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Franklin's Glass Armonica

CoffeePlease writes "At the time of his death in 1790, when more than 5,000 of his glass armonicas had been built, Ben Franklin had collected no money from his glass armonica. He refused to patent any of his inventions, saying: 'As we enjoy great Advantages from the Inventions of others we should be glad of an Opportunity to serve others by any Invention of ours, and this we should do freely and generously.' Read more here and here. A historical/sci-fi novel by Louise Marley has come out on the subject also. It would be interesting to find out if any other early inventors shared Franklin's generous views on patents." There's even a FAQ.

67 of 189 comments (clear)

  1. Something they didn't mention.... by Your_Mom · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Franklin suffered severe nerve damage in his hands playing this. The vibrations cause the neveres to goes nuts in his hand, and he basically told everyoe to stop playing these things. It wasn't until late 1790s when someone developed a piano like interface that these started bein used again...

    Man, gotta love those 8th grade reports I did 8 years ago.

    --
    Objects in the blog are closer then they ap
    1. Re:Something they didn't mention.... by Dr.+Ion · · Score: 4, Interesting
      Wow, that sure disagrees with the article:

      No explanation or proof was ever really given to any of these claims. Franklin himself ignored all of the controversy and continued to play the instrument until the end of his life with none of the symptoms mentioned.
    2. Re:Something they didn't mention.... by guttentag · · Score: 5, Funny
      Over the years, some disturbing events began to be associated with the glass armonica. Some armonica players became ill and had to stop playing the instrument. They complained of muscle spasms, nervousness, cramps, and dizziness. A few listeners were also subject to ill effects; after an incident in Germany where a child died during a performance, the armonica was actually banned in a few towns. Some people thought that the high-pitched, ethereal tones invoked the spirits of the dead, had magical powers, or drove listeners mad.
      And all this time we've been superstitiously attributing the ill effects of using a computer to things like "carpal tunnel syndrome" and "monitor radiation poisoning," but we haven't had much success in preventing these things from happening. Apparently it turns out we've just been invoking the spirits of the dead. Someone should file a bug for this.
      Bug #3382983749: Invokes spirits of the dead , causing permanent nervous system damage.
    3. Re:Something they didn't mention.... by skotte · · Score: 2

      also, people who played the instrument often got lead poisoning. the initial belief was the lead in the glass had leaked into the blood stream. this is of course complete rubbish. it turns out, ol' ben had his instruments painted. each note a different colour of the rainbow. so you could play without knowing how to read music. the problem however involved the paint: it was lead based. so the paint itself wore off onto the hands of those who played, and thus into the blood stream.

      tragic, really.

    4. Re:Something they didn't mention.... by skotte · · Score: 2

      indeed. quite agree. nevertheless, this was believed to be the case. reportedly, people would go apeshit when they heard the armonica. probably a lot of sensationalism and rubbish. but the reports did indeed exist.

      now, to be certain, lead poisoning did lead to a lot of musician's untimely demise. the notes on the instrument were painted with lead paint.

      and it's possible -- just slightly possible -- the instruments were capable of creating tones which evoked seizures in some people. bear in mind, humans werent numb to bright lights or sonicly impressive tones. and, more importantly, since each instrument was made by hand, there were sure to be anomolies, unusualities, and peculiarities. so it's not impossible to imaginge a scenario in which, mid performance, some audience member suddenly went into a bit of a seizure.

      all that is required then is a little sensationalist media -- which has been around an awful long time -- and voila! it's a demonic tool!

    5. Re:Something they didn't mention.... by Cplus · · Score: 2

      You should hear an Armonica. It can be disturbing to say the least, ethereal is a very apt word. I've actually had the opportunity to play one and .....there's nothing quite like it. I'm solidly surprised that no one in pop music has touched on it.
      Many attribute the basic ideas of the polyphonic synthesizer to the Armonica. Listen to it.

      --
      "Share your knowledge. It's a way to achieve immortality." -- Dalai Lama
  2. Of course... by Hugh+Kir · · Score: 2, Insightful

    It's worth pointing out that Franklin was also publisher and owner of the Pennsylvania Gazette (which I believe he eventually sold), as well as the publisher of Poor Richard Almanack, so he did have other sources of income to rely on. That's not to say it wasn't generous of him to refuse to patent his inventions, but I can understand why a person whose income depended on their inventions would want to patent things.

    1. Re:Of course... by Anonvmous+Coward · · Score: 2

      "That's not to say it wasn't generous of him to refuse to patent his inventions, but I can understand why a person whose income depended on their inventions would want to patent things."

      Back then, though, he didn't run the risk of having his invention totally bastardized by a single entity. I'm not sure he'd take the same stance today. If anything, he'd patent his inventions just to keep corps from getting too large.

      Of course, this is all speculation. Iventions were a very different animal then. It was hard to invent something that could be distributed around the country.

