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Algebra As A Gateway Subject

Spock the Baptist writes: "The Washington Post started a two article series Sunday, and Monday August 18 and 19 2002. The articles deal with something that the math, engineering, and physics faculties at colleges, and universities have long known. Algebra is a 'gateway subject' for math, science, and technology, and secondary schools in general are not doing a good job teaching algebra."

29 of 591 comments (clear)

  1. Algebra is taught wrong. by Inominate · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Currently algebra is taught as a "You'll need to know this eventually" kind of a subject. Most of it is forgotten in a few days. Instead of teaching algebra, and then a few years later using it, math classes should be integrated with the science classes in which math skills are usefull.

    A skill without a use is going to be forgotten quickly.

    1. Re:Algebra is taught wrong. by andrews · · Score: 3, Insightful
      How about using it every day?

      Do you ever solve for an unknown quantity?

      How many pizzas do I have to order to keep four programmers working through the night?

      That's Algebra in a nutshell.

      I use Algebra, Geometry, Trigonometry Statistics and yes even Calculus almost every day. Cost curves, margins, product pricing, queuing theory... it's all part of every day business life.

      Poor math teaching in school ruins people's lives. I have to teach employees the basic math skills they need to do their jobs, and these are people with college degrees.

    2. Re:Algebra is taught wrong. by Orthanc_duo · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Unfortunatly the beauty is something that cannot be taught except to those who already know it. It also does not appeal to the masses...

    3. Re:Algebra is taught wrong. by foonf · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I appreciate what you are saying, and I think it is true that there are many people who will never like math, but I also cannot see how any pedagogical system predicated on the assumption that what is being taught is inherently boring and undesirable to know can possibly result in meaningful learning.

      Really, I feel like if a person only likes cars or sports, they should be free to direct their education in that direction, without being forced to study any more math (or anything else) than they want to in order to do what they like. Reciprocally, the only people who would study mathematics would be those people who actually wanted to.

      But a system like this runs into tons of problems, I don't deny that, especially when financial success depends on taking a certain educational path during ones youth. The dynamics of education are totally different when things are made compulsory, and the focus becomes "how can we make people like what we are forcing them to do", rather than allowing people to do what they like. And maybe trying to tie it into things which do make sense to their lives will work better (read: higher test scores, or perhaps more qualified engineers in the future) than working under the mistaken assumption that everyone wants to learn.

      As an aside: Everything I remember of myself and my friends, from before prolonged exposure to education, suggests to me that children in their "natural" state really do enjoy learning. To paraphrase your comment, I think that most students see learning as a chore because learning in the school setting _is_ a chore. I've known many people who ended up dropping out of school or getting through very marginally, who I must say loved to learn, but simply could not work within the framework of school. There are things (drawing comes to mind) that, because they were forced on me at an early age against my will, I don't think I will ever be able to learn to do or even appreciate. And moreover, when I think about those teachers whose classes I really enjoyed, the one thing that they all had in common was a belief in the intrinsic worth of what they were teaching, and a sort of stubborn insistence that really, the students in the class _did_ want to learn, whether that was the apparent case or not.

      --

      "(Man) tries to live his own life as if he were telling a story. But you have to choose: live or tell." --Sartre
    4. Re:Algebra is taught wrong. by civilizedINTENSITY · · Score: 4, Insightful

      "Personally, I would rather have seen the intrinsic logic and beauty first, and the "real-world" applications later."->math is always presented as primarily being a useful tool for other areas of discipline is simply because that's exactly what it is. Math, at its lowest level, is merely a language to describe things.

      My BS was in Physics, and I'm currently working on my MS in applied Mathematics. I'm still working my way through the paradim shift, but I can empatically state that your comment would raise issues with my professors. Math is most definitely neither about describing things, nor about being useful. To anyone doing abstract work, the suggestion that they are "applied" is considered an insult. They are better than that. They have generalized beyound the mere physical descriptions and are involved in the essence of mathematical logic. Now one can use math to model, yes. But then much work is done to remove from the proofs any hint of that real world model. The "scaffolding must be removed from the cathedral before its presented to the public". The concept that math works "Exactly the same way that a programming language describes the actions that a program performs" sounds alot like the Computational world view. While I lean towards applied and computational maths myself, this is *not* the world view of the majority of math people. There work is more than "purely recreational", they would say, but it isn't "useful" either.

