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RIAA Sues Backbone ISPs to Censor Website
prostoalex writes "Music labels filed a lawsuit against major Internet service providers for not blocking access to Listen4Ever.com, music site located in China. The defendants in the suit include AT&T Broadband, Cable & Wireless USA, Sprint Corp., Advanced Network Services and UUNET Technologies." Wow.
If this suit passes in the favor of the RIAA, then you can kiss your fair use rights good-bye.
I think I will end this before I start stringing together several run-on sentences comprised solely of Carlin's Seven Words you Don't Say...
Music industry indeed. Why not call it like it is and start calling them the Music Mafia? Oops. That's insulting the mafia...I shouldn't do that.
LoL...first of all china wants to censor things coming in from other countries...
The chinese government does, that is...
American companies want to censor the content coming in.
Who really runs our country?
*Quickly bookmarks and downloads everything not on newsgroups.* Seriously though, this is the direction that things are going, and the RIAA is just trying in a futile attempt to stop it. There isn't ever going to be a way to police anything on the internet: it's to large and too spread out. Eventually the RIAA is going to have to realize that album sales aren't going to be bringing in the big bucks anymore, and instead there are going to have to focus on promoting concerts, t-shirts, and other things that can't be ripped from the web.
Since when did .com become a US only domain?
Hey, at least now some of the defendants have equally deep pockets. We're talking AT&T here, not some little indie ISP. Seems to me that the RIAA might have been better off not pissing off some of these companies who can field as good or better a legal team and who can throw as much money at Congress.
I've lost count of the number of sites and services that have been shut down. Music "piracy" continues unfettered, gaining popularity as broadband spreads...
The thing is that the DMCA provides safe harbor provisions for an ISP if they remove an offending website. The offender can then get the content returned if they affirm that they are not violating copyright.
Of course the safe harbor provisions were intended for the ISP at the end of the line. So I'm not sure what legal precedent would be in play here. Given that these carriers are common carriers, with no control over the content they carry, I should think the RIAA would lose the case. If they didn't, then it would become the responsibility of carriers to monitor traffic on their networks for illegal activity, etc. It would be akin to holding AT&T responsible for embezzling because two mafiosos talked to eachother over a long distance phone call.
This sig has been temporarily disconnected or is no longer in service
Perhaps one of the potential outcomes of globalization is that we all sink to the lowest common denominator. America blocking access to foreign sites? That's so... Chinaesque!
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It seems there are at least four or five stories about the RIAA every week on Slashdot. Most deal with circumventing their legal lobbying, technical approaches for dealing with proposed DRM techniques, and whatnot.
Meanwhile, it seems the RIAA sinks to a new depth every week. With this latest story, I think it's time the tech community started asking a different question. What can the tech community do to damage the RIAA or render them irrelevant? And what are the best legal methods for kicking the RIAA where it hurts?
I'm generally "Interesting," "Insightful," and even "Funny" here. What the hell happens to me at parties?
The article says that the plantiff's claim that Listen4Ever.com is registered under a "U.S. domain name". What the heck is that all about? So websites in any other country must use their nation's domain, but only "U.S." websites can use a .com ? The RIAA truly astounds me with what they'll say/pull.....
Those RIAA nimwits may be meeting their match here. Not only do they have deep pockets, but think of it this way - when the folks in Washington see this battle, they may rethink what's more important: keeping the Information Superhighway (tm) alive and propelling the New Economy, or keeping the music industry alive in its current bloodsucking incarnation.
T-Rex, meet Godzilla. :-)
Read the EFF's Fair Use FAQ
Well, thats what you get for voting in bush, who's entire campaign is built on large amounts of 'contributions' (should read 'bribes') from many corporations. Everyone who voted him in should be blamed for this lose of freedom at the hands of large corporate entities. I have noticed that ever since bush was president, and especially after 9/11, corporations have been attacking free speach left and right.
Oh wait, I'm sorry, Bush is a *hero*, who's actions are helping us all. Lets just wave our flags while corporations wipe their collective asses on us.
The RIAA is out of control, we must do something about this before we end up losing all our freedom of speach. I think it might take drastic measures to fight this corporate monster.
GoatPigSheep, the 3 most important food groups
The RIAA is nothing more than a bunch of corporate whore fucks who like to wallow in their own shit, making you pay a higher price than originally realized.
The news media says "The suit states... the site... appears to target an American audience" If that's so, why does the top of the site itself say "Add listen4ever.com to your Favourites"?
Well, as of late, the RIAA has been pushing the theory of "contributory copyright infringement". In essence, it goes like this: You didn't infringe any copyrights. But you helped someone else infringe them. So you're just as guilty. As the
The Mongrel Dogs Who Teach
You may think that the RIAA is good at influencing the legal and political process, but I think they've just picked a fight they can't hope to win. The big backbone providers got to where they are through skillful manipulation of the system. If any set of entities is capable of playing the litigation game, it has got to be the phone and cable companies.