    2. Re:Of course... by extrasolar · · Score: 2

      "...but I can understand why a person whose income depended on their inventions would want to patent things."

      Yes, but should we, as a society, let him?

    3. Re:Of course... by extrasolar · · Score: 2

      Linux will solve all your problems.

    4. Re:Of course... by DavidRavenMoon · · Score: 3, Funny
      Back then, though, he didn't run the risk of having his invention totally bastardized by a single entity.

      That's because Bill Gates wasn't born yet.

      --
      -- if it was so, it might be; and if it were so, it would be; but as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic - Lewis Carrol
    5. Re:Of course... by thales · · Score: 2
      "...but I can understand why a person whose income depended on their inventions would want to patent things."

      Yes, but should we, as a society, let him?


      Do you want to see Coparate R&D budgets slashed or eliminated?
      Do you realize that these R&D programs have produced most of the inventions of the past century?

      --
      Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est
    6. Re:Of course... by extrasolar · · Score: 2

      Sounds like an abuse of the patent system to me. If I understand correctly, the patent system was made so that inventors didn't have to keep their inventions secret. It just doesn't seem ethical to not allow other corporations use a technology just because someone else discovered it first.

    7. Re:Of course... by thales · · Score: 2
      "It just doesn't seem ethical to not allow other corporations use a technology just because someone else discovered it first."


      Who is going to discover it?
      Who is going to sink millions into R&D without any hope of recovering the costs?


      If If was the CEO of a corparation, the day they banned patents is the day my entire R&D staff would be fired. Why would I sink money into developing new inventions when I can simply copy the invention some fool paid to develop? Of course the other CEOs will do the same thing, so I won't have to worry about them developing new ideas. I won't have to worry about the hoards of Sciencists dumped on the streets becoming private inventors because they will lack the million dollar budgets, and be too busy earning a living to devote thier full time to research.

      --
      Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est
  3. I am so glad.. by NanoGator · · Score: 5, Funny

    ... that Franklin didn't patent his techniques involving lightning. Without a doubt, this would have greatly distressed Doctor Emmet Brown.

    --
    "Derp de derp."
    1. Re:I am so glad.. by NanoGator · · Score: 2

      "He patented the "Flush Capacitor".

      Wouldn't that big tank that holds the water for the toilet be the 'flush capacitor'?

      --
      "Derp de derp."
  4. More practical inventions by wormbin · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Franklin also invented a more efficient fireplace, which he also built and sold. He was offered a patent on this by the Governor of Pennsylvania but refused.

    That as we enjoy great advantages from the inventions of others, we should be glad of an opportunity to serve others by any invention of ours, and this we should do freely and generously.
    -BF

    He thought the idea of intellectual property to be a bit kooky.

    If you're curious, read more about Franklin in the excellent biography The First American

    1. Re:More practical inventions by blakestah · · Score: 3, Insightful

      His more full quote

      This pamphlet had a good effect. Gov'r. Thomas was so pleas'd with the construction of this stove, as described in it, that he offered to give me a patent for the sole vending of them for a term of years; but I declin'd it from a principle which has ever weighed with me on such occasions, viz., That, as we enjoy great advantages from the inventions of others, we should be glad of an opportunity to serve others by any invention of ours; and this we should do freely and generously.

    2. Re:More practical inventions by pipetoawk · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Not really surprising, given that Franklin was a printer, newspaper publisher, almanac writer, and colonial postmaster. All of these jobs have the common thread of promoting the spread of knowledge and ideas. To Franklin, the free dissemination of new and useful ideas was the key to progress.

      And yes, the other jobs supported him well enough that he didn't need to make money from his inventions.

      I read the book, and it was enough for me to take Franklin on as one of my personal heroes.

    3. Re:More practical inventions by sconeu · · Score: 2
      That as we enjoy great advantages from the inventions of others, we should be glad of an opportunity to serve others by any invention of ours, and this we should do freely and generously.
      -BF

      He thought the idea of intellectual property to be a bit kooky.


      Man, it's a good thing he's not alive! The RIAA and MPAA would have him arrested as an Evil Content Pirate(tm)!!!!!
      --
      General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
    4. Re:More practical inventions by mizhi · · Score: 2

      Thanks for the recommendation. Franklin has always been one of my heroes (along with Einstein, Jefferson, and my dad). I disremember exactly how many things he did during his lifetime, but this man was amazing, even into his old age he was still doing stuff, not just inventions, but diplomatic things, public services, etc. He also was still womanizing like a frat boy well into his old age. (although the womanizing part is not why I respect him so much) :-)

      --
      Humorless sig goes here.
    5. Re:More practical inventions by skotte · · Score: 2

      it was enough for me to take Franklin on as one of my personal heroes.

      cool. look into jefferson as well. Author of our Declaration of Independence, he also did a vast number of great things fFor information and thought. he built clocks and buildings, and even created a new version of the Bible.

      my dad is a bit of a racist (which annoys me no end), but he refers to martin luther king day as fFranklin/Jefferson day.

