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Slashback: Pop-Ups, Books, Qmail

Slashback tonight is loaded with updates and addenda to previous stories on Bayesian spam-prevention, pop-up ad blocking, and celebratory picnics as well as an inquiry into the other side of visionary literature. Read on below for the details.

What's your idea of feel-good literature? A few weeks ago, an Ask Slashdot question was posed about the greatest dystopic novels, and quite a few people weighed in with their choices for visions of the post-nuclear, post-germ-warfare, post-natural disaster or otherwise blighted future.

Now reader itwerx wants the other side: "That "Dystopic novels?" Ask Slashdot was so darn depressing we need a counter balance! Let's hear what novels of utopia may not be widely known."

It's certainly widely known, but I'll start the bidding with Atlas Shrugged.

The best revenge is living well, and gluing spammers end-to-end. RealDhar writes "Hey, just thought I'd let folks know that, inspired by the recent article about Paul Graham's Bayesian spam filter work, I went and wrote one for qmail. Please check it out!"

What took so long? Pop-up ads are no fun. iVillage cut them out, AOL swears they're cutting back, and even Netscape 7 can be wrangled to block them. An anonymous reader writes "From the Associated Press (via Salon): EarthLink Inc. said Monday it plans to offer its subscribers software to block Internet pop-up advertisements as part of a wider campaign to set itself apart from competitors. The full story is here.."

Penguins and picnics go well together. ArtEnvironment writes "Besides today's 2nd California Linux Anniversary Picnic previously mentioned, there will also be PLUS, the Philadelphia Linux/Unix Symposium which is the 2nd annual East-Coast Linux anniversary picnic and more, including a bar night kicking off Friday the 23rd, a free computer/electronics swap meet and giveaway on Saturday the 24th, and of course the picnic on Sunday the 25th. Also included is one of the well-known PLUG GPG Keysigning parties. PLUS will be an annual grass-roots event, but it 'won't be big and professional like' ALS or LWCE. ;)"

I look forward to the final, triumphant mention of this :) Qbertino writes "The Blender Fund, established a month ago in order to buy the IP of the 3D Pakage Blender and, at last, GPL it, has accumulated 90K Euro (90K$) of the required 100K in less than 4 weeks. As it indicates on the Website, Ton Roosendahl, father of Blender, is preparing to release the sources which should happen within the next week or so. Time for a Blender icon on /."

34 of 334 comments (clear)

  1. Utopian novels by rknop · · Score: 3, Informative

    Version of what I call the "James P. Hogan Utopia" show up in a number of his novels. Among them are: Paths to Otherwhere, The Multiplex Man, Return to Tomorrow.

    -Rob

    1. Re:Utopian novels by 1010011010 · · Score: 4, Informative


      "The Number of the Beast," by Robert A. Heinlein

      (heh... dirty old man!)

      --
      Napster-to-go says "Fill and refill your compatible MP3 player", which is a lie. It's not MP3. It's WMA with DRM.
    2. Re:Utopian novels by xanadu-xtroot.com · · Score: 3, Funny

      "The Number of the Beast," by Robert A. Heinlein

      Yea, it's got a great a great soundtrack too.

      --
      I'm not a prophet or a stone-age man,
      I'm just a mortal with potential of a super man.
    3. Re:Utopian novels by rodgerd · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Any number of things by Heinlein. "Moon is a Harsh Mistress", "Stranger in a Strange Land", you name it.

      I'm surprised when one of his novels ends less than well.

    4. Re:Utopian Novels by eric6 · · Score: 3, Funny
      apocoplypse is where we are going, regardless of your opinion. I'd rather not read more and more lies about how "great" humanity could do it if worked together

      My, aren't you a peach. How silly of us to think that we could grow as humanity. I mean, modern life isn't any better, really, than Europe during the inquisition. Why should we even keep living.

      --

      --
      fight global cooling

  2. Define Utopia by mmarlett · · Score: 4, Funny

    I vote for "Infinite Jest" by David Foster Wallace -- but that's because I think giant hurds of free-roaming hamsters would rule. --MM

  3. Popup Story by hburch · · Score: 3, Funny

    A story about ISPs blocking pop-ups that has a pop-ups? Is Salon.com charging Earthlink for the additional enticement?

    1. Re:Popup Story by billstr78 · · Score: 3

      Tell me about it. I have noticed major news sites like cnn.com and abcnews.com adding pop-up adds to initial page loads in the last 2-3 months. With this recent adoption of the medium by major sites, I don't see the use of this annoying method of advertising slowing down anytime soon.