First off, every other case the RIAA has attempted has been against shallow pockets. Not so here. While WorldCom is in trouble, they do have a large legal team sitting around doing nothing (can't work on the bankruptcy 'cause that's not their area). I don't think I need mention how deep the pockets of ATT, Sprint, et. al. are.
Also, in the past they've gone against entities without experience. At any one time any major phone company is involved in more litagation than you can imagine (minimum of 3 major legal actions per state--justifying their current rates, attacking the justification their competitors give for their rates, and fighting to keep their preferred status as incumbant carrier, besides various federal and local actions). They know how to take full advantage of the rules, which rules they have to follow, which they can bend, and which they can break. They'll make dragging any information out of them during discovery a total nightmare, while at the same time demanding the most minor scraps of records the RIAA has. They'll abuse the calander, run the clock, and overall be just not very nice.
The RIAA may act like an 800 lb. gorrilla, but they've just picked a fight with the 8000 lb. bunch. Not a good idea.
I wonder how much Listen4Ever's traffic will go up as a result of this lawsuit? And how many more millions of dollars of "lost revenues" will the RIAA be able to claim as a result?
ok, that's probably the argument they're gonna be using. another poster indicated this is like sueing the state highway administration for an accident, or the electric company because of an electrical fire. (others exist, like gas canister makers for arson)
given the size of the companies named as defendants, they're lawyers will argue first amendment and/or make use of scenarios like those previously mentioned.
The One Rule Of Chess You'll Ever Need: Don't play someone who carries a kit in their bookbag.
Dear Sir
The issue at hand has absolutely nothing to do with fair rights usage.
It is not your fair usage right to violate copyright holders by downloading all of the warez and mp3s that you so desire. If you want that, stick with cable TV. This is the Internet, an information sharing network -- if the information is not your's to publish, then don't.
The issue at hand is the question of if the communication network which provides access by Americans to a Chinese based system which violates United States law.
For people who violate copyright law by publishing duplicate copies of commercial software and copyrighted music and movies, I have no sympathy. Shut this server down.
The Chinese website in question is clearly violating United States law. It may also be violating Chinese law, but to this I am not knowing.
This action seems very similar to the legal pursuits of the French government against eBay and Yahoo for posting content which is illegal in their country, but not in the U.S. Specifically, they were after WWII memorabilia, and anything deemed to be offensive by the French government.
Are ISPs which provide transit access to illegal material themselves responsible for the illegal material itself, even though it is under a different administrative domain outside of their control, and outside of the control of the U.S. government?
I do not think so. This is like holding the phone companies responsible for someone who did something illegal using their network. The ISPs in question do not condone or approve of the server in question which is violating U.S. law.
I hope you do not condone it either. There are enough mp3 downloading fools on this network already. I use the Internet to publish a daily journal, to share pictures that I take with my digital camera, and to communicate ORIGINAL WORKS by myself to others, and to obtain their own original works.
Fair rights ain't got nothing to do with it.
If it wern't for them trying to have that site blocked, I would have never found out about it :)
(Score:0, Interesting)
The RIAA is screwing themselves. I never heard of this site, but now I have. I bet this site is going to have to get a bigger server, maybe a US10000. A lot of my friends didn't use Napster, until they saw Lars Ulrich (Metallica) on prime time TV denouncing it.
I want my rights back. I was actually using them when our government stole them after 9/11.
I dont understand how the RIAA could make a case. How is the ISP violating copyright? The ISP is a non-descriminant transport vehicle. They shouldn't have to know what's in the packets and then police them. The RIAA shouldn't get special powers to get sites blocked for such a silly offense.
This is a serious problem with the digital world. The more digital things become, the more individual things can be blocked. Imagine if the power-grid was digital. Your computer would need a form of address to get the appropriate amount of power for your device. Then imagine the power company could specifically disallow power to that device. In a case like that, I could see the RIAA suing an electric company to not provide power to computers that go to an offending site. It's ridiculous that the RIAA could win, but if a case like this one goes the right way, it could establish a bizarre precedant.
I guess what I'm saying is: Just because somebody has the power to block this type of thing, doesn't mean they are obligated to. The RIAA has laws in their favor to go after somebody who does something like Listen4Ever has. The ISP's shouldn't have to pay because the RIAA isn't willing to do the necessary investigation to find out how to shut that server down. They're not the ones committing the crime, they are not even aiding them in copyright infractions. If the ISP's aren't treating them any differently than they are treating anybody else, I don't see how they can be held accountable if somebody breaks the law.
No organization should have that kind of power.
"Derp de derp."
No, the analogy is completely off. MP3s are far from illegal. Copying copyrighted material is illegal. MP3s are a good format for doing so, but no one is saying that MP3 trading or sales should be illegal. Just MP3s that reproduce copyrighted material.
It's really a shame that so many people here are sheep[burn karma here] that can't think for themselves.
Thank you, dear RIAA, for informing me of that site which I had no idea even existed.
Now, I think I'll go and download some Christina Aguilera music. I don't particularly like her (more of a B. Spears person), but since its free, I'll take it.
