Slashdot Mirror
MSNBC Reviews the Sharp Zaurus
Khalid sent in a link to this review of the Sharp Zaurus. They only noted a few flaws, such as the synchronization being harder than necessary, and generally seemed to like it, at least better than the Wall Street Journal columnist did.
I've been looking for a cellular wireless internet solution for a while (Palm VII didn't cut it) and the Zaurus seems very expandable. Does anyone have any experience with the Zaurus and/or Verizon 3G (or any other cellular internet service?).
the article was written by by a knowledgable techie and so obviosuly he would like a powerful handheld... the problem with this is that these are nice but a bit bulky and someone who doesn't want to run linux programs might not be so impressed... im not saying its a bad product but i am saying i hope that others find it to be just as useful or else we might never see another linux handheld again...
unzip; strip; touch; finger; mount; fsck; more; yes; unmount; sleep
I mean - c'mon. I only want a few things:
1) GBA type game functionality
2) An address book that synchs with my desktop and email system
3) Functional, worldwide, wireless broadband (this isn't really a part of the PDA itself, it just doesn't exist yet)
4) A way to input text that is private and equally fast to touch typing
#2 and 4 are already well past developed, 1 has no business implications, and 3 isn't going to happen until god knows when - but in all reality (and I mean wireless broadband scattered across Alasakan wilderness) I don't see it happening for another 20 years or more.
So it runs Linux. Great. That Samsung box that lets me remotely administer unix boxes looks even better - but until all my requirements are met, I'm not upgrading from my POS Palm III.
Why bulky? (I have a Zaurus and have seen it together with Pocket PC's and Palms.) The Zaurus is about the same size.
Most people don't care if they run Linux or some other programs on their PDA as long as they get their work done.
*I*, however, *do* care because that means that I can use the same programs on the desktop and the handheld. My (Windows-using) techie collegues are amazed when they see that I can VNC into the Zaurus, or ssh into it and manage files with MC, or make backups with ssh+tar+bzip2.
You find lots of software. IPSEC kernel? Apache with PHP so you can develop wherever you are? Vim? Python? MC? mplayer? ogg player? Doom?
Everything there.
Computers. You can't live with them, you can't live without them.
I just bought mine last week at Best Buy, only $250 bucks!!!! They were on clearance and I got their demo model. Not a shabby deal. I absolutly love it. I am planning on flashing OpenZaurus this weekend. Its good to see the Linux PDA marekt getting a little pub!
peace...
"Always give your best, never get discouraged, never be petty..."
Maybe they are just operating on a more subtle level. I don't know about you, but reading that arcticle really made me want to eat Chee-tos(tm).
What good is a Linux PDA that doesn't sync with Linux desktops? Form the FAQ: What operating systems is the Zaurus SL-5500 synchronisation software compatible with? The Zaurus SL-5500 synchronisation software is compatible with Microsoft® Windows® 98, 98SE, Millennium, 2000 Professional, XP and NT 4.0 with SP6.
1. You can run a gameboy emulator on the Zarus.
3. You don't really need wireless access in the Alaskan wilderness. There are providers who will definately cover you almost everywhere you'll really go.
Think of the Zaurus as a mixture of a PDA and a Palmtop(think toshiba Liberetto). You get the basic functionality you need out of a PDA... instant on, PIM functions, ect... You also get most of the full feature applications you want. Supposedly because it uses Linux many applications whould only require a simple recompile. I havn't found it that easy, but everything I need has already been ported. I used to carry a palm for phone numbers and a datebook, along with a laptop for divx and connecting to my companies network. Now I use Zaurus' built in PIM and installed The Kompany's video player as well as a terminal emulator for work. Its great.
Business News and Resources: www.usasource.net
The main problem I have with the Zarus is that it is FAR heavier than it competitors. I can't carry it around in my pocket, so what good is it?
Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
It would be very interesting to know what is the manufacturing cost per unit, when the Zaurus really enters mass production. Did the Linux choice make it significantly cheaper? And what kind of effect did the choice have on development costs. There must be some developers who participated in doing this out there, leak some info, please :))
> ... and I can't see how it would be all that useful on a PDA!
First, make yourself realize what is Linux cause it's easy to understand it only as the incarnations you see most often, like a webserver, or on desktop, or even in a cashier. But then, when you really understand that it is a codebase that you can twist to do about anything, then answer the question: in which purpose it is NOT all that useful. I can not come up with many, maybe - for now - only some cases in which a "really-really" tru real-time extremely-low-latency operating system is needed.