      The only thing we can do is advocate the usage of pop-up blockers and send a message to these advertisers that the public refuses to be annoyed. Now all we need is a pop-up blocker that sends an email to the webmaster of the site everytime a pop-up is blocked ;)

  4. Atlas Shrugged Utopia by ljhiller · · Score: 5, Funny

    Really, is Atlas Shrugged suggested as a utopia or dystopia? What a nightmare, a world full of objectivists.

    1. Re:Atlas Shrugged Utopia by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I was about to post an Ayn rant (anti) and lost hope during the middle of it.

      Let it just be said that this Romantic tried to call her poor justifications objectivity for a good reason... to hide the lack of any internal coherency. At least half the people that "like" her simply don't understand her and buy the surface level rhetoric of libertarean objectivity. She hated Libertarians, She was not Objective ("objectivity" for her refers to the cold hard outlook, the ability to step over a homeless person, not in the scientific sense of subjecting one's hypothesis to doubt and test). Nietzsche is a much better way to spend your youthful rebellion against the herd. Rand is a waste of time. You can still step over homeless people without having to deify yourself to justify it. Hell, you can even help them if you like. (Not for rand, her not-for-profit organization doesn't believe in charity, volunteerism or, for that matter, not-for-profit endeavor!) There is no more humourously self-refuting organization or philosophy on earth, I believe.

      She simply was justifying why men that rise to the top of the capitalist world, like Ken Lay, are a better sort of people, period.

      Rand is actually quite dangerous, I think. She represents an anti-rationalism which is always a key ingredient in fascism.

      Dang, I did the rant.

  5. Blender and Free fonts by PeterClark · · Score: 5, Interesting

    To merge the topic of Blender with that of another recent subject, has anyone started a fund for creating Free fonts to eliminate Free software's dependence upon Microsoft's fonts? From the discussion that has already occured, it seems as though the only sane and reasonable way to get high-quality, consistant fonts is to scrap some money together and pay a professional to do so.

    People, if a _rendering_ program, that is probably used by a relatively small amount of people, can reach 90% of its goal in four weeks, what can we do about raising funds for fonts, which everyone has an interest in? What we need now is for someone or some organization well-respected within the community to speak up and say, "The pot is open! Come chip in!"
    :Peter

  6. Feel good? Or Utopian? There's a difference. by StandardDeviant · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Becuase frankly, utopias are fucking boring. Novels that tell a story of triumph against all odds, winning out against the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune... those are the stories that speak to the real human condition of fighting adversity. As evidence, consider Dante's writing series. Paradiso is pages and pages of crap about how wonderful heaven is. Boooooring. Inferno is much more interesting reading. (I guess you could say that Inferno is a contra-example to my thesis since the focus of the story is really more on the suffering of the damned than the travel of the main character, but otoh the narrator does travel through the bowels of hell, no doubt a frightening journey, only to return unharmed.)

    So in the field of uplifting stories, stories that, like Shawshank Redemption, are of people crawling through a river of shit to come out clean on the other side, I'll toss in Bryce Courtenay's The Power of One . I read it when I was 14, and honestly I think it's had more of a lasting impact on me than any other written work, Bible included. When the times get tough (and I've had my share of tough times in the decade since then), I think it's that books message of self-reliance and determination that carried me through. (Or at least, like a boxer, I would have gone down swinging if I had...)

  7. georouting as a procmail antispam rule.. by Greg@RageNet · · Score: 5, Informative

    I have two procmail rules which work wonders in stopping spam. the first one is a fairly uninventive but nevertheless effective check of a really great RBL. The second is a bit more inventive. By pulling the 'Recieved' headers from the message and comparing the countries the mail was routed through using 'GeoIP' you can make some assumptions about the route. For example. if the sending machine is in the US, relays the mail through Korea, then the mail comes back to the US such an inefficent route can be safely assumed as intended to take advantage of an open SMTP relay... Enjoy!

    procmailrc.antispam.txt

    -- Greg

    --
    Slashdot, would a spell-checker for posting be too much to ask? It's not rocket science!
  8. Ayn Rand was a wack-nut-fruit case by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Atlas Shrugged: one of the worst works of literature to ever be popularized. Almost as good as L. Ron Hubbard's Dianetics. The difference? The religion Rand started she decided to call a "philosophy", even though it's really more of an ideology.

