Slashdot Mirror
UK Prepares Own Version of the DMCA
philkerr writes "I've just been informed by the UK Patent Office, below, that the EUCD (European Union Copyright Directive, the equivalent EU legislation to the DMCA) consultation paper has been released. It's important that we give feedback to the UK government that this legislation will have a chilling effect on the software industry." NTK has a few choice words on the subject as well. We've done several articles on the EUCD before, and Alan Cox has been campaigning against it, but it appears that the fix is in: Europe is going to get DMCA-like laws implemented in each nation by the end of 2002.
This development is, IMHO, a very interesting follow-up to this posting about an article on the Register.
A hack is just an idiom waiting for wider use.
Could a European more familiar with EU laws comment on this?
http://saveie6.com/
Well if it does become implemented, it'll take a while longer for the Police and Courts to catch on, especially in light of how they enforce the current RIP bill (Jack Straw's little ugly baby).
If I remember rightly, in Computer Weekly stories were coming through of how the Police would come into a company and virtually request 'the internet', them not knowing they were enforcing... giving a whole new meaning to "'ello 'ello 'ello, wot's goin on 'ere then?"
Time will tell I suppose.
Are you local? There's nothing for you here!
If the EU is so eager to follow the laws of the US despite all the obvious flaws, then the US should give them some starter tips as a gesture of goodwill. Someone send them a fat guy to sue the fast food companies.
I moderate "-1, Fool"
Now that the chance of a nuclear exchange between India and Pakistan producing a nuclear winter is much reduced, I'm depending on the chilling effect from multiple DMCA's on every continent to counteract the greenhouse effect. That and running my central AC full blast with the windows open.
Remember that in 1984, the main character believed that a true revolution against an evil government could not be started by a small gang of intellectuals, but that it would have to be the 'dumb masses' (known as the 'proles') who could summon the power to do it?
To be honest, I can't see the point in fighting this. It's a bad way to go, sure, but a fistful of academics and computer scientists isn't going to sway the supposed 'ideals' of modern government. Keeping track of citizens is seen to be a good thing, and the only way we can stop governments bringing in draconian laws like these is to get millions of *common people* to rebel against it.
This isn't going to happen. I've had discussions with people, and asked them what they thought about losing their privacy, and they generally believe that if you're doing nothing wrong, then who cares?
The proles are useless, and they are not going to help in this fight. Stupid laws like the DMCA, IR35, RIP, terrorist Acts, will continue to pass through while governments preach that they'll improve your security.
Sure, they might improve security, but for every bit of assured security you gain, you lose a bit of assured freedom too.
mogorific carpentry experiments
Definitely a tempting thought...
However, why should *we* be the ones to move out? Huh? Both the US and the UK are (supposed to be) democratic nations. Isn't that the point of establishing a democracy in the first place? So that we don't have to leave, but instead can change the nation and government to better suit the people?
Maybe I'm too idealistic, but it seems to me that too many have given up on democracy really working (including myself often). The real test is that countries can change. That has happened in the past, if it can no longer happen, I think the fault lies more with the citizens than with the elected officials.
Just my $0.02
Who said Freedom was Fair?
It will be interesting to see them stick to their high and mightly morals and actually move.
;-) but it's currently overstaffed.
:-(
Your sarcasm is well put, and you're right.
Every time there's a 'crisis' or an 'injustice' of some sort in the UK, you end up with numerous celebrities and public figures bleating on about how they'll 'leave the country' if such-and-such happens.. AND THEY NEVER DO!
I remember that thousands of contractors were going to leave the country when IR35 came into force, and they didn't. If they did, there'd still be a contracting industry in the UK
Perhaps people WOULD change countries if it was an easy thing to do. I want to move to the USA, but you can bet sure as hell that they won't let me! I'm stuck in the UK till I get a degree, to the front of the visa queue, or come into $500k I can invest over there
mogorific carpentry experiments
Very interesting point. I'm not sure if that justifies not attempting to oppose the legislation though (but I doubt that's your intended point).