      (hmm, hope i'm not offtopic here. my point is: Jefferson held many of the same beliefs as fFranklin)

    6. Re:More practical inventions by gargle · · Score: 2

      That's very nice for someone with the talent of Franklin; lesser mortals have to make their living by peddling their inventions.

  5. They Caused Serious Problems by MBCook · · Score: 2

    Of course, if you know your history you know that these things stopped being used because it was thoutght that the sound made the players go insane. This was actually somewhat true because many players did go insane. It was only later that it was figured out that it was the lead in the things that caused this. I don't know if anyone has ever heard one of these, but they sould really cool and kinda haunting.

    --
    Comment forecast: Bits of genius surrounded by a sea of mediocrity.
  6. huh? by Theodore+Logan · · Score: 2

    The glass armonica was one of the most celebrated instruments of the 18th century. Franklin began to take his beloved armonica with him when he traveled and played popular Scottish tunes or original compositions for his audiences. Later, composers such as Beethoven, Mozart, and Donizetti would write music for the armonica. Because of its almost immediate popularity, the glass armonica seemed destined for permanence. But by the 1820s, it was nearly a forgotten instrument.

    I pride myself in being rather well versed in classical music, but have never once heard of this instrument. If gods like Mozart or Beethoven composed for this instrument, where are these compisitions now? Have they, blasphemously, been transcribed for other instruments, or are the compositions today as forgotten as the glass armonicas themselves?

    Weird story, and it gets worse:

    Over the years, some disturbing events began to be associated with the glass armonica. Some armonica players became ill and had to stop playing the instrument. They complained of muscle spasms, nervousness, cramps, and dizziness. A few listeners were also subject to ill effects; after an incident in Germany where a child died during a performance, the armonica was actually banned in a few towns.

    Could it that I've never heard one of these instruments played because performers insist on falling ill or dying while trying to record them? Maybe this was also why Ben would not patent his instrument - anyone who played it without knowing the secret method of avoiding the wrath of the evil spirits of the glass got into trouble soon enough anyway? (The secret method of course being available after a small submission fee.)

    Ah, theories.

    --

    "If you think education is expensive, try ignorance" - Derek Bok

    1. Re:huh? by Tenebrious1 · · Score: 2

      I pride myself in being rather well versed in classical music, but have never once heard of this instrument. If gods like Mozart or Beethoven composed for this instrument, where are these compisitions now? Have they, blasphemously, been transcribed for other instruments, or are the compositions today as forgotten as the glass armonicas themselves?

      My guess is that with the limited range of notes and the difficulty in playing any chords, music would have been pretty much anything writting for a wind instrument like a flute or bagpipe. Sure you could play some complicated music, but you usually don't go to hear a single bagpipe, you go to listen to all the pipes and drums. You hear the flute, but only as solos within a larger composition.

      So I'd guess that if Mozart wrote anything, it would have been an armonica solo within a larger piece. Today it's probably been replaced by a flute or oboe.

      --
      -- If god wanted me to have a sig, he'd have given me a sense of humor.
    2. Re:huh? by skotte · · Score: 2

      well, i dunno why you've never heard of it. no accounting there. but, it didnt actually get so much use based on a fFew things.

      fFirstly, it couldnt be tuned. it was (is) simply several glass or crystal bowls, set in such a way as to be played with little preperation. this made them very handy fFor parlour amusements, and gatherings of fFriends and so on. but it could neither be tuned, nor altered. a "C" is always a "C". so your musical selection is limited. you could probably buy one with several octaves with sharps and fFlats, but that gets difficult and expensive.

      which brings us to the nest reason you dont know much about them. the cost, and fFragility. all glass with some wood fFraming to hold it together, making it very difficult to transport.

      so, you've got something with a limited range, and it is fFragile, and really expensive. which means you arent likely to see them touring the countryside in some orchestra. which basically rends them out of the public eye.

      and all that about illness and spirits and such is of course hogwash.

    3. Re:huh? by Z4rd0Z · · Score: 2

      As I posted earlier, I saw one of these being played this June, and one can indeed play chords on them. My experience of it was that it sounded rather like an eerie little orchestra all on its own.

      --
      You had me at "dicks fuck assholes".
    4. Re:huh? by Cplus · · Score: 2

      Hear it here.

      --
      "Share your knowledge. It's a way to achieve immortality." -- Dalai Lama
  7. Re:Idealistic by Tenebrious1 · · Score: 2

    I just can't possibly understand the logic behind it.

    Which simply means you are a capitalist and that you are not benevolent!

    Of course, refusing to patent something does not mean that you can't be capitalistic about it. You can still make money off it by manufacturing it and selling it. But without a patent, you don't have exclusive rights, so unless yours is much better than the "socialists" who are making them and giving them away for free, then you are not going to make money.

