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Which DVD Recordable Format Will Win?
kila_m writes: "Their is a format war going on between two recordable formats 'DVD-R' and 'DVD+R.' Both formats do virtually the same thing i.e. are readable in most DVD-ROM drives - but a '-' disk is not recordable in a '+' drive and vice-versa. We have a
review of the Pioneer DVR-A04 - the worlds best-selling DVD writer and based on the '-' format. I would like get an view of what recordable format Slashdot readers prefer or think is going to win."
DVD-R will win, because it has almost 100% compatibility with existing DVD players. DVD+R (from what I understand) is not nearly as compatible. Sort of like CD-R versus CD-RW.
Well truth is I have both an A03 and an A04 drive so I am hoping DVD-R will win. There is also the simple fact that DVD-R seems to be most compatabile in most non computer hardware playback machines.
Some people are going to end up being mighty sorry when they blow a thousand dollars on a burner and they don't have any disks available to burn...
Friends don't let friends use multiple inheritance.
My question is: Can any of the DVD's written by these burners be played in a standard home DVD player? Sorry, I just crawled out from under a rock and haven't been following the DVD format wars or anything. I don't want this to pirate DVD's, I was thinking more on the lines of capturing video to disk, then burning it on a DVD.
No matter where you go... there you are.
This all happened with CD-Rs.
Remember CD-E? That went away and so will all DVD systems besides two. One for writeable, and one for rewrite.
-twb
It's Pioneer in the -R camp vs. Sony, HP, Ricoh, Dell, Yamaha, and Philips in the +R camp. The reason that -R is more popular currently is because +R is only relatively recently available.
Usually, what happens is either:
You have two less frequent variants:
This leads me to think neither DVD-R nor DVD+R will win, and they will be replaced by yet another standard that will force users to upgrade yet again. The manufacturers are obviously OK with this, as this makes more profits for them, at the expense of slowing the initial acceptance of the technology. Consumers aren't complete idiots either, apart from a fringe of early adopters who are used to being shafted anyways, myself included (I own an Apple iMac with a Pioneer DVD-R drive)
You can't fit a whole movie on a home recorded DVD?R anyway. So what exactly is the practical use?
You can pick up an A04 (DVD-R) for $300 at newegg, that's actually not a bad deal.
Saying Java is nice because it works on all OS's is like saying that anal sex is nice because it works on all genders.
We have a MacG4 with a SuperDrive in it, but now we are looking for a DVD player that will allow us to view a test disc. We use DVD-R General discs because they are cheap and allow us multiple tries without toasting a $25 disc and then find an error. We're thinking of going to DVD-RW because after a several burns, they are cheaper. We are also not opposed to going to +R or +RW if the cost/benefit is there.
In the Aug 2002 issue of DV Magazine, they review the different formats (DVD-R, DVD+RW, DVD-RW but not DVD+R). They look at compatiblity w/players, disc failure rate by disc manufacturer, and other factors. It offers a good read and lots of info if you are interested. They even list players that can accept all of the formats. It has helped us make a decision on a player (Apex makes a nice model).
An interesting fact about the "+" standard is that it is incompatable with the current dual AMD boards (MP and MPX chipset). This is a problem that I found out from selling a computer configured with both a ASUS a7m266-d and a DVD+R+RW. When the problem showed up we tryed changing motherboards, then brand of motherboard, and finally brands of DVD+ drive.
HP and Sony both blame AMD. AMD says that the problem lies in a data protocol required for the dual chips that the "+" standard interfers with.
The "-" is fully compatable and works perfect. So my vote goes to the "-" standard because of compatablity and I don't trust Sony and HP. (especially since we saw a bunch of issues with packet writing and the Sony CDRW drive)
I think... I mean, do what you want, hey, to each his own, right?
/sec, reading off a RAID array onto tape.
;p
Personally, if I was backing up data, I'd use a tape drive. Especially if we're talking about 500 gigs. Unless I'm thinking of something wrong, recordable DVD is around 5 GB, right? So, you're talking about 100 discs.
That's not exactly chump change.
You can get a Quantum 40/80 DLT drive for nearly exactly $1000. Just check www.pricewatch.com for more details. The 40/80 is compressed/uncompressed, so assuming your data compresses even much worse than average, you can squeeze in 50 GB/tape. So, 10 tapes. And it writes very quickly - I've easily gotten 30 MB (not Mbit)
As for easier to find files/directories, any decent backup progam will just ask you what you want to restore, and then tell you to put in tape #X. DVD-/+R isn't exactly something that won't crap out any more or less than anything else - if anything, they're really prone to scratching. Once the tape is out of the drive, it's a fully encased hockey puck.