Actually, instead of 1984, I was thinking of "Atlas Shrugged" where the one washington scientist points out the Rearden that the laws which had been passed were not intended to be followed, but passed with the intention that people would not be able to continue unless they broke them, thus putting everyone in the power of those who pass and control the laws.
Who said Freedom was Fair?
For all you cynics out there that think you can't do anything to stop this:
1) The UK Patent Office undertook a consultation exercise into extending European patent law to cover software and business methods in the same way as in the US. They only had 285 responses - 241 individuals and 44 organisations. See their conclusions from the exercise. In particular:
"To extend patentability so that these developers have to divert time and effort into making sure they are not infringing patents, and seeking and enforcing them, would impose a major burden. The necessary case for believing that a significant extension of patentability would increase innovation in this field simply has not been made. In fact, as many respondents suggested, it could have the opposite effect."
They will have an influence on the European patent office. Other influences may prove stronger - the battle is not yet over.
2) A couple of months ago, the government in the UK was planning on making everyone's phone records (including mobile phone location data) and internet data (URLs visited and emails sent and received (header details, I think - not sure) available to many government departments, local councils and even private utility companies. There was a large outcry here. People were encouraged to fax and write to their MPs. What happened? The legislation was withdrawn, and the minister responsible, David Blunkett (a SENIOR government minister) even apologised about it.
Yes, these ARE different issues. But when a change in the law like this is being proposed, if you go about it in the correct manner you can have a (small) influence on what happens. If enough people get involved, you can have a major influence.
I'll take the bait...
When a graduate student is afraid to present a paper, I shiver. The fact that MicroSoft, for whatever reason, chose not to actively oppose the paper is good, but the fact that the college was worried to that extent was a perfect example of chilling effect.
There was also Bruce Perens having to withdraw a demonstration because HP was afraid of the repercussions. That's free speech which was curtailed by the chilling effect of the DMCA.
There are more, but that should be enough to show that a chilling effect exists.
DMCA is alas just the implementation in local laws of the WIPO recommandations. So it's just a matter of time until all the countries that have adhered to WTO (i.e nearly all) implement similar law. Have a look at this intersting FAQ http://anti-dmca.org/faq.html
You assume that because we're both meant to be democracies, that the general public knows what is good and right, and that they will vote accordingly.
I don't think that the general public are really going to take much notice about this - perhaps it seems elitist, it probably is - but I doubt they'd realise the implications or care in the slightest.
You make a very important point, but I personally have not lost faith in pure democracy. Rather, I have lost faith in:
1) Our paticular democratic implementations. ( Which are NOT pure democracy, but rather a democratic republic. )
2) My countrymen. ( Most of whom still think that digital watches are a pretty neat idea. )
Also, it is my humble opinion that the larger a democratic country is, the more disgruntled it's population will be on the whole. This is because decisions can be made with only a fifty-one percent majority ( in most cases ). In smaller countries, this only leaves the potential for 49 people, or 49,000 people, etc, to not get thier way. In larger democracies, like ours, you have the potential for millions to be 'in the minority'. I don't believe that the opinions and beliefs of 101 million should supercede those of the other 99. If we were split into smaller countries, or more independant states ( 5 points to the American who can tell me where we've heard THAT before ) then each side will get what they want, without trampling over what millions of others want.
Of course, this will never happen, because we Americans ( I can't speak for Europe ) have become soft, fat, and lazy. As long as there's plenty of Hostess Snack Cakes in the cupboard, and something mind-numbingly violent is on the boob tube ( to keep us from thinking about how mind-numbingly useless our paticular cog in the machine is ), then we shant lift a finger.
Warning: This is not a flame, this is an opinion, which just so happens to be mine. This also isn't an entry for the national spelling bee. So unless your response is insightful or informative, kindly fornicate yourself with a sharp iron stick. ( This warning was meant for the public at large and is not directed at the parent of this post. )
Go Robo
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote.
