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MS Settles With FTC Over Passport Privacy Complaints
There will be a number of stories out shortly (here's an early one) noting that Microsoft has settled with the FTC over privacy complaints relating to Microsoft Passport. Short summary: Microsoft made lots of false representations about the security of Passport, and collected more information than it disclosed in its privacy policy, and now must be penalized in the usual Microsoft fashion - they must promise not to do it again. The FTC's settlement page has the complaint and settlement documents. We've covered this extensively - All Your Bits Are Belong to Us, EPIC's complaints about the integration of Windows XP and Passport, Microsoft Defends Passport, EPIC pushing state attorneys general to act against Passport, etc. In fact EPIC has an entire page devoted to Passport. The FTC settlement requires two main things: that Microsoft adopt basic security practices (what were they doing before?), and that Microsoft be audited by a third-party to assure compliance - perhaps it will be TrustE, since Passport's privacy policy remains approved by TrustE.
Trusted computing my ass... There can be no trust if trust has not been developed.
We had to destroy the sig to save the sig.
Does anyone think that MS' downfall will be by the hand of its customers, the people? We obviously can't trust the law to make any significant dent in MS' practices. But what will be the final straw on the people's backs to make them radically rethink their opinions on and compliance with Microsoft?
Cretin - a powerful and flexible CD reencoder
"and now must be penalized in the usual Microsoft fashion - they must promise not to do it again."
I hope Bill Gates wasn't crossing his finger behind his back...
Better make sure and force him into a pinky swear and swear his soul to the dark lord.... er, too late, nevermind.
So who is it that cares?
___ I don't respond to Anonymous Cowards, and I Never Mod them UP.
that makes me want to give up. I mean, over, and over, and over, and over again big companies (esp. Microsoft) do Bad Things(tm), get caught, and essentially get lightly scolded.
Now if I pulled shit like this I'd be up on fraud charges so fast that the whiplash would likely kill me. Assuming the lawyers hadn't eaten me alive first. But as it turns out that's only true because I'm not completely filthy stinking right.
*sigh*
I mean, I know it's nothing new, and I realize that I probably shouldn't be surprised, but c'mon.... it's just bloody depressing. How can things possibly get better if there's effectively no incentive for companies to behave? Clearly relying on a sense of honor or ethics just isn't working.
I'm going to go kick my cube wall for a while... at least then I'll feel like I'm accomplishing something.
Behold the Power of Cheese!
As we've seen lately, 3rd party auditing of *anything* only means that *2* companies are covering information up. Sorry, I still don't trust Passport.
And we're supposed to let this company run the internet with .NET? I don't think so.
You know, the cracks are beginning to show. Microsoft used to *never* make mistakes, but ever since good old Bill stepped down from the CEO position, they've been screwing up left and right.
Witness Hailstorm and Windows XP.
home page
I have the unfortunate luck of developing a Passport site. Here is an e-mail they sent out to all Passport Sites:
a ug02/08-08passport.asp and will be pointed to from several Microsoft sites.
From: passexec@microsoft.com [mailto:passexec@microsoft.com]
Sent: Thursday, August 08, 2002 10:20 AM
To: *****
Subject: Passport Resolves Issues with the US FTC
Very soon you will be hearing about an agreement between the United States Federal Trade Commission (FTC) and Microsoft regarding the Passport service. As a Passport participating site I wanted to contact you directly in order to provide you with information about this development.
This agreement is really about two things: making sure our statements about the service are clear and accurate, and ensuring we are meeting a very high bar with regard to online security.
We recognize that if we are going to be true to the high bar we set, we must take responsibility for the past and lead into the future. We realize some of our marketing statements in the past could have been clearer and in some cases less enthusiastic. We've already changed them and are working to complete an independent audit of our information security program which will give our customers added confidence that we are meeting this high bar.
I want to assure you that this is not an indication that the service itself is unsound. As you know, network security constantly evolves. What was reasonable in 1999 would not be reasonable by today's norms. While we believe we have always employed reasonable and appropriate security measures (in fact we know of no instance where a Passport user's information has ever been compromised), we understand the FTC's concerns and in hindsight wish we had held ourselves to an even higher bar.
We recognize the role of the government in this effort and we worked closely with the FTC to address these issues. This has been a far-reaching and thorough process and we have had an ongoing dialog with the FTC that has lasted several months and resulted in this agreement. We are committed as a company to being a leader in this field.
As a result of this experience, as odd as it seems to say this, I believe that the Passport service is better and more worthy or your trust than ever. You should know that:
We will meet and hope to exceed the high standards set by this agreement
We have planned for some time to conduct regular 3rd party audits of our service, and now we will provide the results of those audits to the FTC. These assessments will help give you and your customers the added confidence that we are living up to our commitments to run top quality services.
The allegations in the complaint are made in the past tense. We have made continuous improvements to the Passport service, and many of the FTC's concerns had already been dealt with as part of our normal service updates. I want to ensure you that we remain committed to improving and enhancing Passport.
I am sure that many of you are already thinking about what you will need to tell your customers. While I am sure that everyone's situation is unique I would encourage you to link to the information that we will be posting on Microsoft.com. This will include both a formal statement and a less formal interview with me that goes into more detail on the issues surrounding this agreement and its impact. We hope that these resources will assist you in speaking to your customers. When published, this information will be at http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/features/2002/
Thank you for taking the time to read this mail. I am very invested in continuing to earn your trust as both a business partner and a consumer of our service and I hope that I have been able to communicate to you how committed we are to making Passport the highlight of our Trustworthy Computing Initiative.
If you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact me via this email address.
Sincerely,
Brian Arbogast
Corporate Vice President
Microsoft Corporation
they can withstand 3.6 million violations at 11K/day before their cash reserves run out.
Boy, sure sounds like Microsoft got screwed on the penalty part of the agreement.
See, it was a joke... it's funny because kicking my cube wall doesn't accomplish anything... see? And yet it feels like that accomplishes more than any effort to reign in Microsoft... ha ha... wit and all.
;)
Well, I'll get it right one day
Behold the Power of Cheese!
Situations like this always remind me of a anecdote from australia.
If you want to cook a lizard, put it in a pot of cold water, and then slowly raise the temperature. The criter, being cold blooded, will not notice the temperature change as its body will follow the external temperature shifts.
Now if you would throw a lizard in a pot filled with boiling water, it sure would notice, and run the hell away..
The same goes for most bad relationships humans find them selves in. If you would end up in the situation you are in now instantly, you would scream bloody murder, and never accept it!
However, since change happens slowly and small step by small step, people always seem to think "well that little bit extra doesn't make the difference". And you end up in an incredible nightmare, without realising it !
I gues in a way this describes the situation that most people find them selves in with microsoft. They don't know what happened since it never happened in one go.. They don't realise just how disfunctional the relationship is.
Some day people might wake up, but historical evidence would dictate this will not happen untill we are in a LOT bigger mess then we would ever consider acceptable from the start.
I'm watching MSNBC and I don't seem to notice the news.....
Get your Unix fortune now!
... and the life savings of the entire middle class, with hardly a peep of protest from those affected, this sort of anti-consumer protection, or better said, government wink-wink-nudge-nudge "don't get caught doing that again" tactics for allowing this sort of atrocious behavior to slide relatively unaffected and unchanged, again and again, is unlikely itself to change in any measurable way.