    5. Re:Algebra is taught wrong. by shawnseat · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The biggest problem is that our educational system was designed in the Great Depression (before that, there was generally only education until 8th grade). Over the course of the last 40 years, we have lost most of the agricultural jobs and a large fraction of the factory jobs which can be filled with those who are basically innumerate. The history of the US system was sort of a sink-or-swim approach, and since it was preparing you for the dull factory jobs (at the bottom of the education scale) anyway, getting used to monotony was a feature not a bug! The developments in our economy have outstripped the ability of teachers (especially in math) to keep up. So there's a time lag built into the system, unfortunately.

      --
      Religion is the opiate of the masses. The wealthy smoke the real stuff.
    6. Re:Algebra is taught wrong. by philg · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You miss the point. (Well, IMO anyway, I can't speak for the original poster.) Making algebra skills required in other classes has a fundamental practical advantage -- it makes it harder to get any good (or even passing) grades if you don't know a fundamental skill.

      Reading is already this way; students that can't read or have trouble are virtually doomed to low grades, as reading skills are relied upon at increasing sophistication almost as soon as they are taught. It is a very obvious red flag that students are missing something very important.

      It is very difficult to impart a genuine appreciation for something before someone understands it at some level.While I agree that this approach needs to be much, much more heavily promoted, I also think you need the negative, "look, just learn it" repercussions of an interdependent curriculum, so society can be guaranteed that children emerging from our schools have a known baseline of educational skills.

      phil

  2. Home School by Grumpman · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I agree that public schools can't do the job. The teachers are told to crank the kids through as fast as they can with little to no support from the board or, more importantly, the parents. It's not their fault. They are among the lowest paid professionals doing a thankless job.

    Solution, home school. My wife stays at home and raises our two kids. My 3 year old can count to 20 in English and Spanish (no, I'm not bilingual), do simple sums, and knows her alphabet. I plan on testing her knowledge of the Pythagorean theorem before she hits 10. She will not be rushed, pressured, bullied, or pampered. But we can give her a far better education than some underpaid, overworked teacher afraid to discipline her class for fear of losing her job or his life.

    1. Re:Home School by Cyno01 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      i'm not going to get into a big debate here, but home schooling lacks a big part of regular schooling, somethign /.rs may be afraid of, *gasp* social interaction, maybe if parents would get off their asses and read to their kids or buy them books instead fo designer clothes our kids wouldnt; be so dumb, i'm currently in highschool and i see astounding levels of idiocy all around me, i attend a public high school, it sucks, i learn next to nothing, and what i do learn isn;t relevant to anything but which bubbles i'll be filling in at the end of the week, instead of just assuming the school was doing its job my parents took me to museums, bought me books and gave me magazine subscriptions for my birthday (popular science is an apropriate subscription for a third grader if you cut out all the doral ads)i dont learn at school, i do whats required of me to get a pice of paper and learn on my own, mostly i go to school to be with my friends, home schooled kids are always super-smart, but i'm sure we all know/remember the weird homeschooled kid who lived around the corner

      --
      "Sic Semper Tyrannosaurus Rex."
    2. Re:Home School by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Ever heard of recess or lunch? As more and more kids spend their time after school locked away indoors, it becomes one of the few opportunities they have to socialize with other people their age. Even if it's not "better" it is the norm, and so if you're not part of this, you will be abnormal to everyone else.

    3. Re:Home School by andrews · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I doubt things have changed much from when I was in school. Lunch, recess and every other activity was strictly by grade until high school. By then it's too late, paterns are set. How many HS seniors hang out with the freshmen?

  3. Flying and Algebra by HerrGlock · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I thought it was an "I'll never need this or see it again" when I was in HS. Problem is, I became an Instructor Pilot. Algebra was life and used every day.

    I read in the Washington Post that the Maryland schools are putting BS into the standardized tests and calling it "algebra" and then they wonder why Johnny cannot do anything in real life.

    Perhaps we can get back to basic R, R, and R one day and not be as worried about people getting their feelings hurt when they need help in the subjects.