Why is everybody talking about syncing. Syncing sucks. With this linux PDA, i can use wireless lan att my work, school and home to acces my online calendars, todolists and email. NO SYNC! Real time information. It rocks!
Why sync? Why not just use wireless LAN / bluetooth->mobilephone->3G/GPRS->Internet , and access an online calendar, todolist, email, etc.. No need for sync in a perfect world!
And regarding games; Since it runs linux and is open source, lots of people have developed games for it. Ex: Doom, Quake, FreeCiv (Civilization clone), scummVM (enables you to run monkey island 1&2, fate of atlantis, day of the tentacle, full throttle, sam & max, etc), and many many more.
Check out: http://killefiz.de/zaurus/ (under ex. "Games" there are 75(!) games)
I would buy a Zaurus immediately if I could run PalmOS programs on it, because all my friends run PalmOS. Since it runs Linux, I recon it shouldn't be too hard to program a Palm emulator, should it?
After browsing the replies here, I found that most slashdot users have little, or no, idea
:) Now the "future is truly here". ;)
of what the zaurus really can do.
1) It is cheaper than similar (hardware-wise) PDAs from compaq, etc
2) The sync application is not so good, but since being open source, lots of people are developing alternative versions. But IMOHO syncing is inecessary. I use a wireless-LAN CF card when I am in school/home/work, and I will get myself a bluetooth card later for wireless internet "on the go": Zaurus ("Z")->Bluetooth->Ericsson T39m->GPRS/3G->INTERNET. With Internetaccess I can use my central (web)calendar, todolists, and access email/IRC, without the need to sync or fiddle anything at all. The whole concept of syncing is
wrong; It is much better to have a central copy on a server (wich is backuped).
3) With the Zaurus you get an powerful Linux system right in your pocket. Possibilities to run apache, PHP, mysql, LOTS of games, LOTS of other programs (such as media players, etc), you can mount samba/NFS partitions and much more!!
Before you say "Zaurus runt linux, so what, it sux", go and have a read at: http://killefiz.de/zaurus/
4) The support is, since being opensource, GREAT, Just headover to www.zauruszone.com and ask whatever you want. The community is often more competent than the average support personel, and you WILL gett answers to your problems and a solution (please contribute and answer to other peoples questions later when you have knowledge).
(Like in communism - From each according to his ability, to each according to his need)
IHMOHO the "Z" is the best thing that has happend since, I dont know what, color graphics?.
in our household, we have a zaurus, running linux (bought last week) and two cassiopeia e-125's (bought several months ago) ...
... why? well, you've got more options.
... just don't.)
... you're all set (how did they not get sued?) You can also shrug off the help of a GUI, and use your favorite gcc, with cross-compilation support. You can also install all sorts of interpreters on it. You can install a webserver and php, for example. Python, perl ... whatever. Recompile, and push to the pda. Or even better, install gcc on the pda, and compile there! (okay, maybe not -- it's not the fastest thing around.)
... how many of you actually -love- win32api calls that are broken, the ability to develop -only- under nt/w2k/xp (yes, we're running it, but c'mon ... choices?) and the fact that you pretty much have to use eMbedded Visual Studio to do your work? It's a pain ... but it does work. You just don't have many options. The VB thing is easy to use, but for those of us who hate VB, there's still C++ ... only ... it's really not helpful. At all. It would help if we had a bit more experience with visual studio ... but as we use it only for command-line apps, and run to builder for anything window-y ... well ... we've already got a bias against it.
... insert into CF card reader, mount it (in my case, it thinks it's sda1) and have fun that way.
we're all programmers. each of us with a pda. but i can tell you, if you wanna program on the damn things, linux beats windows
for the casio's, we've got:
-python 1.x interpreter (hey, it's amusing, okay?)
-the microsoft SDK (3.0 and 4.0, more on that later.)
-vb (don't
for the zaurus, we've got:
-everything you could imagine.
let me expand on that -- because the linux pda runs Qt natively, you can use the Qt-[Borland-Builder-esque] designer to build applications. it's great. it's c++, and the framework doesn't suck. didn't take long, and if you're used to Borland Builder
Now, for windows
Okay, so maybe we suck at visual studio. But at least the Zaurus offers a -lot- of options for creating your own programs. No, you won't be able to just port your X apps to it directly (it -is- Qt, not X.)
Did i mention it was cool to just ftp to your zaurus, etc.? Cassiopeia support under linux is this: take the CF card out
Yep, I just browsed some US price lists, and my eyes nearly popped out. I'm still considering getting a Zaurus, but man, we're really getting ripped off here. Seems to be a common trend in the PDA market, though, another PDA I'm considering, the Toshiba e310 (cute thing), is also vastly more expensive in Europe than in the US.