    --
    -- If god wanted me to have a sig, he'd have given me a sense of humor.
  8. It can't be what it looks like... by RomSteady · · Score: 2, Interesting
    Benjamin Franklin, inventor of the musical warp core.

    Actually, I found it fascinating that people can and will find any means to musically express themselves. Enya has transformed her vocal cords into an instrument, Blue Man Group has turned PVC pipe into tunes, and Franklin used a combination of science and artistry to transform glass into music.

    What next? "Tubular Waterfalls?"

    --
    RomSteady - I came, I saw, I tested. GamerTag: RomSteady / http://www.romsteady.net
    1. Re:It can't be what it looks like... by kin_korn_karn · · Score: 2

      the voice has always been an instrument, this is what classical voice theory relies upon. Enya didn't invent this, she just kitsched it up and created the "celtic new age" genre.

    2. Re:It can't be what it looks like... by Cplus · · Score: 2

      I once spent an entire afternoon playing with pieces of thrust up ice on the lakeshore by my parents home. Each piece of ice carried a different tone and by subtly changing their orientation and the level of the snow around them I was able to tune a major scale and play with it. An afternoon well spent.

      --
      "Share your knowledge. It's a way to achieve immortality." -- Dalai Lama
  9. Re:Idealistic by renehollan · · Score: 4, Insightful
    You know, as libertarian, I see your viewpoint.

    But, contrary to belief, not everything I do is for profit, or if so, very indirectly.

    You see, I place value of the general welfare of my fellow person. I contribute to charties, and donate things I no longer need that are in good repair, so that they can either be given to the poor, or sold, and the proceeds used to help them. I've gone so far as to donate running cars.

    Yes, either I benefit, or my descendents will benefit, in some small way, from these acts, so a Randian might consider them quite rational. But, and this is the important thing, the general welfare of "clan Hollan" was not in my mind when I undertook these acts.

    While it is all fine and good to be able to participate in a free market, we are not without compassion for those less fortunate than ourselves, whatever the reason. I, for example, had the good fortune to study a field (Computer Science) that has blossemed to fill an as unquenched thirst for skill in the market place. However, to argue that this was a calculated optimal decision on my part, as opposed to a calculated risk would be arrogance. In fact, I chose it becase I liked it and was good at it.

    So, I can certainly empathize with those who's fortunes have not been as good as mine, though I do not feel a particular obligation to help the less fortunate.

    Nevertheless, parting with that for which one feels no desire to exploit, so that the lives of others can be, in some small way, enriched, is no great misery, and in the minds of the recipients, might translate into the most wonderful gift of all.

    --
    You could've hired me.
  10. Using the "virtual armonica" on the website ... by SimplyCosmic · · Score: 2

    With the virtual armonica on the website, you can pretty much reproduce every cheap sci-fi "ethereal space" them ever created.

    I expect the MPAA and RIAA would be pissed about that fact. ;)

    1. Re:Using the "virtual armonica" on the website ... by SimplyCosmic · · Score: 2

      Try the first link on this page.

  11. Spinning Glass Spheres by shmert · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Funny to see this on slashdot, I'm about 1/3 the way through Carl Van Doren's biography on Franklin. Right away I see the correlations between the armonica and his experiments with electricity, namely rubbing spinning glass (Leyden) jars with cloth. This is really a fabulous book, btw. It's amazing how active his mind was, and how un-pretentious he was, even after achieving fame. The fact that he didn't patent his inventions is, really stunning, especially given his thrift. This was not a man who cared nothing for wealth. He was just incredible well-scrupled, and early on devised a very involved person code which he lived by very well (although as I said I'm only 1/3 through the book). If you want to read about a truly great thinker, check out more on Benny.

    --
    You drank my drink, you drunk!
  12. Glass Armonica mp3 by Jeremi · · Score: 3, Interesting

    An mp3 of the Adagio in C for Glass Armonica can be found here. It is apparently being played by Klingons... :^)

    --


    I don't care if it's 90,000 hectares. That lake was not my doing.
  13. Modern glass armonica music by Perianwyr+Stormcrow · · Score: 2

    The armonica is still being made and played today- many modern artists make music with this instrument. Here's a few sound samples.

    --

    What we call folk wisdom is often no more than a kind of expedient stupidity.-Edward Abbey

  14. Mozart composed for glass harmonica by phr2 · · Score: 4, Informative
    including the Adagio and Rondo for Glass Harmonica, Flute, Oboe, Viola & Cello in C minor, K. 617, and the Adagio for Glass Harmonica/Keyboard in C major, K. 356. Both these pieces are on this disc. I think there might be one or two others as well.