At least, not until things become so intolerable that the masses overcome their conditioned apathy and subservience, and actually rise up in anger and demand real accountability and real reform. Unfortunately, by then I suspect things will have gone so far the non-violent reform will be difficult, if not impossible, and I sure don't want to be anywhere near the United States when that time comes.
Every great power in history was brought to its knees, and ultimately destroyed, by its own internal, unchecked, and uncorrected corruption. It is extraordinarilly unlikely that the United States will be any different, or somehow immune to this kind of historical tide, and with every such expose it becomes ever more clear that we in the United States have nearly reached that threshhold already.
I mean, hell, the upper crust just got done pilfering the life savings and retirement of the entire middle class, and yet no signficant reform or change has taken place, and the very people so affected can't be bothered to protest or be caught dead carrying a plackard in a public place demanding change, much less actually get involved in the political process and work for peaceful change. Unless this changes, and soon, this trend will not be corrected until it is far too late.
This despicable behavior with regards to Microsoft is appalling and extreme, but it is only a symptom of a much greater, more fundamental, and much more deeply entrenched malaise that affects our entire political culture, and likely spells the beginning of the end of American society as we know it.
It isn't going to be any foreign enemy, or "terrorists" who bring down our country, it is going to be our own inaction in the face of ever wider, ever more flagrant, and ever more destructive corruption. It saddens me greatly to have lived to see such a day.
The Future of Human Evolution: Autonomy
It's pathetic when the U.S. Government can take a hard line on terrorism in traditional forms, but is cowed by a multinational corporation that has been demonstrated to be involved in monopolistic forms of terrorism. The FTC is basically giving up because they're tired of trying to fight Microsoft. What sort of precedent does this set for the Standard Oils of the new millenium?
This government has bowed to corporate interests at every turn. I'd be happy to see a list of cases where individual freedom was held in higher esteem than corporate interests. This is yet another side effect of the US's desire to remain an economic superpower. It has changed from a Representative Democracy to a colossal beauracratic corporation. Perhaps we should call it The United States of America Inc.?
Remember folks, a government that tramples the rights of the citizen is a tyrannical government. There is no leeway for arguement in that.
I think Microsoft Passport is a great idea, just implemented badly. Think about it...I'm a member of a couple of webboards, some sites that use phpnuke, gallery.sourceforge.org, slashdot, kuro5hin, etc...On all of these sites I had to register individually for each one. Wouldn't it make more sense if everyone got together and created a centralized authentication database so that I only have to create one account and I can use it across multiple sites? That would make life easier and save me some time.
:(
I think this is what passport is trying to accomplish, but unforunately, AFAIK, it currently only works on Microsoft sites using Microsoft operating systems.
Does the name Pavlov ring a bell?
One password to rule them all,
....
in the darkness,
one password to bind them.
To the race of men Borgates gave them
passwords which would give them power
over e-mail log-ins and on-line shopping
sites.
But there was one password crafted by the
dark lord Borgates which controlled them
Get your Unix fortune now!
I once thought as you did. I thought that getting into the politics of the situation would fix everything. The problem is that you have to be filthy rich to get not only into politics, but to get anything done in politics. Change is brought about historically by bloody revolutions by the poor or peaceful voting by the rich. Since the rich are rolling in it right now, I don't see that changing. And since you would be murdered if you were to raise a single finger in the name of revolution. You might as well do what I do... let it happen. If you really don't want to live with it. Kill yourself. I'm not trying to flame, seriously. If you have any control in of any aspect of your existance, it's when you die(given you choose to take your own life). The reason those in power are, is because the tides of life put them there. Millions of people strive to be in positions of power, however only a fraction of them get there. There is no coincidence. Just give up. You'll live a much happier life.
I know Brian Arbogast (Microsoft's VP for Passport) pretty well, and believe his integrity to be unassailable. He has not been on the Passport team for very long. Could this be more simple and less pernicious than is the slashdot consensus? Could their press release be an honest mea culpa and promise to do better? What would everyone be saying under the same facts and circumstances if this was some medium-size startup with none of the negative history and less market power? Microsoft's a big company, and not every product has been horrible and every initiative negative for consumers. I have no love for corporate Microsoft (long story), and I agree skepticism is called for. But on the other hand, if posters look at each situation with a jaundiced bias, these postings feel more like a lynch gang than an informed discussion.
Throuhout this case, I've been most impressed ith the coalition that was formed between the plaintiff organizations. It's reasuring to see such coalitions formed in support of issues where until recently it seemed a losing battle was being valiently fought by a few small groups with no unifying structure arounmd them. Regardless of how meager this victory seems, it's important that the issue was addressed in that it galvanized these organizations and brought them together in a way we have rately seen thus far. I hope we see these organizations continueto work closely in the future.
--CTH
--Got Lists? | Top 95 Star Wars Line
The FTC is accepting public comment on the proposed order for 30 days, until September 9, 2002, after which the Commission will determine whether to make it final. Comments should be sent to: FTC, Office of the Secretary, 600 Pennsylvania Ave., N.W., Washington, D.C. 20580.
in fact we know of no instance where a Passport user's information has ever been compromised
I seem to recall more than a few hacks that would allow someone to read Hotmail accounts they shouldn't have. These hacks were generally cross-site scripting attacks, but these were after Passport was installed. Doesn't that qualify? Oh, maybe this particular MS marketing team didn't know about them, so it's alright to make the claim. That's not 'misleading'.
creation science book
Oh, that I had mod points. This is probably the most insightful post I've read in a long time (possibly ever) on Slashdot.
It's amazing to me how many people (especially those *in* the US) can't see this coming. How many people think that the US is, and always will be, indestructable. Sure, we can make great speeches and pull together for terrorism, but our government ``for the people'' is being run for the advancement of large corporations instead. I've always wondered what was going to befall this country, and government corruption seems like it will top the list.
Karma: Marginal (mostly due to the border around the website)
Speaking as a citizen of the rest of the world, who will nonetheless be affected by these pisspoor actions, would those of you whose voices count in America please make comment on this! The details have already been posted.
The alternative, of course, is to give up and go live in a computer-free backwater somewhere. Unfortunately, it appears the FTC chumps already did that.
J.
You're only jealous cos the little penguins are talking to me.
but don't change anything either. i can't see any indication that the ftc settlement is requiring any change in passport functionality/service. if it's objectionable enough to settle over, shouldn't there be some material change in how it works or the information they collect?
i hope i'm wrong and the details of the settlement address this concern, and also that m$ isn't choosing their own security auditors. i'm sure it will be discussed in detail here.
what if the hokey-pokey _is_ what it's all about?
Microsoft by itself will continue to do what it has always done best: look out for its own self interest. They are a commercial company with responsibilities mainly to the shareholders. It is the American Government/authorities (and to a lesser extent, the European Union) that have let us (the consumers, users, etc.) down time, and time again with all things related to Microsoft (and other companies which behave like Microsoft). If we don't pressure out governments to take active steps to protect us against monopolistic practices we should not be surprised that these practices continue. Of course, things are never as straight forward as they seem and I realise that governments are also trying to protect jobs and the economy: the computer industry (and Microsoft plays an extremely important part in that industry, if we like it or not) provides jobs for millions. However, the negative aspects of this kind of behaviour, in the long run, will hurt us more. When will they realise this.
