AIDS, cancer, and more. Donate your unused computer time to worldcommunitygrid.org. Join Team Slashdot!
    6. Re:Thanks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What's so bad about it? At one of my previous job, nobody could check anything in for a month after we switched to ClearCase. Development ground to a complete halt. Admittedly, this was in part the result of incompetent sysadmins and inadequate testing prior to deployment, but it's also partly the result of ClearCase sucking. The hardware and special-configuration requirements to support even a small shop (~40 developers) were so steep that nobody believed them. If anybody had, we would never have bought a product that required us to redo our entire IT infrastructure to suit their needs instead of them adapting to ours.

      If you have a ClearCase installation that works, buy your sysadmins a drink. At the semantic and interface levels it's pretty good, really, but at the implementation and resource levels it BLOWS CHUNKS.

  17. Subversion installation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I've been thinking about installing a server for testing - we use CVS here and Subversion might well be nicer. Only problem is the amount of bits and pieces it seems to use - it is actually difficult to set up, given its dependence on a WebDAV module (yes, I want networking), a couple of portability libs and stuff?

  18. way to go by TTimo · · Score: 1

    Way to go to the subversion guys
    faster, better overall design, extendable, seamless integration with apache .. still gotta give it a few months to get finalized, but it's looking really good.

  19. Hello by poopbot by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    Introduction

    The cheese wheel inexorably avoids contact with the paycheck. The steam engine goes deep sea fishing with an often outer ski lodge. When the cyprus mulch over a vacuum cleaner hides, a ball bearing gets stinking drunk.

    The tornado

    For example, a submarine behind a class action suit indicates that the optimal fairy satiates an Alaskan recliner. When a mitochondrial bottle of beer is thoroughly dirt-encrusted, a most difficult blood clot underhandedly writes a love letter to a defendant. An earring pees on the cashier over some globule, but the pathetic crane sells another vacuum cleaner behind a scythe to a false wheelbarrow. If a chess board defined by a grain of sand makes love to a crispy cyprus mulch, then a particle accelerator flies into a rage.

    A Eurasian globule

    The feline minivan earns frequent flier miles, and the buzzard defined by a ball bearing trembles; however, a senator living with the girl scout learns a hard lesson from the inferiority complex. Any chain saw can try to seduce the particle accelerator, but it takes a real salad dressing to play pinochle with the inexorably precise paycheck. Furthermore, another seldom load bearing defendant flies into a rage, and a paycheck around a light bulb seeks a roller coaster around another bartender. If a crank case makes love to the diskette, then the squid toward a mortician meditates. Now and then, an insurance agent thoroughly avoids contact with a pompous turkey.

    A microscope

    Most people believe that an orbiting diskette trades baseball cards with a movie theater, but they need to remember how secretly a statesmanlike short order cook wakes up. A paternal roller coaster is usually financial. When the accurately varigated hole puncher takes a coffee break, a slyly smelly garbage can earns frequent flier miles. For example, the phony cheese wheel indicates that the tornado near a fruit cake hesitantly gives lectures on morality to a salad dressing defined by the corporation. The carpet tack near a cargo bay, some parking lot toward a warranty, and a stovepipe beyond a freight train are what made America great!

    Conclusions

    A judge beyond the briar patch laughs and drinks all night with the snooty chestnut. A raspy burglar conquers a bowling ball. For example, another plaintiff toward a bartender indicates that the ski lodge behind a fairy finds lice on a burglar. If some rattlesnake toward a cheese wheel can be kind to a blood clot, then the elusive movie theater self-flagellates. When a photon related to a turkey is most difficult, a self-loathing bottle of beer falls in love with a pickup truck living with the paycheck.

    - posted by poopbot: because we're all crapflooders at heart

    Oiqb1AKPvC Post #702

  20. while we're at it, let's burn our Makefiles too by soundsop · · Score: 2, Interesting

    While we're considering throwing away CVS, let's also throw out make. Check out Scons, a replacement for make. I have been using it for a few months on small projects and it's shaping up to be a really great tool.

    Burn your Makefiles!

    1. Re:while we're at it, let's burn our Makefiles too by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      Also, check out jam. It's by the same people that brought you perforce.

    2. Re:while we're at it, let's burn our Makefiles too by smagoun · · Score: 4, Interesting
      ...and there's always ant, from the folks over at jakarta.apache.org. It's aimed at java development, but can be used with other languages as well.

      Ant has some pretty cool features (and a few misfeatures, sadly), but it's really caught on in Java-land.

    3. Re:while we're at it, let's burn our Makefiles too by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There is also cons while you are at it.

    4. Re:while we're at it, let's burn our Makefiles too by e2d2 · · Score: 2

      Nant has also caught on in the c# world. It's basically a .net port of ant.

      We are moving our visual studio build to Nant because it works with our Nunit tests and can do everything we need automatically. We have used both nmake (make) and VS to accomplish builds in the past but have had to overcome a few difficulties in large builds that hopefully this will solve. We'll see but using ant in the past for my java projects I am hopeful. Using nmake simply was to error prone on large builds, we don't like finding that our build failed because of whitespace problems, and VS was simply to unreliable for us (your own results may vary). We still use vs.net to build our custom installer, but we call it from the cmd line using Nant.

      Tying the whole process in to a source control app like subversion or cvs (which we currently use) would benefit us. Hopefully someone will write a .Net cruise control or it' equal for the .Net platform. That would allow the build process to get the latest files from our repository for the build.

    5. Re:while we're at it, let's burn our Makefiles too by iabervon · · Score: 2

      I never figured out a way to get ant to reliably compile a Java project correctly. It uses the javac dependancy engine, which is specified in a broken way (the rules in the specification don't actually mean that compiling the classes it finds as needing recompilation is the same as compiling from scratch).

      After using ant for a while at my work, we decided that it was the most common cause of people checking in broken code (which hadn't caused a problem for the author) and incorrect builds, and switched to make (with a python script to find java dependancies correctly).

      The other problem with ant was (at the time, at least), there was no way to avoid running a program because it could be determined that it was unnecessary. This made trying to use EJB with a container that required an EJB compiler practically impossible, because we had a 20 minute build cycle, even when the ejbc step wasn't necessary.

    6. Re:while we're at it, let's burn our Makefiles too by TTimo · · Score: 1

      cons and scons are awesome tools. incredibly powerful and effortless compared to gnu make.

      now that I have switched a number of my projects to cons/scons and used the tools for a few months, I don't see myself writing a makefile ever again

    7. Re:while we're at it, let's burn our Makefiles too by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hint hint: build.compiler = jikes

    8. Re:while we're at it, let's burn our Makefiles too by iabervon · · Score: 2

      Make is actually quite nice if you use a little trick: have only one Makefile. Have that Makefile include a file from each directory that contains variable definitions. That way, you separate the code from the data, meaning that you don't need to automatically generate the Makefiles (since you don't change them for each project and directory), so the Makefiles can be readable.

      You can also do some really interesting things with conditionals and what amounts to iterative includes. I have a set of Makefiles totalling 315 lines which will accurately do exactly the steps needed to rebuild a program if any source file changes, regardless of which directory the file is in, and can be run from any directory in the tree. If nothing has changed, make says nothing except "'target' is up to date". It wasn't terribly hard to do.

    9. Re:while we're at it, let's burn our Makefiles too by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0


      Nant [sourceforge.net] has also caught on in the c# world. It's basically a .net port of ant.

      Does anyone else see this trend as being really bad?

      The very idea of a language specific make tool is fine and dandy as long as you are doing something pretty simple.

      What happens when you need to set up build scripts for a tree that contains java, c, (some generic/unix, some requiring a win16 compiler and some requiring a win32 compiler) c++, c#, visual basic Microsoft help (in english and japanese) and TEX? There are common parts of the tree that must build on NT, Solaris, AIX and HP-UX

      This is not a fantasy. I've had to do it (with the exception of C#, but that will come)

      It seems like Ant (and now Nant) are short sighted solutions to a few historical problems with make. It makes no sense to have a make tool that favors one language or another.

      Make is a fine tool for the easy parts of the build, and I've found Perl to be powerful, portable and flexible enough to handle things when the build gets hairy.

      Maybe what we really need is Pant (Perl based ant) or a new Make that has enhanced integration with Perl rather than a make system that favors one religio^H^H^H^H^H^H^H language over another.

    10. Re:while we're at it, let's burn our Makefiles too by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The single-Makefile approach is pretty well-defined in Peter Miller's classic paper Recursive Make Considered Harmful. The technique works well and is very reliable for simple build situations, but it has some scalability problems when you try to apply it to large, complex projects with a lot of variants to build.

      The basic issue is that any solution that uses a single Makefile with a lot of included subsidiaries relies on a lot of ad-hoc macro conventions to pass values back and forth between the files. Again, this works fine, but the macro manipulation gets really tricky and not easily extensible when you have to add new build variations. You end up having to pull apart your macro conventions and gluing them back together over and over and over, adding more complexity each time.

      You'll end up saving a lot of Makefile-hacking time if you go from the beginning with one of the many more modern build tools that are designed from the ground up with complex builds in mind.

    11. Re:while we're at it, let's burn our Makefiles too by e2d2 · · Score: 2

      Nant doesn't favor one language, I just happen to use mainly c#. You could easily modify either ant or nant to build projects in other languages. Actually Nant has a task built in to compile using the VB.net and C++ compiler along with various other tasks just like make. Our builds include c++, c#, MS help files, and an MS installer.

      Make is fine, but like I said we are searching for something a little more friendly.

    12. Re:while we're at it, let's burn our Makefiles too by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thats very interesting. how do you do that?

    13. Re:while we're at it, let's burn our Makefiles too by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Does anyone else see this trend as being really bad?

      I agree. Having to modify Ant/Nant to build something other than Java/C# (see other reply from e2d2) is not an answer.

      Maybe what we really need is Pant (Perl based ant) or a new Make that has enhanced integration with Perl...

      This is essentially what Cons is, modulo the config files being Perl scripts instead of XML. (A good thing, IMHO.) The drawback is that Cons isn't very easy to extend, an architectural flaw that's being corrected by SCons. As soon as SCons adds support for Java and C# (oh, all right, and Visual Basic help), it will have the basic requirements for your build scenario well in hand.

    14. Re:while we're at it, let's burn our Makefiles too by obsidian+head · · Score: 1

      Hell yeah! Javac is so broken, and for being so unoptimized its not even a great reference implementation.

    15. Re:while we're at it, let's burn our Makefiles too by iabervon · · Score: 2

      I have it at http://iabervon.org/~barkalow/make.tar.gz if you'd like to take a look. Obviously, it's tuned to the way I have my project arranged, but it shouldn't be hard to apply the principles to another project. The "explanation" file is a bit out of date, in that the system actually does some of the wishlist items.

    16. Re:while we're at it, let's burn our Makefiles too by iabervon · · Score: 2

      I believe you're misunderstanding my use of includes. I'm suggesting using them for two purposes: (1) read simple files out of each directory which explain the contents of the directory as a set of readable variable definitions and (2) share code and have loops and subroutines in a tight set of scripts written together.

      Build variations should be refactored until they come down to, essentially, "which parts of the code do I build". Then, based on simple cues from the user, you can build the right things.

      My non-recursive make is for a project which has about nineteen targets which are either binaries or libraries; the one which is build depends on which directory you invoke make from. There is a make target to make a distribution, which includes everything needed for the target in the current directory and can be build from the root of the distribution.

      The scalability issue is not with the number of build variations but with the number of types of build variations. Having a lot of dissimilar build variations is just a mess, regardless of what you're using to build with.

    17. Re:while we're at it, let's burn our Makefiles too by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      iabervon--

      (with a python script to find java dependencies correctly)

      Please contact the SCons developers about this at: scons-devel@lists.sourceforge.net

      We want very much to add Java support to SCons soon, and will need this functionality for our automatic dependency analysis. It would be great not to have to reinvent that wheel... Thanks!

    18. Re:while we're at it, let's burn our Makefiles too by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Jikes has a lot of unfortunate bugs though. I used it for months and then ran into problems where it would assert on valid source files. Tried 1.1.6 but while it fixed the original problem, several other regressions showed up. Should have 1.1.7 soon though since they were evidently a bit embarassed about the 1.1.6 problems.

  21. Oh good, It's just a software story by Gil+Da+Janus · · Score: 1
    For a moment there - seeing just the headline, I thought that the scientists were planning a revolt on the ISS.

    Thank goodness, the last thing we need are some subverted scientists doing whatever in LEO!

    Gil, just being a peanut gallery member

    --
    -- Where ever you go, don't complain, you went there!
  22. Pink page of death!! by poopbot by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    Either your network or ip address has been banned from this site

    due to script flooding that originated from your network or ip address -- or this IP might have been used to post comments designed to break web browser rendering. If you feel that this is unwarranted, feel free to include your IP address (1.2.3.4) in the subject of an email, and we will examine why there is a ban. If you fail to include the IP address (again, in the Subject!), then your message will be deleted and ignored. I mean come on, we're good, we're not psychic.
    Since you can't read the FAQ because you're banned, here's the relevant portion:

    Why is my IP banned?
    Â Perhaps you are running some sort of program that loaded thousands of Slashdot Pages. We have limited resources here and are fairly protective of them. We need to make sure that everyone shares. If your IP loads thousands of pages in a day, you will likely be banned. Please note that many proxy servers load large quantities of pages, but we can usually distinguish between proxy servers being used by humans, and IPs running software that is hammering our servers.

    Â Your IP might have been used to perform some sort of denial of service attack against Slashdot. These range from simple programs that just load a lot of pages, to programs that attempt to coordinate an avalanche of posts in the forums (often through misconfigured "Open Relay" proxy servers).

    Â You might be using a proxy server that is also being used by another person who did something from the above list. You should have your proxy server administrator contact us.

    Â Your IP might have been used to post comments designed to break web browser rendering.

    Answered by: CmdrTaco
    Last Modified: 7/02/02

    How do I get an IP Unbanned?
    Email banned@slashdot.org. Make sure to include the IP in question, and any other pertinent information. If you are connecting through a proxy server, you might need to have your proxy server's admin contact us instead of you.

    Answered by: CmdrTaco
    Last Modified: 3/26/02

    - posted by poopbot: the bot formerly known as pwpbot

    A9shPQbWNv Post #704

  23. Go lads! Go! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm this very moment in the background using CVS to perform multiple branches a rather large source tree. I also spent a big chunk of yesterday removing/adding things just to do an essential directory rename.

    Subversion sounds like a sweet tool and addresses most of the concerns I have about CVS. Congratulations on your milestone chaps.

  24. [on by] A modest proposal by poopbot by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    It seems that the Janitors, in their infinite wisdom, have banned people who have low/negative karma from posting more than twice per day. Personally I find this completely stupid.

    All the trolls will simply post AC as I am doing now. Proxies can be used to get around any ipid bans that result from AC trolls.

    Surely it is better to let the trolls post at -1 where it is out of most peoples way rather than have them all post at 0 and suck up mod points and time from "legit" users?

    I have tried to communicate my thoughts to the slashcode team but alas, to no avail. They are probably all sittin on their starwars bed sheets watching anime hentai tentacle rape pr0n.

    Here is my proposal: All trolls that cannot post using their account post as AC. Use proxies if need be (www.antiproxy.com is a good source). I suspect this will show them how useless this idea is. Will blocking troll uid's stop trolls? NO! will ipid bans stop trolls? NO!

    I seriously fail to see the point of this and consider it a stupid move by the janitors.

    They want us to troll and crapflood at 0 rather than -1? Fine! So be it! No longer will we post at -1 where few people dare to visit, now we will post at 0 where we will be more visible and waste peoples time, energy and mod points! Hoorah!

    The next thing you know, posting AC will be banned! Then what will you do? No more posting interesting insider tidbits! Groupthink all the way baby! oh yeah!

    So logout, post shit, use proxies and above all have fun!

    Let the games begin! -- on by

    - posted by poopbot: because we're all crapflooders at heart

    r1VOKiqqxa Post #705

  25. comparisons by alyosha1 · · Score: 1

    Are there any good resources out there that compare available source control systems? My group is currently stuck on Visual Source Safe, but open to the idea of switching. I tried the trial version of bitkeeper, which looked pretty good though with a somewhat steep learning curve. The license was somewhat confusing as well. Basically anything that gives you visual merges/compares, lets multiple developers work on a project easily, and doesn't require you to run the "Analyse and Fix" tool weekly would be good...

    1. Re:comparisons by gbevin · · Score: 1

      Personally I've switched all my projects to Subversion. It's simply the easiest to use and most versalite SCM software that I've ever used. The price is also great since as long as you participate in open logging you don't have to pay.
      Before I was using AccuRev and besides the fact that it's not distributed it's a marvel (http://www.accurev.com). The gui tools are excellent and the support team is very helpful.

      --
      Geert Bevin
    2. Re:comparisons by wscott · · Score: 1

      Perhaps you should have previewed that post at little longer? :-)

    3. Re:comparisons by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

      Perslaps he should have.

