Slashdot Mirror

← Back to Stories (view on slashdot.org)

Xbox Security Keys Changed

Posted by ryuzaki0 on from the this-loop-will-keep-playing dept.

anth writes: "A couple a months ago we discussed some reverse engineering of the Xbox which discovered the security code. The last paragraph of this letter from Nvidia says MS changed the code, and that they had to write off chips with old code as a result."

14 of 245 comments (clear)

  1. Hrmmm... by vofka · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Surely the nVidia Lawyer types should have seen this kind of thing coming, and keeping that in mind, should have built a clause into their contract with Micro$haft stating that they would receive a certain acceptable minimum notice of a Code-Change, so that the manufacturing losses (and hence financial losses) were minimised?

    Hindsight, it seems, once again has 20-20 vision!

    --
    Disclaimer: I meant what I thought, not what I wrote! What? You can't read my Mind? Oh dear!
    1. Re:Hrmmm... by SmallFurryCreature · · Score: 3, Interesting
      The lawyers probably would have seen had the glaring dollars signs from the sales people not blinded them. The Desktop GIANT planting an order 6 million + chips? Even if the lawyers saw it anything they said would have been drowned out be the cash registers.

      The odd thing is that their tech guys didn't spot this. After all why should the graphics ship have the code hardcoded in it?

      --

      MMO Quests are like orgasms:

      You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.

    2. Re:Hrmmm... by geirhe · · Score: 3, Interesting
      The odd thing is that their tech guys didn't spot this. After all why should the graphics ship have the code hardcoded in it?
      Power consumption.
      Speed.
      Ease of programming.

      The reasons for putting things in microcode or hardware are not hard to see if you are an ASIC designer.

  2. This is a nice move from Microsoft by JFMulder · · Score: 4, Interesting

    If for the software this changes nothing (and probably does, after all, the games must still play on the console), it probably changes something in the MOD chip. So that means that the new XBOX that is shipped will not be compatible with the old mocdhips. The result? MOD Chip installers will have to thrown away their old supply of mod chips to make new ones, unless there's a simple way to change the keys in the MOD chip. This is surely going to hurt the mod chip companies who will have to throw away their old mod chips and buy new ones. If Microsoft keeps changing the keys in the hardware often enough, the mod chippers are going to run in a lot of troubles determining which mod chip is needed for which XBOX. This is a brilliant move.

    1. Re:This is a nice move from Microsoft by SN74S181 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Does anybody have the code from the MOD chips in downloadable form, so we can evaluate it for ourselves? Usually it's just some PIC embedded controller or an FPGA. There should be a site where the code can be downloaded for free and people with the tools can make their own Mod chips.

      Or are the Mod chips protected by 'security through obscurity' and hardware locks? If so, isn't that kind of ironic?

    2. Re:This is a nice move from Microsoft by xenocide2 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Usually you don't publish your MOD chip schematics, to prevent exactly that. They're not terribly worried about reverse engineering, as if you could do the job, you'd probably profit more from reverse engineering the xbox instead ;). So yea its security through obscurity, but they're not going for a secure modchip really. Just one that they alone can sell to the masses.

      --
      I Browse at +4 Flamebait

      Open Source Sysadmin

    3. Re:This is a nice move from Microsoft by shepd · · Score: 2, Interesting

      This strategy never stopped people hacking the PS2 (why does slashdot cover's M$s XBOX more than the PS2?)
      In fact, installers like the occasional change. It helps them move old hacked console stock (well, at least in the case of the PS2, where a hacked console usually remains a hacked console). Next, it increases the price of the new modchips to unbelieveable levels (another source of income) and, lastly, increases the price of older, cheaper to hack consoles.

      Yay! M$ helps pirates make more money again! Woohoo! What do you think will happen next? They'll price their games outside the reach of the expert buyer just like they did with Win XP Professional and M$ office Professional to ensure more piracy?
      This is almost as intelligent as when Homer J. Simpson decided not to buy the $0.50 washer from the plumber.