    DanH

    --
    Cav Pilot's Reference Page
    UNIX - Not just for Vestal Virgins anymore
  4. As a secondary algebra teacher by Troy · · Score: 5, Insightful

    One of my biggest problems teaching algebra is that my students were never given a firm foundation in basics throughout middle school. The philosophy described by the article is accurate as to what I am seeing in middle school math education, but results in a bunch of students who can only solve linear equations in a "trained monkey" kind of way. They have no real cognition as to what their actions mean (ie. When you add to both sides of an equation, you aren't REALLY changing it.) I was halfway through last year (my first year in a new district) before I realized that most of my [otherwise intelligent] students really didn't understand basic concepts like substitution, the difference between an expression and an equation, why you do things to both sides of an equation, etc etc etc.

    Let me tell you how much of a nightmare solving solutions were.

    I also think that algebra is pushed on students before they are cognitively ready. The average middle school student should go as far as evaluating expressions, variable substitutions, (MAYBE) 1 step equations and (MOST importantly) reading an expression (ie. 3x + 4 means three times x plus 4). The rest of their time should be spent brushing up and applying their ARITHMETIC skills, such as working with/reducing fractions. Give me a class of students who know how to substitute and know their arithmetic, and I'll give you a class of all stars.

    In this upcoming year, I'm dedicating the first 2-3 weeks to an intensive review of arithmetic and bare bones algebra. Hopefully that will smooth things over as we go on.

    I really like the suggestion of merging science with math. I would love to see those two subjects team taught over a double period.

    1. Re:As a secondary algebra teacher by Jucius+Maximus · · Score: 4, Insightful
      "and (MOST importantly) reading an expression (ie. 3x + 4 means three times x plus 4)."

      I agree with you fully on that point. I am a university student (in Ontario, Canada) and sometimes I hear tales from the really enthusiastic professors about some of the madness when they taught grade school level math.

      For example, one kid did something like this:

      Question: 6x + (-5) = 63

      Answer: x = 8

      Question: 3x - (+12) = 15

      Answer: No solution!

      Now really try to think about the thought process which would have lead to these (wrong) answers. Can you figure out what the kid thought? I couldn't until the prof explained it to me:

      The kid thought that the first question read as "sixty-(what) minus five equals sixty-three" ?

      And naturally 68 - 5 = 63

      Thus you can figure out how the kid thought there was no answer in the second one.

      Yes, you are right, and there are too many kid falling through the cracks and with rising class sizes, you can't help them all get the concepts right.

      "The rest of their time should be spent brushing up and applying their ARITHMETIC skills, such as working with/reducing fractions. Give me a class of students who know how to substitute and know their arithmetic, and I'll give you a class of all stars."

      Once again I think that you are right on the money. Too many people are afraid of fractions. Back in the 80s in Canada, fractions were a real subject in grade 6-8 and the students came out of it with a real industrial knowledge of how they work. Most people in my generation in Ontario are scared stiff of the same things. (But if you take a kid from Alberta, they know it cold because they do it all in grade 4-5 there.) Fortunately for me, I was blessed with a really bad teacher (?!?) in grade 5 who was terrible at teaching fractions, so I just ignored him and actually figured out on my own how they worked.

      Even now I see people my age who are half way though a university level engineering program solving laplace transforms and systems of differential equations, and they can't handle fractions within fractions or negative fractional exponents.

      I wish you good SKILL in tuning your students into shape. I believe you have your priorities in the right place and know what the real problems are.

    2. Re:As a secondary algebra teacher by SmokeSerpent · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It is not a matter of cognitive development, it is the result of a poor elementary school preparation.

      In elementary school students are taught nothing about mathematics, period. All they are taught is to memorize tables of results of the four major operations. They are taught to apply these operations to larger numbers, but few students will ever grasp why 3x3=9, because they are never taught to understand such concepts, and students who ask are often brushed aside, and frankly this is because few elementary school teachers understand basic mathematics either.

      After learning, or more often failing to learn to perform these operations, students then have the rug pulled out from under them... "Oh, by the way, these fraction things are really unsolved divisions, and and the 'equals' sign doesn't really mean 'do some stuff to these things and write the result over there'..."