X-DMCA-Complaints-To: dmca@comcast.net
Chilling...X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers
X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly
Timeo idiotikOS et dona ferentes
Your point is valid as far as it goes: the UK & Europe have plenty of companies, lawyers & politicans who are as bad as those in the US. However the UK was legally compelled to implement this law as a result of European union directive 2001/29/EC. In turn the Directive had to be implemented because of the WIPO Copyright Treaty. Who was responsible for the WIPO Copyright Treaty?
Yes you guessed - it was created as a result of ultra heavy lobbying and smoozing by the US IP rights holders groups: *IAA etc. So he is right, ultimately it is US corporate interests aided by for-rent US politicians that are responsible.
-he who laughs last, is a bit slow.
journal
That would be true in an ideal world. But before you really believe that, consider this:
So it's not the fault of the citizens that things are the way they are. They really don't have much of a choice: the large corporations have arranged things in order to ensure that.
It looks to me like there is no solution to this problem short of violent revolution. There is simply no way to get "there" (a government that listens and responds to the actual wants and needs of the people and not those of the corporations) from "here", because the system itself has feedback mechanisms (see above) in place that make such a direction impossible.
This is why a corporate-run police state is inevitable, at least in the U.S. It's why the average person in the U.S. today has (as far as I know) longer hours and less real vacation (a "vacation" in which you take your cellphone and laptop "just in case" the office calls is not a real vacation!) than anywhere else in the first world (people who work harder have less time to think about politics, so it's obviously in the best interests of the corporations both from the standpoint of overall profits and from a political standpoint to give the working people as little free time as possible).
Sorry for the rant, but we really are falling into a bottomless pit and it sure looks like there isn't a damned thing any of us can do to stop it.
Use 'slashdot stuff' in the subject line in any email you send me if you want to get past the spam filter.
I hear this all the time - that somehow all the protests over RIP were a miserable failure.
As a matter of fact, the final form of the act that passed was substantially improved on the original proposal. The *original* bill was going to demand key escrow: that's to say, you'd have to hand over you PGP keys to a third party before you could use them.
Widespread protest by businesses and individuals stopped that.
As a fix, the government introduced the idea that if you didn't hand over your password, it would be presumed that you were hiding it. That's to say, reversing the burden of proof. People protested about this to, and the final form of the Act goes a long way to mitigating this issue.
There's a lot that's wrong with the RIP Act - but to describe the fight against it as a series of defeats is just as bad. You can make a difference. If you protested against RIP, perhaps you already have.
I am active in the X-Box Linux effort, and based in the UK, it makes me very sad to read the summaries of this law here.
King Canute-style the people who make money from restricting availability of digital content have gotten more bad law made. As there is no technical fix for the erosion of their ability to overcharge, they instead try to bludgeon their customers into lying still.
The resources of the state, including the unique powers to punish and deprive citizens of money and liberty will soon be being applied to individuals in the name of enriching the copyright holders. This is so inappropriate its ludicrous.
I admired Janis Ian's second article reminding the legislators that they are voted in. But look at the incestuousness between these 'copyright holders' and the media that politicians need to influence the masses that vote for them! How far would a party get if it stood on a platform of de-emphasising these laws (I say that because no one country can strike them from the books, this being an EC law).
However, there is one bright light untouched by this. Linux, GPL software in general, stands as the opposition to this IP world. At the cost of 'dropping out' from using programs and media that is not free, you can still get by. So my prediction is that this historic force of giving hugely excessive power to copyright holders across the world will polarize people all the more and give the whole free knowledge philosophy a huge boost, turning many of us into mini-Stallmans.
The thing that really scares me about the EUCD is the total lack of media coverage that this las has recevided here in Sweden. I don't know about the rest of Europe but here I've never seen it mentioned in any newspaper or on television. All information I have found about it has come from reading Slashdot and other independant online sources.
Somewhere in the heavens... they are waiting.