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Security In Voice Over IP Converged Networks

dotslash writes: "This article at Internet Telephony Magazine has a very interesting analysis of security issues created by converging data and telephony networks with VoIP: "When the phenomenon of "convergence" between telephony and Internet started, it also brought closer the world of the phreaker and the hacker. VoIP brings all this to the next level. Unfortunately, the security inherent in VoIP solutions is equivalent to that of the early Internet: Non-existent.""

49 of 113 comments (clear)

  1. Simple Answer by coryboehne · · Score: 2

    Don't use it for anything that should be even remotely secure.... or encrypt the data, but I like the first answer better.....

    1. Re:Simple Answer by homer_ca · · Score: 3, Insightful

      That's pretty much it. Educate the users so they are aware of the level of privacy. Police, fire, taxis and pilots have for years used (and still use) unencrypted analog 2 way radios. Anybody with a scanner could eavesdrop on them, and they lived with that risk.

      I'm not saying it's a good idea to just forget about security, but people should remember there's nothing sacred about privacy electronic communications. If it's really important to keep something secret, don't say it on an insecure line.

    2. Re:Simple Answer by coryboehne · · Score: 2

      and even then watch wtf you put over the line.

  2. As if analog was better? by jdclucidly · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Anyone equiped with a standard issue electrician's but-set can walk up to a house, pop open the telco terminal and listen/make phone calls on any line in the house. Same goes for corporate lines.

    "Virtually no security" is an improvement over "_no_ security."

    1. Re:As if analog was better? by demaria · · Score: 2

      Really paranoid people get encryption modems for their phone calls. :-)

    2. Re:As if analog was better? by Casca · · Score: 2

      It's a little more difficult than that if the phone system is digital. I'm not talking VoIP, just digital.

      --
      Casca
  3. Security inherited from IP network? by gatekeep · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Granted, security should be implemented at each layer if possible, but wouldn't VoIP inherit the security of the IP network itself? So far, most VoIP installations I've seen/heard about are either within an office, connecting handsets to a PBX with traditional trunks, or between offices of the same company using their internal WAN. Granted you can still have attacks internally, but in neither of these scenarios is it very easy for the general public to snoop or intercept your phone calls.

    That said, I really don't see VoIP on a large scale taking off for a while. Two things need to occur before that happens;

    - Suitably fast data service has to be ubiquitous. Spotty DSL/Cable coverage won't do it.
    - Said data service has to be less expensive than conventional phone service. This one's a no brainer.
    - Wireless data on a large scale would help as well.

    So far, I don't see these criteria being met in all but niche markets, and that's exactly where VoIP has found itself... for now.

    1. Re:Security inherited from IP network? by Martin+Blank · · Score: 3, Informative

      I've been using Vonage's service for a couple of months now, and except for some minor issues when I'm doing file transfers, the signal is clear, and definitely worth it. I've lowered my phone bill by about $25 a month (I pay about $40 for the service), and will soon be removing a couple of additional things so that they balance out. In addition, a few family members are considering moving to Vonage.

      Now security is a bit of a concern, but since most people who would want to intercept my calls would likely try either the analog line first or else try to intercept the cordless phone signal, I'm not worried too much. If they can get in, they can listen to me get pestered by friends for solutions, or hear about how my nephew across the country is doing well in school. If I had something really pressing, I'd look for another solution, but for now I'm content to wait for the service to provide support through a firmware update, and if they don't and I need it then I'll look for something else.

      --
      You can never go home again... but I guess you can shop there.
    2. Re:Security inherited from IP network? by afidel · · Score: 3, Informative

      That said, I really don't see VoIP on a large scale taking off for a while.