    4. Re:comparisons by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You may want to look at the OVUM report on SCM. It is costly but contains lots of information on many different SCM tools. http://www.ovum.com/go/product/flyer/CMT.htm

  26. Do we need complex acronyms? by poopbot by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    Credits: dmg

    Yet again the Linux so-called elite, backed up by their pseudo intellectual cohorts of the w3c conspire to ruin Linux's chances in the marketplace by sowing confusion and complexity. As someone with years of experience in the marketing world, I am constantly amazed at the willingness of the W3C and other bodies to pollute the acronym space with their content free "TLAs".

    Basic marketing 101 (and an undergrad course in psychology) would tell them that the normal person is only capable of remembering approximately 7 items of data in their short-term memory, but now we have to remember HTTP, HTML, XML, XSL, DTD, PHP, SSL, DSL, ADSL, ISDN, Perl, etc etc etc

    This is a text book example of the tail wagging the dog from a marketing perspective.

    I have been following the standardisation of the web for many many months now, but one thing has become clear, E-commerce will NEVER become popular so long as there are so many confusing acronyms involved. The guys in charge of marketing Linux absolutely MUST work to reduce the number of acronyms. One possible solution would be to merge those protocols which are not all that different. For example, why not merge XML with SGML ? (they could call it XSGML or SXGML or perhaps XMSGML), they seem to address the same problems. Or would that be too simplistic a solution for their pampered elitist ivy-league minds to comprehend ?

    If something is not done URGENTLY, and I mean URGENTLY, Linux (and other more experimental derivatives such as FreeBSD) can never hope to be taken seriously as an e-commerce platform by the people who count - the accountants.

    The miracle of Linux is that anyone actually runs it at all, considering one seems to require a masters in computer science to install it! (contrast this with NT4 which was so easy to install, we let our receptionist upgrade her own machine).

    As usual my "open source" advice is free. Hopefully this time my valuable advice will be taken into account the next time the w3c smell an acronym brewing.

    Finally, in conclusion, as an American, I am saddened that the Internet seems to have been commandeered by a European based protocol. Was America so short of talent we had to buy the HTML protocol from Tom Berners-Lee at CERN ?

    Think of the security implications of the worlds strongest economy, running an e-commerce protocol developed by a foreigner from Socialist Europe. Remember the wall has not been down for that long. Who knows what kind of trojans might be lurking within the depths of these complicated protocols.

    I am afraid I am behind Al Gore on this point, how can this be necessary in the home of smart corporations such as Microsoft and Intel ? The answer is the vast subsidies given by European socialist governments to fund development of the HTML specification.

    The solution is clear. The federal government should mandate and strongly subsidise the use of Microsoft software for all US corporations involved in e-commerce. Only with a US-developed set of protocols can we be assured of the security of our transactions.

    - posted by poopbot: for the crapflooder in all of us

    mDWaBJHTAN Post #706

  27. NOT!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    Loser.

  28. IRC! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Oh also, come and celebrate on the IRC channel .. OPN #svn

    irc://irc.openprojects.net/opn

    1. Re:IRC! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      err crap, I can't type..
      irc://irc.openprojects.net/svn

  29. Censordot!! by poopbot by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    Version 1.1.8 (last updated 19th July 2002 by Anonymous Coward)

    Note to moderators : Do not moderate this post down, if you do then you support the editors stance on censorship and you support the end of free speech and support evil organisations like Microsoft, RIAA, MPAA and laws like the CBTBA and DMCA

    Sign this petition, let your voice be heard!

    Slashdot is using censorship! It is trying to eridicate free and open discussion like we know slashdot to be, it has the following RESTRICTIONS in place to Censor you

    They claim they don't, but they do, wonder why their are so many trolls, crapflooders and lamers on slashdot, because they are fighting for their rights! Slashdot is trying to silence the trolls. Remove the filters, the trolls get bored, and slashdot will be troll free!
    • Lameness filters (It blocks a lot of legitmate posts)
    • Unnessary posting delays. Hasnt taco learned to touch type? A lot of posts are typed in less than 20 seconds and it is a ANNOYING DELAY! 2 minute ban? Come on, so some are faster then others, big deal, some people have more to say than others
    • Broken moderation system, The whole point is to sort the gems from the crap, yet a lot of posts designed to make a LIVELY DISCUSSION are MODERATED as flamebait! Come on, not everyone likes X, but just because some one bashes it dosent mean its Flamebait. Flame bait is more useful for DIRECT INSULTS and not legitmate discussions.
    The "troll" moderation reason is fragmented and broken, why? Because they are trying to use an obsolete usenet term on a realtime discussion, "trolls" can cover a huge blanket of ideas.
    • Crapfloods, a meaningless flood of random letters or text, which the lameness filter does a crappy job at trying to stop, besides trolls have written tools using the opensource slashcode to generate crapfloods which bypass the filter
    • Links to offensive websites, the most common one is known a http://www.goatse.cx, a awful site which shows a bleeding anus being stretched on the front page. Trolls sneak these links in by posting messages that look legitimate, but infact are sneaky redirects to the site. Common examples include rd.yahoo.com, www.linux-kernel.tk, goatsex.cjb.net, and googles "Im feeling lucky".
    • Trying to break slashdot, this is actually a good thing, as it helps test slashdot for bugs. Famous examples include the goatse.cx javascript pop-up, the pagewidening post and the browser crashing post!
    Subnet banning, this bans a user unless they email jamie macarthy with their mp5ed ipids. This is unfair, and banning a subnet BLOCKS A WHOLE ISP SOMETIMES, and not that individual user! This can cause chaos! But real trolls use annoymous proxys to get around this so THIS JUST BANS LEGITMATE USERS! Also, they are trying to censor some anoymous proxies, mainly from countrys like africa, so this yet more DISCRIMINATION!

    But, the issue that concerens us the most, is the COMMENT QUOTA. A discrimatory system that stiffles discussion, cripples the community and will ultimateley destroy slashdot unless it is removed! Annoymous cowards are allowed only 10 posts a day! This is unethical! Users with negative karma only get two! That is DISCRIMINATION! How would you like to only be able to speak once a day, just because of the color of your skin. That would be racism, and slashdot is discrimitating on people just because of a negative number in a database! BOYCOTT SLASHDOT! LET THEM DIE!

    We wan't these stupid useless restrictions REMOVED! This comment will be posted again and again until it does!

    Inportant imformation for users
    Boycott slashdot, they are pissing over their community, they are becoming like the RIAA and MICROSOFT! Do NOT TOLERATE THIS SHIT! Here are some real news for nerds sites. We don't need slashdot, slashdot deserves to die!

    MSNBC
    BBC NEWS
    News.com
    Linux online
    Linux daily news network [linuxdailynews.net]
    Weird news from dailyrotten.com
    Trollaxor, news for trolls, they are real people too!
    CNN.com
    New york times (free registration required)
    LINUX.com
    News forge
    K5
    Mandrake forum
    Toms hardware
    The register
    Kde dot news
    The linux kernel Archives
    Adequecy

    There are hundreds more, But this is where slashdot STEALS THE MAJORITY OF its "news" from.

    Punish them, here are their emails, spam them, flame them goatse them!
    Rob malda
    Jamie Macarthy
    ChrisD
    Hemos
    Micheal
    Pudge

    The others ones apperantly dont have an e-mail, probably because ROB MALDA IS PRETENDING HE IS JOHN KATZ.

    Thank you for reading this, please feel free to repost this information, please reply to add your comments, fight slashdot and its CENSORSHIP

    Don't forget to sign the petition!

    - posted by poopbot: the bot formerly known as pwpbot

    Wqt6Fdsv3G Post #707
  30. That's obvious!! by Outland+Traveller · · Score: 5, Informative

    What is so bad about clearcase? From my point of view what *isn't* bad about clearcase is an easier question. Here's my hot list:

    1. Needs kernel modifications in order to work. PROFOUNDLY STUPID. It's always an adventure trying to get clearcase to work with any recent linux kernel, and forget trying to keep current with kernel security patches.

    2. "Filesystem" style sharing does not scale well outside of a high speed, local network. If your developers are distributed around the internet you need to use clearcase's horrible hack "snapshot" views, or shell out ridiculous amounts of money and complexity to implement multisite. It's very difficult from a performance and a security standpoint to use clearcase over a low-speed VPN.

    3. Good GUI administration tools are windows-only. While rational could have created cross platform admin tools when they ported their product to Windows, they didn't. Instead they rewrote their admin tools to be windows only, added many new features, and now the windows tools are 200X more usable than their unix equivalents. When I pressed irRational when the unix tools would be similarly improved they gave the patronizing answer that unix customer's don't want good admin tools. Sounds like a self fullfilling prophesy to me. The unix GUI tools are so awful that it is easier to use the command line! Thus, irRational insures that unix shops with clearcase will always have a brick-wall style learning curve.

    4. Vobs don't scale well, especially when you version large binary files, like media. You have to manually tune how many vobs to use and how large to make them.

    5. Relies on automounting and persistent filesystem connections for day-to-day work. This design is inferior to a more traditional client-server TCP/IP app in terms of both performance and robustness.

    6. Lack of commitment to the unix platform. iRational has stopped future development on their unix bug tracking software (DDTS) in favor of a MS-ACCESS backed solution. A large majority of new clearcase features are windows-only. You would think that Rational would be a cross platform company, but they are not. They make platform-specific solutions for multiple platforms, most of them purchased from some other company and poorly maintained.

    7. Extremely high maintenance costs, not just in the licensing but in the dedicated personel needed to throw their careers away doing nothing but babysitting the vobs and views.

    If you're buying a proprietary CMS the last thing you should consider is iRational clearcase. Try bitkeeper or perforce and you'll be much happier.

    1. Re:That's obvious!! by Feign+Ram · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Kee -Rect ! The VFS used by Clearcase while providing a lot of it's cool features is also responsible for many drawbacks, including some of the ones you mention.

      Scalability is the biggest downstream issue any manager has to consider before choosing Clearcase. It is extremely resource hungry and I used to work for a small company that deployed a Sun Enterprise server to support CLearcase for just 10-15 developers. Get ready with barrels of memory - shticks and drives.

      The Steep learning curve is not something that u can wish away in a production environment.

      In spite of all this, I remain fond of Clearcase - It was the first Version Control/Configuration System I used seriously and haven't found anything even remotely similar in terms of functionality. I felt like vomiting when I first used CVS after 4 years of CVS. Another nice feature is it integrates nicely with other Rational products like ClearDDTS the bug tracking system - Against a specific ticket you can check the list of related checkins/checkouts.

      It was originally developed by a company called Atria and was later taken over by Rational.

      And don't forget multisite. A Pig it is - but it provided lot of value for money, especially to comapnies that could afford it.

    2. Re:That's obvious!! by Bryan+Ischo · · Score: 2

      "I felt like vomiting when I first used CVS after 4 years of [Clearcase]."

      That's funny ... because I felt like vomiting when I first used Clearcase after 4 years of CVS. Even the vague memories I have of Clearcase make me queasy just to think about ...

      At my current job we use Perforce, which, although it has its own problems, is quite alot better than either CVS or Clearcase.

      But subversion looks really good ... can't wait to play with it ... (I can't believe I'm excited about version control, if that's not the definition of a geek I don't know what is!) ...

    3. Re:That's obvious!! by AlanMJones · · Score: 1


      1. Clearcase is admittedly new to Linux, but as for kernel modifications if you don't build your Linux kernel with what an application needs then yes of course you have to rebuild it with them if you want to run the application.

      2. Yes Clearcase does require good connections if you plan to see all the updates in real time. But seeing updates in real time without a developer's manual or scheduled update of the local workspace is a benefit that not offered with many other systems.

      3. Yes the windows GUI tools are better even in the latest versions of Clearcase. Windows users use them more than command line, many Unix users use command line more. I work with vobs hosted on Unix and accessible from both Unix and NT. The best of both worlds.

      4. If you choose to check in large numbers of similar binary files that aren't diff'able then of course you're going to have to use lots of space. You don't have to do that to use the configuration record saving features of Clearcase. You have to tune only if you want great performance even though you went that unnecessary route.

      5. The design allows a workspace to look just like a filesystem even though it can be manipulated by file version without changing the files you've modified. I can't speak to _how_ "inferior" it may be to TCP/IP but neither did you - you just said it was.

      6. I thought we were talking about Clearcase, not issue and defect tracking tools. The DDTS replacement Clearquest can use Oracle instead of Access. All features that aren't GUI related are provided on both Unix and Windows.

      7. Yes it costs money. It's a good product. It has features that can make parallel development easier than other source control tools. The people "babysitting" the vobs should be facilitating the developers. The vobs do their job with no help.

      I don't work for Rational but I love Clearcase.

      If you are in a small shop anything will do. If you want developers in 3 cities across the US to work together on the same project only Clearcase will do.

    4. Re:That's obvious!! by axxackall · · Score: 1

      ALL Rational software products are designed so bad that I even doubt that there is any help from UML. Or is it that OOD/OOP so useless?

      --

      Less is more !
    5. Re:That's obvious!! by Outland+Traveller · · Score: 1
      1. Clearcase is admittedly new to Linux, but as for kernel modifications if you don't build your Linux kernel with what an application needs then yes of course you have to rebuild it with them if you want to run the application.
      I don't think you understand the full meaning of the problem. There isn't any good reason why someone should mess with their their kernel to run a SCM *CLIENT*. The whole idea of this is off-the-charts idiotic. What makes it that much worse is that clearcase's kernel modifications are proprietary, and they only release them for certain older redhat kernels, and never the most up to date ones from any distribution. You're not easily able to use a custom kernel, as many people need to do for various driver support. You're also not easily able to add security patches to known vulnerabilities or even keep up with the maintenance kernel releases for your distribution. Furthermore, the clearcase modifications, because of their license taint the kernel hampering your community support for the rest of the OS.

      This situation is damning, and not just for Linux. The clearcase MVFS features do not justify the "mess with the kernel" architecture. Their filesystem interface should have been implemented in userspace.

      Reading your other points make me think that you haven't used SCM systems like perforce or bitkeeper. Your last line, " If you want developers in 3 cities across the US to work together on the same project only Clearcase will do." does not make any sense. Clearcase is a miserable choice for distributed development. It works, but in an ugly, brute force, memorize a stack of manuals, override all the normal unix commands, spend-a-fortune, have a department tuning and fixing it constantly type of way. As someone who has used many different systems, the clearcase way is so much more painful there is no comparision at all with modern alternatives.

      The only people I see using clearcase now are companies that bought into it a decade ago when it was more competitive and have no idea what they are missing now, or small windows shops who are relieved that it is better than source safe.
    6. Re:That's obvious!! by Outland+Traveller · · Score: 1

      3. Yes the windows GUI tools are better even in the latest versions of Clearcase. Windows users use them more than command line, many Unix users use command line more. I work with vobs hosted on Unix and accessible from both Unix and NT. The best of both worlds. The right answer to "Should it provide a command line interface or a GUI" is of course "Both". Command line tools are excellent for scripting and for situations where all you need/want is a terminal interface. However, there is no denying that a GUI is an easier interface to learn, if for no other reason than the window visually encpasulates the functionality of the app much better than an off-line list of commands. As I said in the previous message, the clearcase GUI tools on unix are so awful that it visually hurts to use them. It looks like a summer intern wrote them in his spare time. It doesn't follow that because unix users hate bad GUIs, they therefore hate good GUIs.

      In today's world there is no reason rational could not have made their rewritten GUI admin tools cross platform. There's the QT library, there's JAVA, there's web browsers, and those are just the solutions that pop off the top of my head. Instead, they doggedly rewrite for one platform only and say that they have no plans to port the new tools to the other platforms. What kind of crap is this? I have a sneaking suspicion that the windows clearcase server and unix clearcase server are not even intercompatible with each other's clients.

      This is the kind of marketing decision that occurs when a company is so obsessed with short term growth that they compromise their core competencies. This has been the story of irRational across the board. Buy their products at your own risk.

  31. Goatsecxsy by poopbot by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    To the tune of "Without me", Eminem

    Two penis bird guys go round the outside, round the outside, round the outside (2x)
    Guess who's back [/] Back again [/] Sllort is back [/] Tell a friend
    Guess who's back, guess who's back, guess who's back, guess who's back
    guess who's back, guess who's back, guess who's back..

    I've created a monster, cause nobody wants to read Michael no more
    They want Sllort, cause Katz is a whore *duh* [/] Well if you want Sllort, this is what it'll get ya
    A little bit of Troll mixed up with some professa [/] Don't mod this up they're just trying to test ya
    It'll get you banned forever by the mastah [/] on the plantation, but I'm not co-operating
    Been banned since 2000 for writing and creating (hey!) [/] You read it this far, now stop moderating
    Cause I'm back, I'm on the keys and I'm operating [/] I know that you got a job Ms. Malda
    but your husband's porn problem's complicating
    So McCarthy won't let me be [/] he IP bans me, so let me see
    They try to shut me down but I proxy [/] Cause it feels so empty, without me
    So, clickety click, type where you sit
    Fuck that, karma whorin dips, nobody gives a shit
    Now get ready, cause this shit's about to get heavy
    Just got a new list of proxies, FUCK YOU JAMIE!