      Furthermore, within the teaching of Algebra and onward, the emphasis is on the memorization of equations and specific cases, with little or no attention paid to the underlying cause of these "facts". I am a firm believer in the not-common-enough practice of "open book" tests or allowed "cheat sheets", which in the proper teaching and testing environment would promote actual learning and understanding as the mind is freed from the need to focus on memorization.

      If we actually taught Mathematics from Kindergarten up, rather than teaching counting, then arithmetic, then algebra, we wouldn't have this sudden dramatic drop-off in comprehension at the Algebra level. And if we focused on understanding rather than memorization, we might actually get understanding.

      --
      All kings is mostly rapscallions. -Mark Twain, The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn
    3. Re:As a secondary algebra teacher by bfields · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I also think that algebra is pushed on students before they are cognitively ready. The average middle school student should go as far as evaluating expressions, variable substitutions, (MAYBE) 1 step equations and (MOST importantly) reading an expression (ie. 3x + 4 means three times x plus 4). The rest of their time should be spent brushing up and applying their ARITHMETIC skills, such as working with/reducing fractions. Give me a class of students who know how to substitute and know their arithmetic, and I'll give you a class of all stars.

      No way. This is how we end up with a typical math sequence that goes:

      • 6th grade: we're finishing up arithmetic now, and then we're going to get you ready for algebra with little fill-in-the-blank arithmetic problems and stuff. Next year you'll do real algebra! Won't it be fun.
      • 7th grade: fooled ya! No algebra yet, no, we're doing pre-algebra! Next year you'll do real algebra! Won't it be fun!
      • 8th grade: OK! This year we're going to give you a little algebra. But not too much! You'll learn to solve 2 equations in 2 unknowns, but we don't trust you to actually *understand* something so mind-bending, so we'll just give you a bunch of really mechanical drills on this.
      • 9th grade: wait! We're not sure you got that! Let's go over that algebra stuff again, and maybe do a tiny bit more.
      • 10th grade: you guessed it: more algebra! This time maybe you even get a little trig or very basic analytic geometry or something.
      • 11th grade: pre-calculus, which is, you guess it, more algebra....
      • 12th grade: calculus, whoop-de-do.

      And this is for the super-bright kids. Come on! Even the "slowest" kids want to see something new every now and then!

      I know how frustrating it is trying to teach people something when they don't really have the prerequisites down cold yet, but that's life; they'll pick that stuff up when they have to, and you can't let it keep you from throwing the new stuff at them too....

      --Bruce F.

  5. math teachers by NeoSkandranon · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This seemed to be pointed more towards the middle-school level math courses, but I never had algebra that low. I took algebra I, II and precalculus in highschool, and IMHO (this being two years after i graduated) the problem is that algebra classes have to cater to the lowest commmon denominator, since they're almost universally required for graduation. Even in college calc, our teacher had to spend a few minutes refreshing everyone's memory on basic algebra (factoring, synthetic division, etc)because we never really learned it.

    Of course, one approach would be to fail the fuckwits that can't hack it, but apparently teachers catch more flak for failing lazy students than passing smart ones.

    --
    If you can't see the value in jet powered ants you should turn in your nerd card. - Dunbal (464142)
  6. Ann Landers by jkastner · · Score: 2, Insightful
    This topic reminds me of a recent Ann Landers letter. The writer mentioned her fear of math, and how the community college she was going to was requiring her to take math she "wouldn't use". She closed by wondering if Ann thought this made sense. Ann agreed that it made no sense to force a person to take "advanced math classes, like Algebra" if they weren't going to use it.

    Since when is Algebra advanced math? That sort of attitude doesn't help this country at all. I was going to write Ann a reply letter, but since she was already dead I didn't bother.

    Disclaimer: I'm currently working on a Ph.D. in applied mathematics

  7. it's hard to code without algebra... by thepoolguy · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Your code without algebra:

    10 print "I never learned algebra"
    20 goto 10

    Your code with algebra:

    for (i=0; i<10; i++) {
    printf("I learned my algebra!!!\n");
    }

    -tpg

  8. As a teacher by Quill_28 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I taught math for exactly one year. My biggest problem with teaching was not teaching algebra but fractions!! They were never taught how to add and multiply fractions, except by using a calculator. Some of these kids were quite intelligent and had no problems with
    x^2 +6x +8 =0 but (x+1)/2 = 4 and they were lost. All the blame can't be laid on the jr/sr high some of it also falls before they get there.