    Seriousuly, her utopia is not only deeply flawed, but her writing sucks. I mean, come on, did anyone really buy into those 20-minute long monologues that folks like D'Anconia have at dinner parties while everyone stands in silence and listens to his tedious diatribes?

    The Fountainhead was much better (Rand was able to resist her temptation to "tell" not "show" a bit better), but even that work was deeply flawed, both from a literary perspective and from a philosophical one. Still inspiring in many ways, but seriously flawed.

    She was rejected by 40 publishers for a reason.

    I have no problem subscribing to the "less government" view of the world, but Objectivism is strictly out.

  9. Re:God, now we know why Timothy is so stupid by aardvarkjoe · · Score: 5, Funny

    You've got your cause and effect mixed up there, I'm afraid.

    --

    How can we continue to believe in a just universe and freedom to eat crackers if we have no ale?
  10. On a related note... by quinto2000 · · Score: 4, Interesting
    This idea of using Bayesian filters on Spam reminds me of an idea that I've tossed back and forth a couple of times with other slashdotters. I'm getting into neural nets, and I think it would be really interesting to do this kind of analysis on one of the largest data set around, the Slashdot comments. It would be a perfect database for training, because user moderations are attached to most comments. Specifically, I think it would be really cool to train a neural network to recognize trolls. Has anyone else ever thought about this? I would even be able to get academic credit for the research, but CmdrTaco didn't like the idea when I suggested it to him.

    Just like the argument for bayesian analysis of SPAM, reason-based analyis of trolls is fundamentally flawed, as can be seen by the broken "lameness" filters. A neural network/bayesian approach would probably work much better at finding the features trolls have in common. Slashdot could mark likely trolls automatically after they are analyzed by the system, and users could filter "likely troll" in their user preferences page. But mostly, this would be a cool project to do, and I wish CmdrTaco would be more willing to allow direct database access for academic projects. Screen-scraping is not an attractive prospect.

    --
    Ceci n'est pas un post
    1. Re:On a related note... by yog · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Well, you're proposing to do something really hard, i.e. to somehow
      recognize trolls among legitimate messages, which sounds nearly
      impossible, and yet you balk at doing something extremely easy,
      i.e. cutting and pasting messages into an editor for a few days or
      weeks. You'd be doing the world a huge service if you could solve the
      troll/spam problem; go for it. Don't let lack of direct access to a
      database slow you down.

      --
      it's = "it is"; its = possessive. E.g., it's flapping its wings.
  11. Bayes Rule spam implemention *and* seeding by leto · · Score: 4, Informative
    Eric Raymond has written Bogofilter that implements Paul Graham's idea. I've created a Badwords list for use with bogofilter seeded with my entire spam collection of four years.

    Leto

  12. Re:Panicware Pop-Up Stopper by Verizon+Guy · · Score: 4, Informative

    I use Bayden PopupPopper. I've tried them all, and found this one to be the least resource intensive. When a site attempts a pop-up, you get a small transparent window that asks you if you want to add this domain to your friends list, blacklist it, or to allow/deny just that popup. It also has a cool feature that will block all popups if you turn on Scroll Lock (Finally a good use for the key, since like Lotus 1-2-3 for DOS, circa 1980s!) Oh yeah, free as in beer.

    --

    Aw, fuck it. Let's go bowling. - The Big Lebowski

  13. Utopia vs. Dystopia by Kafir · · Score: 3, Informative

    Unfortunately utopian novels tend not to make very good novels.
    Compare Aldous Huxley's dystopian Brave New World to his later utopia, Island. Moral ambiguity is replaced by self-righteousness, the bitter irony of the "savage" who represents an alternative world-vision in BNW is replaced by the one-sided Theosophists who form the opposition in Island. And the soul-killing drug, "soma," is replaced by the enlightening "moksha medicine," without any very convincing explanation of what makes one drug better than another.

    Or compare H.G. Wells's classic early works, starting with the speculative dystopia of The Time Machine, with his preachy late utopia, The Shape of Things to Come.

    Or read some of the classic socialist utopias of the late nineteenth century, Morris's News From Nowhere or Bellamy's Looking Backward. No plot, no conflict, just the slow exposition of the author's vision for a new world, along with castigation of the stupidity or greed of those among the author's contemporaries who did not share his vision.