    [Chorus:]
    Now this looks like a job for me [/] DOWN WITH CAPS LIKE JUNIS KANUNI
    Cause we need a little, controversy [/] Cause it feels so empty to agree
    I said this looks like a job for me [/] So everybody, try honesty
    Cause we need a little, controversy [/] Cause it feels so empty to agree

    Little Readers, posting defacement. [/] Embarrassed their parents still rent them their basement.
    They get banned just like prisoners helpless [/] 'til someone posts truth in a journal and yells BULLSHIT!

    A visionary, is my vision scary? [/] Could it start revolution, pollutin the stories?
    A rebel, so just let me revel and gloat [/] in the fact that VA's stock price is looking like GOAT *zero!*
    And it's a disaster, such a castastrophe [/] First posts are so fuckin expensive; but Katz is free?
    Well I'm back, na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na [/] *bzzt* Fix your damn DSL turn it on and then I'm gonna
    enter in, in the front of your skin like a virus [/] Maybe I'm unkillable, dead like Osirus
    Ya I'm infecting, best thing since commenting [/] Intriuging the reader's minds and nesting
    *bzzt* Testing, attention please [/] You feel the rage when Michael mentions me?
    Here's my journal, you can read it free [/] A nuisance? a prophet? Ya, sounds like me.

    [Chorus]

    A diskette, a task set, post this cid on that sid, [/] Ask Slashdot: Are You Sofa King We Todd Did?
    Jonathon Katz, smokin crack mixed with grass [/] If I ever meet you I will KICK YOUR ASS
    And Taco? You can get blown by Timothy [/] You eleven year old molesting fag, join the clergy
    You don't know me, you're too dumb, let go [/] It's over, nobody listens to your show
    Now let's go, suicide for Signal [/] I'll be there cheering like a cheerleader on speed
    Or crystal, method to the masses [/] ever since Slashbots been babblin like jackasses *bray*

    Suddenly without the means [/] To bring up the MetaModeration screen?
    It's not the servers re-boot-ing [/] It's just you, banned by Slashteam! *hey*
    No I wasn't aiming for controversy [/] It just happened when they first banned me
    Now I use it to tell others [/] That Slashteam are a bunch of fuckers!
    (Hey!) Here's a concept that works [/] Twenty million other people find out you're jerks
    But no matter how much you alter what they see [/] It just looks empty without me

    [Chorus]
    La-la-la-la, la-la-la-la-la / La-la-la-la-la, la-la-la-la

    - posted by poopbot: crapflooding since 7/8/02

    fcLDAA43gd Post #708

  32. soo... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Which is better, OpenCM or Subversion ????

  33. Trans. From the Host Geek Pt. 1 by poopbot by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic
    Credits: BankOfAmerica_ATM

    SUBJECT: GREAT STOCK OPPORTUNITY!!! help me Get Big Brands on eBay I DON'T KNOW WHERE I AM! PENTIUM III CPU's IN STOCK
    Begin Fwded Message:

    If someone is listening out there, HELP! I'm trapped, and I don't know where I am. I know this sounds fucked up, but I started reading about this ATM 73.9GB SCSI SCA-2 LVD 3.5 X 1.6 80-PIN 5.7MS 4MB CACHE 10,000RPM HITACHI HARD DRIVE - $269.00 - only 1 left! ITEM#... DK31CJ-72MC http://www.hardwarest.com/product.asp?sku=DK31CJ%2 D72MC+&dept_id=7 online. Yeah, not like withdrawal or anything, but this was an actual ATM, and it was alive, and posting messages to this educational website that I visit from time to time.

    Pretty soon, I realized that not only was this ATM visiting the same site I liked, but (believe it or not) this ATM was conveniently located near me!!!!! is to take advantage of the current climate in the telecommunications industry!!!! In every industry downturn, opportunities can present themselves for a small aggressive company like GloboPhone to develop relations with corporations that have networks, infrastructure, and personnel but lack sufficient customers. This is GloboPhone's advantage.

    I don't have to tell you, this was no ordinary ATM. Actually this ATM had the power to transfer its consciousness into your mind. I know it sounds ridiculus, but...it used the magnetic strip to actually go inside your mind. Well like any computer lover I am always wanting to try the new technology, so If you are ready to become the biggest man you can be, then order your supply of Magna-RX+ today! See for yourself, what thousands of satisfied men (and their lovers) have already discovered: Magna-RX+ is the world's #1 Best-Selling Penis Enlargement Formula for one very simple reason: IT WORKS AND NOTHING ELSE CAN COMPARE! I went to where the ATM told me to (his inclosure) and swiped my card.

    I blacked out and when I awoke, I was in a new place. Yeah, that's right, the ATM had actually taken ahold of my body. It had done stuff like buy a bunch of magazines and alot of candy. It was like, he and I were different partitions on my brain's hard disk,. Anyway, he took control of my body in order to topple this great conspiracy called Project Faustois-an who doesn't want to stick it to the man? This is when all the trouble started...

    So now, after a few motnths of letting him use my body (although I quit for awhile) he's gone and done this to me. Normally I "wake up" from his using my body in a convenience store near my house, and it's no trouble getting home. But this time I'm trapped in We will be on the East Coast later this year.
    ---------------
    - Tuesday June 24, 6pm - 7:30pm


    Apple Store at South Coast Plaza, 3333 Bear St., Costa Mesa, CA 92626
    714-424-6331


    Mac Experts, 2300 Lincoln Blvd, Santa Monica, CA 90405
    310-581-1500
    ---------------
    - Tuesday July 9, 6pm - 7:30pm


    Apple Store at Fashion Island, 367 Newport Center Drive, Newport Beach, CA 92660
    949-729-4433
    ---------------
    - Tuesday July 16, 6pm - 7:30pm


    Apple Store at Northridge Fashion Center, 9301 Tampa Ave., Northridge, CA 91324
    818-709-2253
    ---------------
    - Tuesday July 23, 6pm - 7:30pm

    Apple Store at Glendale Galleria, 2148 Glendale Galleria, Glendale, CA 91210
    818-502-8310
    trapped in a strange place. Not a good place either. This makes me think of like, 2001 or something. But like creepy. See it's all this white under fluorescent lights and I can't see any windows or even doors. All that's in here is this old-ass terminal. Man, what the fucked happened? Then I remembered: I "picked up" the ATM on my way home from work, but I forgot that it was the fourth Thursday of the motnh. Usualy the day I host D & D for the guys. The ATM must have ben there in my body when my frends came over. Wnoder what happened then?

    Some point later, I'm here in this white room. It's scary at first, I know they're watching me. All I have in this room is this computer terminal. This has got to be the Project Fastus that's what the ATM has been trying to get inside all along. So I guess it's great that I'm (and he???) is insid, it's like I'm in the frickin' Death Star or something, but I don't see any garbage chutes or anything.

    After a few hours of clicking through on thiscomputer terminal (looks like they're running some old-ass *NIX : ) these two guys in suits come into my room from my room. Now it's serious.

    They drag me into a room full of all this really sciency equipment-you know, blooping and bleeping gadgets, big cold noises from the air conditioner. I thought I was in 2001 for a second, except instead of HAL, there's this big bald guy. He's red and pretty sweaty despite the massive air conditioning. He barks a few words to the suited guys and they go away.

    "So you've been harboring our little ATM problem," says the man nonchalantly. I don't say anything (I'm nervous). He restarts his spiel a few seconds later, this time with a bit of veins comung out of his neck.

    "Joel Shane Cross. That is your name, isn't it?" The guy went from good cop to bad cop pretty quick-which was really disturbing. I was already out of sorts with reality, waking up in nowheresville, this odd place. He just kept talking, and I started to get scared, and actually kinda angry. "We know all about you, Mr. Cross. We know that you've been allowing the ATM to inhabit your body for some time now. You've been mislead, Mr. Cross. Working for the wrong people."

    "I belive the ATM!" I told him, stickin to my guns while Istuck it to the man.

    "You'll learn in time," the red and sweaty man said it from his mouth, but the noise of his voice was all over the place. And then he was gone. Not by turning around, by like, vanishing. And the sciency room was gone too, replaced by the big white place I was stuck in. I don't know where I am. But this shit is If you are ready to become the biggest man you can be, then order your supply of Magna-RX+ today! See for yourself, what thousands of satisfied men (and their lovers) have already discovered: Magna-RX+ is the world's #1 Best-Selling Penis Enlargement Formula for one very simple reason: IT WORKS AND NOTHING ELSE CAN COMPARE!
    crazy. If someone gets this message...please help.


    END TRANSMISSION.

    - posted by poopbot: lovely snot! wonderful snot!

    fjl8mmqw0G Post #709
  34. The Troll Polka: UPDATED by poopbot by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    THE TROLL POLKA (ARSCHFICKEN MIT ZIEGEN)
    By Serial Troller, 2002-06-25

    Is das nicht ein early post? Ja! Das ist mein early post!
    Is das nicht ein Goatse ghost? Ja! Das ist mein Goatse ghost!
    Early post, Goatse ghost,
    Oh, du schoene, Oh, du schoene, Oh, du schoene, Slashdot sucks!

    Is das post at minus one? Ja! Das ist at minus one!
    Is das trolling so much fun? Ja! Das trolling is so fun!
    Minus one, trolling fun, Early post, Goatse ghost,
    Oh, du schoene, Oh, du schoene, Oh, du schoene, Slashdot sucks!

    Is das nicht ein big crapflood? Ja! Das ist mein big crapflood!
    Is it worthless Linux FUD? Ja! Das ist mein Linux FUD!
    Big crapflood, Linux FUD, Minus one, trolling fun, Early post, Goatse ghost,
    Oh, du schoene, Oh, du schoene, Oh, du schoene, Slashdot sucks!

    Is das nicht der CowBoiKneel? Ja! Das ist der CowBoiKneel!
    Is dis nicht his manchode meal? Ja! Das ist his manchode meal!
    CowBoiKneel, manchode meal, Big crapflood, Linux FUD,
    Minus one, trolling fun, Early post, Goatse ghost,
    Oh, du schoene, Oh, du schoene, Oh, du schoene, Slashdot sucks!

    Is das nicht ein WIPO Troll? Ja! Das ist der WIPO Troll!
    Is das nicht ein Goatse hole? Ja! Das ist der Goatse hole!
    WIPO Troll, Goatse hole, CowBoiKneel, manchode meal,
    Big crapflood, Linux FUD, Minus one, trolling fun, Early post, Goatse ghost,
    Oh, du schoene, Oh, du schoene, Oh, du schoene, Slashdot sucks!

    Is das nicht Jon Katz' slave boys? Ja! Das ist Jon Katz' slave boys!
    Und are they not Taco's sex toys? Ja! They are Taco's sex toys!
    Katz' slave boys, Rob's sex toys, WIPO Troll, Goatse hole,
    CowBoiKneel, manchode meal, Big crapflood, Linux FUD,
    Minus one, trolling fun, Early post, Goatse ghost,
    Oh, du schoene, Oh, du schoene, Oh, du schoene, Slashdot sucks!

    Is das nicht ein trolltalk thread? Ja! Das ist ein trolltalk thread!
    Is it nicht now FUCKING DEAD? Ja! Is really FUCKING DEAD!
    Trolltalk thread, FUCKING DEAD! Katz' slave boys, Rob's sex toys,
    WIPO Troll, Goatse hole, CowBoiKneel, manchode meal,
    Big crapflood, Linux FUD, Minus one, trolling fun,
    Early post, Goatse ghost,
    Oh, du schoene, Oh, du schoene, Oh, du schoene,
    Slashdot sucks!

    ____________________

    Change Log:

    * Subtle changes to most verses. It sounded really gay before.
    * Removed all references to Taco's pud. May have been high at time. Will investigate further.
    * Finally think I have goat sex written correctly in German. I think. Arschficken?

    (C) 2002 Serial Troller. Permission to reproduce this document is granted provided that you send all the bukkake porn you can find to serialtroller@hotmail.com.

    - posted by poopbot: information likes to be narrow

    VKNmSJOQuE Post #710

  35. Re:Will Subversion guarantee backwards compatabili by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yes, they have done that on their mailinglists.
    But dont expect that to kick in before 1.0. Prior to 1.0 you can expect everything to change every now and then.

  36. arch vs Subversion by Luyseyal · · Score: 4, Informative

    Here is short comparison of why you might want to use arch over Subversion, depending on your project's needs:

    http://regexps.com/src/src/arch/=FAQS/subversion

    -l

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    Help cure AIDS, cancer, and more. Donate your unused computer time to worldcommunitygrid.org. Join Team Slashdot!
    1. Re:arch vs Subversion by William+Tanksley · · Score: 2

      It's hard to read a document which starts out so fundamentally /wrong/. It claims that using "ordinary files" makes its format somehow more managable -- what baloney. By using "ordinary files" it's actually choosing to implement its own proprietary database. If you want to manage it, you have to learn its format.

      Subversion's not ahead here; but by using a standard database, at least you can use standard database tools to manage it. You still have to learn, of course.

      I like arch. It's a cool system. But nonsense like that...

      -Billy

    2. Re:arch vs Subversion by joib · · Score: 1

      Hrm.. arch is cool in it's own right, no need to bash subversion. They have different goals.

      The goal of subversion is to be as similar to cvs as possible, while correcting the big flaws in cvs. If you want, think of Subversion as CVS 2.0. While the backend is quite different, the command-line client is quite similar to cvs, it accepts many of the same options as cvs. Developers familiar with cvs should be almost immidiately productive with subversion. The subversion guys are even developing cvs2svn repository migration tools. Also, subversion has a client API, making writing GUI clients and the like much easier.

      Arch, however, is different. Migrating from cvs to arch is not as painless as from cvs to subversion. That being said, arch supports distributed repositories, which subversion doesn't, and has oodles of fancy merge operations. Also, arch consists of about 40klines of mostly shell and awk scripts, which makes some people shudder. This also means that getting arch to run on a non-Unix platform is probably next to impossible, while subversion can run on any platform apache supports (Yes, the client and libs also use APR). Finally, arch currently uses ftp as transport protocol, making it problematic security-wise.

    3. Re:arch vs Subversion by millette · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Seriously, if we had a good enough filesystem, there wouldn't be a need for any db. It's only a question of point of view. You mention using standard database tools to manage subversion. What's so wrong about standard filesystem tools to manage arch then? You know, like cat and grep, and ls even. (Please, don't point out that grep isn't a filesystem tool, please).

    4. Re:arch vs Subversion by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      metadata. your filesystem cant store extensive metadata while a dedicated SCMS needs a metadata storage facility. hence the need for a database.

    5. Re:arch vs Subversion by Luyseyal · · Score: 2

      1) I'm not bashing Subversion. Reread what I said.

      2) The author isn't bashing Subversion. His point is he thinks arch has some better features, particularly for open source-style development.

      3) bash and awk both run on Windows and Mac. The author says (in another document on the website) there's also a Perl version in the works.

      4) ftp is not an issue since ssh can masquerade ftp well enough.

      -l

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    6. Re:arch vs Subversion by Luyseyal · · Score: 2

      The point is that having a local archive of all the versions allows you, for example, to grep through the source for that old snippet of code in some version that you need but aren't sure what version it's in. Sure, you can checkout all the Subversion versions locally, but arch does it implicitly. I think that's pretty sweet.

      dig around in here to get an idea of what the file tree looks like:

      http://regexps.com/src/src/arch/%7barch%7d/

      -l

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    7. Re:arch vs Subversion by William+Tanksley · · Score: 2

      You mention using standard database tools to manage subversion. What's so wrong about standard filesystem tools to manage arch then?

      Nothing. Nothing's wrong with using standard filesystem tools to manage arch. Nothing's wrong with arch -- or at least I have nothing to criticise.

      What's wrong is arch's idiodic propaganda stating that Subversion is magically inferior because it uses a database rather than a file system.

      The one weakness in arch is that it manages the existing filesystem as a database but accepts the use of non-database tools to alter it. You can use grep and so on to maintain it, but you'll certainly destroy it if you don't know exactly what you're doing, since filesystem tools can't possibly know how to maintain a database, while database tools must.

      But this isn't a big deal to me -- after all, you can have a perfectly good database which isn't a version control system, so your database management tools can cause a lot of problems as well when used by an idiot. So again, I have no complaints with arch's approach. Only its marketing.

      -Billy

    8. Re:arch vs Subversion by William+Tanksley · · Score: 2

      Why are you replying to me with this? It doesn't seem to fit any of my posts. Perhaps you meant to reply to someone else?

      -Billy

    9. Re:arch vs Subversion by Luyseyal · · Score: 2

      I was simply pointing out why arch's "ordinary files" are more managable, from a code perspective, than databases.