    I don't remember any Beethoven compositions for glass harmonica but am not at all sure there weren't any. Glass Harmonica was very popular for a while. More recently composers including possibly Stravinsky and Hindemith (from vague memory, don't hold me to that) have composed for it as well.

  15. Babbage also did not patent by BlueLightning · · Score: 2, Informative

    Charles Babbage never patented any of his inventions either. There's a short essay on it here.

  16. Communism? No, this is the 'meaning of life' by wackybrit · · Score: 2

    The meaning of life is not to rack up as many points on some financial scorechart as possible. After all, why do you spend your life making money anyway? Just so you can spend it to be happy and secure, and to provide for your dependants. Yet I'm not approving Communism. Individual achievements must be recognized, how can we do this? Patents and fame. Unfortunately, fame often goes to the wrong people, so patents are necessary.

    Instead of being happy little campers like Franklin who do things to help others, we rush after money and desperately try to hoard our own little pile of it. Why?

    Because no matter what you've got, someone else will always try to take a piece of it. Whether it's the government with their taxes, or even 'competitors' who want to steal all of your business or your inventions.. someone wants to steal from you.

    That's why we have patents. Patents go a long way to stopping others from stealing what took you so long to create.

    Sure, patents aren't all that great, but for a capitalist nation to work without them, we'd need to become 100% Libertarian and idealistic, and that isn't going to happen. As soon as it does, some rotten apple will steal to increase his slice of the pie, and so it goes again.

    So, that's how we life. We don't all just get our acre of land, stay self sufficient, and enjoy our days out in the sun.. Instead we slave away in offices, coming up with ideas, and trying to make a million dollars, so that we get a bigger share of the pie. It's not a great system, but what viable alternatives are there? Communism? Yeah, right.

    1. Re:Communism? No, this is the 'meaning of life' by Accelerated+Joe · · Score: 3, Insightful
      wackybrit said:
      someone wants to steal from you.
      Good luck stealing from Benjamin Franklin. You can't steal an idea if the originator is giving it away for free. The fact that you cannot even see it from Franklin's point of view is related to the short-sightedness of your point. Sure, there are bad apples, but what happens when the idea generator happens to be one of the best apples ever?

      There are many intelligent people out there who are not motivated purely by greed. You might want to look "Richard Stallman" up on the internet. Do you think the greed of others has kept his inventions from having a profound effect on the world? Sure, he may not be rich, but I think he is getting just about everything he wants from life.

      --
      They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security
  17. Water in china by teetam · · Score: 2

    There is an instrument used in Indian music called the "Jaltarang" which uses many similar porcelein cups filled with different levels of lukewarm water. The musical effect is really good.

    --
    All your favorite sites in one place!
  18. It may not be patented, but it has copyright. by KPU · · Score: 2, Interesting

    From the bottom of "Read more here": "Note: The objects pictured above are part of The Franklin Institute's protected collection of objects. The images are © The Franklin Institute. All rights are reserved." Franklin didn't patent his invention, but his heirs don't appear to share that sentiment.

  19. Ah very beautiful... by RadioheadKid · · Score: 2

    I remember, between the nights of partying, strolling around one of the squares in New Orleans, and there's this street performer who played wine glasses he had setup on a table. I just stood there and enjoyed it for a while, such a pure sound. I'm sure others who have been there can give more details as I believe the guy is still there and has been for years.

    --
    "Karma can only be portioned out by the cosmos." -Homer Simpson
  20. Here y'are ... by jc42 · · Score: 2

    Here in Waltham, Massachusetts, there's a glass harmonica manufacturer. There are also a number of people in the Boston area who play it.

    If you ask google about "glass harmonica player" you'll get info on a lot of them.

    You might also note that the Finkenbeiner page claims that their instruments contain no lead. However, this may not be the explanation for the apparent insanity of a lot of the early players. The few people I've know who play glass harmonica have all replied to this idea with the claim that you have to be crazy to take up the instrument in the first place.

    It does have a rather marvelous "new age" sound. But probably the reason it never really caught on is that it has no attack at all, and can't really be played rapidly. It's ideal for slow, dreamy music; it's not so good for fast, bouncy music.

    The modern instruments are better in this regard than Franklin's originals. You can get them with an electric motor with speed control, dampers, etc. This expands their sound quite a bit. But they are still a stubtle, ethereal instrument, with very little attack.

    --
    Those who do study history are doomed to stand helplessly by while everyone else repeats it.
  21. Ben Franklin Father of the GPL by DeadBugs · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "As we enjoy great Advantages from the Inventions of others we should be glad of an Opportunity to serve others by any Invention of ours, and this we should do freely and generously."

    They should make this the first line of The General Public License.

    --
    http://www.kubuntu.org/
  22. Re:Not the Only One by Arandir · · Score: 3, Funny

    Money was so scarce that George Washington
    had to pose separately for each dollar bill


    That was nothing! The reason he wore wooden teeth was because his real ones got knocked out when they stamped his head to make all the quarters!