      Then you are crazy. The amount of money that can be saved by rerouting interoffice calls over the corporate wan is staggering. Because business class SLA's on PRI's for voice are so expensive many businesses are still paying rates close to what consumers were 10 years ago, not the great low rates we are used to today. In the case of our large (180 person) satelite office nearly 80% of our long distance traffic (measured in minutes) was back to one of the companies two major north american campuses or to our manufacturer in taiwan, when we decided to move to VoIP it was determined that the equipment would pay for itself in about 9 months, not a bad ROI at all!

      --
      There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
    3. Re:Security inherited from IP network? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      That said, I really don't see VoIP on a large scale taking off for a while.
      You are failing to consider large-scale campus and satellite office type situations. Two terrific examples being Enormous State University and Maximegalon Consolidated, Inc.. Each of them is just dying to get VOIP going, just to save on long-distance charges between the disparate campuses where they do business. Flat rates is always preferable to toll-based rates. Especially business rates.

      What amazes me is that most post here that I've read are considering freedom from evesdropping as the only inmportant aspect of security. Far more important in this situation is theft-of-service.

      Some folks have brought up the obvious aspect of this by pointing out that live, unsupervised network jacks are not exactly uncommon on large university campuses, often also in many corporations. Throw unsecured wireless nets in and the networks become very porous indeed. While those ARE potential disabling factors in VOIP security, they aren't the true achilles heel. Those are the issues that are already known from the regular computing-over-IP security regimen. There are well known security regimens to handle tham. Those may or may not exist at any given location, depending on the diligence of the security professionals.

      What few people are considering is something that is built right into VOIP, as an aspect of adapting private-network telephony to the public-network internet: VOIP call signaling is IN-BAND. I'll say it again: Voice-Over-IP signalling is IN-BAND.

      You can encrypt the content of the call all you want, but the information necessary to get the calls through on VOIP has to be accessible to the devices that route the call. Encryption (at current tech) of the signalling will slow down the call enough to impact quality of service.

      If you can eavesdrop on signalling info, you can pretty easily spoof it. Spoof it, and you get a free net-dail-tone. Spammers like open mail relays; hacking/phreaking college students will LOVE open out-bound lines to ANYWHERE.

    4. Re:Security inherited from IP network? by gatekeep · · Score: 2

      Maybe things are different in your business, but at my company (commercial real estate) we make a lot of calls out to clients, potential clients, etc.. While there's quite a bit of internal communications, we can get phone service cheaper through traditional PRI circuits than we can by doing VoIP when you factor in the bandwidth needed for it.

      Sometimes I think that gets overlooked in doing pricing comparisions. Bandwidth isn't free. PRI SLAs aren't cheap, but Frame circuits, PVCs, and CIR aren't cheap either.

    5. Re:Security inherited from IP network? by afidel · · Score: 2

      ah but you get better rates the more bandwidth you buy, not so with voice curcuits. Since eventually even most satelite offices will have some type of optical connection back to headquarters the spare bandwidth will be esentially free.

      --
      There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
  4. Security by jaavaaguru · · Score: 2

    The current laws do not protect security or privacy...

    Well, there is a flaw in the laws regarding IP networks.

    ...nor do they allow law enforcement access for wiretaps

    Again, I'd say this is a flaw in the law.

    The article points out that older analog telephone lines are covered by laws that prevent people from tapping the lines unless it is someone with the authority and authorization to do so. The article makes it look like the laws regarding VoIP are less advanced, and desperately need updated.

    Legal things aside, I would have thought that by now, in this day and age, people would consider security when providing a new service that runs over a computer network. I'm dissapointed in the comapnies who have disregarded security here.

    Is there no easy way to make it all tunnel through SSH?

  5. Little known fact by krich · · Score: 5, Funny

    ... your old Capt Crunch whistle will send 2600Hz over the IP connection, and will give you root on the other end.

  6. Re:SSL by streak · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I think the main concern with using OpenSSL is that it is too slow for real-time data.
    Just think of the amount of packets you have to crypt/decrypt per second.
    If we assume 44khz, 16-bit (depends on the ADC/DAC I guess) data, well that's a lot of packets.
    No one wants to have a 1-2 second delay in their phone conversation.