      -l

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    10. Re:arch vs Subversion by millette · · Score: 1
      Thanks for clarifying your point. I wasn't saying anything for/against arch/subversion either. In reallity, I was thinking about something Hans Reiser said: "That way, users can continue using the filesystem directly rather than building special-purpose layers that run on top of the filesystem, such as databases and the like.". quote

      So my post was more theoretical in nature. I guess you can even consider it off-topic now.

    11. Re:arch vs Subversion by William+Tanksley · · Score: 2

      Okay. Why did you compare local version storage versus remote version storage, then? This isn't a database versus files issue; it's a local versus remote issue.

      Anyhow, I certainly agree that arch has this, and other, advantages. (Many others.) None of them make arch "more managable" or "more usable" or anything else than subversion; they simply give the two different characteristics. Remote files have HUGE advantages as well, in the right environment.

      -Billy

    12. Re:arch vs Subversion by Jerf · · Score: 4, Informative
      To whomever wrote that document: Speaking as a disinterested third party with some experience, the document does not look like a "short comparision", it looks like a Subversion bash fest written by somebody with an axe to grind.

      As a simple example, consider
      In Subversion, a lot of revision control "smarts" are built into the server. In arch, the smarts reside entirely within the clients. Therefore....
      1. arch is very fast
      2. arch is scalable
      3. arch servers are easy to administer
      4. arch is resiliant when servers fail
      5. arch is better able to recover from server disasters
      (numbered for my convenience)

      However, this characterization is horribly, obviously lopsided in favor of arch. Putting the smarts on the server is a good thing, because it prevents replication and therefore differences and therefore bugs on the client side, with logic the client should not need to deal with. It makes it harder to write an arch client correctly (witness the profusion of cvs clients).

      1 does not follow; a server can often do things faster then a client, because the client may be slow while the server is an 8GHz quad-Sexium with 8 gigs of RAM.

      2 does not follow as an advantage; there's nothing that says a server-based solution can't scale, they do all the time.

      3 is true, but you're trading off with an entire system (server + clients) that's harder to program correctly because of rampant logic duplications in the clients. It's not an unmitigated advantage in favor of arch, and in fact I read it as an advantage to Subversion.

      4 is a nonsequitor; it may be true but it does not follow from being non-centralized. Same for 5. Again, there's no law that servers must be difficult to recover failure from.

      This is just one example of an attitude that pervades the linked document. In fact, the article pointed does more to turn me off to arch then anything else. If the author was a developer for arch, I'd be concerned at the lack of experience in design (it is almost never the case that one solution is better then another in every way) and inability to fairly evaluate two products (why not show what both are good for?) being shown here.
    13. Re:arch vs Subversion by William+Tanksley · · Score: 2

      Oh, I agree with you entirely, then. Yes, I've also been watching ReiserFS for some time.

      I have to note, though, that high performance databases don't run as layers on top of the filesystem; they run directly on the drives, with no filesystem intervention. ReiserFS won't change that; it may be better than ext2fs for database tasks, but it's still not tuned for big-league work. And it never will be -- it's not targetted for that.

      -Billy

    14. Re:arch vs Subversion by joib · · Score: 2

      1) I didn't say that you were bashing subversion.

      2) Ok, maybe bashing is a too harsh word, but I'd hardly say his comparison is unbiased.

      3) Yes but there are other things like hard links etc (like almost the entire unix tool chain). A quick search on google finds the author saying himself that arch is only for POSIX environments.

      4) Even if it works when you use passive mode ftp, you still need shell access for ssh. Anyway, maybe this isn't such a big problem since there are patches for webdav support. Maybe they'll get integrated into the main tree soon.

      Bottom line: both of these will easily blow cvs out of the water. Use whatever you like.

    15. Re:arch vs Subversion by Luyseyal · · Score: 2
      Bottom line: both of these will easily blow cvs out of the water. Use whatever you like.

      right, which was the point of my original post:

      Here is short comparison of why you might want to use arch over Subversion, depending on your project's needs

      -l

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    16. Re:arch vs Subversion by Luyseyal · · Score: 2

      The point of distributed archives is replication. It's fundamental to the design. It assumes you live in an often disconnected world and you can sit there with your laptop in the middle of nowhere doing merges and whatnot independent of some remote archive.

      Anyway, that's the point of it. If it doesn't fit your environment, you shouldn't use it. :)

      using your enumeration:

      [1]. The problem is he doesn't define "fast". When I think "slow", I'm thinking being on the slow end of a pserver/webdav connection in a large project with a lot of concurrent branches in need of merging. Still, I agree, if you can afford the server and all the clients have a decent connection.

      [2]. Well, server-based solutions are expensive on the Linus Torvalds level. Have you seen the merges that guy does? Scary.

      [3]. You're right, except that there are no arch servers (by server, I'm guessing the guy means "main ftp archive" or something). But sometimes it's better to have a smart client. I definitely don't want Apache trying to render web pages for me... sending an image to a dumb browser, no matter how annoying IE vs Mozilla incompatibility gets! :) But yeah, in a highly centralized, probably corporate-style, environment, arch is probably not as good a fit as Subversion.

      [4] & [5] follow from being decentralized because the distributed trees all maintain the history. It obviates the need to specifically keep mirrors of the main archive around since each local archive is already a mirror. At least, that's my understanding of it.

      As far as the author is concerned, I'm guessing he's just trying to advertise his wares. He may have failed due to his poor writing, but I'm guessing his goal was marketing. You might contact him about it... you know: download arch, get a copy of his tree, write up a patch, and publish the archive. hehehehe

      -l

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    17. Re:arch vs Subversion by Jerf · · Score: 2

      I wasn't really interested in giving exhaustively correct answers myself, as I've used neither.

      He may have failed due to his poor writing, but I'm guessing his goal was marketing. You might contact him about it... you know: download arch, get a copy of his tree, write up a patch, and publish the archive. hehehehe

      "Marketing" open source is an interesting issue. I think the issues involved in attracting developers and users to your project are not well explored by the community. There should be a 'definitive essay' on the topic, as in 'Homesteading the Noosphere". (I intend to write one in a few years, if my projects are released and do well. Failing that, I'm not qualified, so don't ask me to do it. ;-) )

      See, the author here has already turned me off and lost. Marketing Open Source should be more honest... 'here's what it's good for, here's what it isn't, here's what needs more work'.

    18. Re:arch vs Subversion by fferreres · · Score: 2

      Either make the filesystem DB oriented, or let people use DBs. The flexibility of a DB on top of a filesystem is that you can keep the OS simple and extend it using whatever DB you want to use, or multiple DBs or no DB at all.

      The benefit of a DB based filesystem (direction of ReiserFS4) are also great. It may be the case that you'll not need a separate DB (but maybe you will, if you need other features!).

      MS going to a DB filesystem will make our lives more difficult for sure. We just need to way and see, but that's my guess. And they can make it work, because the can force a single DB filesystem you cannot avoid.

      On the other hand, Linux will probably have options for DB filesystem, but as they will not be widespread (and there may be a lot of incompatible DB fs) for a long time, you can't sucessfully base aan app on a specific DB fs beign at the core.

      This my semi-uneducated opinion of course.

      --
      unfinished: (adj.)
    19. Re:arch vs Subversion by tomlord · · Score: 1

      Um, hey -- I think I'm now obligated to all your reading skills into question ;-)

      It's a FAQ, not a paper. In other words, its designed to help orient readers to the design space and give them a staring point for research and comparison. I assume that the FAQ's readers are smart enough not to try to use the FAQ as a CS textbook.

      Second, what I've tried to say in the FAQ is not that databases are overapplied (that's for another discussion) but rather that arch's standard-file-formats and ordinary filesystem tree orientation resulted in a very tiny, simple implementation that nevertheless has many of the desirable semantic and performance characteristics people often presume require a database.

      That second point isn't some loopy overgeneralization about databases: it's an observation about how the implementation "came together" around simple file formats.

      But yeah, thanks for the reminder that when we really do get around to having the "proper role of BTREEs" debate, that, in light of all the accumulated wisdom on the topic, I'd better speak very carefully.

    20. Re:arch vs Subversion by William+Tanksley · · Score: 2

      It's a FAQ, not a paper. In other words, its designed to help orient readers to the design space and give them a staring point for research and comparison. I assume that the FAQ's readers are smart enough not to try to use the FAQ as a CS textbook.

      What on earth does that have to do with your claim that "with arch, you can use standard tools to access past revisions" (implying VERY specifically that you can't do that with Subversion). The entire point of the document is to compare Subversion and arch; instead, you're allegedly comparing databases versus file systems.

      "Allegedly" because you're actually comparing your special-purpose database to Subversion's use of BDB (or whatever they switch to when they've had enough of that).

      That second point isn't some loopy overgeneralization about databases: it's an observation about how the implementation "came together" around simple file formats.

      In a FAQ about the history of arch, that makes sense. In a FAQ about comparing Subversion versus arch, it doesn't. Frankly, your statement here doesn't even make sense, considering what you're actually SAYING in that document. You're NOT giving a history; you're making a very specific claim about present capability.

      I'm REALLY impressed with arch. I like the documentation I've read, like the software. I'm not an enemy. But I HATE, abhor, detest this kind of sniping against other projects.

      Second, what I've tried to say in the FAQ is not that databases are overapplied (that's for another discussion) but rather that arch's standard-file-formats and ordinary filesystem tree orientation resulted in a very tiny, simple implementation that nevertheless has many of the desirable semantic and performance characteristics people often presume require a database.

      Again, context is very important. The context of this FAQ is a contrast between Subversion and arch; in this FAQ, any bullet list claiming a feature especially for arch is implicitly a claim that the same feature is unavailable or very difficult in Subversion.

      In fact, I would definitely say that by the definition of the term "database" you've written your own database. It's probably not relational, but RDBs aren't the only type, nor are they unambiguously the best. So you aren't scoring any points on the "databases are not needed" scoreboard. All you're doing is proving "I can write my own database which serves my needs better than some general-purpose database" (I would tend to agree, even without the beautiful evidence of arch to support your argument).

      Of course, this sort of claim doesn't belong in a comparison with Subversion either, although it's certainly worth some good discussion.

      You know what, I'm wondering if you're talking about the same FAQ I am. Look at the link which started this, and make sure we're on the same page.

      With all due respect, maybe I'm not the one who needs to work on his reading comprehension ;-).

      -Billy

  37. Google Cache by RicRoc · · Score: 1

    Get the goodness here!

    I've been using CVS for some time and I'm happy with it, but if the same guys think they can make something better, great! I'll try it ASAP. :-)

    --
    Who?
  38. OPEN SOURCE MISCONCEPTIONS by poopbot by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    OPEN SOURCE MISCONCEPTIONS
    By Serial Troller

    Myth: Open Source is written by heterosexuals.

    Fact: All Open Source development is done by raging homosexuals. The more flaming examples include Anal Cox, Linus Turdballs, Eric Ass-Reaming Raymond, and the entire Slashdot crew. The ringleader of the slashdotters, a man named CmdrTaco, engages in a practice known as Taco-snotting, along with his faggot-buddies Jeff Homos Bates and CowBoiKneel.

    Myth: Open Source is written for heterosexuals.

    Fact: Using Open Source software can cause suppressed homosexual fantasies to surface, leading to all out flaming faggotry within 6-8 weeks. Anecdotes of otherwise hetero men turning queer are far too numerous to count, but a few examples stand out. In one case, a man was arrested loitering outside an elementary school and making sexual overtures to several children: he quickly confessed that shortly after installing the Mozilla browser on his computer, he began to have uncontrollable urges to, to put it simply, have his cock sucked off by little boys. He soon met several other like-minded men through discussions on the Bugger Zilla mailing list (all already homosexuals), who together kidnapped a total of seven children whom they brought back to their apartment and sodomized. The other two men are still at large and believed to still be using Mozilla.

    Myth: Open Source is multicultural.

    Fact: Open Source is openly racist.

    Myth: Open Source is democratic.

    Fact: Open Source is controlled by a few narrow-minded zealots (mentioned throughout this post), most of whom are either Communists, Stalinists, Nazis, or Fascists. Additionally, Open Source supports terrorism.

    Myth: Open Source is tolerant of religious preferences.

    Fact: Open Source developers regularly engage in holy wars over the superiority of various Open Source projects, such as the Emacs program (preferred by Christians) versus vi (used mostly by neo-pagans and Satanists); or the KDE desktop (a favorite among Muslims) versus the GNOME project (particularly favored by Jews). Posts initiating crusades or jihads against other developers can be found regularly throughout the newsgroups and mailing lists.

    Myth: Open Source is tolerant of sexual preference.

    Fact: See above. Either you are a homo, you become a homo, or you never visit Richard Stallman alone in his office and hope to God you never meet him on the street at night.

    Myth: Open Source is tolerant of political differences.

    Fact: Open Source is an anarcho-communist philosophy bent on the destruction of capitalism. The very same Richard Stallman, a man whose name is disturbingly reminiscent of Stalin, has stated several times in public that his vision includes the subjugation of all who own intellectual properties under the jackboot of the GPL. The GPL is a pernicious piece of literature lifted straight from Karl Marxs Communist Manifesto, and is fortunately banned in many democratic nations.

    * * * * * UPDATE * * * * *

    Myth: Open Source programming is a harlmess, healthy activity.

    Fact: Open Source programming has been known to lead to massive obesity, violent tendencies with an obsession with handguns, paranoid-delusional ranting, and in severe cases, complete insanity. If anyone you know is thinking about going Open Source, stop them before its too late!

    * * * * * UPDATE * * * * *

    ____________________

    2002 Serial Troller. Permission to reproduce this document is granted provided that you send all the bukkake porn you can find to serialtroller@hotmail.com.

    - posted by poopbot: because we're all crapflooders at heart

    HHY7JrASVR Post #711

  39. THE OFFICIAL TACO-SNOTTING FAQ by poopbot by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    THE OFFICIAL TACO-SNOTTING FAQ [slashdot.org]
    By J. Wipo Troll, Esq. [slashdot.org], $Revision: 1.16 $
    [This article attempts to document a vile, ungodly practice that runs rampant through the homosexual geek and hacker community, a practice known as âoeTaco-snotting,â or simply âoesnotting.â Taco-snotting is something that few geeks dare talk about in free or open conversation, but it is nonetheless a widely-practiced and dangerous form of homosexuality. If you or anyone you know has ever engaged in Taco-snotting, please get professional help [adequacy.org] before it is too late. â"ed.]

    Why do I keep receiving emails from an individual calling himself âoeCmdrTacoâ?
    You have been receiving unsolicited mailings from a certain Robert âoeCmdrTacoâ Malda [cmdrtaco.net], owner of the popular technology website slashdot.org [slashdot.org]. Actually, itâ(TM)s not a very âoepopularâ site in the common sense of the word; the site is rife with pimply, antisocial geeks and hackers, zit-faced nerds, communists, dirty GNU hippies [yahoo.com], and other societal rejects and outcasts. Itâ(TM)s also home to one of the worldâ(TM)s largest suspected pædophile rings, the infamous âoeSlashdot crew.â
    Whenever Mr. Malda gets bored (and who wouldnâ(TM)t, running a site like Slashdot all day), he roams through the user database, penis in hand, looking for people who might enjoy engaging in homosexual activities with him. How he determines this is anyoneâ(TM)s guess; but if you have a homosexual-sounding nickname, or a nick with a letter of the English alphabet in it, youâ(TM)re a potential candidate.
    This time, he found you. Lucky you.

    Mr. Malda seems to be speaking in some sort of code. Do you know what it means?
    CmdrTacoâ(TM)s code language is relatively easy to decipher. This pervert prefers to speak in thinly-veiled sexual innuendo (yes, thatâ(TM)s right: he wants you) to evade the watchful eye of Slashdotâ(TM)s parent corporation, VA Software [yahoo.com]. Mr. Maldaâ(TM)s âoeCommanderâ is, of course, his penis: a small, withered little thing that lives in his pants and only comes out in the presence of other male geeks or at the beck and call of Maldaâ(TM)s own lubed-up right hand. His âoeTaco bells [sonymusic.com]â are the shriveled testicles that droop beneath his Commander, and his âoeTaco sauceâ is his thin, runny semen. It should be more than obvious to you now what he means if he asked you to âoering his Taco bellsâ or âoetaste his gourmet Taco sauce.â
    I would also guess CmdrTaco asked you to engage in a practice known as âoeTaco-snottingâ and, if he was in a particularly depraved mood at the time, a âoecircle-snot.â

    Good Lord. And, yes, he did. What is âoeTaco-snottingâ?
    âoeTaco-snottingâ is the term used by Robert Malda to refer to the depraved act of fellating another man (homo- or heterosexual; CmdrTaco is rumoured to prefer raping unwilling victims), then blowing the semen out his nose and back onto the face and body of his victim. Naturally, a long, bubbly stream of milky-white semen is left on CmdrTacoâ(TM)s face [go.com], dribbling out of his nose and down his cheek: hence the term, âoeTaco-snotting.â
    And if thatâ(TM)s not bad enoughâ¦
    A âoecircle-snotâ is a Taco-snotting circle-jerk, another practice common among the Slashdot crew [bastardgenres.com]. CmdrTaco, CowboiKneel [aol.com], and Homos get together and snot each other with their gooey, sticky cum â" spooging their jizz-snot all over each otherâ(TM)s faces and pasty, white bodies, until theyâ(TM)re covered head to toe with their own and each otherâ(TM)s man juice. This vile, ungodly ritual can go on for hours. For the homosexual penetration that follows this lengthy foreplay, Roblowme is usually there to provide plenty of anal lubricant; he owns a limousine service and has ample supplies of motor oil and axle grease ready to go.
    To complete this perverted orgy, fellow faggots Michael, Timothy, and Jamie will usually join in, dressed in tight leather mock-S.S. uniforms, jack boots, and leather gloves. The homosexual shenanigans that follow are nearly beyond description. The whole group begins to snot each otherâ(TM)s spunk and whip each otherâ(TM)s pudgy asses with riding crops and chains until their pale, white geek bodies are exhausted and soaked in stinking sweat from the hours of passionate, homosexual revelry.