I wouldn't play with it, but I mean, you could.
The -R and -RAM formats own the consumer video recorder market. The -RAM format has the key advantage of very fast random access time, so fast that you can record and play-back from the same disk simultaneously in real time.
The -R format is currently the most compatible with existing players. Truthfully though, worrying about which format will work with existing and older players is irrelevant. It would be like worrying about CD-R because older players won't work with it. If you need to read the disks, get a player that will do so. I'd be willing to make a bet that withing a year's time there won't be a player sold that won't read both -R and +R and quite a few that will read -RAM (especially from Panasonic).
The only area where there is any room for competition will be in the computer arena, but even then there will be no clear victor for a very long time. With +R drives and media being much more expensive than -R, I think that -R has a bright future here as well.
Lee
Muslim community leaders warn of backlash from tomorrow morning's terrorist attack.
>If I buy a hard drive, or a Motherboard, or both, I can buy an OEM License for Windows 2000 at the same time for $140.
I know, that's why I said $440. Using prices the AC quoted: $300 drive + $300 in extra parts required as per specs + your $140 for a windows license. Since in Linux I only needed to buy a drive it was $300. But in windows the AC says I will need $300 in hardware, and obviously you must license the machine. Total: $740, or a $440 difference between me using that burner in windows, or using it in Linux.
BTW: You do realize that the OEM license has the following limitations:
- Absolutely no support from M$. Microsoft can stop updating the day you buy it and you can't even phone and complain.
- It is only good for the machine you buy it for. Moving it onto any computer in any way violates the license.
- Can only be installed legally on a complete new system. Which means that I can't buy it along with those parts if I want to be legal.
It would be pointless to buy a windows license if I were to install it illegally. Yes, I can provide proof of the above.
The full version of windows XP professional (and I assume 2k) is $300, which is the only version I could use (apart from XP Castrated Edition, which I have and want to punch through a wall now that I see I can't even use my Samba Domain server. Why does M$ want to limit the security of home users _so much_?).
But, because $600 extra for using my burner in windows is extreme, I thought I'd be nice and say I'd buy castrated windows XP OEM for $140.
>Is there a broken X11 calculator that some of you use when pricing up Microsoft OEM products?
I dunno, did IE mangle my post or the ACs post on you? If so, sorry! You might want to try Mozilla.
If you could be told what you can see or read, then it follows that you could be told what to say or think - BoC
Given that SONY is pushing DVD+RW, and also pushing broadcast flags and "digital rights management" (and shutting off firewire ports on future Tivo recorders, and mandating broadcast flags in same) one should stay far away from DVD+RW and anything else SONY is behind. Phillips has been leading the push in Congressional hearings at the Commerce Department at other departments against the broadcast flag and drm controls. Panasonic is also behind the DVD-Ram. As for DVD-Ram vs. DVD+RW, the DVD-Ram is better for random access reading and writing, one of the considerations that I am sure slashdot readers take into account when purchasing hardware, and not just Joe sixpack's concern on whether he can watch his pron dvd's.
Sony and Phillips are at opposite ends of the spectrum when it comes to broadcast flags and drm (and fair use rights). Phillips is in the corner of the consumer, and Sony is in the corner of greed. You decide who to support, but you should keep random access performance in mind when it comes to choosing which format to buy. I can't afford two DVD recordable drives, and the one I purchase must give me random access performance for my data, as well as the ability to play DVDs. Due to the design of DVD+RW, and DVD-RW, they both will never approach the random access capabilities of DVD-Ram, regardless of how the manufacturers pitch it to you.
DVD-Rs dont write in an hour and half, the A04 does 2x writing, which means about 30 minutes. DVD+R does it at 2.4x - we're not talking huge time savings..
I have an external firewire version of the Pioneer A04 drive, and I'm reasonably satisfied with its reliability and performance.
However, it's pretty difficult finding compatible media that it can use without making a fuss. The blank DVD-R discs sold from the website firewiredirect.com works like a charm and the drive burns them at full speed and the discs can be read in near anything else.
Other brands of DVD-R discs don't work near as well, and sometimes take twice as long to burn. Nero reports zero buffer allocation for seconds at a time when I'm not using the 'good' brand,
and occasionally those discs don't read in any other drive than the A04.
My point, in short, is to be sure you find a supplier of 'good' media for your DVD burner and buy a few samples of different kinds to determine which works best for you. The different brands have different shades of purple colors, the more reddish purple kind works best for my drive.
A Question for the DVD techies here: Why can't we record using the exact same method of recording used for commercial movies?
Is this a deliverate messure by the DVD patent holders? How do the movie studios record (or test) movies? Can we get one of those drives? how much do they cost and who makes them???