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Moving from Corporate IT to Science?
EdinBear asks: "I've been working as a SysAdmin in an increasingly corporate internet services company, which has been hit hard by the fallout from the .com bust. When I started some years ago, I felt I was helping small and interesting companies get benefit from the burgeoning Internet through useful and attractive web services. However, since the Internet became 'normal', the focus has been purely commercial - and instead of helping an enterprise get exposure in an interesting way, it's all about money and finance. I now feel I want to move into Science to use my skills in a productive, 'big picture' kind of way, rather than just helping a client get more rich through financial services. I'm interested to hear if other people have found themselves in a similar position; is the transfer to Science/Research/Academia difficult? Is the grass greener on the other side? The money is less, but is the job satisfaction more?"
One major pitfal to be wary of if you aim to return to Academia is the politics. The life of a new professor is not an easy one, and the climb toward respect is a long one.
Common sense is what tells you the world is flat.
You might also find a more comfortable fit doing building/maintaining infrastructure for a university or college. Gives you a chance to experiment, and worry about something other than financial services for a change. You get a chance to work with the students in most cases, and there is always something interesting going on. I thought about moving toward science, and instead ended up very happy doing the things I love working for a University. It's a wonderful change from the corporate grind.
Those willing to give up freedom for the sake of short term security, deserve neither freedom nor security.
It's hard to become a professor. There are typically hundreds of applicants for every opening. Unless you're really hot stuff, it's not much of a career plan -- only a few notches above "win the lottery," actually. And it takes years to get the degree.
OTOH, There are plenty of places to sysadmin besides ISPs. You might find that supporting intelligent, educated researchers was more gratifying than supported clueless dialup lusers.
Cantankerous old coot since 1957.
What I encountered were a lot of very egocentric political schemers who were far more interested in self promotion than in the advancement of science, or in what we might call 'saving the planet'.
None of the people to whom I was answerable had any knowledge of how to manage IT people and projects (I am not over-generalizing, really). Their demands were unrealistic. My hours were as insane as ever (with no over time). The pressure and deadlines were just as gruelling.
Also, as you mention, the pay sucks in the academy (although, the benefits can be very decent).
Now, I'm back in the private sector doing more interesting work with more interesting people for more money.
Hope this helps, and good luck!
--
Socrates was asked where he was from. He replied not "Athens," but "The world."
And at other times it can be maddening. I went the other way, sort of. I was a University sysadmin, and I now work doing support for Sun. I have to say I like the corporate world MUCH better. I never had any money for training in adademia. I had to teach myself, buy my own books, got to go to one conference in 7 years, etc. I was appreciated, but only extremely rarely in any meaningful way. Had to do everything with nothing, in other words. And while these days things are so fat in the corporate world as they used to be, they're still way better in terms of the resources I have to draw on than they ever were on even the best days at the university.
7 November 2006: The day Americans realized corruption and incompetence weren't addressing 11 September 2001
Because machines are more expensive than research technicans.
Plus some of these techniques are a bit of an art.
-- "Sucks to your ass-mar"
Well, I've been a sysadmin on both the academia side and administrative side of a university.
:)
First, I'm not sure where you were at, but both Universities I have worked for offered great beneifits (paid medial, dental, drug Rx, life, tuition reimbursment, good vacation time, retirement plan), and these were public universities. The pay is about 20% lower than the corporate world, but the benifits made up for half of that. Job security was great....there is no chance for layoffs.
An the academic side, we were well funded. We had plenty of equipment to play with. However, dealing with faculty is a lot different than dealing with staff. Faculty want to do everything their way, and for the most part, you have to listen. This meant you had very little control over the desktop and had to accomodate a lot of different configurations on the server end (Win9x/NT/200/XP, Linux, Sun, Macs). Of course, our department did have a lot of research $$$ coming in....others did not, so I guess it's the luck of the draw.
On the administrative side, we didn't have as much money for equipment. We were mostly self-funded becuase we offered paid services to the university (stores, printing, etc), so occasionally we could get a chunk of coin to spend. Administrative deparments that are funded by the university's general fund probably have much less money for IT. Anyway, the administrative side of the university was much more corporate like, but still laid back and informal.
You're not going to get rich working for a university or the government, but it certainly has a lot to offer during these down times.
ÕÕ
It's like math. Getting a degree in math might help you to solve some problems, but you need knowledge of the problems you are trying to solve. If you learn only math, it won't be much use to anyone else (except as a math teacher). I think as time goes on we will find computer science is more of a tool to help solve problems rather than a solution in itself.