  9. The problem isn't that the teachers are aiming low by sam31415 · · Score: 2, Insightful
    ... but that they're aiming only for one spot, low or not. Teaching a subject the same way to every student (both those with interests in the subject and those without) isn't going to work no matter what you do; you'll bore the bright ones or lose the not-so. The damage caused by aiming somewhere lower is secondary to the fact that there will almost certainly be damage no matter where we aim.

    Some may point to Special Education and/or Gifted programs as alleviating this, but they are typically under funded, help only the lower/upper 3-10%, and don't have any set way to help, instead focusing on the main weaknesses/strengths of the bottom/top 2-3 individuals.

    Example: my HS gifted program was essentially a quiz bowl team. Why? It wasn't because we learned a lot(we didn't), but because we had 3 people who were really good. Everyone else was perfectly happy, because going to the events meant they could hang out with their friends and usually get free food. For them, it was just a bonus to watch the top 3 do so well sometimes.

    Why hasn't a solution been found and used? Quite simple: parents don't want their kids labeled negatively, and quite often kids don't want to be labeled positively by teachers because it leads to more negative labels from their peers. Having multiple classes, each for a certain level of performer, and you will have complaints, and lots of them.

    In other words, don't necessarily blame the teachers or the buereaucrats for the problems of the system--blame our culture for being too Politically Correct.

  10. math more linear= more chance of getting derailed by call+-151 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Moreso than any other subject, mathematics has more of a linear structure- meaning dependence upon previous material.

    If you have a bad teacher for 7th grade English, you may never quite be the greatest at diagramming sentence grammar, but the chances are high that you can overcome that shortcoming and still learn to compose good essays, read literature for more than just content, and so on. Other subjects also have the potential to recover from a bad teacher or missed material.

    But mathematics has much more of a reliance on prerequisite material. If you have a bad instructor and don't develop good algebra skills, you will struggle and have a great deal of difficulty in algebra 2, trig, etc. When people find out that I do research in mathematics, (a casual conversation-killer if there ever was one) they often have a story, something like "I was always good at math until Mrs. Crabapple in 10th grade" or something like that. One bad experience leads to poor understanding in that subject, and, unfortunately, is rarely overcome and years of struggle result.

    I've seen people get derailed at all levels and it really is a problem that needs addressing. At the undergraduate level, sometimes it is particularly painful to witness when a student passes a class (such as first-semester calculus) without learning the material. This can put them into a hopeless limbo- they have no chance of passing the next class, and will probably fail it a few times, but they cannot take the preceding class since they already passed it (sometimes even with a reasonable grade.)

    There is a unfortunate stigma to taking something a second time, and that stigma undermines healthy mathematical learning. Sometimes it takes seeing things more than once, or from more than one teacher, before it makes sense. Passing students who just barely have a grasp of the material does them little good and may doom them to years of floundering.

    Until there is more recognition of this fundamental aspect of mathematical learning, there will be way too many people who grow up dreading "story problems" and "meaningless algebra"

    --
    It's psychosomatic. You need a lobotomy. I'll get a saw.
  11. Re: You can thank John Dewey by benzapp · · Score: 5, Insightful

    For this spectacular collapse of education, we have the renowned professor John Dewey of Columbia to thank. Yes, the same amazing mind behind the Dewey Decimal system also flagrantly defied centuries of knowledge about the way humans learned and decided that in fact, humans do not learn by experience, but learn by rote.

    Men used to learn as apprenctices, learning while doing for years at a time. The educated labored over Socratic dialogues written over two thousand years before, learning that wisdom and knowledge comes only in knowing to ask the right question.
    Many students used to take great pleasure in practicing Socrates' dark art by befuddling others into realizing their own ignorance.

    But then, the powers that be at the great school of Columbia looked at the masses of the great unwashed in the masses of tenaments of the South Bronx and decided that man was in fact a machine, ready to be programmed at any time. One must merely sit, listen, and learn from those more knowledgeable than he.