Microsoft's privacy policy could be pristine, it wouldn't matter. They gather enough information under the auspices of Windows Update that they can just lie and lie and lie. The amount of money that they make by selling our souls to marketing firms more than makes up for any legal costs.
Alas, Babylon.
The United Nations (what the `Allies' called themselves) did not win World War Two -- the Corporations (Milo Minderbinder) did.
Bill Gates: "Security!"
General Public: "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."
"Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one " -Albert Einstein
You know, the one that explains why passports shitty privacy is actually good for us.
ich bin der musikant
mit taschenrechner in der hand
kraftwerk
the FTC won't let me be
or let me be me
so let me see...
Liberty.
I mean, hell, the upper crust just got done pilfering the life savings and retirement of the entire middle class, and yet no signficant reform or change has taken place
Read the news. The Federal Government just made doing what the CEOs of Enron et al did a federal offense, meaning real jail time.
And, just in case you're wondering, when someone commits a crime against you, you can usually sue them and win some fiscal recompensation. So the next time a CEO lies to their stockholders, and thus causes them to lose money, the middle-class stockholders can sue for a portion of their money back.
IANAL, but I do read the news.
It isn't going to be any foreign enemy, or "terrorists" who bring down our country, it is going to be our own inaction in the face of ever wider, ever more flagrant, and ever more destructive corruption. It saddens me greatly to have lived to see such a day.
Are we more corrupt, or less, than we were when we stared a scant 226 years ago?
Labor Unions, Civil Rights, CEO criminal culpability... we've come a long way from when we started, and we've made most of the biggest steps in the last centry or so.
You'll have to forgive us if we slack off a bit; after outlasting communism and dealing with a world that alternatly hates us and wants us to be their best friend, we as a counry have earned a little corruption and selfishness.
Heck, if nothing else, it'll give our next generation something to rebel against. (For an example of what happens when rebels don't have a cause, look up "Whiskey Rebellion.")
Since I use SquidGuard to keep my kids safe (and to block ads), I was wondering if there was interest in creating a list of M$ domains that could be blocked as well.
Reading their judgement, it seems to say that FTC is not charging that MS has actually broken any laws. However, if they breach the consent decree they will be liable for penalties.
Don't hold your breath though, the penalty is only $11,000 per incident.
Compared to some of the other settlements that FTC has made this is pretty light, but then it seems they took into account the actual damage that has occurred as a result of MS actions. ie very little.
Oh well.
What does it matter? Anyone using Mozilla can't register with Hotmail or Passport anyway. Go ahead, click on the register link.
.NET Passport no longer supports the Web browser version you are using. Please upgrade to a current Web browser, such as Microsoft Internet Explorer version 4.0 or later, or Netscape Navigator version 4.08 or later.
Microsoft®
"and that Microsoft be audited by a third-party to assure compliance - perhaps it will be TrustE, since Passport's privacy policy remains approved by TrustE."
I remember this big stink a few years ago about Microsoft having the majority stake when TrustE was founded.
Heck just look at the Privacy Statment at WebTV/MSNTV.
You say things that offend me and I can deal with it. Can you?
Its sometimes very difficult to fathom just how big the United States is, and how many different people live here. And its also hard to fathom that the general population of /. sits in a much higher caste than the average American. Its real easy for us to sit in an ivory tower and deride the rich, attack big companies, belittle the technology have-nots and laugh at the unintelligent. We all have 401(k) accounts, and we feel the sting of losing a couple of thousand dollars in the stock market because of some greedy CEO. And its real easy for us to extend that to the entire country, and assume that becuase the dot-com bubble burst, and the economy isn't doing as well as it used to, and your average HTML writer can't go out and get $100,000 that our country is doomed to failure.
The problem with that thinking is that there are lots more people out there without 401(k) accounts, and that didn't lose a single penny in the stock market, because they don't have any money to invest. They don't care about Microsoft, and they don't care about Enron, because neither of those companies have anything to do with them working two shifts and feeding their kids, or harvesting their crops. They're not calling for reform, because they haven't been wronged. What you call apathy is what they call ignoring things that are not important.
As for the downfall of American society - The downturn of an economy, and the corruption of CEOs and the back scratching of companies - these are not new concepts in US history. There is nothing new under the sun - just new generations, and new scams. Far greater evils have beset corporate America in the past 226 years, and if nothing else, the country has shown a tendancy for survival.
But when you've got your food on the table,and your surround sound stereo with the Simpsons Season 2 DVD playing at full blast, its nice to look out and have something to rally against. Because it is my belief that human beings are always at feeling their best when they are on the defensive - something hard wired into our instincts, I guess.
In this case, Microsoft was unethical and sneaky. And its good to cast a watchful eye toward the corporations lest they wrong us. But to rant and rave and call this the end of American society - well... if you were wronged then please do all you can to reform the system. But don't play the victim and blame all of society's ills on the lack of interest of the American public - its quite possible that they have more important things to worry about.
Do you have Linux and a DotPal? Click here now!
From: passexec@microsoft.com [mailto:passexec@microsoft.com]
Sent: Thursday, August 08, 2002 10:20 AM
To: *****
Subject: Passport Resolves Issues with the US FTC
Hey Coskmonger,
Guess what? We are at it again. We paid off some peeps at the FTC (Fscking Trade Coskers) and now they won't do more than bitch at us about our policy. We managed to fire the a$$hole who wrote that piece of shit and got a new a$$hole to write a better one. Be sure to read our changes, just click anywhere and you will be sure to see it.
So don't worry about your $hit, it's still in the locked room, *snicker*, and safe from hackers, *LOL*. Dish out some more money, we need to buy a couple of more politicians.
Oh and just to let you fsckers know, we can see when you beat the meat at the keyboard.
Peace out homie,
Brian Arbogast
Corporate Vice President
Microsoft Corporation
Read the news. The Federal Government just made doing what the CEOs of Enron et al did a federal offense, meaning real jail time.
1 101020805-332031,00.html
I do read the news, and the measures which have been taken are laughable and incomplete. Ralph Nader, the guy who finally got the automotive industry to belatedly incorporate basic safety designs into automobiles in the United States decades after they knew better, and chose not to for financial reasons, offers a detailed analysis of just how widely Congress dodged the entire issue, and how profoundly superficial and ineffective the law you cite really is.
In short, its a superficial measure designed to smooth the ruffled feathers of those few who dare, or rather bother, to speak aloud their outrage.
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,
You'll have to forgive us if we slack off a bit; after outlasting communism and dealing with a world that alternatly hates us and wants us to be their best friend, we as a counry have earned a little corruption and selfishness.
Or, to put your argument in a more individual light:
"You'll have to forgive me if I slack off a bit; after outlasting my competing coworkers and dealing with an office that alternately hates me and wants to be my best friend, I as a person have earned a little cancer and self-destructiveness."
Corruption isn't some self-indulgence you earn as a result of hard work, it is a cancerous, destructive force that tears a society apart and undermines basic, civil society and the social contract that holds it together, so unless you are arguing that America has earned the destruction it is bringing down upon itself, your argument falls to pieces.
As for the notion of 'needing something to fight against' as a justification for injustice or corruption, so that the next generation has something to occupy their time, I think the absurdity of your words stand upon their own. Indeed, your rhetoric is a perfect example of the kind of conditioning our culture has been subjected to for the last several decades which has resulted in the apathy and submissiveness of our populace which is allowing these sorts of destructive behavior to flourish, virtually unapposed.