    Books about the process of creating utopia tend to be somewhat better; I enjoyed Wells's In the Days of the Comet, and Heinlein's The Moon is a Harsh Mistress is something of a classic, describing the fight to create a libertarian society on the moon. But that class of books allows for direction and struggle in a way that pure utopian novels do not.

  14. About anti-aliased fonts, and Joel by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful
    Joel doesn't qualify enough of his argument to be taken seriously.

    Firstly, all his arguments are against today's common resolutions. When viewed at a half-metre away a 6000x6000 resolution screen would be as detailed as most people can perceive, so there you start to see the limits of his complaint. Now we don't have those types of screens yet, and that should be his complaint. Anti-aliasing itself is perfectly valid, it's the combination of low-resolution and static images that should be blamed, but Joel always uses a wide brush.

    Secondly he writes saying that those who like anti-aliasing don't realise how it's blurry. That they're the blind zealot. He creates a weak person and then victoriously knocks them down. The nature of anti-aliasing is blurring. Everyone knows this. More accurately however it's the averaging of detail - as if the scene was rendered at many times the resolution and then scaled down to fit.

    He heaps praise on the Microsoft Typography group for 'noticing' that pixels are the units to build fonts out of. In saying so he either ignores or is ignorant of fonts that don't anti-alias at lower resolutions because of their rendering, and the concept of font-hinting which existed long before Microsoft existed.

  15. Free fonts? Free Microsoft! by mikey573 · · Score: 5, Funny

    I think you have a good idea that does not go far enough. Let's not just free the fonts, let's free all of Microsoft and buy them out! I wonder what would happen if we (opensource community) all gained a majority control in Microsoft. Couldn't we just force them to become open/free/libre?

  16. Not all fonts have to include Chinese by yerricde · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Before anyone here says that fonts are easy to make, you're probably forgetting the non-western character sets and the thousands of unicode characters.

    Just as there are fonts that specialize in "CJK" (Chinese Japanese Korean) glyphs, there can also be "LGC" fonts for Latin, Greek, and Cyrillic. A good font editor will have the user draw a bunch of glyphs representing A-Z in Latin, the Greek, Cyrillic, and IPA glyphs that do not match the Latin glyphs, and then some diacritics. Then from that data, it'll "compose" glyphs for the first 1500 or so characters in Unicode.

    Another optimization: when creating a new glyph, copy parts from similar glyphs and present them to the font designer for further work. For example, from b and p, you get (thorn). From D, you get Ð (edh). From l and n, you get h. From n, you can infer most of m. From f, you get long s, and from long s and normal s, you get ß.

    --
    Will I retire or break 10K?
    1. Re:Not all fonts have to include Chinese by foobar104 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Um. That actually sounds like a terrible way to design a font. I've never done any font design myself, but I used to work for an agency that employed a guy who could. He was no Twohy or Slimbach or anything, but while I was there he designed three Latin-alphabet typefaces. He drew each glyph by hand on big sheets of paper, then scanned them and converted them to vector art. He spent weeks trying out tons of combinations of letters to see how the forms would look together, designing ligatures where it was appropriate. (A ligature is a single glyph that looks like two letters. The classic example is the "ae" ligature which looks like an "a" and an "e" smooshed together, but that's not terribly common. Every professional typeface, though, has ligatures for the letter combinations "fi," "ff", "fl", "ffi," and "ffl." Look at an "fi" in a book through a magnifying glass. You'll see that the bar of the f is connected to the i, and that the dot above the i is absent. It's a ligature.

      Anyway, my point is that designing usable general-purpose fonts is a lot more work than you imply here.

  17. Here's a possible way. by Paranoid · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Since many of the more slimey ones like to use open relays, perhaps that could be used to our advantage. A simple script which smelled like an open relay to anyone connecting to it, but in reality only placed messages in a queue for manual confirmation or something, could be used. Make it log everything anyone does to it, including full message contents, source address, traceroute info, whatever would prove useful in the court case. Its a simple variation on the honeypot theme, really.

    In fact, I think such a script may actually be worth writing. Hmmm. Does anyone have snort logs or something of the mechanism their probes use, or am I gonna have to write a full SMTP implementation?

    --
    Paranoid
    Bwaahahahahaa.
  18. An opinion. Fair enough. by The+Grip+Reamer · · Score: 3, Insightful

    "What a nightmare, a world full of objectivists."