Switch back to Slashdot's D1 system.
You mean it works a bit differently than Office and you had to go learn something!
Consider this take - I hadn't used it either, and my son had a term paper to do. He had never used a word processor in his life before. So he learned on OpenOffice. He thinks that page numbers are fields and that is the way it's suppossed to be! I also went to the trouble of installing OpenOffice on all the PC's in his class room. The teacher thought it was GREAT to get Office software for free!
Now if the rest of the school wasn't covered with old Macs - I'd complete the conversion!
Have you compiled your kernel today??
This journalist is nothing like the guy from the WSJ who gave the device such a bad rap. This guy mentions vi and ping in his review. He also tries it with 802.11b, which is where I believe this device really becomes a killer app.
He claims 4-5 hours with 802.11b, which I thought was more than I remember hearing.
Being a Java programmer, lots of options really open up for making this device do useful things. There are lots of really cool projects you could do, from controlling your server remotely, managing, and may be streaming your MP3's, run remote X sessions, etc. The thing is basically, as he says, a handheld computer which is not in the same league as most PDA's.
Amazon has them for $439 and change: Sharp Zaurus SL-5500 (affiliate link, so ya know)
This device is on the list of toys, or tools, I want to get. It is good to see the prices are coming down toward a point I may consider purchasing one, even though I (as of yet) don't have a real useful purpose for it. It's still over $500 equipped with 802.11.
-Pete
Soccer Goal Plans
I agree. I'm very tempted to get a Zaurus so I can do Perl development under Apache... You could even do mod_perl in your pocket - a far cry from the Palm where only mickey-mouse web servers are available, and no Perl.
Even if you have great wireless LAN/WAN (802.11b/Bluetooth/3G/GPRS) connectivity, there will always be times when the wireless link is down, or simply too congested to be used (happens a lot at peak times and in busy cells with GPRS at present, since it competes with profitable voice calls).
The ideal wireless app, IMO, does background syncing, so that at any time you can (check email/check calendar/find contacts/etc). Vindigo and AvantGo for the Palm work like this (except you need to tell them to sync), meaning you always have Vindigo's database of restaurants/bars/movies (including local cinemas), and Avantgo's news/magazine pages. Very convenient...
RIM's Blackberry email device works like this, meaning you can write emails when out of coverage and it will then send/receive emails as soon as it gets into coverage. I think this is one reason it is so successful - the wireless connection is automatic and it essentially hides any coverage issues from the user.
Get em while they last! Make sure to get to the booth EARLY, cause at JavaOne this year we had 3-4 hour lines going around the BLOCK at Moscone.
My iPAQ does much the same with it's CF sleeve, and Linux installed on it, except with a MUCH shorter battery life (45 minutes with an Ambicom 802.11b card... ! ) and no keyboard. I'm thinking of selling my iPAQ and seeing what I can get off of eBay....
--j
How exactly does one run Apache and mySQL on a PDA? What would be the applications of it in the real world?
There sure are a lot of geeks that do Linux development. Imagine being able to take your whole development environment, with exactly the same tools you use on a PC, stick it in your pocket and take it wherever you go. Remember the Zaurus even has a small, but perfectly-formed keyboard. Why bother with a laptop?
As for how to run Apache and MySQL, it's simple: just install the packages, like you would on any other Linux system. You wouldn't get much space for the database with the Zaurus' memory, but it would be plenty for most development and testing.
For developing custom applications very quickly, the zaurus kicks booty, but it would be irresponsible to suggest to someone the zaurus as something you could use for phone numbers or schedules, no matter how many other cool features it has.
Note: Right now, the linux community is in hardcore denial about usability problems in general, and any attempt to deny the truth of this post only further proves the truth of it.
Ergonomica Auctorita Illico!
> Linux in a cashier? Does that mean they will soon install linux into pimply faced teenagers working down at the local McDonald's?
In more civilized countries we have these things called automatic cashiers so the word "cashier" does not anymore mean just human beings. Spooky, ehh?
> Maybe we can install Linux in your penis so it will have a constant uptime and I won't be forced to continually fuck your wife.
Good idea, for you I suggest just lowering your clock speed, seems like its getting too hot.
I don't have a zaurus, but I want to get one so I tracked down the ogg123 port to the zaurus: http://killefiz.de/zaurus/showdetail.php?app=201 . I don't know if it actually works, so I guess someone with a Zaurus should try it and tell all of us if it really works (please?).
HAL 7000, fewer features than the HAL 9000, but just as homicidal!