I have a degree in computer science. Right now I am working for a biochemistry research facility at WAZZU. Not knowing anything about biochemistry hinders my potential somewhat. Likewise, my supervisor not knowing anything about computer science hinders things as well.
Having said that I would like to point out that my experience working in non-profit is far more enjoyable than the corporate world. If you enjoy learning, as I do, I would recommend finding something in research. That's probably what your degree is for anyway.
A big plus is that I get to take classes for free. In two weeks I will be taking my first biochemistry class.
Wow, no kidding. I just bailed from my status of PhD student in a bio lab. In all my 6 years of working as a tech or grad peon, I have watched water drip through a tube 14 - 18 hours a day while enjoying the brisk 4 degree weather in the coldroom (protein purification), made miles of little spots on nitrocellulose (DNA hybridization), and added slightly different amounts of colorless liquid to other colorless liquid in truckloads of 96 well plates (cytotoxicity assays). It fucking sucked. You get to use your brain for 15 minutes, write it down for 15 minutes, and carry it out for approximately 10,000 hours. After it fails or your results aren't quite like they should be, you get to skip the writing and thinking and go straight to the repetition. Heck, even if it works perfectly, you need confirmation that its reproducable don't you? Don't worry, it'll screw up next time.
I just talked to a much older friend, a professor of biology, who cut though my euphamisms with a flat "bio benchwork is boring as hell". Where the heck were you guys when I talked myself into doing this? =)
Well, I'm off to give chemistry or engineering a stab. At least my projects won't mutate slowly or die because someone sneezed in their culture dish before putting it in the incubator beside mine.
Entropy gets everyone.
Note: for most academic positions in the sciences, you will be expected to go through at least one postdoctoral appointment (i.e. like grad school, but more pressure to create your own results in a very short time, somewhat better pay) before you are considered for tenure-track positions in academia.
Especially in the biological sciences, postdocs have become cheap labor, and multiple postdoc appointments are not rare. In physics (my field), multiple postdocs are a kiss of death: they mean you weren't good enough in your first postdoc to get some permanent or tenure track appointment, but in biology, what I hear is that there is a need for skilled laboratory ability (read: glorified technicians) and supervisors for large groups.
Even after a postdoc appointment, you'll aim for a tenure-track position, meaning you will have to work even harder for five to seven years, creating a research group from scratch, having to generate funding, while teaching the classes the senior profs don't feel like teaching. Then, if you've demonstrated an ability to bring research funding into the department, you might get tenure. Or, if you are turned down for tenure at a major research university, you might get offered tenure at a lower-ranked or four-year institution.
The tenure track is extremely stressful. Marriages are often destroyed in the process.
If you really want to be an academic in the sciences, it requires a great deal of sacrifice. Sure, there are theoretically other rewards. But it isn't easy to really find scientific problems that are simultaneously tractable, truly useful, haven't been done already, and can get funding. In theory, you can research whatever you want. In practice, if you can't get someone (government) to fund you, you aren't going to get very far.
Perhaps I'm biased because my Ph.D. thesis advisor went into the private sector (and is much happier there).
I recommend you read the book "A Ph.D. is not Enough!" for some insight into what is really required for success in academia.
But the reality of university academic life is nothing like that, unless you're either exceptionally lucky or brilliant, (and I mean the sort of brilliant that universities will bend over backwards just to have you join their ranks, that is, seriously world-class level).
No, the reality for most academics is one of
politics,
jealousy,
slim budgets,
disaffected students who don't really give a stuff about what you're trying to lecture to them; they just want to graduate with a degree so they can get the sort of job you hate; you'll be training the students to do something you don't agree with,
universities, who, just like most profit-driven organisations, don't give two hoots about "the big picture" and just want to make bucks by pushing as many students through the production line as they can,
loads of unpaid overtime, marking essays, exams, etc
and somewhere between all this, trying to find time to do your own research.
So it's really just like any other job, not cushy at all like many people think.
Ask yourself this: do you really care about "the big picture", or are you just trying to escape a workstyle you don't like? If it's the second reason, then you won't find much sanctuary in academic life. Sorry if this is not what you wanted to hear, but it's pretty much the truth.
I made $20,000 per year or less for the first 32 years of my life. Last year, I got my PhD & now feel rich making over 40k/year as an astronomy postdoc, and yes I love my job. Most real working people are blown away when I tell them what I do for a living. They don't think its possible. Then they a sad look like "gee I wish I enjoyed my job that much." Luckilly I don't have any expensive habits like cars & TV.
The Academic environment provides a lot more freedom...just look at what D. Toresky has been able to do...(any Verizon employees want to try that on company time?). But yes there are ruts... if you aren't really excited about the kind of science you are doing, might as well to back to the corporate world.