    I've met a few who call themselves objectivists because they've read a chapter or two and think they've confirmed their Nietzchean views. If you've met any of these people and thought "this is objectivism," I can understand your opinion. I trust that it is subject to your ongoing appraisal.

    Atlas Shrugged presents neither dystopia nor utopia. Both notions are about the last irrevocable note a culture strikes. It shows the worst in men's spirits and the best -- two cultures. The last note of one isn't irrevocable and the note struck by the other isn't it's last.

  19. Re:Earthlink Popup Blocking by plover · · Score: 5, Informative
    Yes, you're a troll, but I'll bite anyway.

    There are many people who don't know about popup-blockers. Joe and Jane SixPack, living in Farmtown, Minnesota, simply don't know anything different. "That's just the way it is, isn't it?" 500,000 usernames are subscribed to Slashdot. That leaves only 99,500,000 other internet users.

    When Earthlink comes around and says "We promise no more pop-ups" this can actually awaken something within them that says "Hey, what a good idea. I'd pay for that." So they do.

    Over 90% of the users have EVERYTHING default on their PCs.

    --
    John
  20. George Washington was a terrorist? by kubrick · · Score: 3, Informative

    Wasn't Moon just a riff on the American Revolution, updated for the space age? Admittedly, the Founding Fathers didn't attack Britain directly, but that was probably due to lack of opportunity given the technology of the time.

    I read it in that sense because it seemed to fit with Heinlein's weird libertarian-fascist love of pioneers, and it seemed to be pretty thickly laid on, even down to using the Fourth of July etc.

    --
    deus does not exist but if he does
  21. Utopian novel: by netfunk · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The only thing I can find that is a (happy) Utopian novel is B.F. Skinner's Walden II, which is honestly a very interesting read. The book interested largely in the mechanics and psychology required for such a society, with just enough plot to keep Skinner's ideas moving.

    I have been told that it was the basis for Brave New World in some form or another, but it might just be Skinner's ideas that Huxley was borrowing from/parodying.

    I suppose you could count the original Walden (which has no relation to Walden II beyond the idea of utopia), but living alone doesn't qualify as Utopia...after all, the reasons that Utopias fall apart are...other people.

    Sartre was right, after all.

    Also, the concept of "Utopia" is usually written about for the sense of irony...reference 1984...plus we can find lots of stories like Animal Farm: good intentions turned to mud by human flaws. The point of Utopia, from a writers view, is to trample on it, generally. Take that for what it's worth.

    --ryan.

    --
    Don't say, "don't quote me," because if no one quotes you, you probably haven't said a thing worth saying.
  22. Utipoia as Dystopia by Samrobb · · Score: 3, Interesting
    A favorite of mine is Villains by Necessity by Eve Forward...
    What if good were so totally triumphant that it became a worse danger than evil, and a band of unemployed evil characters had to go on a desperate quest to find the means of putting the saving bit of evil back into the world?
    --
    "Great men are not always wise: neither do the aged understand judgement." Job 32:9
  23. Re:luna is a terrorist by itwerx · · Score: 3, Informative

    Heh, you're right, that isn't the best one to try first off. I'd try "Number of the Beast", "Stranger in a Strange Land" and "Time Enough for Love", in approximately that order.
    Heinlein always was a dirty old man, a male chauvinist pig and a bit of a bigot, with somewhat humorous/pitiful attempts to (over)compensate for these shortcomings in his books.
    However, he was a hell of a talented writer with a much broader vision than most sci-fi authors of his day and he also had to write for a society which (believe it or not) was a heck of a lot narrower minded then than it is now. If you can look past the shadows his own flaws cast on his writing you can discover some real works of art.

  24. Un-rant by The+Grip+Reamer · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "Let it just be said that this Romantic tried to call her poor justifications objectivity for a good reason... to hide the lack of any internal coherency."

    You're on. Name the lapses in coherency.

    "At least half the people that "like" her simply don't understand her and buy the surface level rhetoric of libertarean objectivity."

    You're right about that. I've met them. But you're a reasonable chap, right? So you won't call "objectivist" one who claims it for himself falsely, then, will you?

    "She hated Libertarians,"

    Yes, she did. Her political philosophy was grounded in her ethics and more deeply in her epistemology. It's evident that she believed serious political reform was untenable without a major philosophical evolution. How can a government protect rights they don't believe in? The Libertarians believe there are political solutions to philosophical problems (actually they don't acknowledge the problems are philosophical in nature -- it'd undermine their ringquest). And they don't care to ground their political notions in sound philosophy. As a result they're just shifting dogma like those of the other parties. The LP is well on its way to becoming yet another party (albeit a tiny one) awash in moral pragmatism.