The Future of Human Evolution: Autonomy
I mean, hell, the upper crust just got done pilfering the life savings and retirement of the entire middle class, and yet no signficant reform or change has taken place, and the very people so affected can't be bothered to protest or be caught dead carrying a plackard in a public place demanding change, much less actually get involved in the political process and work for peaceful change.
1) As you said, this JUST HAPPENED, and then you go on to lament that no reform or change has taken place. Unless you hadn't noticed, several other companies are being audited and investigated for similar actions. What do you want to happen? These things didn't just happen overnight, and they can't be fixed overnight. We are talking about things that happened 2, 3 years ago.
2) These events affected more than the middle class, they affected pretty much everyone because it shot our economy further to hell. Maybe those people aren't out protesting, or trying to get into politics (?) because they are out working to feed their families. I have heard of people who had to come out of retirement and go back to work because their retirement money was wiped out.
3) Unless you haven't noticed, we have this minor little thing called A WAR going on. And maybe another one waiting in the wings. That is probably taking up more than a few resources.
My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.
Hmm, the last I checked, Congress did not declare war on anyone.
The "War" on Terrorism is as misnamed as the "War" on drugs.
Read the news. The Federal Government just made doing what the CEOs of Enron et al did a federal offense, meaning real jail time.
Another chump fooled by "reform."
You can double, triple, quadruple, quintuple or googleplex the sentances for corporate fraud all you want, but it won't make a difference.
This fraud isn't perpetuating because there's some revolving door at the country club prison where corporate executives get caught, do a few months of time and get released only to do it again.
THEY SIMPLY DON'T GET CAUGHT. THEY DON'T GET PROSECUTED. THEY DON'T GET CONVICTED.
And the "reform" bill did NOTHING to change any of that.
The problem with that thinking is that there are lots more people out there without 401(k) accounts, and that didn't lose a single penny in the stock market, because they don't have any money to invest. They don't care about Microsoft, and they don't care about Enron, because neither of those companies have anything to do with them working two shifts and feeding their kids, or harvesting their crops. They're not calling for reform, because they haven't been wronged. What you call apathy is what they call ignoring things that are not important.
The number I heard (admittedly on a news broadcast, which isn't the best of sources given today's journalistic standards) was something like 60% of all Americans were invested in the stock market and suffered tremendous loss as a result of the corporate corruption (and the governmental corruption, or if you prefer giving the benefit of the doubt, negligence, which hardly gets a mention, but was necessary for the aforementioned corporate corruption to flourish as it did).
60%.
That is more than half of the entire population, and if you consider that those who are below the poverty line likely aren't invested or have 401(k)s, as you say, the percentage of the middle class who have seen their life savings pilfered is likely quite higher.
Pundits have thrown around numbers like 80% of the middle class being affected, though again, I wouldn't necessarilly trust those numbers given the source.
The point remains, though, that their is precious little outcry, and precious little being done to correct a systemic, fundamental problem that allows this sort of pilferage by the priveleged to take place. Hardly surprising given that our president, our vice president, and very like many members of congress have engaged in exactly this sort of activity, though on a smaller, less obvious scale.
Oh, by the way, I'm not playing victim. I'm one of the lucky ones who got out of the market when I read about Microsoft's option pyramiding scheme, did a little digging, and found out just how widespread the practice was. I'm one of the lucky few who enjoyed the ride up the bubble and missed out on its collapse, so I am not speaking from personal outrage, I am speaking from outrage at what is being done to my fellow man by a priveleged few, and the underlying corruption that is destroying my country in a very real, and very measurable, way.
Microsoft's despicable behavior and the government's effective dismissal of complaints against it, are just one symptom. As are the copyright cartel's efforts to circumvent and fence off the last remaining freedoms enshrined in the bill of rights regarding freedom of expression through extention of copyright law far beyond the bounds envisioned by the founding fathers. Are as any number of other ugly, destructive trends routinely discussed here on slashdot and elsewhere, all of which flourish because of the very corruption and ethical bankrupcy in our highest political offices, which in turn flourishes because of the conditioned apathy and subservience that has come to epitomize the American people, including most of those who do sit in those "ivory towers" you allude to.
The Future of Human Evolution: Autonomy
[B]and that Microsoft be audited by a third-party[/B]
Like who Arthur Andersen? They do about as good a job of approving things as TrustE. Does it really matter? The audits will be a crock no matter who does them.
1) As you said, this JUST HAPPENED, and then you go on to lament that no reform or change has taken place.
No, it is just the latest iteration of something that has been going on sinced the mid-nineteen eighties. Remember Felton? Remember the savings and loan debacle? Many people who had a life savings exceeding the minimal amount insured by the government lost the difference, and many others had their money in accounts with no such protection at all.
This iteration is not the first time in the last couple of decades the rich have pilfered the savings of the middle class, it is merely the first time anyone has spoken of it in those terms aloud, in the mainstream media, where it can actually be heard.
3) Unless you haven't noticed, we have this minor little thing called A WAR going on. And maybe another one waiting in the wings. That is probably taking up more than a few resources.
Who is it we're at war against this week?
Eurasia?
The Future of Human Evolution: Autonomy
...should be limited to $1000 per individual per year, per candidate. Donations of $2000 per individual per year will be the limit for registered political parties. Limit donations to registered votes who voted in their last local elections if you want (yes, this may be a bit extreme). Corporations or groups may not donate to political parties/candidates. Ever.
Now let's see how much that stops the corporate favoritism. Probably not entirely, but my guess is it would have a very pleasant effect... because the more overt forms of favoritism would be much more likely to land the respective parties in jail.
Just an idea.
Unfortunately, though, I agree with your statements, and sadly I see the US very slowly spiraling down towards its own destruction (perhaps not in the sense that it will completely disappear, but rather that it becomes something which its founding fathers had tried to protect against).
We will see a change when politicians actually make unpopular decisions. That is their job. And it can start with extensive changes to how they are elected. When money drives their campaigns, who do you think will have the greatest influence on their decisions?
an insider tip...buy back in NOW before you have to kick yourself
To see an explanation of why Passport is not needed, see the fourth paragraph of the section "What is your name and address?" means "Can we invade your privacy?" in the article that I wrote about Windows XP problems: Windows XP shows the Direction Microsoft is Going.
For older articles about Passport, see:
Stealing MS Passport's Wallet (Passport has been cracked in the past.)
MS and Its Terms of Embarrassment (Maybe this license was Microsoft's true intention.)
While I'm at it, I'm going to use some information that they used at their site in a slightly different order:
- First, the FTC said that [Microsoft] failed to implement and document procedures to prevent, detect, monitor or document unauthorized access.
-
Hence, [Microsoft knows] of no instance where a Passport user's information has ever been compromised, in hindsight we wish we had held ourselves to an even higher bar.
Now whack me on the back of the head with a two-by-four if I'm wrong, but given that they had been lax in monitoring for security violations, is it any shock that they don't know that we^w someone violated them seven ways from tuesday?Sometimes boldness is in fashion. Sometimes only the brave will be bold.
It goes back to the turn of the last century (around the year 1900) when the Supreme Court granted corporations most of the legal status of individuals.
So now there's a pro and con to this.