Seriously, ISPs have no business blocking web sites, or otherwise censoring the net. They are there to connect people to the internet, not to block them off from parts of it that special interests think we shouldn't see.
social sciences can never use experience to verify their statemen
This is wonderful! With this precidence set, I'll be able to sue the state for the highway I was on if I have an accident, and the power company for supplying the electricity that started a house fire.
Believe it or not, you can sue the city for negligence (e.g. if your car gets a flat tire from a pothole) or the power company for negligence (e.g. if a power line breaks and sets your house on fire).
You can hold a business accountable for negligence, even if you are not their customer. Banks can have their assets seized if they don't take steps to prevent money laundering. On a smaller scale, pawnbrokers are held responsible for selling stolen goods.
Generally, when an industry creates a technology that facilitates an illegal or dangerous act, that industry is held responsible for part of the cost of monitoring and preventing that action.
-a
How to rationalize theft.
This is the legal equivalent of suing the contractor who maintains your local streets, because some people used said streets as a getaway route after a bank robbery -- a robbery that happened over the border *in another country*.
~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
Look at it this way - if a backbone provider begins to block traffic based on content, then:
1. - they may put their common carrier status at risk; and,
2. - other illegal content should be blocked as well.
So, if you live in a state where spam is illegal, a natural extension would be for the backbone carriers to block spam sites (of course, the problem with open relays means all of the far east may be blocked, but hey, spam is spam.) Of course, when jurisdictions start forcing the blockage of legitimate (read RIAA member) music sites because of language or other content, cutting them off from their customers, the RIAA may wish they never went down this road.
Not that I really think forcing the pipe owners to block content is a good idea, but the law, like landminds, can harm friend and foe alike. It's all in how a weapon is used.
I'm a consultant - I convert gibberish into cash-flow.
Isn't the next logical step for the RIAA to sue U.S. airlines for continuing to provide service to countries known to harbor merchants of pirated music? ;)
I mean it's the airlines' responsibility to ensure that music pirates aren't using their routes to facilitate their misdeeds.
It's a good thing the RIAA hasn't heard of those Canadian pirates, coz then we'd have to shut down the highways, too.
Notably missing are two leading ISPs owned by one of the plaintiffs: AOL and CompuServe. I'd be interested to know if those ISPs are blocking this site.
Well, at least they're suing, not blacklisting. My big fear has always been that freedom-loving ISPs would be made to restrict user access, or lose their backbone connections. And AOL/TW is a big backbone provider.
If the site being blocked were a child pornography site, would you the general slashdotter have the same reactions? I FUCKING HOPE SO.
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WHO ATE MY BREAKFAST PANTS?
I'm a noc worker and in ever edge device i work with I've blocked the RIAA and the MPAA from accessing any transit across my network. Infact if they attempt to hack or DoS any subscribers on my network I will be forced to blackhole them and report them to their upstream provider as to cease the threat they cause to my network and users.
Hehe. I can imagine the executives meeting.
/once/ turned a profit and now suck?
"What do you guys control?"
"I control cell phones."
"I am the master of cable."
"I am the undisputed champion of the US Internet backbone."
"So... what do you control for world domination?"
"Ummm.... CD music. Not anything good though, just the really commercialized stuff."
*crowd contains guffaws and laughter starts leaking out*
"But I actualy turn a profit."
*crowd lets out collctive awe of amazement*
Did the RIAA actualy sue any profit generating companies here, or did they limit themselves to companies that
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If the RIAA wins you will be...that is so sad that this case wouldn't be thrown out immediately.
Any lawyers know, Can we counter SUE with the telcos, for trying to censor the Inet access I pay for? Get a couple million people to sign up. Hell, lets find some small town, where the Judge is a card carrying EFF member. :)
If its all legal battles, why cant we fight back? Why are we so powerless? Why cant we win?
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I regret to say that we of the F.B.I. are powerless to act in cases of oral-genital intimacy, unless it has in some way obstructed interstate commerce. - J. Edgar Hoover
Same problem in Washington on ATT Cable. I don't think ATT caved (yet). It's more likely the site ran out bandwidth after the horde hit it just now...
Look,
We don't like this. So let's put our money where our mouths are. Stop buying from them, and stop buying from their sponsors. Stop listening to the radio stations that broadcast their crap, and encourage others to do the same. This kind of shit has to stop.
Yes, what I'm saying is boycott the music industry.
I don't listen to the radio anymore (pop music sucks anyway). I go and watch local bands in bars, and buy their CDs from them. It's good stuff too. You can always find someone in your area doing good stuff.
Also, there are tons of independent record labels. They also have good music. Buy from them.
Anyway,
That's my two cents.
Later.
-Craig
I'm on msn, i cant get to the site...it gives me a 403 forbidden message.
Have isp's already blocked it...are they deciding for me what sites I can or cannot see?
It isn't about piracy or whether or not I am downloading music. I can't see the website period,and if following a link in a website or through an isp is illegal then why did yahoo news link to the site through thier newstory yesterday?