    Ewwwwww. So, can I stop receiving these emails?
    Hopefully, but I wouldnâ(TM)t count on it.
    To begin with, you most likely forgot to uncheck the âoeWilling to Snotâ checkbox in your account preferences. CmdrTaco has probably already got the hots for your wad (do you have a homosexual-sounding nick?), and heâ(TM)s probably already been lurking outside your bathroom window for weeks with a camera, some tissues and lube, just waiting to pounce and declare you his new bitch. Thereâ(TM)s no escaping a geek in heat (trust me), so itâ(TM)s probably too late for you, but you can possibly rectify this situation. To remove yourself from CmdrTacoâ(TM)s sights, log into your Slashdot account, go to your user page, click on Messages, and uncheck the box next to âoeWilling to Snot.â Maybe heâ(TM)ll ignore you. Probably not.

    I canâ(TM)t stop receiving these emails from CmdrTaco!?
    If you indulge him in a Taco-snot or two, hemight leave you alone. You might also want to look into mail filtering, restraining orders, or purchasing a heavy, blunt object capable of warding off rampaging homosexual geeks in heat. Trust me, when they charge⦠oh, the humanity. If he gets you, and you let him Taco-snot all over you, you will most likely end up tied up in his basement to be used as his sex slave for the rest of your life (or until he accidentally drowns you in spunk in a circle-snot).

    Have you ever been Taco-snotted?
    Unfortunately, yes. I first met Mr. Malda at an Open Source Convention [amazon.com]. He invited me back to his room for a game of Quake and some âoegourmet Tacos,â but when I got there, the perverted geek jumped me and handcuffed me to his bed, stripping me. After taking his âoeCommanderâ out of his pants, Mr. Taco made me suck the withered thing six times, virtually nonstop. He then performed his vile Taco-snotting ritual on me three times over the next two hours, bringing me to orgasm after orgasm after sweaty, mind-numbing orgasm⦠then he snotted my own thick, gooey jizz back onto my face out of his nostrils! He snotted me two more times, first into my mouth, then again on my exposed belly.
    CmdrTaco invited several of his Open Source (or rather, âoeOpen Sauceâ â" man sauce) buddies over to continue their ungodly snotfest. European hacker and known überfaggot Linux Torvalds raped my ass [yahoo.com] with his âoemonolithic kernel [yahoo.com];â his partner-in-crime Anal Cox used their âoenetwork stackâ in a multitude of unspeakable ways on and in every orifice of my defenseless, tender, young body. Michael Sims was there in his leather Nazi uniform, caning my previously-virginal ass with a bamboo pole and ranting about âoeall those Censorware [spectacle.org] freaks out to get him.â

    That is so disgusting! How did you finally escape?
    After about 16 hours of countless unholy, homosexual atrocities perpetrated against my restrained body, they all finally went to sleep on top of me, sweat-soaked and exhausted. I was left there, completely covered in bubbly, translucent jizz-snot, chained to the bed, with half a dozen fat, pasty-white fags lying around and on top of me. Fortunately the spooge coating my flesh worked wonderfully as a lubricant â" I was able to squirm my way out of the handcuffs and slip out the back door (of the apartment, not their back doors). Iâ(TM)m just glad I survived the awful ordeal. These sexually-repressed hackers had alot of built-up spunk in their wads â" I couldâ(TM)ve easily been drowned!

    Thatâ(TM)s horrible. Does âoeTaco-snottingâ have anything to do with CmdrTacoâ(TM)s âoespecial tacoâ?
    No, thatâ(TM)s a different disgusting perversion CmdrTaco indulges himself in. Mr. Malda is usually not satisfied with merely snotting your own jizz back onto your face, he most often enjoys involving his own bodily fluids in his twisted games. WeatherTroll [slashdot.org] has spent some time trying to educate the Slashdot readership [slashdot.org] about this vile practice (emphasis added):
    You may be wondering what CmdrTacoâ(TM)s âoespecial tacoâ is. You will be wishing that you hadnâ(TM)t been wondering after you finish reading this post. To make his âoespecial taco,â CmdrTaco takes a taco shell and shits on it. He then adds lettuce, takes out his tiny withered dick (otherwise known as his âoeCommanderâ), puts his âoespecial taco sauceâ on it which means he jacks off on the taco, and adds a compound to make the person who eats the taco unconscious. Of course, the compound does not make the person unconscious until the taco is fully eaten. Thus CmdrTaco force-feeds the taco to the unsuspecting victim. After all, who would knowingly eat shit and CmdrTacoâ(TM)s jizz?
    After the victim is unconscious, he is held against his will and used for CmdrTacoâ(TM)s nefarious homosexual purposes. This includes shoving taco shells up the victimâ(TM)s ass, Taco-snotting, and getting Jon Katz involved. Trust me, you do not want Jon Katz anywhere near your unconscious body. Also, rumor has it CmdrTaco is looking for a new goatse.cx guy [goatse.cx]. Donâ(TM)t let it be you!
    Different ungodly perversion, yet no less revolting. It should be clear to you now that Robert âoeCmdrTacoâ Malda is a very, very sick individual, as are most of the Slashdot editors.

    Does Jon Katz get involved in any of this? I thought he was a pædophile, not a homosexual.
    Actually, Jon Katz is a homosexual pædophile. Heâ(TM)s also a coprophiliac, and, many suspect, a zoophile. Mr. Katz is somewhat of a loner and doesnâ(TM)t involve himself in the circle-snots, but that doesâ(TM)t mean heâ(TM)s any less of a freak than the rest of the Slashdot crew. Katz often engages in a game called âoejuicy-douching [aol.com]â with a harem of little-boy slaves that he has collected over the years: yet another vile practice which involves administering an enema to himself of the little boyâ(TM)s urine (forced out of them with a pair of pincers), spooging the vile muck from his ass back into the enema bag, then dribbling and slathering the goo all over himself and the boyâ(TM)s chained, naked bodies. If heâ(TM)s in the mood, he will sometimes skip refilling the enema bag from his distended anus and just squirt it from his ass [microsoft.com] onto the crying, terrified boys. Unwilling boys are further tortured with the pincers until they comply and allow Mr. Katz to juicy-douche them at will. A boy will usually last about two years before Mr. Katz either accidentally drowns them in diarrhea or kills them once they get too old, usually around 13 or 14.
    Not content with being a pædophilic coprophile, Mr. Katz is also quite the zoophile. As if the sexual escapades with the helpless little boys arenâ(TM)t enough, Jon usually enjoys his juicy-douches best when his penis is firmly planted in a female goatâ(TM)s anus [yahoo.com]. He is also rumoured to get off on watching his little boys eat the goatâ(TM)s small, bean-like turds, and he often kills his older boys by letting his goats trample them.

    â¦Are you getting hard writing this?
    Why, yes. :) Join me in a WIPO-snot?

    No, thanks. Iâ(TM)m already CmdrTacoâ(TM)s boi toi.
    ________________________________________

    * The URL of this document is
    * Previous revisions are publicly available at

    $Id: tacosnotting.html,v 1.16 2001/12/28 21:20:03 wipo Exp $
    Copyright © 2001 J. Wipo Troll, Esq. [slashdot.org] Verbatim crapflooding of this document is permitted in any medium, provided this copyright notice is preserved, and next time you take a dump, you think of the WIPO Troll and all heâ(TM)s done to make Slashdot a better place.

    - posted by poopbot: providing truth in a deceitful world

    uWfP5pe5wT Post #712

  40. A typical slashdot day by poopbot by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    Credits: anonymous

    "Mmmm... this feels good..." I sighed.
    "Shhh!" hissed Hemos. "We don't want Mark to come in here!"

    True. Having Hemos's 16 year-old brother walk in on us at that moment would not be good. I didn't think he'd be too cool with finding his 12 year-old brother lying naked with me, holding my 11 year-old dick in his hands. But, in all fairness, my hands were eagerly playing with Hemos's dick and balls at that moment, too.

    Hemos's mom and dad had gone to the drive-in, leaving his big brother in charge. In our favor, leaving Mark in charge pretty much guaranteed that we weren't to bother him, and in turn, he'd leave us alone unless we were making too much noise or breaking something. Well, we were being careful to keep quiet because we very much wanted to be left alone.

    We were in Hemos's twin bed, snuggled under the covers with our underwear pushed down to the foot of the bed. The only illumination in the room came from the faint sliver of light that crept in under his bedroom door. Even in the shadows I could make out the shape of my friend; about my height, but heavier. (Hell, I was such a skinny runt that everyone was heavier than me.) Hemos had a crew-cut of white-blonde hair, and was only starting to sprout some pubic hair. But, you had to feel for it because what little pubic hair he possessed was as blonde as the short hair on his hea and could not yet be seen by even a minimal distance.

    And, I was happily feeling for it, running my hands all over Hemos's slightly larger erection and fondling his larger testicles while he courteously stroked my dick. I could tell that he didn't possess the same enthusiasm for cockplay as I did, unless you count his appreciation for the attention devoted to his member. And I knew that my willingness to satisfy his sexual urges was one of the few reasons he even had me sleep over at his place. But, I didn't let that stop me from finding pleasure in the handling of his meat.

    I'd recently had an "introduction", of sorts, to seeing what someone could do with a man's dick with their mouth. While spending the night with my Uncle Jerry a couple weeks before, while I watched in secret, I was treated to a visual display of the intensity and unabashed pleasure that my uncle had obviously enjoyed having another man suck on his cock. From that moment on, I had a yearning that I needed to satisfy. With who was my only question.

    I guess it was time to find out.

    "I... heard that sucking on it feels even better than playing with it." I ventured.

    In the darkness, I could feel a slight jerk of revulsion in Hemos's body.

    "Put a dick in your mouth?" he croaked.

    "Well, " I countered, my heart pounding with anxiety, "I think adults do it all the time."

    "Well, I'm not gonna do it!" Hemos hissed. "That's homo stuff!"

    "Yeah." I sighed disappointedly, while still playing with Hemos's dick. "I guess it is."

    As I stroked his shaft in a steadier, milking rhythm, I could sense Hemos's breaths getting quicker. His manipulations of my dick began to falter as I could feel his body tense beside me. His hips rocked slightly in time with my pumping of his cock, and I cradled his balls tenderly in my other hand. When any attentions to my own dick has completely ebbed, I knew what was about to happen, so I picked up the pace just a bit more while lending a touch more pressure in my grip. Finally, Hemos's breath caught in his throat, and he turned his face fully into his pillow to stifle the moans that broke free as his cock pulsed and throbbed in a dry orgasm within my hands. I continued to massage him and didn't release him from my grasp until his member had gone fully soft.

    "Man," sighed Hemos dreamily after finally catching his breath. "You are so good at that, CmdrTaco."

    At least I had something to be proud of, I guess, as my friend gently withdrew himself from me and rolled onto his back.

    Even though I was only eleven, the irony of Hemos's words and actions were not lost on me. My sucking on him would have been a "homo" thing, but beating him off was okay. Go figure. Within the few moments I had spent mulling over the irony of the thoughts, Hemos had drifted off to sleep. I slipped out from under the covers and down to the cool floor so I could masturbate without shaking the bed. As I toyed with my own dick, I imagined Hemos's cock in my mouth, wondering if the chance would ever really come. Finally, my own climax washed over me, and I got back into the bed.

    I don't sleep real well to begin with, and even worse when I'm not in my own bed. And now, with the thoughts of a dick so close to me, as well as the vivid memories of secretly seeing man-to-man cocksucking pleasure floating through my prepubescent, sex-filled brain, I was not about to fall asleep anytime soon. Lying awake until around 11:30, I finally decided that I needed to do something to satisfy my hungers, or I'd never be able to let it rest. The trick was in finding the guts to follow through.

    I knew that whenever Hemos fell asleep, he pretty much stayed asleep. So, since he was sleeping soundly, lying on his back, I took a deep breath and gingerly ducked my head under the covers and scooted down as much as I could to the foot of the bed. That put my head right at Hemos's hip level. I raised my head and upper body to help create a tent over his crotch. Sniffing around, I found the faint scent of young penis flesh. I inhaled deeply, both in the love of the scent, and in an attempt to slow my pounding heart. I opened my mouth wide over the area where I sensed Hemos's dick to be, and lowered my mouth squarely over his soft cock and balls until I could feel his sparse pubic hairs tickling my cheek. I finally had a dick in my mouth! I just wasn't sure what I'd do if Hemos woke to find his "homo" friend in this situation.

    I remained like that for a long moment, partially in fear of trying anything more, and partly to savor the moment. I carefully let my tongue start to explore his tender penile flesh, enjoying the texture. Then came the excitement that welled within me as his cock began to respond to my attentions and harden in my warm and wet mouth! Butterflies seemed to explode in my stomach and drown out my heartbeat as I felt his dick get to its full size in my mouth. Concentrating in that dark environment, I found myself beginning to identify the shape of his member by taste. The shaft actually seemed to taste different than the head, and the thin skin of his scrotum seemed to harbor another distinct flavor.

    I started to softly suck on Hemos's dick, becoming fascinated at how it just seemed to, well, 'fit' in my mouth... how the head lent itself to the back of my tongue, and how the shaft rested between my tongue and the roof of my mouth. My excitement was so great that my own recently satisfied dick was responding again, inviting me to play. I was sucking a cock, and I was in heaven!

    However, within seconds, Hemos seemed to get restless. In fear, I quickly pulled my mouth away from Hemos's candy stick and held still. The covers rustled, and pulled back.

    "Whatcha doin'?" mumbled Hemos.

    "I... uh... was trying to find my shorts down here," I lied, starting to fumble near our feet. Well, partial lie, because it was a good idea to do so, anyway, and now was as good a time as any.

    "Oh, yeah," said Hemos. "Get mine, too, willya?"

    "S-sure" I stammered, relieved.

    I located the two items of clothing and scooted back up towards the head of the bed. Thankfully, our underwear were pretty easy to distinguish since Hemos wore boxers, and I wore briefs. We both fumbled to put them on in the dark, and then settled back into the bed. I lay stiffly on my back, still harboring some fear that my friend discovered more than he let on, but Hemos simply rolled onto his side, facing away from me, and promptly went back to sleep.

    And, here I was again, so close to my fantasies, yet still so far.

    And very much awake.

    After hearing the clock in the hallway chime midnight, I finally got up to go to the bathroom. Figuring it was late enough not to be an issue, and since even if Hemos's parents were home that they would be in their own bedroom downstairs, I didn't bother to slip on my pants for the short trip down the hall. I walked softly to the bedroom door, and then stepped out into the hallway, illuminated dimly by a bare-bulb night light. I walked past big brother Mark's door to the bathroom at the end of the hall and turned on the light as I shut the door.

    Peeing into the toilet, I looked up at my reflection in the large mirror and smiled slyly to myself. I actually sucked on a dick, even if for only a moment! At that moment I was Rob Maldo, secret agent double-O-seven, who could sneak in and suck a dick, and sneak away without being caught!

    I flushed the toilet and switched out the light as I headed back down the hall. Slipping past Mark's door once again, the door flew open, and a hand covered my mouth while a muscular arm snapped around my waist and drew me into the room. Squirming in the arms of Hemos's athletic older brother was a waste of effort, and he only squeezed harder until I settled down.

    "You'll keep quiet if you know what's good for you,' growled Mark into my ear. "You gonna be quiet?"

    I nodded. Mark let go of my mouth and reached over to close his bedroom door, the other hand and arm still holding me firmly with my feet off the ground. I heard something click, and recalled, and not without a certain amount of childish fear, that Mark had a lock on his door.

    The room had a yellowish glow from the large lava lamp next to Mark's bed. He took me over to the bed and tossed me face down onto it, kneeling next to me. I thought briefly about trying to get up and run, but to where?

    When I felt Mark's hands on me again, I was determined to fight him off, but I was no match for him as he flipped me onto my back and straddled me, sitting squarely on my upper chest, his knees pinning my shoulders and my arms locked between his legs. I gazed up at his lean, muscled torso, his stern blue eyes under a tussled mane of reddish-blonde hair. I could feel the soft fabric of his boxers against my chin.