First off, somehow corporations haven't managed to get the right to vote, yet. Could you imagine all the mess if fully-owned subsidaries got the vote, and how many of those Disney could spawn when it came time to elect another Bono or Hollings?
Second, what about the death penalty? Certainly if a person sold a product he *knew* caused cancer, kept doing so, and lied to everyone including Congress that it didn't, that person would get the Chair. I've heard that there is a "dissolution of charter" that is the equivalent of a death penalty for a corporation, but has it ever been ordered as a response to wrongdoing? On the side, even if Arthur Anderson goes under, it won't have been a death penalty, it'll have been the sharks circling what the government exposed as weakened prey. (agreed the government did some of the weakening, too)
The living have better things to do than to continue hating the dead.
Anti-Microsoft statements on slashdot?! No way!
Has anyone else read it? I'm sorry, but the whole thing about changing your kids' passports too? It just reminds me of Hitler's Third Reich, and how he educated a whole generation with propoganda toward his own goals. No, i'm not stretching at all to make this view, it just really really looks that way.
Hitler started by subverting his government to allow him to do whatever he pleased, with no fear of retribution. They say history repeats itself, the details just change...
Who is it we're at war against this week?
Eurasia?
No, we're at war with Eastasia. We've always been at war with Eastasia.
~~~
Nice revisionist history there, dumbass.
FTC
Office of the Secretary
600 Pennsylvania Ave., N.W.
Washington, D.C. 20580
RE: Microsoft Passport Settlement
To Whom It May Concern:
I am writing to inform you of my disappointment with the recent Microsoft Passport Settlement.
This settlement charged Microsoft with false representation on several parts, but my concern deals with the fact that the settlement lacks a penalty. Instead, it includes:
(I) ... shall not misrepresent in any manner ... its information practices ...
a. They should have been following this from the beginning, not waiting until after they get caught.
b. They should not have to sign an agreement to obey the law.
c. This is basically saying "Don't do it again."
(II) ... establish and maintain a comprehensive information security program ...
a. They must have had such a program, or one very similar, already in place if there was originally any security at all.
(III) ... obtain ... an assessment and report from a ... third-party professional ...
a. It should be further stated that the third party must not have done work with Microsoft prior to, during, or in between these assessments other than this specific series of assessments, thereby avoiding any potential bias in the assessments.
b. Furthermore, it should be added that the third party must not receive any payment, gift, or benefit from Microsoft other than the exact dollar amount, which should be stated clearly in the agreement, for payment of the assessment, which cannot be raised or lowered without the FTC's approval. This measure is necessary to assure that there will be no form of bribery or additional compensation between Microsoft and the third party.
(IV) ... upon request make available to the Federal Trade Commision ...
a. I currently have no complaints on this section.
(V) ... deliver a copy of this order to all current and future ...
a. I currently have no complaints on this section.
(VI) ... notify the commission ... of any change in the corporation ...
a. I currently have no complaints on this section.
(VII) ... file ... a report ... setting forth ... the manner and form in which they have complied with this order.
a. I currently have no complaints on this section.
(VIII) This order will terminate 20 years ...
a. I currently have no complaints on this section.
The measures set forth in this agreement are essentially those that prohibit the reoccurrence of such a violation that inspired this very agreement. Nowhere in the agreement is there any penalty for violation of a federal law, such a fine or prison term. If a fine is pursued, then it should be a set amount, relative to the gross profits of the company, so that future violations by any company, regardless of the size or nature of the company, could be treated similarly and on similar terms and without bias or discrimination.
Thank you for taking the time to give serious consideration to the issues I have presented. I hope that justice will prevail.
Signed,
[hand signed here]
--
TodayTM BillyJoelTM GoogleTMd for StitchTMes due to WindowsTM while RollerbladeTMing with an AppleTM and a PopsicleTM
you miss the point. Enron was basically a dead company at that point anyway. Microsoft gets away with it because they're alive and kicking. That is the difference.
In SOVIET RUSSIA... erm...NSA AMERICA, the Internet logs onto YOU!
Can't register at passport.com with Opera 6.04 either (at least when it identifies itself as Opera rather than IE).
For most purposes, 355/113 is close enough.
Technically, you are correct - but that doesn't make what is happening in Afganistan NOT a war. If war was declared, what would change? Nothing. Does that mean that that little "conflict" we had in Korea wasn't a war?
My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.
P.S. kudos on your timing of the stock market.
It's times like these that I become a more firm believer in Heinlein's "The Crazy Years."
It's going to get much worse before it gets better. That, and a lot of lawyers are gonna die.
The cure for cancer is coming: Reovirus
However, with Passport, they're becoming more insidious. Instead of using the OS-compatibility to leverage their monopolies, they're using passport to force you to do things. Want to install your OS? Need passport. Office? Passport. Hotmail? Passport.
Soon, they will make it hard not to non-Hotmail email. You already have to use Office if you use windoze. They'll force you to use IE. They'll kill realplayer.
You see where this leads - you pretty much have two options.
1) Live in a world where everything you use is M$. M$ owns your desktop (win media player, office, IE). M$ owns your software (.NET). M$ owns your info (passport). M$ owns your data (Hailstorm). M$ owns your soul (.SOUL)
2) Switch to something else. Switch to linux. Or BSD. Or if you aren't a geek, switch to (I swear to God, I never thought I'd utter this sentence) the Mac, and pray for someone other than M$ to prop it up with non-M$-ware.
It's up to you. It's your soul. Don't sell it. At least not to Bill.
-Looking for a job as a materials chemist or multivariat
The worst part is that I don't think it is being done on purpose (at least not the aggregate effect). It's just that corporations survive only through making money, and those that are alive today are the ones making the most profit for their shareholders, CEO's, etc. In the future, they will try and get even more profits. It's not that they are not looking at the eventual demise or that they are not looking out for the masses, it's that they looking out for themselves.
It's the same thing with the polittians...it's not that all politians want to screw the people and help corporations, it's that only those that have enough money get elected. Who has the more money to give? Corporations...they have to give in order to receive x-fold.
Corporations are also taking over the airways and press. They have money and they can drive out the independents, indoctrinate the masses, and as a result get more money.
It's a self-propagating, vicious cycle, it gets deeper and deeper, but it does it gradually so that people do not take notice, do not feel cheated to the point of doing something about it.
You do see side-effects though...all those shootings, kidnappings, raping, etc. It's the aggregate build-up of stress (as in pressure) showing its head.
What are you going to do though? It's not easy fixing it, or it would not have gotten to this point. It's almost like an organism that evolves so that it is stronger. You could educate the people and make them vote for independents, greens, whatever, but that is a lot of work for those who do see the problems, and we are too lazy, too impatient to do anything about it.
I live in Seattle and have been a UNIX user for 18 years... I have worked for a lot of companies - big dot-coms that are still going, the Fortune 3, tiny start-ups, etc. My desktop has been UNIX since 1986 and *never* windows. I earn a six-figure salary as an engineer.
It has been disgusting to watch Microsoft grow into an evil empire.
But is it time to throw in the towel and join the Borg? I mean, if the government is just going to condone their money machine TIME AND AGAIN, is it time to sell out, drink the kool-aide and sign on?
Their ability to manipulate the system time and again *is* shrewd and impressive. Do I want to retire by 40, or be a debt-ridden poor Amercian shoved around by the whims of those with money?