  7. Who really gives a shit! by noahbagels · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Sorry for swearing - but everyone reading /. is adult enough to get a dose of reality.

    If you're actually reading this thread - you're wasting your time.

    do you really care if someone can easily tap your phone conversations?.

    More importantly:

    is the value of your conversation worth the energy required for someone to crack your phone call?

    In a security course (both in college, and later in a Cisco class) we heard that the risk is equal to the value divided by the effort required to get at that value.
    Now: I don't believe this quote exactly, but it's point is clear.

    Nobody I know would spend the effort required to tap my personal line just to hear something I might not tell them directly.
    Further: Companies with secrets can use:

    I. Standard Non-Secure Phone Lines

    II. Secure VoIP solutions

    III.Standard VoIP solutions over a VPN
    ... need I go on?

    1. Re:Who really gives a shit! by thogard · · Score: 2

      In a security course (both in college, and later in a Cisco class) we heard that the risk is equal to the value divided by the effort required to get at that value.

      Maybe you should find better instructors. If the value of the cracking a system exceeds its costs then there are a different set of people that will be tring to crack the system. Most web site cracks have no value (money wise) to the cracker.

  8. Re:Do old school phreaks still work by gatekeep · · Score: 2

    Most of that stuff won't work anymore.. the tones when you drop a quarter in a phone don't really mean anything anymore, they're just feedback so you know the quarter was registered and such. Course, I suppose if you could find a way old payphone somewhere...

    There's still things that will work though. Not much stopping someone from climbing a pole with a butt phone and tapping another line, etc..

  9. bring bring by joe_bruin · · Score: 3, Funny

    HELO?
    what? is this ~l33t_hax0r? i'm sorry, there's no such user.
    no, no, this is 129.168.0.1, you must have meant to connect to 192.168.0.1.
    j00're welcome.

    *click*

    goddamnit, i gotta install a firewall.

  10. SIP and security. by muonzoo · · Score: 4, Informative

    Many of the current VoIP deployments today are not using the security features that you might expect to see. In large, this is because the standard itself is maturing and the manner in which security will be implemented is still under investigation. In the case of SIP, the article points out that although the payload (voice) might be encrypted, the signalling isn't. This is not entirely true. One thing that SIP permits is to tunnel SIP as a payload within SIP. The external session serves only as a routing mechanism for the fully encrypted 'real' signaling session contained within. These mechanisms are just completing peer review and implementors are just wrapping their heads around it all. One thing is for sure; unlike protocols that have preceeded them, SIP and it's designers are taking security very seriously. How else could they consider using SIP as an integral part of 3GPP and/or it's use for inter-carrier peering.

    Sure, the protocol itself may have exposure issues, and problems with NAT/PAT devices, but there are companies on the market that are addressing these issues as they arise.

    1. Re:SIP and security. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I disagree. The SIP protocol, last I read, has the following problems :

      1) No key exchange
      2) What is the trust infrastructure ? Here we
      are on Amazon,demanding server authenticity for
      our 10 dollar book. Yet the SIP call agents
      don't have a trust infrastructure definition
      and they are supposed to route thousands of
      phone calls.
      3) Partial payload encryption. SIP has fields
      which are hop mutable(changeable). "shudder"
      Stating "we use SSL or IPSec" ain't gonna
      cut it.
      4) SIP is the signalling, xGCP is the control
      and RTP is the data. MGCP is a text protocol
      and their is no standard for encryption this
      bad boy protocol AFAIK.

      What the SIP working group really needs is new WG chairs who will stop letting every 2 bit company get a RFC so that their little POS will work. And then they need to define how the heck
      all the protocols work together. SIP is the signalling ? How does it exchange RTP keys ? Ask a SIP WG member that question... duh.