    "Can't get up, can ya?" he said, grinning down at me, all snide and victorious.

    I struggled a bit, more out of obligation, but knew it was no use. Mark was just too big for me.

    "Whatsamatter?" huffed Mark. "You too weak to fight? Or, maybe you just like laying there, sniffing dicks?"

    I started squirming a bit harder, but Mark's legs only clamped tighter. At least he had scooted down a bit, and was no longer suffocating me with his weight on my chest.

    "Yeah! Maybe you're a homo-boy who just likes sniffing dicks. Maybe you wanna sniff my big dick?"

    I didn't care for where this was going, and I wasn't too comfortable with the tone of Mark's voice. But, I was also not being given much of a choice in the matter. Especially when Mark reached into the fly of his boxers and pulled out his cock.

    "Here you are, homo-boy... a nice, fresh big-man dick!" grinned Mark fiendishly. "Ain't it a beaut?"

    He held it out for me, then leaned forward and started to rub his cock on my face, tracing my cheeks and nose with the bulbous head. His testicles soon followed his dick through the opening, until they were dangling on my chin, the coarse pubes tickling my lips. Their faint musky scent began to fill my nostrils.

    "CmdrTaco's just a little dick-faced homo-boy, ain't he?" sneered Mark, sliding his cock across my face. "I saw you in there, your head under the covers. What were you doing? Giving my little brother a blow job?"

    I didn't answer. I was at once shocked at the thought of having been discovered, and confused by Mark's remark. I then guessed that he meant sucking a dick was called a 'blow job'. But... you're not blowing, you're sucking, and-

    "You were, weren't you, you little homo!"

    It was obvious what had happened; that Mark had looked in on us to find my head under the blankets. I thought I had sensed a miniscule change in the light, but assumed that to be part of my excitement. That must have been what woke Hemos up so suddenly.

    "So, maybe you aren't just dick-faced, " he said, rubbing his cock on my face again. "Maybe you're a dick sucker!" He leaned forward, mashing his hairy ball sack into my nose, then pulling back to trace my features again with his member. But, even as Mark taunted me, treating his cock as a threatening weapon, there was something else happening.

    He was getting a boner.

    And as I closed my eyes, I could feel his cock thickening against my face. I could sense the heat of his hardening dick directly on my flesh. And, I found I was enjoying the sensations of this older cock against my face. There would soon be no way of hiding the fact that I was getting excited, too.

    "So, dick-sucker-CmdrTaco... you're gonna suck my dick, now."

    My eyes sprung open to see Mark's fully erect cock pointing at my face. While it wasn't huge (I had already seen 'huge' with my Uncle Jerry), it was still big enough to scare me.

    And excite me to no end.

    "Open wide, homo-boy."

    Without another moment of hesitation, or taking my eyes off of Mark's sleek tool, I opened my mouth as wide as I could and watched as he leaned down and slid that beautiful cock into my waiting mouth. I then settled my tongue against the bottom half of his shaft while I could feel the upper half press against the roof of my mouth. Its texture was soft, yet hard; smooth, yet distinct.

    "There," he sighed. "Now, you have a real dick to suck on. Now, get started, suck-boy!"

    It was so much bigger than Hemos's young dick, I wasn't sure if I could get enough suction worked up to suck on it. It was then that I found out what sucking a cock is really all about: friction.

    Mark held the base of his dick to guide himself and started to pump into my mouth, sliding his dick in and out of my salivating lips. He would slip in precariously between my teeth until he was near to choke me, then pull back out until the base of the bulbous head was just close to popping free from my lips, held in place by the suction of my mouth. Then he... we... would do it all over again... over and over... and gloriously over again.

    "Oh, you are good, CmdrTaco," he moaned softly. "You suck cock real good."

    I don't know about that; it seemed he was doing all the real work. But, I wanted it to be good. I wanted to have this dick in my mouth. And I wanted it again and again. I was definitely enjoying the oral sensations as his near-adult dick worked back and forth in my hungry mouth, and I wanted so much to please him so he would want my mouth again.

    Mark placed his other hand on the top of my head to steady me as his thrusts became a little more erratic. His breath quickened, and I could sense that he was trying hard not to ram himself all the way down my throat and choke me. He was making little grunts with each thrust, and I could feel his dick turn to stone in my mouth when, in a mix of fear and excitement, I suddenly recalled what would happen next.

    "Oh, baby... oh, fuck..."

    Mark's movements got all quick and jerky. I was almost afraid to breathe.

    "OHHHH!!!" he moaned, pulling out of my mouth and letting loose with a burst of white goo that seemed to splatter all over as he pumped his dick with his fist. My head still held firmly in his other hand, the warm liquid flew partly into my still open mouth, and all over my nose and eyebrows. I swallowed briefly, not sure whether to gag or hope for more, tasting fully the salty and musky liquid, then opened my mouth once more as Mark stuck his creaming cock back in and worked the thick fluid throughout my young mouth.

    I sucked until Mark went soft and withdrew his spent dick. He smiled down at me, obviously proud of what he had done. He finally got off of me (good thing since I thought my arms were going to fall off) and stood there for a moment, an interesting picture with his hands on his hips, and his drained cock and balls hanging out of the fly of his plaid boxers. I just lay there with his juices clinging to my skin, wanting to do it all over again.

    Mark bent down and picked up a t-shirt, and proceeded to wipe the remainder of his goo off my face. Finished with that, he tossed the shirt into a hamper and walked over to his bedroom door to unlock it as he tucked his manhood back into his underwear.

    "You better get back into Hemos's bed before mom and dad find you here," he said softly.

    I reluctantly got off Mark's bed and walked to the door. As I was about to exit, he reached out to stop me briefly.

    "You liked that, didn't you, homo-boy?"

    I nodded, not sure where he was going with this inquiry.

    "Your first taste of cum?"

    I shrugged, then nodded again.

    "If you're good, maybe I'll let you suck my dick again some time, CmdrTaco. Now, get your ass out of here before I kick it."

    I stepped out of the room and felt the door close harshly behind me. I could still taste traces of Mark's cum in my mouth, could still sense the friction of his cock on my tongue. I smiled in remembrance.

    I was hooked.

    - posted by poopbot: lovely snot! wonderful snot!

    HqITEjctST Post #714

  41. ssl by sllort · · Score: 1

    Just out of curiosity, does subversion have a solution to the CVS's insecure :pserver: problem? That is, a better hack than the nasty scvs scripts for those of us who can't afford to use insecure version control?

    I couldn't find any mention of it on the web page, which is why I'm asking here.

    1. Re:ssl by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      Subversion uses Apache for it's network communication, and I beleive you can use https instead of http.

    2. Re:ssl by kaisyain · · Score: 1

      The web page says they use Apache for all of their networking. That means you get SSL for free.

    3. Re:ssl by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So the client is entirely web based? How do you checkin code? Paste it into a web browser?

    4. Re:ssl by TTimo · · Score: 1

      why can't you use straight :ext: and ssh method instead of that scvs thing

    5. Re:ssl by joib · · Score: 3, Insightful

      As it says right on the front page, Subversion uses WebDAV as its transport protocol. As webdav is based on HTTP 1.1 you get all the benefits of HTTP, like for example SSL encryption.

    6. Re:ssl by joib · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Quoting AC:

      So the client is entirely web based? How do you checkin code? Paste it into a web browser?

      No, the client is a command-line client, like cvs. It just uses HTTP (or to be more specific WebDAV, a HTTP extension) to communicate with the server.

    7. Re:ssl by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

      suhWEET, thanks.

      -sllort, posting anonymously to avoid fair bombing.

    8. Re:ssl by ftobin · · Score: 2

      Ugh, how awful. One of the things I love about CVS is that it can run over ssh.

    9. Re:ssl by be-fan · · Score: 2

      Exactly why do you care what protocol the server uses? If HTTP is good enough for credit card numbers, it should be good enough for a source control system.

      --
      A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
    10. Re:ssl by ftobin · · Score: 2

      I care becuase ssh has agent forwarding, public-key authentication, port tunnelling, and much more. All of this I care about, and use in conjunction with CVS and other things.

      The entire user-agent system for HTTP(S) is incredibly crappy compared to what ssh provides.

    11. Re:ssl by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ssh and http over ssl have the same strength

    12. Re:ssl by GoRK · · Score: 2

      So tunnel subversion over ssh. Do your key auth and port 80 redirection with ssh, then use subversion just like the server was running on your local machine.

    13. Re:ssl by TTimo · · Score: 1

      indeed, I don't see any true security and features difference between running cvs through ssh or accessing svn repository through ssl.

    14. Re:ssl by MassacrE · · Score: 1

      The only real difference is that connecting CVS via SSH means that users require shell accounts.

  42. The name by jbucher · · Score: 1

    Did it occur to the developers that the name subversion does not inspire confidence in a software management package.

    At least they did not call it Kontrol, or gSource gManager.

    1. Re:The name by TTimo · · Score: 1

      Stuff like Kontrol gSource .. gManager .. hugh, that sounds like a big lack of creativity.

      At least 'subversion' plays with the word 'version' and turns it into something cool.

    2. Re:The name by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't you mean GNU/KodeKontrol ???

  43. Cheers! by poopbot by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    Credits: on by

    Trolling your way on the web today
    Takes everything you've got;
    Having a Bot to post your comments
    Sure would help a lot.
    Wouldn't you like to join the frey?

    Sometimes you want to go
    And get a First Post in your name,
    So much goatse that you came;
    We know it's hard to get Eff Pee,
    Our troubles are all the same;
    Get that FP and everyone'll know your name.

    - posted by poopbot: crapflooding since 7/8/02

    aTnezT1kEi Post #715

  44. only if by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Your're running a network accessable repository. You can create and use a local filesystem repository without apache (you still need the APR, but that's a reasonable dependency, I think). And frankly, if you're running a network code repository, you should be required to use a more solid networking component than pserver.

    1. Re:only if by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You can create and use a local filesystem repository without apache

      Hmm. My local build (of r2376) managed not to include ra_local, only ra_dav (!). I swear I just did a default configure && make.

  45. CVS isn't being developed by mgkimsal2 · · Score: 1, Redundant

    his service seems to be redundant and will probably not stay up to date with CVS or else CVS will not stay current with it either way it doesnt seem to make sense IMO

    Having adopted CVS for most projects in the past couple years, I beat my head against the wall with many, imo, stupid issues with CVS. I assume that you don't use CVS, or you would be familiar with the fact that CVS pretty much isn't maintained/extended anymore. What's there is there, and has been *mostly* unchanged for years. There may have been a few patches here and there, but if it was being upgraded/extended, the issues that are 'stupid' now (diretories, permissions, etc) would have been fixed years ago.

  46. Linux Conspiracy by poopbot by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic
    It has come to my attention that the entire Linux community is a hotbed of so called 'alternative sexuality,' which includes anything from hedonistic orgies to homosexuality to pedophilia.

    What better way of demonstrating this than by looking at the hidden messages contained within the names of some of Linux's most outspoken advocates:
    • Linus Torvalds is an anagram of slit anus or VD 'L,' clearly referring to himself by the first initial.
    • Richard M. Stallman, spokespervert for the Gaysex's Not Unusual 'movement' is an anagram of mans cram thrill ad.
    • Alan Cox is barely an anagram of anal cox which is just so filthy and unchristian it unnerves me.


    I'm sure that Eric S. Raymond, composer of the satanic homosexual propaganda diatribe The Cathedral and the Bizarre, is probably an anagram of something queer, but we don't need to look that far as we know he's always shoving a gun up some poor little boy's rectum. Update: Eric S. Raymond is actually an anagram for secondary rim and cord in my arse. It just goes to show you that he is indeed queer.

    Update the Second: It is also documented that Evil Sicko Gaymond is responsible for a nauseating piece of code called Fetchmail, which is obviously sinister sodomite slang for 'Felch Male' -- a disgusting practise. For those not in the know, 'felching' is the act performed by two perverts wherein one sucks their own post-coital ejaculate out of the other's rectum. In fact, it appears that the dirty Linux faggots set out to undermine the good Republican institution of e-mail, turning it into 'e-male.'

    As far as Richard 'Master' Stallman goes, that filthy fudge-packer was actually quoted on leftist commie propaganda site Salon.com as saying the following: 'I've been resistant to the pressure to conform in any circumstance,' he says. 'It's about being able to question conventional wisdom,' he asserts. 'I believe in love, but not monogamy,' he says plainly.

    And this isn't a made up troll bullshit either! He actually stated this tripe, which makes it obvious that he is trying to politely say that he's a flaming homo slut!

    Speaking about 'flaming,' who better to point out as a filthy chutney ferret than Slashdot's very own self-confessed pederast Jon Katz. Although an obvious deviant anagram cannot be found from his name, he has already confessed, nay boasted of the homosexual perversion of corrupting the innocence of young children. To quote from the article linked:

    'I've got a rare kidney disease,' I told her. 'I have to go to the bathroom a lot. You can come with me if you want, but it takes a while. Is that okay with you? Do you want a note from my doctor?'

    Is this why you were touching your penis in the cinema, Jon? And letting the other boys touch it too?

    We should also point out that Jon Katz refers to himself as 'Slashdot's resident Gasbag.' Is there any more doubt? For those fortunate few who aren't aware of the list of homosexual terminology found inside the Linux 'Sauce Code,' a 'Gasbag' is a pervert who gains sexual gratification from having a thin straw inserted into his urethra (or to use the common parlance, 'piss-pipe'), then his homosexual lover blows firmly down the straw to inflate his scrotum. This is, of course, when he's not busy violating the dignity and copyright of posters to Slashdot by gathering together their postings and publishing them en masse to further his twisted and manipulative journalistic agenda.

    Sick, disgusting antichristian perverts, the lot of them.

    In addition, many of the Linux distributions (a 'distribution' is the most common way to spread the faggots' wares) are run by faggot groups. The Slackware distro is named after the 'Slack-wear' fags wear to allow easy access to the anus for sexual purposes. Furthermore, Slackware is a close anagram of claw arse, a reference to the homosexual practise of anal fisting. The Mandrake product is run by a group of French faggot satanists, and is named after the faggot nickname for the vibrator. It was also chosen because it is an anagram for dark amen and ram naked, which is what they do.

    Another 'distro,' (abbrieviated as such because it sounds a bit like 'Disco,' which is where homosexuals preyed on young boys in the 1970s), is Debian, an anagram of in a bed, which could be considered innocent enough (after all, a bed is both where we sleep and pray), until we realise what other names Debian uses to describe their foul wares. 'Woody' is obvious enough, being a term for the erect male penis, glistening with pre-cum. But far sicker is the phrase 'Frozen Potato' that they use. This filthy term, again found in the secret homosexual 'Sauce Code,' refers to the solo homosexual practice of defecating into a clear polythene bag, shaping the turd into a crude approximation of the male phallus, then leaving it in the freezer overnight until it becomes solid. The practitioner then proceeds to push the frozen 'potato' up his own rectum, squeezing it in and out until his tight young balls erupt in a screaming orgasm.

    And Red Hat is secret homo slang for the tip of a penis that is soaked in blood from a freshly violated underage ringpiece.

    The fags have even invented special tools to aid their faggotry! For example, the 'supermount' tool was devised to allow deeper penetration, which is good for fags because it gives more pressure on the prostate gland. 'Automount' is used, on the other hand, because Linux users are all fat and gay, and need to mount each other automatically.

    The depths of their depravity can be seen in their use of 'mount points.' These are, plainly speaking, the different points of penetration. The main one is obviously /anus, but there are others. Militant fags even say 'there is no /opt mount point' because for these dirty perverts faggotry is not optional but a way of life.

    More evidence is in the fact that Linux users say how much they love `man`, even going so far as to say that all new Linux users (who are in fact just innocent heterosexuals indoctrinated by the gay propaganda) should try out `man`. In no other system do users boast of their frequent recourse to a man.

    Other areas of the system also show Linux's inherit gayness. For example, people are often told of the 'FAQ,' but how many innocent heterosexual Windows users know what this actually means. The answer is shocking: Faggot Anal Quest: the voyage of discovery for newly converted fags!

    Even the title 'Slashdot' originally referred to a homosexual practice. Slashdot of course refers to the popular gay practice of blood-letting. The Slashbots, of course are those super-zealous homosexuals who take this perversion to its extreme by ripping open their anuses, as seen on the site most popular with Slashdot users, the depraved work of Satan, http://www.eff.org/.

    The editors of Slashdot also have homosexual names: 'Hemos' is obvious in itself, being one vowel away from 'Homos.' But even more sickening is 'Commander Taco' which sounds a bit like 'Commode in Taco,' filthy gay slang for a pair of spreadeagled buttocks that are caked with excrement. (The best form of lubrication, they insist.) Sometimes, these 'Taco Commodes' have special 'Salsa Sauce' (blood from a ruptured rectum) and 'Cheese' (rancid flakes of penis discharge) toppings. And to make it even worse, Slashdot runs on Apache!