    That said, I've voted for their candidate on occasion, when I think it's the best of the available choices. And because the two major parties no longer offset each other as well as they have in the past.

    ""Objectivity" for her refers to the cold hard outlook, the ability to step over a homeless person, not in the scientific sense of subjecting one's hypothesis to doubt and test."

    This is nonsense. A.) When does she step over a homeless person? In what book of hers? In what historical account? As I recall, in Atlas Shrugged, she has Dagny enjoy dinner with a tramp on her train. While it was not for charity, she was aware of the value of the meal to the tramp -- and she treated him respectfully. What would you have preferred? A kiss? Jeez. B.) In science, hypotheses are not "subjected" to "doubt", just to test. Courageous scientists enjoy subjecting hypotheses to the strictest tests because they marvel at those which remain standing. They maintain no affection toward false hypotheses. Because Rand shares none of her own personal introspection with you, you assume there'd been none? Read more. Objectivism isn't about spouting fiat and watching the world morph into spires of glass and steel. It's about determining and stating one's desire, finding out what it takes to accomplish it, and then doing it.

    "Nietzsche is a much better way to spend your youthful rebellion against the herd."

    Rebellions against herds are for the so-called non-conformists. They're blind to the irony that their ideals are determined by others -- that they've evaded the task of selecting their ideals. What happens when their "enemies" change their ideals? Do they lose the enemy or swap ideals? It's not about what you're against. It's about what you're *for*.

    "She [...] was justifying why men that rise to the top of the capitalist world, like Ken Lay, are a better sort of people, period."

    There are characters in Atlas Shrugged who "rose to the top" of their world who were most assuredly not capitalists. They were, in fact, villains. Perhaps you should consider reading the book.

    "Rand is actually quite dangerous, I think."

    Not really. She was short and out of shape. And now she's dead. But perhaps you mean to say that her ideas are quite dangerous. In the sense that they arm rational people against an irrational era, you're right.

    "She represents an anti-rationalism which is always a key ingredient in fascism."

    The "key ingredient" in fascism is the belief that the State is the creator/grantor of all rights. One would have to be anti-Reason to take this view. Please demonstrate how Ayn Rand supported this view. Take your time.

    -B...

  25. Re:Dogs dream about... by foobar104 · · Score: 4, Funny

    Chasing! If you look at the eyelids, during REM sleep they're moving like mad. Sometimes you see the legs twitching, I think this is a reaction to seeing something like a "prey" in the dream.

    I think that's reasonable, but I have to wonder if he's dreaming about chasing or about being chased. It bothers me to think of my dog having nightmares. Which is kind of strange, because I'm not really a dog person, especially-- the dog is my girlfriend's, and I inherited him when we moved in together. But thinking of my dog lying there alone, in the dark, afraid of something... that bothers me more than I'd care to admit. So when he's dreaming, I always put my hand on him to either comfort him or wake him up a little, and he calms down. Of course, if he was dreaming about chasing pork spare ribs through an endless meadow, then I just royally fouled that up for him, didn't I?

    I don't suppose it makes much sense to spend time thinking about dog dreams. But I do, I do.

  26. A list of Utopias from my senior course... by zoward · · Score: 4, Informative

    As a college senior I did an independent study course on Utopias. Here's the ones I remember referencing off the top of my head:

    Utopia - Thomas Moore
    Dispossessed - Ursula K. LeGuin
    Ecotopia - Ernest Callenbech (sp?)
    Looking Backward - Edward Bellamy
    City of God - St. Augustine
    The Republic - Plato
    State and Republic - V.I. Lenin (not a utopia per se, but an example of someone trying to implement one in the real world...).

    There are a lot of utopias that are not central the book they're in, but are there nonetheless. An obvious one that spring to mind is the Lotus-Eaters in Homer's Odyssey. Mythology has an abundance of them: Shangri-La? Xanadu? Atlantis?

    Many of these are a little more historical than the ones I've seen posted so far. In many of them what you're reading is the author trying to tell you that they've figured out what society should be like, and postulating that if we all ran out and implemented their proposed society we'd have heaven on earth. Half the fun of reading them is figuring out whether they will work, or why they won't.

    --
    "Can't you see that everyone is buying station wagons?"