You are not reading this wrong, the author has miss-stated the situation. What he intended to state was Over the years Sharp has never joined the PalmOS or WinCE/PocketPC bandwagons -- opting for an operating system they have built internally or farmed out to one of their subsidiaries and not re-distributed.
They are far from the only company to do that. I doubt that the setback thermostat, your microwave, your car or your TV uses an open source operating system, or even wince/poktpc or PalmOS. None of them really need that power or overhead.
This may change in the future, though I have no proof one way or the other.
-Rusty
You never know...
My local Best Buy had the SL-5500 on clearance for $325. I don't see it on their website so you'll have to go look for it.
I think Sharp has the best PDA hardware out there. It's a great package if you're the kind of person who would want a CF slot on your PDA (size comparisons with the iPaq usually ignore the "sleeve" required for CF). The PIM software, on the other hand, sucks. Someone described it as looking like the result of a class project, and I have to agree. Others in this thread have covered the "hackability" aspect thoroughly, and I agree that it appeals to geeks. But I'm afraid there will be no next gen Linux Zaurus because this one is going to tank in the market. No one buys a PDA for the sexy hardware expecting to install all new software later.
I've played with a few of them in different stores. About half were stuck at the 'lock' screen because someone figured out how to set a code and left it that way. Most are trapped in a anti-theft cage which doesn't allow the keyboard cover to open all the way. The keyboard is inactive until the cover is in the "open" detent, so it appears to be broken. Office Depot appears to have all the accessories out but no *units*. This is a disaster when you can play with 5+ palm devices and 5+ WinCE devices in any store.
On the zaurus' datebook, in the single day view I can't click on the lines to immediately start entering the time. And in fact, they're not even lines, they're thinly disguised Windows/KDE text fields (Which is stupid, because the palm's use of lined text fields makes the whole interface feel more natural, like paper. Paper is the most vicious and ruthless ane efficient competitor of any PDA, but I digress).
In order to create the new appointment on the Zaurus I have to go upward (BTW, did I mention people in western cultures read from up to down), to the document icon to create a new date entry, which only further proves that trolltech tried to carbon copy a desktop interface into a PDA one. This is far less intuitive then merely placing your stylus on the line and starting to write like on the Palm. I'll admit the palm does have a button that brings up a time entry dialog (if you choose to do it that way. But you're not forced to, like on the Zaurus), but the button on the palm to do this is not some ambiguous-looking unlabled icon like on the Zaurus but a run of the mill button with the labell "new".. No guessing or risk-taking required. And the "new" button on the Palm is located under the time slots, not above like on the Zaurus, so the Palm keeps in step with the way people read things.
Guess what happens once I get the Zaurus' modal dialog for a entering a new date? The text fields for 'Description' and 'Location' are already filled with "(None)" and "(Unknown)". Why are they already filled? I haven't even decided to write anything in them yet! And if a field is left blank, isn't it already obvious that the value is unknown? What's worse, I have to erase the crap in these text fields in order to write my own stuff in them. Users always expect text fields to only contain stuff that they have actively written in them, and Trolltech has greatly violated that expectation by automatically stuff into them.
To focus the "Description" text field for a Zaurus event I have to tap on it yet again, whereas the palm focused the description field when I selected the time.
To finish off entering a date on the Zaurus I have to go up to the right hand corner of the titlebar (again, the bizarre 'down to up' fetish) and hit "Ok". On a palm, there is no hitting "Ok". You don't need to confirm an entry, the entry is merely just as you left it. The PalmOS UI is stateless, which is the direction that many of the foremost HCI professionals say we should be going in. And stateless UI lends itself very well to devices where everything in stored in ram.
Oh, I almost forgot, on the Zaurus' datebook, not everything fits within the width of the screen (including the widgets). I have to scroll horizontally to manipulate widgets on the edge. On the palm, no horizontal scrolling required. Every single widget fits precisely on the screen.
Tap summary:
Total minimum # of taps requred: 1
Total minimum # of taps required: 4.
I can understand why you like the Zaurus' keyboard--it doesn't handle the stylus half as efficiently as the Palm does.
About my disclaimer:
The first step in solving a problem is to admit that you have one. My point: Right Now, most of the linux community absolutely refuses to admit that they have usability problems. According to them, we don't have usability problems, we just have people spreading FUD about linux being hard to use. If anyone with any interface design background points out these problems, they are immediately met with incredulity and some really nasty denials.
When I say "this product has severe usability problems because we've got so many linux zealots denying that there is a usability problem" and then some linux zealot starts screaming "Bullsh*t, there is no usability problems!", the linux zealot has effectively proven my point far better than I ever could.
Ergonomica Auctorita Illico!