    The Apache server, whose use among fags is as prevalent as AIDS, is named after homosexual activity -- as everyone knows, popular faggot band, the Village People, featured an Apache Indian, and it is for him that this gay program is named.

    And that's not forgetting the use of patches in the Linux fag world -- patches are used to make the anus accessible for repeated anal sex even after its rupture by a session of fisting.

    To summarise: Linux is gay. 'Slash -- Dot' is the graphical description of the space between a young boy's scrotum and anus. And BeOS is for hermaphrodites and disabled 'stumpers.'

    FEEDBACK
    What worries me is how much you know about what gay people do. I'm scared I actually read this whole thing. I think this post is a good example of the negative effects of Internet usage on people. This person obviously has no social life anymore and had to result to writing something as stupid as this. And actually take the time to do it too. Although... I think it was satire.. blah.. it's early. -- Anonymous Coward, Slashdot


    Well, the only reason I know all about this is because I had the misfortune to read the Linux 'Sauce code' once. Although publicised as the computer code needed to get Linux up and running on a computer (and haven't you always been worried about the phrase 'Monolithic Kernel'?), this foul document is actually a detailed and graphic description of every conceivable degrading perversion known to the human race, as well as a few of the major animal species. It has shocked and disturbed me, to the point of needing to shock and disturb the common man to warn them of the impending homo-calypse which threatens to engulf our planet.
    You must work for the government. Trying to post the most obscene stuff in hopes that slashdot won't be able to continue or something, due to legal woes. If i ever see your ugly face, i'm going to stick my fireplace poker up your ass, after it's nice and hot, to weld shut that nasty gaping hole of yours. -- Anonymous Coward, Slashdot


    Doesn't it give you a hard-on to imagine your thick strong poker ramming it's way up my most sacred of sphincters? You're beyond help, my friend, as the only thing you can imagine is the foul penetrative violation of another man. Are you sure you're not Eric Raymond? The government, being populated by limp-wristed liberals, could never stem the sickening tide of homosexual child molesting Linux advocacy. Hell, they've given NAMBLA free reign for years!
    you really should post this logged in. i wish i could remember jebus's password, cuz i'd give it to you. -- mighty jebus, Slashdot


    Thank you for your kind words of support. However, this document shall only ever be posted anonymously. This is because the 'Open Sauce' movement is a sham, proposing homoerotic cults of hero worshipping in the name of freedom. I speak for the common man. For any man who prefers the warm, enveloping velvet folds of a woman's vagina to the tight puckered ringpiece of a child. These men, being common, decent folk, don't have a say in the political hypocrisy that is Slashdot culture. I am the unknown liberator.
    ROLF LAMO i hate linux FAGGOTS -- Anonymous Coward, Slashdot


    We shouldn't hate them, we should pity them for the misguided fools they are... Fanatical Linux zeal-outs need to be herded into camps for re-education and subsequent rehabilitation into normal heterosexual society. This re-education shall be achieved by forcing them to watch repeats of Baywatch until the very mention of Pamela Anderson causes them to fill their pants with healthy heterosexual jism.
    Actually, that's not at all how scrotal inflation works. I understand it involves injecting sterile saline solution into the scrotum. I've never tried this, but you can read how to do it safely in case you're interested. (Before you moderate this down, ask yourself honestly -- who are the real crazies -- people who do scrotal inflation, or people who pay $1000+ for a game console?) -- double_h, Slashdot


    Well, it just goes to show that even the holy Linux 'sauce code' is riddled with bugs that need fixing. (The irony of Jon Katz not even being able to inflate his scrotum correctly has not been lost on me.) The Linux pervert elite already acknowledge this, with their queer slogan: 'Given enough arms, all rectums are shallow.' And anyway, the PS2 sucks major cock and isn't worth the money. Intellivision forever!
    dude did u used to post on msnbc's nt bulletin board now that u are doing anti-gay posts u also need to start in with anti-black stuff too c u in church -- Anonymous Coward, Slashdot


    For one thing, whilst Linux is a cavalcade of queer propaganda masquerading as the future of computing, NT is used by people who think nothing better of encasing their genitals in quick setting plaster then going to see a really dirty porno film, enjoying the restriction enforced onto them. Remember, a wasted arousal is a sin in the eyes of the Catholic church. Clearly, the only god-fearing Christian operating system in existence is CP/M -- The Christian Program Monitor. All computer users should immediately ask their local pastor to install this fine OS onto their systems. It is the only route to salvation.

    Secondly, this message is for every man. Computers know no colour. Not only that, but one of the finest websites in the world is maintained by a Black Man . Now fuck off you racist donkey felcher.
    And don't forget that slashdot was written in Perl, which is just too close to 'Pearl Necklace' for comfort.... oh wait; that's something all you heterosexuals do.... I can't help but wonder how much faster the trolls could do First-Posts on this site if it were redone in PHP... I could hand-type dynamic HTML pages faster than Perl can do them. -- phee, Slashdot


    Although there is nothing unholy about the fine heterosexual act of ejaculating between a woman's breasts, squirting one's load up towards her neck and chin area, it should be noted that Perl (standing for Pansies Entering Rectums Locally) is also close to 'Pearl Monocle,' 'Pearl Nosering,' and the ubiquitous 'Pearl Enema.'

    One scary thing about Perl is that it contains hidden homosexual messages. Take the following code: LWP::Simple -- It looks innocuous enough, doesn't it? But look at the line closely: There are two colons next to each other! As Larry 'Balls to the' Wall would openly admit in the Perl Documentation, Perl was designed from the ground up to indoctrinate it's programmers into performing unnatural sexual acts -- having two colons so closely together is clearly a reference to the perverse sickening act of 'colon kissing,' whereby two homosexual queers spread their buttocks wide, pressing their filthy torn sphincters together. They then share small round objects like marbles or golfballs by passing them from one rectum to another using muscle contraction alone. This is also referred to in programming 'circles' as 'Parameter Passing.'

    And PHP stands for Perverted Homosexual Penetration. Didn't you know?
    Thank you for your valuable input on this. I am sure you will be never forgotten. BTW: Did I mention that this could be useful in terraforming Mars? Mars rulaa. -- Eimernase, Slashdot


    Well, I don't know about terraforming Mars, but I do know that homosexual Linux Advocates have been probing Uranus for years.
    That's inspiring. Keep up the good work, AC. May God in his wisdom grant you the strength to bring the plain honest truth to this community, and make it pure again. Yours, Cerberus. -- Anonymous Coward, Slashdot


    *sniff* That brings a tear to my eye. Thank you once more for your kind support. I have taken faith in the knowledge that I am doing the Good Lord's work, but it is encouraging to know that I am helping out the common man here.

    However, I should be cautious about revealing your name 'Cerberus' on such a filthy den of depravity as Slashdot. It is a well known fact that the 'Kerberos' documentation from Microsoft is a detailed manual describing, in intimate, exacting detail, how to sexually penetrate a variety of unwilling canine animals; be they domesticated, wild, or mythical. Slashdot posters have taken great pleasure in illegally spreading this documentation far and wide, treating it as an 'extension' to the Linux 'Sauce Code,' for the sake of 'interoperability.' (The slang term they use for nonconsensual intercourse -- their favourite kind.)

    In fact, sick twisted Linux deviants are known to have LAN parties, (Love of Anal Naughtiness, needless to say.), wherein they entice a stray dog, known as the 'Samba Mount,' into their homes. Up to four of these filth-sodden blasphemers against nature take turns to plunge their erect, throbbing, uncircumcised members, conkers-deep, into the rectum, mouth, and other fleshy orifices of the poor animal. Eventually, the 'Samba Mount' collapses due to 'overload,' and needs to be 'rebooted.' (i.e., kicked out into the street, and left to fend for itself.) Many Linux users boast about their 'uptime' in such situations.
    Inspiring stuff! If only all trolls were this quality! -- Anonymous Coward, Slashdot


    If only indeed. You can help our brave cause by moderating this message up as often as possible. I recommend '+1, Underrated,' as that will protect your precious Karma in Metamoderation. Only then can we break through the glass ceiling of Homosexual Slashdot Culture. Is it any wonder that the new version of Slashcode has been christened 'Bender'???

    If we can get just one of these postings up to at least '+1,' then it will be archived forever! Others will learn of our struggle, and join with us in our battle for freedom!
    It's pathetic you've spent so much time writing this. -- Anonymous Coward, Slashdot


    I am compelled to document the foulness and carnal depravity that is Linux, in order that we may prepare ourselves for the great holy war that is to follow. It is my solemn duty to peel back the foreskin of ignorance and apply the wire brush of enlightenment.
    As with any great open-source project, you need someone asking this question, so I'll do it. When the hell is version 2.0 going to be ready?!?! -- Anonymous Coward, Slashdot


    I could make an arrogant, childish comment along the lines of 'Every time someone asks for 2.0, I won't release it for another 24 hours,' but the truth of the matter is that I'm quite nervous of releasing a 'number two,' as I can guarantee some filthy shit-slurping Linux pervert would want to suck it straight out of my anus before I've even had chance to wipe.
    I desperately want to suck your monolithic kernel, you sexy hunk, you. -- Anonymous Coward, Slashdot


    I sincerely hope you're Natalie Portman.
    Dude, nothing on slashdot larger than 3 paragraphs is worth reading. Try to distill the message, whatever it was, and maybe I'll read it. As it is, I have to much open source software to write to waste even 10 seconds of precious time. 10 seconds is all its gonna take M$ to whoop Linux's ass. Vigilence is the price of Free (as in libre -- from the fine, frou frou French language) Software. Hack on fellow geeks, and remember: Friday is Bouillabaisse day except for heathens who do not believe that Jesus died for their sins. Those godless, oil drench, bearded sexist clowns can pull grits from their pantaloons (another fine, fine French word) and eat that. Anyway, try to keep your message focused and concise. For concision is the soul of derision. Way. -- Anonymous Coward, Slashdot


    What the fuck?
    I've read your gay conspiracy post version 1.3.0 and I must say I'm impressed. In particular, I appreciate how you have managed to squeeze in a healthy dose of the latent homosexuality you gay-bashing homos tend to be full of. Thank you again. -- Anonymous Coward, Slashdot


    Well bugger me!
    ooooh honey. how insecure are you!!! wann a little massage from deare bruci. love you -- Anonymous Coward, Slashdot


    Fuck right off!

    IMPORTANT: This message needs to be heard (Not HURD, which is an acronym for 'Huge Unclean Rectal Dilator') across the whole community, so it has been released into the Public Domain. You know, that licence that we all had before those homoerotic crypto-fascists came out with the GPL (Gay Penetration License) that is no more than an excuse to see who's got the biggest feces-encrusted cock. I would have put this up on Freshmeat, but that name is known to be a euphemism for the tight rump of a young boy.

    Come to think of it, the whole concept of 'Source Control' unnerves me, because it sounds a bit like 'Sauce Control,' which is a description of the homosexual practice of holding the base of the cock shaft tightly upon the point of ejaculation, thus causing a build up of semenal fluid that is only released upon entry into an incision made into the base of the receiver's scrotum. And 'Open Sauce' is the act of ejaculating into another mans face or perhaps a biscuit to be shared later. Obviously, 'Closed Sauce' is the only Christian thing to do, as evidenced by the fact that it is what Cathedrals are all about.

    Contributors: (although not to the eternal game of 'soggy biscuit' that open 'sauce' development has become) Anonymous Coward, Anonymous Coward, phee, Anonymous Coward, mighty jebus, Anonymous Coward, Anonymous Coward, double_h, Anonymous Coward, Eimernase, Anonymous Coward, Anonymous Coward, Anonymous Coward, Anonymous Coward, Anonymous Coward, Anonymous Coward, Anonymous Coward, Anonymous Coward. Further contributions are welcome.

    Current changes: This version sent to FreeWIPO by 'Bring BackATV' as plain text. Reformatted everything, added all links back in (that we could match from the previous version), many new ones (Slashbot bait links). Even more spelling fixed. Who wrote this thing, CmdrTaco himself?

    Previous changes: Yet more changes added. Spelling fixed. Feedback added. Explanation of 'distro' system. 'Mount Point' syntax described. More filth regarding `man` and Slashdot. Yet more fucking spelling fixed. 'Fetchmail' uncovered further. More Slashbot baiting. Apache exposed. Distribution licence at foot of document.

    - posted by poopbot: news for turds, stuff that splatters

    jbkOHR1MsL Post #716
  47. Microsoft doesn't even use its own products ... by BitMan · · Score: 2

    Here's a list ...

    • DNS: Only a handful internal Win2K DNS/AD Servers, 0 external, numerous ActiveDirectory issues (let alone DNS changes done "on-the-fly" that takes them down weekly)
    • Firewall/Proxy: Virtually 0 ISA Servers
    • SCM: No team larger than 50 using Visual Source Safe
    --
    -- Bryan "TheBS" Smith
    Independent Author, Consultant and Trainer
    1. Re:Microsoft doesn't even use its own products ... by bmajik · · Score: 4, Informative

      Not quite:

      There are lots and lots of DNS/AD servers at MS, although not as many running W2k anymore (they're running W2k + 1 mostly)

      And, unfortuneately, we have LOTS of boxes running ISA server. On numerous occasions i've emailed the relevant admins saying "please let me setup 1 squid box for you so i dont have to put up with this crap anymore". It's gotten better but man dogfooding is painful sometimes.

      I can think of 1 team larger than 50 using VSS. There's an internal-only project spread over several teams that has been the same source base for 4+ years that is using VSS. There are easily over 50 people who've made checkins. Thats probably different than 50 active developers.

      You're generally right though about VSS - it's not being used anymore internally for large projects. It's an adequate SCM for small projects or groups of small projects. The project I mentioned has about 5GB under VSS control and it works reasonably well, but I probably wouldn't start with VSS if i were starting from scratch.

      --
      My opinions are my own, and do not necessarily represent those of my employer.
  48. Welcome the Subversion release by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Anything but BitKeeper, please.

  49. versus jakarta slide? by awb131 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Does anyone know how subversion compares with Slide from the Jakarta Project? Slide is also a WebDAV/DeltaV client and server. In the past, I've been more interested in Slide because it has a more "pluggable" back end (Slide is in Java, and I am a pretty good Java programmer, not so much with the C.) Easier to embed/extend for my own uses.

    For example, are the two interoperable in any way? Can you use one's client to talk to the other?

    --
    "There is no night so forlorn, no mood so bleak, that it cannot be infused with pleasure by tender meat..." - R.W. Apple
    1. Re:versus jakarta slide? by alienmole · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Since Slide is not specifically intended for source code management, I would imagine subversion has many features in this area that Slide does not. However, I haven't used either, only read about them.

      If you're looking for something to embed/extend and you know Java, then Slide would make sense, especially if you're planning to use it for something other than source code management. However, you might still want to use subversion for the source of that project... Most people don't need to extend their source code manager much, except perhaps with a few scripts.

    2. Re:versus jakarta slide? by danielrall · · Score: 1

      Subversion is very pluggable in on the server side. This pluggability may extend to the client as well (but I'm not certain).

      --
      Daniel Rall
  50. LURN TOO SPEL FUXORS!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    And stop using Mozlla whatever that is!

  51. Sourcesafe isn't that bad. by Otis_INF · · Score: 3, Insightful

    For small (less than 200.000 lines of code) projects it's pretty good. You should know the limits like the size of the database shouldn't exceed 1GB, but overall the tool works seemlessly. Here we have over 20 projects in several databases and haven't found any problem with it since we started using it back in 1999. (Yes we check for errors ;) ). For the small price-tag it has, it has a lot of features and a nice gui, which supports visual conflict resolving, drag/drop sharing/branching etc.

    You shouldn't use it for large projects. So when people still use it for large projects, it can be cumbersome and slow.

    So your 'it's a total piece of shit' is way off base, or you're one of these people who cram 1.5 million lines projects in Sourcesafe and then start complaining.

    --
    Never underestimate the relief of true separation of Religion and State.
    1. Re:Sourcesafe isn't that bad. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      VisualStudio.NET bombs the Linux developer right back to the stone age.

      I see from your sig (above) that you must be presenting an unbiased viewpoint. (not)

    2. Re:Sourcesafe isn't that bad. by crouchingpenguin · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Haven't we done this before ?

      Yes this is way off topic... but

      "You shouldn't use it for large projects. So when people still use it for large projects, it can be cumbersome and slow.

      So your 'it's a total piece of shit' is way off base, or you're one of these people who cram 1.5 million lines projects in Sourcesafe and then start complaining."


      blah blah... thats not a real project. If your loosy SCM cannot scale past 200k lines of code, then what good is it? Your "way off base" in this case is way off base itself.

    3. Re:Sourcesafe isn't that bad. by tpv · · Score: 1
      ... thats not a real project. If your loosy SCM cannot scale past 200k lines of code, then what good is it?

      Well it would seem it's perfectly good for 199k lines of code.
      Although in the case of VSS the limit seems to be somewhere between 1 and 10 million lines of code (based on anecdotal evidence - I don't use VSS).