When I was 19, an executive I know told me that his business philosophy was "Fuck'em". I resented his attitude. Over the years, I have come to see the wisdom of his words..
If you can't beat'em...
My teenaged daughter is PISSED. I've (mwahaha) disabled IE on the "good" computer (it now runs out of memory when you try to use IE; feck with ME, MS...) and installed Mozilla.
So now my daughter has to use the old 120mz machine to check her mail...
It is definitely out of control and should be dismantled.
Microsoft is part of the legacy of the 80's mentality which is "looking out for #1." This translates to "increasing the bottom line at any cost." This makes them reckless and dangerous. Damage has already been done, is being done and will continue to be done until they are halted.
They cannot be taken for their word as they have shown to be very deceptive already and continue to be so.
If testimony under oath was true, that if revealed, the vulnerabilities of MS Windows could represent a threat to national security, then MS should be abandoned by all national and state government systems as soon as possible. It's not "if" these vulnerabilities are found, it's "when" and the code to exploit such vulnerabilities can be developed anywhere on the planet.
I think the value of money pales in the face of national security and privacy concerns. The economy is already in trouble and we're not going to save ourselves by keeping predatory corporations afloat long enough to destroy themselves abruptly as other large companies have already done. An orderly shutdown is a much better approach.
Bill Gates and all those in control of Microsoft should resign.
Going aginst Joe MegaCorp is a bit harder. They can afford to put massive effort into stoping your prosecution. Note the work of Microsoft in the DOJ case. Also: the tobacco companies for the last 50 years.
Before MS, it was IBM. When the government moved against IBM, the litigation took the better part of a decade. The government had an entire floor of a building taken up by the legal team working against IBM. When IBM found out about this they decided to do a bit of psychological warfare. They demolished the building across the street from the government team, and raised a new building for the IBM legal team (with big 'IBM legal' logos facing the Government team's offices).
Between opposition like that, and the fact that your congresboss is getting worried about loosing thousands of dollars in bribes^w donations, it's easier to go after the little guy.
Sometimes boldness is in fashion. Sometimes only the brave will be bold.
Hmm, last time I checked, Congress did not declare war on Korea, North Vietnam, Grenada, Panama, nor Iraq.
P.S. kudos on your timing of the stock market.
... certainly not any financial wizardry or genius on my part. :-)
Well, I'd love to take credit, but I didn't see the entire crash coming. I just saw the bad accounting practices wrt stock options and Microsoft, as a result of a story posted here on slashdot a couple of years ago, did a little further digging and found out a bunch of tech companies were doing the same (Cisco, etc.), then did a little more digging, saw that a lot of non-tech companies were doing the same, and bolted in fear.
My money went to much less sexy bonds and real estate, so I missed the last few weeks of the climb and the big drop thereafter.
Largely dumb luck
The Future of Human Evolution: Autonomy
Almost all policy makers in the goverment, including ones that are not elected by the populous are wooed by corporate "donations".
For example, (From Richard Feymann's book) when Richard Feynmann was a reviewer for new textbooks for an entire state curriculum. He was determined to look them over and give an honest educated decision on which ones were good and which ones were bad.
The stuff he discovered during this infuriated even him:
He discovered that a book that was not even finished (only the covers were sent to the policy makers) had quite a good rating, even though there was _nothing_ to review.
Many of the companies gave him food, flowers, anything he wanted. He rejected it all (or so he claims in his book), but he acknowledged the fact that many of the other reviewers likely didn't object to any of it, and it probably influenced their decisions.
The textbook ratings were (in his words) absurd. People had obviously not even read the textbooks. When he asked other people why they rated this or that textbook that amount, most of them couldn't answer, or would answer stuff like, "Well, the pictures are nice."
He goes on and on... but the biggest thing he noted was the fact that these companies would go to any expense to have him choose their textbooks.
It continues up the entire structure unfortunately. Every level has its price, and these companies are realizing, have realized and will realize that if they scratch someones back just right, they will get anything they want. As long as it is profitable, companies will go to any lengths to achieve their goals.
And there isn't anything you or I can do about it, because even if they can't get to the elected few, they will be able to get to the rest, and that's all that matters. Money matters to people, and when it doesn't matter, then powerful people will stop being nice and start to threaten to keep their power.
A wolf trapped in a corner is more of a threat then a wolf loose in a field. As long as the master feeds it when it's hungry and lets it do as it wishes, the wolf will be a pet, can help with the hunting and will protect those in power who take care of it. Now lets say the wolf starts to eat the masters chickens, rabbits, and dogs because it feels the master isn't feeding it enough. What does the master do. The chickens and rabbits are too unintelligent to realize what is happening, or when they do they cannot do much to stop it. The dogs can try to fight back, but the wolf is far stronger then the dogs, so the dogs leave with their tail between their legs. The only one left to truly fight it is the master... But the master knows that if he corners the wolf, the wolf will bite back. So he has a decision to make. Let the wolf eat as they wish and hope that they won't eat everything, or be injured trying to stop the wolf...
Which decision do you think the master took?
Just a thought.
~ kjrose
>Many people who had a life savings exceeding the
>minimal amount insured by the government lost the
>difference.
s/minimal/maximum/
You seem to have a problem with this, but I think this is how it should be. There is an FDIC limit to the insured deposit, it's PROMINENTLY displayed in EVERY savings bank. The depositor knows this and expects it does not apply to him when the time comes to collect? Shame on him, because it is his own undoing!
The crimes committed by the people in charge which led to the bank failures were one thing, the people who lost money because they did not heed the VERY CLEAR warnings about limitations of liability, are quite another thing entirely.
Likewise, I highly doubt you have made a stock trade without acknowledging that you understand you MAY LOSE MONEY. It might not be a stern, breathless admonition that you are very likely to lose ALL of your money under certain very possible circumstances, but you are supposed to understand that.
The "savings of the middle class" is quite the red herring anyway.
First of all there is no middle class, because there is no class. We do not live in an aristocracy where there are class distinctions, period.
Second, the people in my small cross section of the very large world generally tend to have their material wealth on time finance. I know very few people who "own" their home, even fewer who "own" a vehicle, and many even finance the very clothes on their back. It *looks like* they own houses, cars, clothes, etc., because it is impossible to tell by looking just how much they own, and how much the bank owns. If our society were to transform such that those who use CREDIT to acquire property were easily differentiated from those who own their property themselves, we might see the beginnings of a class struggle -- because there are DAMNED FEW who own anything, and if more people could see the separation between themselves and those few, we might not all be getting along so well.
(Is this post really off-topic?)
The thing about things we don't know is we often don't know we don't know them.
I'm not convinced that splitting up Microsoft is a good solution. Look how well it worked for Ma Bell--we ended up with the Baby Bells, and then devolved from that into the current morass of ethically (and financially) bankrupt telecommunications companies.
No, I can handle Microsoft's monopoly status. But let's start regulating them like one.
!#@%*)anks for hanging up the phone, dear.
Well, at least they didn't pilfer MY savings. I got it all socked away in my McMansion.
Just wait until the bottom drops out of the housing market tho -
These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
Now that we've heard the fatalist view, let's focus on more realistic solutions, please.
That's right. No law means squat without enforcement.