    --
    A Government Is a Body of People, Usually Notably Ungoverned
  23. Early Inventors by istartedi · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Inventors contemporary to Franklin may have had similar feelings about patents for a variety of reasons. First, the patent process that they knew of in England may have been unfair and/or corrupt (sound familiar?). From what I've heard, English IP laws of that era bore little resemblance to the IP law envisioned by the founders. They were more about aristocratic control. Many argue that our IP laws have been corrupted in a similar fashion; just substitute "aristocrats" with "corporations".

    Secondly, it was easier to dismiss the value of IP in Franklin's time because mass production and interchangeable parts were not generally available. Post-revolution, Eli Whitney and others developed the mass production techniques. As the industrial revolution progressed, the quantity and quality of labor required to make physical copies of a device shrank dramaticly in proportion to the labor required to invent a device.

    Thus, it seemed a folly to Franklin to patent his stove when the idea took 1 man-week to sketch, and perhaps 2 man-weeks *per unit* to produce.

    On the other hand, Edison's lightbulb and the ribbon machines used to manufacture them took years to develop. Once this was done, each lightbulb took only a fraction of a second to produce. Therefore, it now makes perfect sense that the knowledge of how to make the bulbs is far more valuable than even a truckload of the bulbs themselves.

    --
    For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
  24. You're assuming the inventor always gets the fame by wackybrit · · Score: 2

    Good luck stealing from Benjamin Franklin. You can't steal an idea if the originator is giving it away for free.

    Untrue. Just because someone doesn't have a patent doesn't mean they have put the idea in the public domain.

    Someone else could have taken Ben's invention and really had a hit with it, and then THEY would have been remembered as the inventor.. even though they weren't!

    Ben, and Richard Stallman, have relied on the fame of being the originators of what they have produced. They might not have got rich from their inventions (Stallman still being alive, and with a chance, of course) but they still got the credit.

    If everyone gave their ideas away for free these days, they'd be stolen and exploited, and the inventors' names would quickly be forgotten.

  25. Bruce Sterling story by Kafir · · Score: 2, Informative

    There's a brief but well-informed reference to the glass harmonica in a short SF story by Bruce Sterling, We See Things Differently". Strange little story, about rock'n'roll and Islam, or something.
    Here's the passage:

    Boston played a glass harmonica: an instrument invented by the early American genius Benjamin Franklin. The harmonica was made of carefully tuned glass disks, rotating on a spindle, and played by streaking a wet fingertip across each moving edge.

    It was the sound of pure crystal, seemingly sourceless, of tooth-aching purity.

    The famous Western musician, Wolfgang Mozart, had composed for the Franklin harmonica in the days of its novelty. But legend said that its players went mad, their nerves shredded by its clarity of sound. It was a legend Boston was careful to exploit. He played the machine sparingly, with the air of a magician, of a Solomon unbottling demons. I was glad of his spare use, for its sound was so beautiful that it stung the brain.

  26. You cannot possibly prove your point by Accelerated+Joe · · Score: 2
    You can't prove your point, and I can't disprove your point because there are no well-known inventors who aren't famous. I think it is implicit in your argument that if they've ever received credit for their invention, then they have profited from it in that way. Otherwise, what does Benjamin Franklin's fame have to do with it, since he's been dead for hundreds of years, and cannot possibly actively use it. Of course, he also had much fame during his life, so why would he possibly need to invent an instrument like this one, just for the fame of it? Or if you believe it was a particularly famous invention, then why the next invention of his, or the next?

    I think Benjamin Franklin just had an inventive mind, and the excitement was in the creation, rather than the profit, or even the credit, although these are both possibly bonuses. And of course, now we're just talking about my opinions, which almost has to be the case, barring any psychological studies that I would have to look up and cite just to make any conclusive points.

    --
    They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security
    1. Re:You cannot possibly prove your point by wackybrit · · Score: 2

      I recall a TV ad that went on about getting a patent for things, and it said something like:

      Who invented the telephone?

      A) Alexander Graham Bell, or
      B) Elisha Gray

      And then it crossed it all out, and put C) Both!

      Yet, hardly anyone has heard of Elisha Gray, yet Elisha actually invented the telephone before Bell. The problem? He submitted his patent two hours after Bell. And even though Bell's patent was actually flawed and incorrect, Bell still got the title of 'who invented the telephone'.

      More information here.

      Of course, it depends on how much you value fame. But, really, what is life about? Surely it'd be nice to have a legacy.

      I agree with your opinion on Franklin, however. I just chose him as an example.