    And that is when the transformation took place. Instead of teaching children to ask the right questions, it was the teacher who asked the questions and the student who answered them. Critical thinking was no longer a necessary aspect of learning. One could merely develop the inhuman ability to memorize on end without any care as to its purpose. And then succeed. Some can do this, no doubt. Most likely, the abundance of Cocaine in numerous remedies for uncooperative children in the 1890's probably led some to believe humans could practice such tasks better than they otherwise could. Those complaining of stimulant use by children today are sadly ignorant of a tradition going back 120 years.

    But there is a limit, all the stimulant drugs in the world can't teach a child to think critically.

    The human being is different than other creatures in that we solve problems creatively, by using our heads, not our bodies. The dog when attacked, knows it will fight back. It cannnot imagine any other way to do this than by using its teeth. When it is hungry, it cannot imagine any other way to get food unless that food is right in front of it.

    Humans possess the spark of imagination that is wonderous in its abilities to do and create like never before. It is unfortunate when I see anyone creating the false dichotomy of beauty, art, and science, for they are all the same. We must teach children from the beginning to solve problems, to create what has never existed before, and help them along the way. Algreba should not be a subject in and of itself, it is the most basic form of deductive logic that should be a part of a simple logic class. Math in general should not be a stand alone subject, but taught as a tool in the course of study.

    We have followed John Dewey's advice for nearly one hundred years, that a child's brain should be poured full of knowledge. It is false, and destructive. We now have a nation of zombies, unable to question anything or solve any problems. They are hardly human, other than form. is it any wonder they merely stuff their faces with food and vicariously live out there sexual fantasies on television? They know nothing of humanity, they feel only the urges of animals. Eat and fuck, eat and fuck. Is this all life is? Of course, they cannot even ask THAT question...

    --
    I don't read or respond to AC posts
  12. For all those who think that Algebra is boring... by commie_pig · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I could not help seeing quite a few postings about how "boring" algebra is. Algebra is boring in proportion to how boring the person is who is teaching it. It IS important, and it IS required for all sorts of mathematical subjects later on.

    For anyone who has object orientation sussed out, think about containers... what are they? They are (abstract) algebraic structures with certain operations that can be performed on them. You can only get a deeper understanding once you know algebra!

    This might seem like a trivial example, but there are many similar examples where a sound mathematical basis helps considerably in software design (because you can approach the problems differently)

    Oh and of course I have not even started on the importance of math in engineering (but I am not an engineer, so I'll leave it at that).

    Moral of the story - the moment that the standard of mathematics drops, the entire IT industry will feel the blow of ineptitude.

    --

    "I hate people who fabricate unintelligent quotes to add to their work seemingly by some 'anon' sage" -- anon

  13. Re: You can thank John Dewey by Zathrus · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Ah, so in other words we should go back to the old days of apprenticeship and merely allow the curious to move forward.

    Sure. Go for it. After all, the last 10000 years of human society clearly had a far better education level and standard of living than we do today.

    Or, hell, we don't even have to go back that far. Go look at some of the areas of the world that don't have mandatory schooling. They're top notch. Just last week I was thinking of moving to sub Saharan Africa because they have the best quality of life in the world.

    The reality is that you're completely wrong. Even as far back as Socrates and Plato the teacher posed questions to the student. Did students ask questions too? Sure. And *gasp* -- they can now too. If you want to bitch about the (US) educational system, bitch about the funding. Teachers work harder than just about any other profession (hrm, an 8 hour day with no breaks plus another 4-8 hours of planning and grading after school hours), pay them relatively little, make them pay for class supplies out of their own budget, and expect them to educate and morally instruct our children at the same time. With little or no parental backup.

    The other minor fact you forgot to mention is the expansion of knowledge in the past 150 years. The concept of a Renaissance Man is dead -- because there is no way for one person to hold the sum of human knowledge now. You can (and should) have a broad base of education, but "jack of all trades, master of none" is becoming increasingly true. Without modern schooling it's impossible to tutor our youth in even a small amount of the knowledge base. Do you know what literacy rates were prior to mandatory education? How many of the illiterate learned basic math, much less algebra?