      I think we should disband the IETF WG since it is fundamentally flawed. It has defined a protocol(and perversed beyond reason), and didn't bother to think how it's gonna work with others securely. No trust models, nothing...at least CableLabs specifications define a security model.

      coward76 AT yahoo DOT com

    2. Re:SIP and security. by leonia · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Also, the article author's are clearly behind on their reading. Plain text passwords (known in HTTP as 'basic' authentication) are explicitly disallowed in RFC 3261, the current SIP spec.

      Also, most SIP proxy servers support TLS for secure connections at least between proxies.

      The security problems are real, but it doesn't help anybody (except consultants, maybe) to spread myths.

  11. SSL wont cut for many reasons by apankrat · · Score: 3, Informative

    Few of them being:

    * it's transport layer protocol, not an IP one. By default it runs on top of TCP, while majority of VOIP protocols do not require TCP's reliability. Needless to say that this is voids no good by any means.

    * it requires reliable carrier for key establishment/renegotiation. Hence dropped and out-of-order packets will effectively break session. This means that you cant just stick SSL between V and IP layers.

    You still can run SSL over unreliable layer (such as UDP or IP itself), but this will require certain protocol 'fixup' effort, which might end up be no less effort than building VoIP security from the scratch.

    The simpliest solution along the lines of your suggestion would be to use IPsec and classical VPNs. Throw in IKE and you get yourself PKI-based system. It'd be somewhat pain in the arse to configure, but as a quick and dirty solution is will suffice.

    --
    3.243F6A8885A308D313
  12. Encryption and Authorization are not the only way by iritant · · Score: 2

    If security of VOIP is no WORSE than that of a normal phone line, then at least you only have to worry about physically securing a single infrastructure as opposed to the multiple parallel ones you had to manage previously.

    Also, in some environments VOIP on top of IPsec may be reasonable. The article is NOT entirely on target (IMHO it's a cheap hit piece). Consider the Cisco IP Phone in a work station. Since a person plugs his or her PC into the phone for network connectivity, you merely need to have some way to trust that the phone is authorized to use QoS, and you can thus encrypt voice traffic AND have the phone do classification.

    And that trust can be gotten on the small with simple approaches such as MAC address lockdowns on your switches.

  13. Re:SSL by apankrat · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Having worked in the subject area for some time, I can assure you that running VoIP and even video conferencing sessions over IPsec/AES tunnels results in the delay less than 1 ms on the P2-350 machines (serving as gateways on both ends).

    I agree that lag may potentially become a problem as number of VoIP sessions grows, but, hey, that's what you need a hardware crypto gadgets.

    --
    3.243F6A8885A308D313
  14. Oxymoron? by vladkrupin · · Score: 2, Funny

    Not like it's all that important, but reading "Unfortunately, the security inherent in VoIP solutions is equivalent to that of the early Internet: Non-existent." made me ponder: How can you be equivalent to something that's non-existent? Isn't it kinda akin to dividing by zero?

    --

    Jobs? Which jobs?
  15. VoIP and webcasting CARP: on a collision course? by dave-fu · · Score: 2

    So I'm listening to WFMU while Station Manager Ken has another of his little tirades about the RIAA and how they're screwing the world over (and they are, unless owing the RIAA $500 a year for webcasting a station with no music on it makes sense to you), and it hits me: what about VoIP? I can't decipher the legalese on the page, but it doesn't strike me as particularly far-fetched that after quashing webcasters, Rosen et al will sic the attack lawyers on businesses who have the audacity to play hold music on their VoIP phone systems.
    If not, hello loophole!

    --
    Easy does it!
    This comment has been submitted already, 276865 hours , 59 minutes ago. No need to try again.
  16. Some Numbers about Voice over IP by FuzzyDaddy · · Score: 2, Informative
    Also having worked in the field for a while, here's some numbers:

    Regular phone networks encode data at 64 kbps (that's bits per second, not bytes) - 8000 samples/seconds, 8 bits per sample.

    Cell phones use more extreme compression, and can transmit at less than 16 kbps. Ever noticed how they sound worse, though?