    2. Re:You cannot possibly prove your point by Accelerated+Joe · · Score: 2
      I agree with your opinion on Franklin, however. I just chose him as an example.
      Great. Then, I think we're in total agreement. Actually, I have a selfish desire in myself that someday I should invent something that makes life better for the human race somehow (vague, but still a desire). I believe that if I did this, and came back in a million years, and everybody claimed someone else made my invention, I would certainly be dismayed to some degree. It would probably still feel good just to know I made a difference, though I probably would have preferred it if people didn't remember who the inventor was, rather than attributing it to someone else.

      What can I say? I'm just simply not as good as the unnamed inventor (that I theorize to exist) who didn't care to be credited at all. (C'mon, I just imagine that there's got to be someone somewhere like that, for some kind of invention, no matter how small!)

      --
      They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security
  27. The Slave Economic System is to blame by Louis+Savain · · Score: 3, Troll

    I've written this before but it's worth repeating.

    Intellectual property laws exist only because we have a slavery system. Our livelihood depends on working for others so we can pay our taxes. The reason that we have to work for others is that 99% of people have been deprived of an inheritance in the wealth of the land. Income property is owned by a few and the state. The others are slaves. Artists, programmers and inventors depend on their work to make a living. Can we blame them? We all depend on our labor because we are all slaves. So now we are swimming in a ocean of laws and rules that take away our remaining liberties, one by one.

    Let's face it, if you cannot put a fence around it or put chains on it, it does not belong to you. Makes no difference whether it is ideas, writings, software, music or what have you. Once you've released it, like the air, it belongs to nobody and everybody.

    Intellectual property owners (such as Microsoft, Adobe, the music industry, and yes, even that Segway inventor Karmen) will fight freedom with everything they've got. They have to because it's the system. Right now they have two formidable weapons: IP laws and powerful police states to enforce them. But those who yearn to be free also have a formidable weapon, the internet.

    The internet and other communication technologies (e.g., file sharing systems) are the first major kinks in the armor of a sick system. As technology progresses, the system will eventually collapse. What will happen to a slave-based economy when robots and advanced artificial intelligences replace everybody, i. e., when human labor, knowledge and expertise become worthless?

    And don't think for a minute this won't happen in your lifetime. The internet is the latest giant leap in human communication. Before that came mass telecommunication technologies and before that was the movable press. If history is any indication, we can expect a giant leap in technological progress and scientific knowledge. In fact, it is happening before our very eyes.

    We should all demand a system where everybody is guaranteed income property, a piece of the pie, an estate if you will. There is plenty for everybody.

    Communism confiscates all property and enslaves everybody. Capitalism gives property to a few and enslaves the rest. It's sad. The land should not be divided for a price. It should be an inheritance for us and our children and their children. It's the only way to guarantee freedom and a truly free market in a world where human labor is about to go the way of the dinosaurs.

    If you don't own income property. You are a slave. If you have to work for someone else for a living, you are a slave. And don't think that just because you can quit and go to work for someone else, that this makes you free. It does not matter where you go or who you work for. Wherever you go, you are a slave. They know the fear of hunger will keep you working.

    Demand liberty! Nothing less.

  28. Michael doesn't tell the whole story by EchoMirage · · Score: 2

    Ben Franklin, truly enough, didn't see the merit in patents, but this doesn't mean that we need to follow his logic. He was one of the founding fathers of America, but his beliefs are not canonical for the foundation of American Constitutional republic government.

    Michael and other Libertarians can claim that because Franklin said it, it must somehow be true of the way this government "ought to work," but unfortunately there are no provisions in The Constitution or general law that make patents illegal. Therefore, people who claim this are necessarily taking a revisionist read of history (and a poor one at that).

    One can ignore the facts all one wants, but patents are as real to America as apple pie and baseball.

  29. I saw one of these by Z4rd0Z · · Score: 2

    There was a performance venue at the Fremont Fair in Seattle this year with a man that played one of these. It was beautifully played, with a haunting sound that made me think of bygone eras. At the end, the guy played a sort of tongue in cheek version of "Stairway to Heaven". I had no idea that this was invented by Benjamin Franklin until now.

    --
    You had me at "dicks fuck assholes".
  30. Where are the Mp3's by Treeluvinhippy · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I never even heard of an armonica before now. Can somebody please post a link to some MP3's, Vorbis or even some WMA files so I can hear for myself.

    Even the names of Mozarts works written with the armonica in mind would be helpful.

    --
    >
  31. BSD by absurd_spork · · Score: 4, Interesting
    "As we enjoy great Advantages from the Inventions of others we should be glad of an Opportunity to serve others by any Invention of ours, and this we should do freely and generously."

    They should make this the first line of The General Public License.

    Is it just me, or does the quote sound more like a BSD license model? There is clearly no mention of requiring others to give derivative work away for free.

    Of course, ethical considerations suggest that they do that, but these do not need to be codified in the license. In that way, Franklin's appears to be more in the BSD direction.