And nobody is compelled to enforce in the current administration. They're too busy enforcing anti drug laws, etc. and spending billions to go after petty criminals or establishing a national organization to spy on our own citizens to take the time to look at a company's books and conclude that 2+2!=5.
Pitt is dirty, just as dirty as Cheney, Bush, and Ashcroft.
All of a sudden now, Osama bin Laden doesn't sound so crazy when he says that the US will be destroyed by it's own evil nature. Take that into account, and it makes the current administration seem like the corporate-wing of al Qaeda.
These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
<rant>
Hmm, thought I'd feel better after that..
ACHTUNG! Das computermachine ist nicht fuer gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist nicht fuer gewerken bei das dumpkopfen.
If you've only lived in the United States you have no idea what corruption is. I remember having a similar view of U.S. politics until I moved to Mexico. I've lived here for nearly 7 years. Believe me, most Americans--and possibly even you--have no idea what corruption is.
If a politician "listens" to determine what "the people" want, but only one side is "talking," he is going to tend to favor the ones doing the talking if, for no other reason, than he hasn't even heard the others. If the politician can also get some money to assist in his reelection campaign from the side that's talking and the rest of the people don't seem to care, why not take it?
Every citizen has the power and RESPONSIBILITY to decide the future of the United States. Don't blame businesses--or individuals--in trying to get laws passed that benefit them. Don't blame politicians from listening to those that are "talking" and receiving money from those that are giving if their constituents don't seem to care. BLAME THE CITIZENS THAT AREN'T PAYING ATTENTION.
Don't try to explain the sins of Microsoft to the masses. They will think you are eccentric, a geek, and worried about silly stuff when more important "real problems exist." Rather, the trick is getting people to watch their politicians in general. If people truly would CARE what their representative and senators are doing, believe me, everything else would fall in line.
Corruption is not the problem in the United States. Voter apathy is. If the U.S. is becoming a slave to corporations, we have noone to blame but ourselves.
Am I the only person who see a conflict of interest? How can Federal courts make impartial judgements, in the best interest of the common person, while being a client of Microsoft?
That is exactly the reason why I voted Green in the last election and not for Gore (Bush is even worse in this respect), who had some significant financial backing from several Microsoft executives.
Matter of fact, that's the sort of thing that Ralph Nader wants to put an end to.
Just another freak in the freak kingdom.
ACHTUNG! Das computermachine ist nicht fuer gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist nicht fuer gewerken bei das dumpkopfen.
Ever read 1984?
You'd be surprised how well that works. Not to the benefit of the common people, of course.
___
If you think big enough, you'll never have to do it.
I have only one thing to say to you: Why do you hate America so much?
... what would Slashdot do if Microsoft didn't exist. Follow the life and happenings of Sun? Oracle? McDonalds? SuperSexToys 2000, Inc.? _________________ I am the bungi!
First of all there is no middle class, because there is no class. We do not live in an aristocracy where there are class distinctions, period.
... go try to convince a poor man in east LA or the southside of Chicago that class doesn't exist, or for that matter just about anyone who hasn't completely divested themselves of intellect in some kind of Ayn Randian orgasm of Denial. Or for that matter, any number of wealthy individuals who will, most certainly and quite possibly rather condecendingly explain to you that there is class in America, and you are not a part of theirs.
You clearly do not live on the same planet as the rest of us, much less in the same country. Denying the existence of class doesn't make it magically go away simply because it doesn't fit your naive world view
As for blaming the victim for their losses, I think enough has been said to debunk that notion once and for all. The fact that someone had more than $20,000 in a bank account at a failed S&L, or owned stock options in liue of pay they could not divest themselves of for five years which became worthless after their CEO pilfered the company, does not in any way diminish the economic crimes committed against them, absolve the criminals (and their political buddies) in the least for their crimes, or in any way place any reasonable responsiblity or blame upon the victim.
The Future of Human Evolution: Autonomy
How many times does that release talk about the "higher bar"?
Maybe if they stop using such pointless metaphors as "meeting a higher bar" they could think themselves out of a paper bag and learn to anticipate the consequences of their crass, unthinking actions.
-- thinkyhead software and media
hahahahahahaha fsck m$
You are so right brother, this country is on a path to self destruction like the world has never seen before. I just cant believe that people care so little about their children and grand children in this country.
Is that your web page? If so, you left out the events that took place in Friday, Job, and a number of short stories. Good summary though. Hopefully the good Rev. S. has been born in our current timeline, so we don't all die Real Soon Now. :)
Neh
... and there is no doubt, that one day he will be
where the eye of his telescope has already been
I mean, hell, the upper crust just got done pilfering the life savings and retirement of the entire middle class, and yet no signficant reform or change has taken place
Funny, I am middle class and I have lost none of my life savings and retirement. I don't think I'm an exception.
There are a few bad eggs in every group. Some idiots in the middle class decided to ignore all rules of investing and got their fingers burnt. But they don't constitute the "entire middle class." Some crooks in the upper class decided to defraud their shareholders and got caught. But those few crooks do not constitute the entire upper crust.
You've got a chip on your shoulder so large that you can't see the real danger to our society. That danger is the politicians, who will use any excuse to grab more power for themselves. Your call for reform is the excuse they will use to further enslave the people.
A Government Is a Body of People, Usually Notably Ungoverned
If you have read the above article before, please remember to choose Reload in your browser. The article has been recently updated.
These agencies are set up to protect the citizens aren't they? Root up nasty behaviour and then apply the law if warranted. It seems though that these agencies are not doing this - instead they are effectively treating federal criminal cases as civil cases (ie. out of court settlements). How does this serve the citizen?
BTW not only does this apply to M$, but also to crims doing "plea bargaining" etc. WTF? Basically this means that the crim and the Feds negotiate what the law is going to be for a particular case. Joe Citizen gets it in the tail!
I thought all we had to do was sing "God Bless America" at the top of every hour and stick some "Power of Pride" stickers on our cars and everything would turn out all right, just like they in the movies. Where did I go wrong?!
Slashdot: Failed Car Analogies. Amateur Lawyering. Anecdote Battles.
Well, it's going to end sometime, somehow. Might as well be geared up for it!
Slashdot: Failed Car Analogies. Amateur Lawyering. Anecdote Battles.
"You'll have to forgive me if I slack off a bit; after outlasting my competing coworkers and dealing with an office that alternately hates me and wants to be my best friend, I as a person have earned a little cancer and self-destructiveness."
"Corruption" is nothing more than men that stop doing what they should do and instead do only what they want to do. In other words, it happens only when people get tired of fighting and take a break.
Most of the parent post was the same kind of tired, angry rant that the USA has been hearing since the Revolutionary war. We were an important market for Europe then, and we're the most powerful economy in the world now. The arugment rings hollow.
As for the notion of 'needing something to fight against' as a justification for injustice or corruption
Read it again. It's hardly a justification for it--all I stated was a simple, possible benefit to leaving some corruption in the world.
As for Ralph Nader... He was the only non-joke third-party candidate in the last election, and every vote he got was from the "democratic" half of the election. If he had endorsed Gore, the world would probably be a very different place and he might be in a position to change that legislation, instead of just complaining about it.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
I must have been hallucinating when I saw Ken Lay take the fifth then. I must have been so out of it, I even missed the part where they threw him in jail.
FTC Representative: You guys have been extremely deceptive. You lied about your privacy policy and collected information you weren't supposed to collect. No more Mr. Nice FTC Guy: it's time to be punished. So -- please don't ever do it again.