    Any stream has a built in delay - you have to buffer up enough sound in a packet before you send it off. So a 1 ms delay means 1000 packets a seconds, which is inefficient for voice. Buffering in voice calls is usually tens of milliseconds.

    Delays of under 100 ms are usually not noticable. Delays of 500 ms will bug the crap out of you.

    And, of course, there is the speed of light limitation, (5 milliseconds for 1000 miles - once you route that through a fiber optic cable, it can be a few times that, depending on the dielectric constant of the fiber.).

    --
    It's not wasting time, I'm educating myself.
    1. Re:Some Numbers about Voice over IP by Bill+Currie · · Score: 3, Informative
      A 1ms delay for a packet does not equate to 1000 packets per second. It just means that your (eg) 20ms packet (50 packets per second seems reasnable) comes out 21ms after the first sample went in rather than 20ms.

      As an example, look at ppp: your ping time over a 56k modem to your ppp server is going to be around 100ms but it takes about 250ms for a 1500 byte packet to get transfered which is why modem users often see around 200-300ms ping times when playing online games (depending on the size of the packets). Even with that 100ms delay, you will still get about 4 packets per second even though 350*4=1400 (or 325*4=1300 if you're going to split the ping).

      --

      Bill - aka taniwha
      --
      Leave others their otherness. -- Aratak

  17. Been there, but most other haven't... by xt · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Only a couple of months ago, we finished a roll-out for IP phones. The client was a bank and security was the top consideration. In essence, whatever worked to secure data, worked to secure VoIP. The problem in general is not with the technology; it is with the "old school" PBX designers and engineers.

    I have met quite a few people, extremely skilled with PBXs, who view data networks as a black box and have almost no knowledge or methodology to work with products that use them, much less secure them.

    When these people grasp the realities of the new, converged, technology, we can expect to see quite a few changes both on VoIP systems' built-in security and fail-safe operation.

  18. It has to be said... by TheSHAD0W · · Score: 2

    All your voice are belong to us.

    1. Re:It has to be said... by phunhippy · · Score: 2

      All your voice are belong to us.

      No Sorry your wrong.. All your voice is belong to Echelon..

      move along please have a nice day :)

  19. Not true by Jonny+Ringo · · Score: 2

    I suggest investing in good neighbors for security.

    I my self am a good neighbor. I'm a good neighbor with 5 years worth of experience. Feel free to contact me if you wish to hire me.

  20. Re:SSL by chill · · Score: 2

    44 KHz, 16-bit! Are you out of your mind!?

    Telephone signals -- the current ones -- are 8 bit, 8 KHz and compressed out the wazoo.

    You aren't playing a concert thru the phone, just talking!

    --
    Learning HOW to think is more important than learning WHAT to think.
  21. Re:Do old school phreaks still work by commodoresloat · · Score: 2

    Some really old phones can be found that redboxes work on. There is even a PalmOS application that will make your PDA play redbox tones. Helluva lot better than a hacked Hallmark greeting card!

  22. My School's IP Phone Fiasco by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    My university just recently overhauled the on-campus phone system. They replaced the old (working) system with IP phones. They did the whole job in a matter of months, despite very vocal opposition by the CS department faculty. These Cisco IP phones cost $700 a pop.

    They hooked the central hub of the phone system up to generators in the event of a power failure. Unfortunately, all our phones depend on switches and routers scattered throughout campus, and the phones themselves have DC power adapters. In the event of a power outage, the central hub will stays on-line, but all the phones throughout campus go out!

    When asked what students and faculty should do in the event of an emergency during a power outage, our IT services department responded, "Try to find someone with a cell phone!"

    Worse yet, switches have a mean time to failure of 100,000 hours. With 2,000 switches throughout campus, sections of the phone system go out once every 50 hours. The current average time for IT services to replace a down switch is 2 weeks.