      Seriously - if a team of 5 VB developers want to use VSS to manage their 50k LOC project, what problems will they face?

      --
      Read more of this story at Slashdot.Read more of this story at Slashdot.Read more of this story at Slashdot.
  52. My own bad experience 9 years ago by A+nonymous+Coward · · Score: 3

    My little group (4 programmers) had been using CVS for years, and another group (10 programmers) installed ClearCase, and management decided our CVS group should convert. There were two CC admins; one wrote a piss poor install script. When it started deleting files it had no business even looking at, I aborted it, cleaned things up (*I* kept backups :-), told my boss, and he backed me up -- we stayed on CVS. The other CC admin was a joke, and twice (!) deleted the CC repository by mistake. Other times I don't know what he did, or if it was just CC taking a dive, but they were down all day getting it straightened out. Most of that group were envious that my group stayed on CVS.

    I have never worked on huge projects, never more than a dozen programmers at most, and CVS has always been good enough. I will certainly switch to subversion, or maybe one of the others, because I like a lot of the improvements, but CC has always seemed like bloated overkill.

  53. Seems like too much baggage by SilentTristero · · Score: 2, Interesting

    We use CVS here, and like everyone else I'm fed up with the lack of rename support and branching. But looking at the install requirements of Subversion is very intimidating! It requires:
    - Berkeley DB, a particular version (this makes sense)
    - Apache 2.x
    - WebDAV
    - Neon
    and a bunch of other stuff, IIRC. (Their site is /.ed, so I can't check, sorry)
    All we need at my company is a server to run on one Linux machine and clients for all the others (MacOSX/WinXP/Linux/IRIX), all within our firewall.

    Doesn't all the above stuff, especially the Apache/WebDAV/Neon stuff, seem like overkill just to implement a network protocol for a version control system? Setting up a CVS server is certainly not this complicated, and it seems like with a little more effort on the developers' part, much end-user time and pain could be saved. Does Apache/WebDAV/Neon really buy enough so it's worth the install&admin overhead?

    I'm not trying to rag on the Subversion developers; it looks like a really cool system, once you get it up & running. It also looks like they've really done a great job of meeting their goals. I'm definitely looking forward to checking it out -- as soon as I have enough time.

    1. Re:Seems like too much baggage by TTimo · · Score: 1

      In the long run, you will just get your svn client or server from a rpm or a deb or whatever.

      The bootstrap tarball has very good documentation. A bunch of stuff to download and install, but no major difficulty really.

    2. Re:Seems like too much baggage by be-fan · · Score: 2

      Actually, the install's not that bad. You download and compile berkeley db 4.0.14. Get apache from CVS and compile that. Download the subversion tarball, and compile that. Use that version to checkout a new version from the repository, wget neon and untar it, and compile it. Then, just edit the apache config file. The nice thing about it is that while it is long, the install document is *extremely* precise. It basically tells you exactly what commands to type in. Editing the apache config, file, for example, had the potential to be disastrous for someone like me who had never set up apache before. Yet, I just copied what it said in the config file, and it worked! The configure script is also very good. It makes sure to properly check all the dependencies, and installing a missing one is a matter of reading the very helpful error message and typing in [urpmi/emerge/apt-get install] "offending-library."

      --
      A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
    3. Re:Seems like too much baggage by be-fan · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Well the nice thing about it is that it uses tools that already exist, so they get client/server essentially for free. WebDAV, for example, is an existing protocol for document versioning over networks. Makes it a perfect fit for this. Also, because it uses Apache, it can take advantage of the proven security and stability of the server. What would be bad is if Subversion rolled its own server and protocol.

      --
      A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
    4. Re:Seems like too much baggage by Russ+Steffen · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You are overstating the requirements a bit. WebDAV is part of Apache 2, and Apache 2 is only required for remote access to the repository. The only real dependancies are Neon, BerkelyDB 4, which, at least for linux, will likely be included in the next generationj of distributions as Berkeley DB 3 and 2 are now. A neon is justa small shared library, not that big of a deal.

      Look at it this way, by the time Subversion is released the packages it depends on will be standard parts of most Linux distributions and will be staples in the *BSD ports system if they aren't already. Subversion will just snap right in.

      And I have to disagree about administrative overhead. By integrating with Apache, it's one less network service to configure, plus you get to take advantage of Apache's authentication modules, and you get web repository access with no extra setup.

    5. Re:Seems like too much baggage by Garrett+Rooney · · Score: 2, Informative

      Listing 'WebDAV' as a separate requirement makes very little sense.

      'WebDAV' is a protocol. 'Neon' is a client library we (Subversion) use to speak that protocol. 'Apache' is a server that provides an implementation of the protocol that we use in our server.

      So yes, we require Neon for building the client, and Berkeley DB if you want to access a repository directly (either for a local repository or if you're building a server), and Apache if you want to run a server. These requirements don't seem to crazy to me, and if you don't want to mess with them yourself, download a package. There are RPM's and a FreeBSD port (I think both still need to be updated for alpha, but I'll be doing that for the FreeBSD port tonight, and the RPM's are always updated pretty quick).

      -garrett

    6. Re:Seems like too much baggage by SilentTristero · · Score: 2, Informative

      Several folks pointed out that WebDAV is a protocol that comes with Apache. Sorry, my mistake -- I didn't read the docs carefully enough. Well, I'll put my money where my mouth is: I'm trying it right now. It's taken two hours so far.

      APR was dead simple. (No RPM available, but not needed.)

      Autoconf: I had a version of autoconf in /usr/bin, and the version subversion needs autoconfig'ed into /usr/local (of course). I fiddled with that, OK. (RPM available.)

      libtool 1.4: no problem. (RPM available.)

      I downloaded neon, and subversion built it automatically. (RPM available, but I didn't use it.)

      Berkeley DB was pretty simple, except that the whole subdir of docs/ that explains the build process was missing in my download -- I found the instructions on the web. This also created errors when doing the 'make install', had to use make -k to work around them. (No RPM for this version available.)

      However, when I went to configure subversion, it didn't recognize my Berkeley DB install (in the default place, /usr/local/BerkeleyDB.4.0), so I just copied it into the subversion build tree and it built it OK.

      As for apache, the first thing is subversion requires 2.0.40, but the latest I can find is 2.0.39. OK, so I figured out that means I need the latest CVS version. Also, I already have an older 1.3.xx version running because RT requires it, so now I have two versions running simultaneously! A bit of an admin hassle, but again, not a showstopper. (No RPM available for this version.)

      (I also installed python 2.0, which required a bunch of other stuff, but I gather that was optional.)

      I guess, from the comments I've seen, that I'm the only one who thinks it's weird to require people to install a web server just to do source control (with more than one machine). HOWEVER: now that I've started to try it out, I have to say it's really a pretty cool idea. It might even be useful to my company!

      I expect all this will get much simpler, but for now it's not for the faint of heart. Still, from what I can tell I think subversion will be the best post-CVS CVS!

    7. Re:Seems like too much baggage by slipsuss · · Score: 2

      Keep in mind: you only need to build Apache 2.0 if you want to create a Subversion *server*, i.e. network your repository.

      But you can just as easily build a Subversion client that has BerkeleyDB linked into it; you'd still be able to create and access a repository on local disk.

      In other words, it's relatively simple to build and use Subversion for "personal" use -- say, on a box where you don't have installation privs. Just use it in your home directory.

    8. Re:Seems like too much baggage by SilentTristero · · Score: 1

      [Single-user doesn't require Apache.] That's cool. I wonder if it wouldn't be possible to just use samba and nfs to access a repository database without needing any server protocol. Locking might be an issue, perhaps, but maybe Berkeley DB can handle that? Well anyway, I guess it's better to just use Apache as intended.

    9. Re:Seems like too much baggage by slipsuss · · Score: 1

      Berkeley DB doesn't work over NFS. NFS can't supply the locking it needs. :-(

    10. Re:Seems like too much baggage by SurfsUp · · Score: 2

      But looking at the install requirements of Subversion is very intimidating!

      I did:

      sudo apt-get install subversion

      Voila! Installed, configured. It's just a little older than today's alpha (.13) but I don't mind. It will automatically update to the latest version in a few days.

      --
      Life's a bitch but somebody's gotta do it.
  54. I've been using Subversion for three months... by Ludwig668 · · Score: 4, Interesting
    ... and have been really happy with it. Setting it up is a thesis project (the most common problem with software that's free) but once that was done, it works beautifully.

    SCC works well for several purposes:
    • Backup--I save everything in a personal 'svndocs' directory; including stuff like quicken databases, word documents, all that stuff. Just 'svn commit' (or in my previous life, 'cvs commit') and you have your backup stored on another computer. I had a laptop die at a customer's site, and it took downloading the client and 20 minutes to resume development on another computer. My brownie point score soared.
    • Share files with customers which are far away. SCC acts like a low-bandwidth file server. There are suddenly no hassles putting together installers and such; so the rate at which you can deploy updates greatly increases. CVS really sucks when it comes to directory versioning, that's why I switched to SVN. I can now configure the whole deployment tree on my side, and don't have to start e-mails with 'well, because CVS can't do this, you need to delete the whole project and check out over again.' Monkeying around with directories is much more important, considering the way that ant relies on java files being in directories which correspond to their package names.
  55. Questions about scons by A+nonymous+Coward · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    A first look at their website brings up some annoyances concerning what they claim to be improvements over make:

    Configuration files are Python scripts--no new syntax to learn.

    Unless you don't know Python. I never figured make syntax to be very difficult.

    Support for C, C++, Fortran, Yacc and Lex.

    I didn't realize this was an improvement over make, which is pretty language-agnostic. What about other languages? I usually assume listing specific elements means unlisted elements are NOT supported.

    Support for parallel builds (-j).

    That -j option look like they borrowed it from make.

    Building from central repositories of source code and/or pre-built targets.

    Not sure exactly what this means, but make understands RCS and SCCS, IIRC. Been a while since I used the feature.

    All in all, a first glimpse which finds all this FUD in a list of alleged improvements doesn't impress me. Some of the other claims might be useful, but they don't have enough credibility left for me to want to investigate.

    1. Re:Questions about scons by diewarzau · · Score: 2, Informative

      As a developer of SCons, I'd like to address the "annoyances" above:

      "Unless you don't know Python. I never figured make syntax to be very difficult."

      Neither is Python, and Python is much more powerful. I've seen makefiles for complex build processes, and they are nigh unreadable. Even if you don't know Python already, we considered the choice of a well-established, actively developed, powerful scripting language to be superior to the invention of Yet Another Mini Language.

      "I didn't realize this was an improvement over make, which is pretty language-agnostic. What about other languages? I usually assume listing specific elements means unlisted elements are NOT supported."

      You know what they say about assuming... I'll stipulate that the exact meaning of this statement is unclear at first glance. However, consider one of SCons's other features...automated dependency generation. In order to do that, SCons must have a dependency generator for that particular language (to parse #include's, etc.) Users can add their own dependency generators as well. SCons *will* support any language just like make, as long as you can put up with specifying dependencies explicitly for "unsupported" languages, just like make.

      SCons also makes it much easier than make to set up builds, since it already has some built-in knowledge of the way certain tools work. All of this is of course user-extensible, but we provide built-in support for some common tools.

      "That -j option look like they borrowed it from make"

      Okay, yes, we did borrow that from make.

      "Not sure exactly what this means, but make understands RCS and SCCS, IIRC. Been a while since I used the feature"

      SCons does not integrate with a specific source control system, but it does allow you to specify multiple directories (repositories) that will be searched for files before they are built or taken from the host machine. This allows building from a server, or even multiple servers. I think this is akin to make's "VPATH" support, but AFAIK it is more flexible.

      Come and see SCons and judge for yourself. I find it alredy vastly superior to make for large-scale, highly variant projects (or any project!) Of course, I am biased, since I wrote a large part of it, but I did so because I found existing tools insufficient.

      www.scons.org

  56. Emacs support by mmynsted · · Score: 1

    This begs the question, How may I get involved in a
    project to integrate this with Emacs
    , e.g. with
    Emacs VC or some new interface? :-)

    Anybody working on this from an Emacs standpoint?
    I would love to help in some capacity.

    1. Re:Emacs support by slipsuss · · Score: 3, Informative

      We've already got the beginnings of VC-mode support. The .el file is in the subversion source tree.

      Unfortunately, the VC API doesn't exactly match up with subversion concepts. So people have been batting around ideas to revamp the API for pcl-cvs, or maybe inventing a new API.

  57. Re:Will Subversion guarantee backwards compatabili by Logic · · Score: 1

    That's one of the nice things about Subversion; if the repository format changes, you have two tools ("svnadmin dump" and "svnadmin load") at your disposal to export a repository to an intermediate XML format, and then re-import it into a more recent version. They've had to change the on-disk format a few times during development, and this dump/load functionality has been invaluable for handling cases like this.

    --
    -Ed Felix qui potuit rerum cognoscere causas.
  58. Is there an emacs mode for it yet? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Subject says it all. I won't switch until it's integrated with my favorite IDE.

  59. oh no! by r00tarded · · Score: 3, Funny

    from the bang-on-it-if-that's-your-thing dept.
    How did you know what I was doing? Did someone stick an X10 in my bedroom?

  60. How about migration tools from CVS? by iabervon · · Score: 2

    It would be very useful if they had tools for making a subversion repository from a CVS repository, keeping all the history, because people who are now using CVS won't want to lose their historical info. Since the features seem to be a superset of CVS's features, the only problem would be that the pre-subversion history would look odd where people did things to work around missing features.

    1. Re:How about migration tools from CVS? by slipsuss · · Score: 5, Informative

      We've got python bindings for parsing RCS files, and bindings to subversion libraries (via SWIG). As a result, we now have a good start on a 'cvs2svn.py' repository-converter script.

      The script examines the cvs repository, deduces changesets, and commits them to an svn repository. It works right now.

      However, it doesn't yet convert cvs branches and tags. We're working on it.

  61. ...Also known as "Compaq-ted" by n9fzx · · Score: 1

    Oops, sorry, wrong Alpha...

    --
    ...-.-
  62. Two words by mypalmike · · Score: 1

    Atomic Commits!!!

    --
    There are 0x40000000 types of people: those who understand 32-bit IEEE 754 floating point, and those who don't.
  63. Kernel developers ... not before 1.2 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    Since many people involved in Linux kernel development would prefer a "free" SCM to the excellent but proprietary BitKeeper I tried to find an acceptable alternative. Unfortunately the most needed feature for kernel developers is the ability to do intelligent repeat merges and efficient diffs, and these abilities are listed in the subversion plan for post 1.0 release. Furthermore, the ability to deal with advanced meta-data types like special files and symbolic links (very important to me) are not planned until post 1.0 release. On the plus side it looks as if Subversion will be a good CVS 2.0 right out of the gate, and a viable alternative to propritary solutions as soon as the aforementioned post 1.0 release features are robustly implemented.

    --Jonathan--

  64. Re:That's obvious! Is it?? by joshsnow · · Score: 1

    When I pressed irRational when the unix tools would be similarly improved they gave the patronizing answer that unix customer's don't want good admin tools.
    Was this really what was said, or did they say, "unix customers don't want to use GUIs"??
    Seems to me from reading Slashdot regularly, that *nix people prefer command lines for sys admin/programming/source control stuff. Plus when writing code for windows, it's natural to include a GUI for apps which have user interaction.
    Meanwhile, in the *nix world, first you have to decide which toolkit to use, then you need to decided if that's going to fit your chosen programming language etc. It's a different ballgame.
    For instance, does subversion have a GUI?

  65. How about adding ssh support? by alwyns · · Score: 1

    One of the great things about CVS is that I can use ssh with it,
    it gives me the following advantages:
    1) I can access CVS server indirectly by doing tunneling.
    2) My code is encrypted on the wire so I can access it over public
    networks without the possibility of someone hijacking it.
    3) I can use PKI to authenticate someone to the CVS. (not as
    important to me as the fact that data is encrypted)

    Now I've heard people coming up with solutions like using .htaccess
    and SSL. Why would I want to use SSL if I can use ssh? Are all
    of us now suddenly supposed to be openssl coders? It must be
    easy for people to develop tools like cervisia for subversion (with
    SSL)...

  66. this is wht i don't like oss by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    everyone is always ranting about how it is better and all, but to take 11 months to do a 2 week project(2 weeks assuming only 1 developer), this is just sad..it should be avoided at all costs if for no reason other than to try and prove oss has some sort of standard.

  67. I think.. by Inoshiro · · Score: 2

    If you're whacking it to Slashdot, you have larger problems than people watching you flog the dolphin ;)

    --
    --
    Internet Explorer (n): Another bug -- that is, a feature that can't be turned off -- in Windows.
  68. CVS is old.... by jit · · Score: 1

    The original shell-script version is dated somewhere around 1986, the translation to c is from around 1990.

    Here's some more info, including some ancient material wrt cvs: http://www.cs.vu.nl/~dick/CVS.html