  32. Franklin and John Galt by deblau · · Score: 2
    I would be honored to meet a man like Ben Franklin today. Franklin understood the value of the simple application of the human mind to solving practical problems, and I envy him that he was given the opportunity to exercise himself. Every day, I see the work of those who produce subverted by those that have nothing to offer, and I fear the day when I will feel unable to produce anything of value in their society, because it is, for the time being, my society as well. I take heart, however, knowing that they need me more than I need them, because when I work I create value, but they only seek to possess it. For those who sustain the world, my currency buys more than theirs. My hopes and prayers go out to everyone reading this who feels the same way as I do. May we find each other, and forge a better world.

    Read Atlas Shrugged, and vote Libertarian. You'll be glad you did.

    --
    This post expresses my opinion, not that of my employer. And yes, IAAL.
  33. Working armonica played daily in Philadelphia by MobileDude · · Score: 3, Interesting

    --Franklin suffered severe nerve damage in his --hands playing this. Not according to the Franklin Museum here in Philadelphia which has a working armonica on display. It is played daily by staff who also give a detailed history of Franklin and the armonica. What they do state is consideratation was given to the lead based components used in early armonicas coming into contact with the players fingers (and possibly entering thus slowly poisoning the individual). Museum is located behind the Franklin Post Office (between 3rd and 4th streets on Market) and is downstairs. It is required viewing for everyone that has come to visit my family in Philadelphia. Especially if you can find the staff member that can play "America the Beautiful".

    --
    10 MD .\crash 20 CD .\crash 30 GOTO 10
  34. Amorica type music still played by puzzled · · Score: 2, Interesting

    A few years ago I came across a fellow named Harry Christian on the street in Haight Asbury, right across from the used book store.

    Harry had about twenty glasses of various sizes, partially filled with water, sitting on a card table, along with copies of his new CD. I spent quite a bit of time talking to him - there are apparently about a dozen players worldwide that are active at the moment and he is the only one recording.

    Sorry no web site that I can mention, but I did purchase his disk - shall I contact him and see if he wouldn't mind my putting up an MP3 of his stuff?

    --
    I am very easy to get along with, but I don't have time to waste being nice to people who are being stupid. -Theo
  35. The inventor of the bicycle by Stephen+Samuel · · Score: 2
    It would be interesting to find out if any other early inventors shared Franklin's generous views on patents.

    The inventor of the bicycle (a blacksmith who made one with iron wheels) refused to patent it, and seemed to have been pleased that other people copied (and later improved on) his design.

    There was a story about him a month or so ago in The Georgia Straight a month, or so ago, but I don't have the time to hunt it down (got a class to get off to).

    --
    Free Software: Like love, it grows best when given away.
  36. Re:Idealistic by renehollan · · Score: 2
    ...and in the case of the glass armonica, I'm sorry but I have my doubts that this ever helped any less fortunate persons to obtain food, clothing or shelter.

    Not in the direct sense, of course, but the issue is that Franklin did not exploit it via a patent, excluding others from making them. Taken in that light, Franklin was generous to "allow" others to benefit from his ideas, without having to pay tribute.

    Of course, if you reject the legitimacy of state-enforced patent protection, then Franklin had no right to restrict production by others in the first place. Still, refusing to exploit a law for one's exclusive benefit, so that others might share in the wealth of one's ideas strikes me as generous, nevertheless.

    The connection with charity is weak, but the common point is that not everything people with a capitalist mindset do is necessarily for their own benefit.

    However, even though I have disagreed with you on some points, I must commend you on your charitable nature, you are truely a giving person and the world can always use more of that. Kudos to you my freind.

    Gee, shucks. I am by no means a phlanthropist, and I do enjoy various luxeries in life (I live in a nice house, have decent A/V equipment, and like to eat and drink well), that many might find decadent. But, damn, I work hard to earn the money to pay for it all, and the funds I spend continue to make the wheels of the economy turn. I support charities to the extent that it doesn't cramp my lifestyle, and try to not indulge my vices too excessively. In other words, I am hardly a saint, looking out for the poor. I think I'm pretty much like most decent people, selfish in my desire of creature comforts, but not cruel to the point of depriving the unfortunate of things I no longer need or want, but that they might find useful.

    One of the best ways to help others, I've found, is donation of outgrown children's clothes, toys, and furniture to organizations that can put them to good use.

    --
    You could've hired me.
  37. Re:Idealistic by renehollan · · Score: 2
    Are you referring to the patent system?

    The point I saw was that capitalists exploit social conventions to permit the leverage of their capital. Taking advantage of a patent system is one way of doing this, but, would not be something a libertarian would do -- not all capitalists are libertarians.

    However, capitalists, whether libertarian or not, do not do everything with the thought of personal benefit in mind.

    --
    You could've hired me.
  38. EBay by PD · · Score: 2

    As far as I can tell, there's absolutely no glass armonicas or glass harmonicas that have ever sold on EBay. Some music has though.

    What do these things cost?