WHO you work with is just as important as what you are doing. In most fields of science (especially the not-even-remotely-profitable ones like mine) you are expected to work hard, but if the results do not turn out as expected, or hoped, well that's part of the discovery process. This contrasts with the business world, where if expectations are not met, it is mandadory to find someone to blame.
PhD was required for my job, as with many, but there are some "loopholes" out there: for example part IT/admin and part research jobs which can evolve more in the research direction. These aren't easy to find, but you skip the 5 years+ of grad school...
Pretty Please?
Eclectic beats from Leeds, UK
handmadehands.co.uk
Next time major in political science. [...]
You get paid for doing work, stop being lazy, and learn to be more political.
I *did* major in political science, and I tried to be as political as possible, but in an administrative department even the justifications we had for better equipment and software weren't popular enough, I guess.
What do you expect at a college campus?
Well, 15 years ago I guess I *could* have expected a previous epoch of computing; mainframes, punch cards, expensive metered access. Maybe we got a break as an administrative department, who knows. I do know that the campus networking people were pretty responsive to us, but that could have been because we just wanted stuff fixed, and didn't want to have a symposium about it.
Once again its a college campus!
I know, but lots of campuses are in bad environments -- too much concrete, too urban, etc. The building I worked in was in an old building on the old part of campus, which had lots of green spaces. It's a lot nicer than the concrete jungle I work in now.
Typical player arent you? Getting laid alot is nothing to brag about unless its with the same woman.
Except I'm not a typical player and its not bragging; I think it illustrates a different mentality/lifestyle/population at Universities. More liberal? More fun? Who knows. The people in the corporate world are, in my experience, far more image/status/suburban-style-success oriented and I work now in about the most liberal type of corporate environment. I'd attribute 25% of the difference to subtle age difference (skews slightly older now), but I do think the University attracted less conventional people.
Wanting to improve the "big picture" for many people, rather than just earn bucks for your employer, is an admirable goal. But you might be dissatisfied with a job in science/academia because very often the objectives are arcane and specialized and do not have any obvious "big picture" payoff.
Think about what you could do to help a government agency, charity, church, organization achieve their goals via IT. There's a lot of unexploited opportunities for computers and the web in these realms. Many of these organizations are technologically backwards, which means two things:
- There are many opportunities to do obvious things. You may end up viewed as a technological savior just for coming in with
relatively basic skills and knowing how to
apply them.
- But there will be some (or much) organizational inertia
against taking advantage of these opportunities.
This can lead to frustration.
Good luck!After earning a PhD in psychology in 1998 [perception & psychophysics research] I started working for the military in a post-doc position.....well, good old Bubba Clinton decided we didn't need military research anymore and closed tha base I was working on........since I did all my research on M$ and *NIX machines, I was able to land a quick job in the IT field without having a degree in it! {ahhh the good old days). I figured that I could do it for a couple of months until I could get back into academia.
Well.....here is is 4 years later and I am just getting back into academia! The past 4 years were HOT! Huge contracts with HUGE rates and frills meant easy student loan payoffs, houses, cars, etc. Then the other shoe dropped.......everyone was getting cut, contracts dried up, pay scales slid like so much California property into the ocean.......I was actually out of work for 3 months! LUCKILY....I grabbed and stashed all the dough I could when I was making it and managed never to buy any stock or take any options ["These days if you own anything but land, you own a popcorn fart!" Rodney Dangerfield, Caddyshack]......so I sold some stuff off and started looking. Here is what I found:
Infrastructure support seems to have gone the way of the dodo.....there is no need to double staff when you have competent programmers who can also provide support [if they want a job, they will!]. Contracting agencies are more like pimps then anything these days and we lowly contractors are their techno whores....they know we are stuck and they take advantage of us to the hilt.....
Once this realization hit...I started looking HARD at academia.....obviously the degree helped, but I was lucky enough to land a position at a VERY small libral arts college teaching stats software [SPSS] to undergraduate psychology students and support the psych dept M$ and MAC boxes........the position isn't faculty nor is it tenure-tract and the pay is A LOT lower then the contracting gigs but, it is PERMANENT and the benefits are HUGE. I work 9-4 [I am the work-a-holic of the department] and enjoy every July off.
I don't think we will ever see another BOOM in IT again: the golden age is over, a 12 year old can become a MCSE now and he market is flooded with "certified" people willing to work for 1/2 of what you are.....so I am staying here for the rest of my life.
If you can get into it.....I highly reccomend it. Try to stay out of administration, too many politics and too much stress......work with students, it is very rewarding and a lot more fun.
~insert tech sarcasm here~