    These phone have web servers, and a few other goodies. I'm just waiting until an IP phone worm takes out our entire campus's network and telecommunications infrastructure.

    1. Re:My School's IP Phone Fiasco by Tmack · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Thats what UPS's are for.

      I work for a VoIP company, doing it with a pure Cisco solution and T1 data lines. The traffic is split at the end router on the customer's site (which has a UPS for itself and the T1 equipment). Their lan plugs into one jack, their phone system (POTS or digital PBX) block into another. The voice traffic goes over the same T1 and DS3's as the data, but on a different "private" network using IPs in the "unroutable" range, until it gets the the voice switch, where it is merged with the national POTS network. The data goes through the same channels, but on publicly accessable IP ranges. All the routers have standard Cisco access security, limiting access via another private network to only machines authed to do so. Also with traffic split in that way, DOS attacks only clog the data line, as the bandwidth for the voice portion is partially reserved.

      As for down-time, the most common cause is the data line itself going down. And being provided by the same company as standard phone service (baby bells), gives the same down-time, or better.
      Also worthy of mention is that standard POTS lines are not the same old analog lines back to the telco as most people believe. They too get digitized along the way and are sent out on T1/DS1 T3/DS3 lines(DS3=28*DS1's, DS1=24*DS0 lines = 672POTS lines/DS3 using TDM/PCM).

      Tm

      --
      Support TBI Research: http://www.raisinhope.org
    2. Re:My School's IP Phone Fiasco by afidel · · Score: 2

      Won't work, inline power only goes to devices that request it, at least it should =) If you always provide power on the non-data pins you will eventually blow up someones equipment, and they will NOT be happy about it. 48V at a couple amps is not your nic's friend.

      --
      There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
    3. Re:My School's IP Phone Fiasco by slashnik · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Interesting,

      How does the cable powered device request power before it's got any?

    4. Re:My School's IP Phone Fiasco by thogard · · Score: 2

      A UPS will give you a few minutes. We have a UPS that we built to run our gear over the summer rolling blackouts. Its got 16 12V deep cycle batteries and it will run most of our computer gear for 4 hours and the critical systems for 8 if some things get shut down. Do you have room for several car batteries every where you've got a switch? VoIP systems tend to have very messy power requirements.

      Ever look at how much power these phones take? Cisco uses 48V (which means you need an over priced regulator circut to drop it to 3.3v inside the phone) and 3Com use 24V which means they can use a lower cost regulator but the current is higer. You end up with serveral watts of lost in each wire. Real phones don't seem to have either of these problems.

  23. What security??? by Ian+Peon · · Score: 2
    Just can't get past this line:

    "Beyond the monetary risks, there is also a very serious privacy threat as we have become accustomed to government regulation that at least protects our privacy from everyone outside government."

    Protects our privacy?? Oh, you mean like when I use e-mail, IMs or even those less expensive wireless phones?

    I guess that head in sand == privacy.
  24. Some good points, some dumb ones... by cfulmer · · Score: 5, Informative

    Finally, something I know about! This is what I do for a living.

    The fact of the matter is that most of the large emerging packet telephony networks are not being deployed in enterprises, but in the carrier networks -- telephone companies around the world are replacing their old circuit-switched back-haul networks for packet-switched networks, either ATM or IP. These are private networks which are not open to the general public, and so do not have the same risks as, say running VoIP on the internet would. Sure, the telcos still need to watch out for attackers... it's just that you've raised the bar far enough that 'script kiddies' would have a tough time.

    The article also has an over-simplified view of the effort needed to tap an IP phone call. Even if the user were able to mirror any port on the network onto his computer, he still has the extremely hard task of figuring out which port(s) he needs to monitor -- they typically change on a per-call basis, and the user would actually have to mirror two ports (one for each direction of speech) in order to get the entire call. Now, it can be done, but it's difficult. And, it's made even harder because the signalling path (the communication link that handles setting up calls) is usually encrypted, so it becomes impossible to distinguish among calls.