      --
      If you could be told what you can see or read, then it follows that you could be told what to say or think - BoC
  3. OpenXbox - PC - Bioxx by nesthigh · · Score: 3, Interesting
    I wonder if this will have any affect on this soon to be realeased product. It's supposed to be bios upgradable.

    Have a look here: Open Xbox - PC - Bioxx

    Odd that it's just now coming out, eh? ;-)

    Next

  4. Random observations. by secondsun · · Score: 4, Interesting

    This really sucks for Nvidia. They had the Xbox chips ready to go and MS, instead of using up the current supply and then transitioning, forces Nvidia to scrap the line and go with their newly resecured chips.

    An analagy to this would be if MS upgraded our operating system in the run of the night and billed us for it; even though we did not consent for them to do this.

    What is really funny is that modding consoles does no damage to the companies bottom line. MS makes money from developer fees, developers make money from the games they sell, and hackers get to have fun and maybe download a hacked game. (this assumes they have a dvd burner, which many don't). By doing this MS has made the XBOX look bad to hardware devlopers [who loose when they have to scrap technology], software developers [wouldn't want MS to change something games rely on], and the tech elite[who don't like MS anyway].

    Of course this really doesn't matter much when it comes to Xbox sales and games. As the old sayings go, the games speak for themselves. Too bad the Xbox family lacks vocal cords.

    Secondsun

    --
    There is nothing wrong with being gay. It's getting caught where the trouble lies.
  5. Labeling circuits by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    One thing I never understood is why do companies label all the circuits and chips that they put out for productions. I can't think of any reason that a consumer would want the model/serial number of the chips on the printed board, or information about which control lines do what. This only helps in reverse engineering, which most companies do not want. Wouldn't it make more sense to paint with an opaque nonconductive layer and remove the model numbers from any chips that are there?

  6. Re:I doubt the key has changed by Waffle+Iron · · Score: 3, Interesting

    If it is just a key change, they would have been better off if they had used one-time PROM cells inside the chip to hold the key. Then, the key could be set as the last step before the box leaves the factory. No need to throw away chips.

  7. Buy More XBoxes! by tyler_larson · · Score: 2, Interesting
    ...If you don't like Microsoft.

    Remember, it costs Microsoft $300 to make an XBox, but they sell it for $200. That's why:

    1. The hardware is so good considering the price
    2. They're losing so much money on it
    3. They don't like the idea of people hacking the OS in any way
    4. Keeping the system totally proprietary is more important to them than even the survival of project
    They intend to make money on the games, not on the box itself. They're paying for 1/3 of the box, so they want to keep tight control over what you can do with it.

    For reference for those who question the numbers, I got them from a MS programmer: Their employee purchase plan allows them to buy software at a Huge Discount. Their is no discount on the XBox; though they jokingly say you can buy it at cost if you really want to.

    --
    "With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine. However, this is not necessarily a good idea...."
    RFC 1925
  8. Scrap a whole bunch of chips by dpilot · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Aahhhh, but Microsoft didn't scrap a whole bunch of chips, nVidia did. Isn't that a slick way of sticking someone else with the cost of your mistakes? I'd be curious to know the volume procurement agreement between the two, and why the heck nVidia got stuck with excess inventory when the product was working correctly as designed. I would expect that when a customer error like the encryption/key issue forced a re-rev, the customer (in this case, Microsoft) would have been stuck with the inventory as well as the NRE (non-recurring engineering) fees for the rev, itself. This is tempered with the issue of whether nVidia had built to-order or built ahead. The latter nVidia would be stuck with.

    --
    The living have better things to do than to continue hating the dead.
  9. Re:Just goes to show by fferreres · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Maybe it's also a marketing move. The can claim all the extra stock was not sold due to the need to replace the hardware.

    Ie: "it's not we couldn't sell it. We have to ditch the hardware because of piracy. All money lost due to piracy, DoD please help is, they are destroying the industry!"

    So they turn an error in they part into something that can help them strategically. This is just a posibility, but with MS you never know (with Windows, they never did a reversion like this. Remember the bug in XP cds, they just release it on schedule even though the shipped version already had security bugs. They just solved them after release)

    --
    unfinished: (adj.)