  14. Bullshit by DesScorp · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Sorry, but the arguement that rote learning is evil and useless is bullshit. Rote learning isn't good for EVERYTHING, but in some subjects, it's neccessary, especially for young minds. It's got it's place. In most of the countries where schoolchildren regularly beat the piss out of US children in math and science scores, rote learning is the preffered method of teaching, at least in most of the math classes. All learning is NOT going to be fun and fascinating. There are neccessary things to learn in ANY education that are going to be just plain boring and tedious. We've gotten this idea that all classroom instruction should be creative and "personaly fullfilling", when a lot of the bedrock knowledge neccessary for things like theoretical physics must come from hard, repetitive memorization. I had both kinds of instruction, and it seems the class always did better when we had to memorize the principles first, then "drill till it kills". Once that solid foundation is laid, THEN you can better understand the theoretical.

    --
    Life is hard, and the world is cruel
  15. Algebra Teaching by Artagel · · Score: 3, Insightful

    First of all, teachers can't serve as the sole source of motivation for students. Parents and communities have to do that too. The transition for fractions to algebra is one of the hardest on young people. As noted above, one problem is that students that did not have a good grasp of fractions just become more lost in algebra. A second problem is the motivation to learn this new, hard subject.

    Students need to understand that "the future is now." This is part of a runup to calculus in college (if not sooner), and that what you can or cannot do in math can and will shape your future. If you do not know algebra II and trigonometry, you are going nowhere in Physics I. No Physics I, no engineering, no chemistry, likely no computer science, etc.

    Second, we have to face the fact that many students in math want to get through the class with a decent grade, but have no ambitions to actual understanding. They WANT to be trained monkeys. Their parents often have uncritical aspirations too, and will be happy with trained monkeys.

    Thus, they do not want to understand the associative and distributive properties. A trained monkey type of student can solve problems while not fully grasping the properties. A student who understands these properties will have an important intellectual tool available. The idea that certain types things can or can't be related in certain well-defined ways is an important idea.

    To those who want to teach math only in the context of solving science problems I say: foo. Mathematical training needs to be broader than the known scientific problems to be solved or you encourage inside-the-box thinking. Where in a physic experiment does someone like Godel become relevant? What about Fermat's last theorem?

    Gear the teaching to allow the best to be the best. The crank-churners who don't want to excel will find a way to get a B or C on the test. That's why they call average grades "mediocre." The system has to tolerate the mediocre accepting their lot, but it doesn't have to discourage virtuosity in doing so.

  16. Math needs a connection to the world by tswaterman · · Score: 2, Insightful
    I read a lot here about he intrinsic beauty and logic of math. Personally, I agree -- but then, I already understand a lot of it.

    I think that for young students, a good connection with the real world is a requirement for coming to an understanding of the math. I've taught CS at the graduate level, and was always utterly disappointed in the degree of math understanding of the average student. My wife researches grade school math education, is us utterly disappointed with the manner in which it's taught.

    Algebra isn't that hard, really. I like to claim that any sixth grader who can figure out what he can get for lunch with the money in his packet has a basic grasp of it already. Part of the problem is that students are encouraged, from a very early age, to believe that they won't really understand math. "Just do it this way", and you'll get the right answer. They aren't usually taught why that way works, or what's going on. They just push numbers around the right way, and write down what you get. There's a definite lack of connection between the "real world" that the students live in and the way it gets talked about in math class.

    I also agree that there's far too much repitition in the math curriculum. From my own experience, we learned "fractions" in third grade, did them again in 4th, reviewed them in 5th, went back to them in 6th, etc. By this time I had already dropped out, and started doing algebra and trig as a way to keep myself occupied. Many other students just stopped paying attention, not because it was hard or they didn't get it, but because it was clear that it wasn't ever going anywhere. What a sham!

    --tsw

  17. I agree, but I've got a nitpick by howlingfrog · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Linear is not the word you want. If math were linear, after learning one concept, there'd be only one direction to go, only one choice for the next concept. Nothing could be further from the truth. The correct word for the concept you're using is cumulative, meaning you have to understand the last concept before you can understand the next. Cumulativity and linearity, in this context, are sort of chronological reverses of one another: linearity dictates the next concept, cumulativity dictates the previous.

    --
    The original Howling Frog is a fictional character and has no UID.