Microsoft: Okay, chief.
FTC Representative: Okay, now that that's squared away, can I get you anything? Doughnuts? Coffee?
What are you doing after work?
Who is it we're at war against this week?
Judging from the Patriot Act, I'd say we were at War with the Constitution.
"Our products just aren't engineered for security,"
-Brian Valentine,VP in charge of MS Windows Development
I just wonder how many people shut their mouths knowing that the guy below him was going to have to work another 20 years longer than he'd planned. And how could they?
I wish one of these days there would actually be a hard assed judge who would just make the breakup ruling, and then stick to it.
Then have a higher court that actually had a pair of balls between the members that made the ruling stick.
How many times does it take for the government to realize that M$ just isn't going to change their ways?
What? We can't do that? Oh ok...we won't do it again. <snicker>
Every time I hear something like this I think back to one of Sam Kinison's skits... (substitute the word Microsoft for love and you'll see what I mean).
Common....love wouldn't lie to you 13 times in a row fuckhead.
Oh Oh Ohhhhh! Love lied to me again!!!!
I dunno...maybe it's just me.
Not that I'm entirely disagreeing with you, but note that there was even less enforcement in the previous administration, when most of these crimes actually occurred. At least now some of the crooks are going to jail.
How to solve most of our problems: 1.Lots of nuclear plants. 2.Cure aging.
I've come to a very obvious conclusion..
The Government is a Whore, and Microsoft is the "john."
And even tho the Government is the whore, magically the citizens are the ones getting screwed.
But, since everyone seems to give into Microsoft so quickly, it would appear the Government is representing us accordingly.
I can't register using any web browser here, even IE. Passport.com is blocked at my firewall, along with other sleazy places like doubleclick.
Realistic? I suppose that is like hiding behind the veil of anonymity? Your troll is responded to, however. Pat yourself on your childish back while you surf for more breasts and fend off "enlarge your penis" advertisments. Ingrate
(Offtopic I know, but....)
I read a lot of comments in slashdot moaning about "Big Business(tm) gets away with murder", "The pollies are useless corrupt vagabonds", "Something must be done", blah blah blah.
Sometimes there are more active posts like "Send a fax to this congressman", "Use this e-mail template to get your view to CEO X"
Why not go one step further? Why doesnt the America slashdot crowd get of their collective arses and form their own political party? I have only a vague idea on how the American political system works, but if MIKE MOORE can get a FICUS elected (nearly) with under 100 votes, surely a group of intelligent individuals can do the same? If nothing else, It would be a very interesting social experiment to see how the average soap box standing shashdot idealist responds to the pressures and temptations of public office.
Of course, I should be doing this myself my own country (Aussie-land) before my favourite senator bans the Internet entirely because it is responsible for BAD THINGS(tm). Ill just be quiet now and join the rest of the mice wondering why one of the others doesnt put the bell on the sleeping cat.
I looked and looked for an email address on the passport website to mention this to them and the only one I found was the one for privacy policy support. So I thought what the heck... They told me to fill out the form at http://register.passport.com/contactus.srf, but of course it doesn't work with Mozilla either. :)
There is something of a trickle-down effect. The big losers from the big stock market crash of late '20s were the poor during the depression of the '30s. They didn't have the money to lose in the crash but still suffered.
Methinks the ranting and raving is a "Self-Defeating Prophecy". He's right, but only if he and his ilk keep quiet. Good points. Both, together not separately.
I think we've reached the point where corporate greed and lack of responsibility is maybe not such a good thing.
It's a self-propagating, vicious cycle, it gets deeper and deeper, but it does it gradually so that people do not take notice, do not feel cheated to the point of doing something about it. ;)
Until something breaks and the powers that be decide that this is "something up with which we will not put". The things that need to be fixed are in the effective collusion between market analysts, investment bankers, and corporate auditors. (Ok "collusions among" for the grammar nazis;) I caught a bit of CSPAN "grilling" a brokerage executive about the "chinese wall" between market analysts and investment banking. Kinda got the impression (from the questions, no information content in the answers) that the "chinese wall" has more holes than Microsoft Windows.
Well, I'm not from the US, but here's the way I see the problem.
The people like microsoft. It's the consumer's dream come true. It's all bubbly, and friendly, and has that *coool* little paperclip, and this neat-o MSN messanger...
The general public is not concerned about Digital *Restrictions* Management. Although it would completely eliminate independant artists' ablity to distribute their art, nobody cares about indies, and would rather watch the 24 hour Britney Spears cam, for a nominal fee of $.35 per minute.
The problem is that the corporations, are providing the Luse^H^H^H^H consumer with everything they want. And *sure* the slashdot people are upset, but we probably don't even make up 1% of the drooling consumer body that allows this to continue.
What? Me? Worry?
> I thought all we had to do was sing "God Bless America" at the top of
> every hour and stick some "Power of Pride" stickers on our cars and
> everything would turn out all right, just like they in the movies.
Speaking of which, anyone know where I can get some "Power of Envy" bumper stickers? Or any other of the 7 deadly sins?
But don't play the victim and blame all of society's ills on the lack of interest of the American public - its quite possible that they have more important things to worry about.
I am pretty sure that Microsoft is counting on this. Think about it for a second.
They know that people don't matter. While they get a lot of money from regular sales, the real people who propagate their monopoly is companies. I don't remember the last time I launced Word at home, but I have to use it all the time at work. They know that the average person doesn't care about what they do, and know that they couldn't do anything if they did. Companies have so much more to worry about in this economy, and will sink further and further into the MS-tarpit without realizing it. A company is not going to risk going to court with Microsoft, even if they had the money and the inclination.
So what you are saying is true, and Microsoft knows it and will exploit that to the fullest.
My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.
Stop! Don't kill yourself! Move your corporeal self to a better place!
If you can't handle a drastic change, may I recommend Canada. Among other benefits, our banking sector is much better regulated than the US's. If the US completely falls apart they'll probably take Canada with them, but by then you will have had time to setup a life in a non-capitalist country.
That's good. "The Power of pride|envy|greed|wrath|lust|gluttony|sloth"
Slashdot: Failed Car Analogies. Amateur Lawyering. Anecdote Battles.
Non-capitalist? You mean socialist? That won't do... it's riddled with just as much human greed as any other institution. I'd rather put up with capitolism however... then I can at least make myself think I have _some_ freedom. Hell, I'd rather be a wage slave who can jump from one job to another than be stuck in a world where "Your father was a pipefitter, so you will too!" Or even worse! "Yes, your aptitude tests show that you are meant to be a Public Accountant...STAMP.. CPA it is!"
The solution, as it has always been is to work together in a mutually beneficial consortium that will police itself. In these events, the companies that support such filth as what MS produces (not just products but their tactics) they can be wholy seen as the problem. If any other companies choose to go agains them, then they will not be alone and be crushed.
Then we get to the REAL problem of this situation. People REFUSE to take responsibility for their purchases and decisions. It is trully pathetic when someone makes a conscious decision that limits said choice in the future, but yet they only blame everyone else.
see, I figure that microsoft is a lot like my pet rat...I give him anything he wants, and in turn, he gets unruly and takes chunks out of my artery-laden areas... now, I love my rat, but...doesn't that seem familiar? -binky.