  25. some considerations by jsailor · · Score: 2, Informative


    1. almost all VoIP installations are run on switched networks and phone calls are inherently unicast so only source, destination, and possibly a router can see the traffic. Yes, conference calls can be multicast - but most aren't and switches prune non-multicast group member from the broadcast domain anyway

    2. Almost all VoIP installations place voice traffic on a separate VLAN. This VLAN is ususally well protected through routers and the like. Also it's easy to enhance security for the VLAN with basic switch/LAN security techniques (tying MAC addresses to specific ports, traffic filters, even 802.1x)

    3. Securing the call setup servers, gateways and other devices is relatively easy - any decent VoIP installation would protect these and distribute them so there's no single point of failure.

    4. VoIP can be run of VPN's the main issue is the added latency of the encryption/decryption process.

    5. VoIP over the wide area is no less secure than standard long distance.

  26. Re:Another consideration ... by Slashamatic · · Score: 2
    Given that a modern telephone has a computer and a dsp (even if it is just ISDN), putting encryption in just isn't really a problem. Some people may remember the PGPfone project (also known as Nautilus which could use a standard PC plus a soundcard (CPU plus DSP).

    Remember GSM handsets do encryption/decryption in real-time (not very strong, but it could be better without overloading the CPU).

  27. Theft of service? Huh? Why? by Animats · · Score: 2

    Why would anybody bother to break into a corporate VoIP network to ... make free phone calls over the Internet to their friends? Which they could do directly, for free, now.

  28. Cisco plays down security issues by slashnik · · Score: 2

    Is it really unexpected that Cisco would play down security issues on their training course.

    "No don't worry yourselves on security just BUY MORE"

    Then agian dont worry that standards are still emerging and this stuff will be out of date within two years.

    Don't worry that interoperability with many PABX is only partial.

    Don't worry that you may loose many of the smart features of your current PABX.

    Dont Worry, BUY MORE

  29. VOMIT! ew .... by nobody/incognito · · Score: 2, Interesting

    security in VoIP? don't make me laugh. check out VOMIT (feel lucky at google).

    and don't believe the hype about the supposed safety of switched nets -- VoIP phones are so very compliant, they just love redirects.

    nobody

    --
    parturiunt montes, nascetur ridiculus mus
  30. Re:Encryption and Authorization are not the only w by thogard · · Score: 2

    I've got a 3com nbx phone system at work. I also have cisco switches and routers. I can take a phone call and copy the data anywhere I want to send it all transparently anywhere I want. I know this because I do it all the time in an attempt to figure out their unpublised protocol.

    MAC address lock down can be broken on many switches. The common trick is overfill the MAC tables with fake addresses until it dumps the locked down one.

  31. Re:Encryption and Authorization are not the only w by karlm · · Score: 2
    And that trust can be gotten on the small with simple approaches such as MAC address lockdowns on your switches.

    Most ethernet chipsets will accept new MAC addresses from the ISA/PCI bus. MAC addresses and IP addresses are both trivial to fake. A single box dropped between the switch for the R&D dept and the next highest-up switch will net you all of the phone calls to and from R&D. Cryptographic methods are the only robust ways to get confidentiality and/or authentication. Public key systems (like SSL) are usually easier to set up than symetric key systems (like Kerberos).

    I agree with many people that it's retarded to come up with a new protocol and say "run this on top of a secure layer if you want". The truth is that 99% of the population won't. It's like saying "yeah, there is this exploding gas tank problem, so weld a tank full of fire fighting foam to the back of your Pinto if you want." It's trivial to say in the standard "this must be run on top of SSL/TLS". In this case, SSL setup times are most likely faster than POTS circuit setup times, so the user going from an analog phone to an SSL/TLS IP phone won't notice any dfference.

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    Copyright Violation:"theft, piracy"::Anti-Trust Violation:"thermonuclear price terrorism"<-Overly dramatic language.