Scientifically Oriented PDAs?

Froze asks: "This is the beginning of my seventh year in school (yes, I am a grad student) and I am looking for the most cost effective solution in a scientifically oriented PDA. A strong compatibility with Linux is a must. My background is in Physics and Mathematics, so it would be nice to have some way of handling mathematical input (like the Zaurus). An on-board language would be a plus as well, something along the lines of bash, Perl, or Java would do."

"I have looked at some of the Linux PDA's out there like Sharps Zaurus and Agenda's VR3 (which is discontinued, I think) and generally liked what I saw. Ultimately, I would like to have the following features:

• Software that can handle math input
• The ability to compile code for it
• An attachable keyboard (close to full size)
• Full Linux compatibility
• Vibrating alarm (things that beep annoy me)
• Pricing that a student can afford

Not all of these are a must. I figured that Slashdot would be the perfect place to ask, with its compliment of intellectual types (yes, I know flattery will get me nowhere *grin!*)."

Comments

TI-92

[Apreche]

You don't want a PDA, you want a calculator. TI has had the TI-92 for a long time. It will solve all of your on the go math needs. I think they also have some new calculator that is better than the 92. Check Texas Instruments' website to see what their latest offering is. While it doesn't run Linux itself there is a great deal of linux software that allows you to interface with the calculator. Other than that I believe this device will suit all your needs. It is also very reasonably priced compared to palm devices.

Re:TI-92

[zhar]

I would have to agree that a TI-92 or 92+ would be the way to go, but as far as a programming language on it, you'd better learn some assembly or you'll be stuck using TI-BASIC.

Re:TI-92

[NickVS]

There's a C compiler for the TI-89 and -92 called TIGCC; I've never used it, and I don't think that it can be loaded on the calcualor itself.

If you want to look at calcualors, the HP-49G might be worth a look. It has a clock and a beeper, a formidable CAS, an on board or 3rd party support for ASM, SYS-RPL, Reverse Polish Lisp and HP-BASIC. It also has a wealth of high quality scientific/mathmatical applications. There are a few computer linking programs avalable (Kermit and a few others).

None of the calc platforms will fill vary many of the compatiblity requiremints as far as I know.

FYI:
http://www.hpcalc.org/
http://www.ticalc. org/
comp.sys.hp48

Re:TI-92

[cpex]

I have an ti-89 I believe it is the exact same claculator as the 92 minus the keyboard and missing a few geometry apps. I love this calculator especially for all those pesky integrals that can come up. There are tons of apps on the net you can download or purchase. I think i even saw spice ported to the ti-os. It does have a C compiler but I never tried it. No you cant code c onto the calc you have to use a computer but who would want to code directly onto the keypad anyways. You can make the ti do anything you want.

Re:TI-92

[Froze]

Thanks for telling me what I want :-)

I have a friend that has a Ti-92, its a sweet device, except for one thing. I am an RPN junkie, infix just hurts after using postfix for so long. I don't know if there any ways to make the Ti talk RPN, but if there were then I might have to reconsider them.

Re:TI-92

[Anonymous Coward]

I would have agreed with you a couple of years ago, but there's too many apps now available for PDAs.

True, there's tons of stuff for HPs and TIs, but it doesn't necessarily compare to what's available for PDAs now.

LyME is a great MATLAB-compatible environment for mathematical computing on Palm OS, and there's other nice calculator programs as well.

I can store Adobe pdfs and other documents on my PDA too, when I need to have them as references, and can run any number of things on it, including C, Java, and other programming environments.

I agree that if you need some hard core number crunching on a regular basis, a calc is the way to go. But nowdays, I doubt that you'd do that on your TI or HP anyway--probably more likely to use a workstation.

So why not use a laptop? Because they're too big generally, and too slow. So what I find myself needing is something that I can store journal articles and reference materials on, has a nice calendar, memo pad, address book, etc., and can do matrix computations and integration when I need it but don't have a computer around. Since that's rare, I don't need the entire thing to be built around number-crunching.

Re:TI-92

[zhar]

It has been my experience that the C compilers for the 92 and 89 turn out some VERY badly optimized code, making it not worth my time to use them.

Easy

[PhysicsGenius]

Buy a TI-89 or TI-92. Calculator.

I have the TI-89 and it handles math and physics beautifully, including pretty-print output, "spreadsheets", function/parametric/3d/polar graphing and the greek alphabet. It is programmable (in a BASIC type language) right on the device. You can buy a keyboard to make this simpler (though the 92, which is functionally identical to the 89, is more PDA-shaped and won't need one). If you buy the GraphLink cable you can upload and download files (including programs in ASM). People have written games and PDA-like functions for things like address books. The only feature missing on your list is an alarm.

Price: $100 (+$15 for the cable from WalMart).

PocketPCs with Linux?

[zmalone]

Why not look at the PocketPC machines? Quite a few people have gotten them working with serial chording keyboards (link), you can install Linux on them, and you have many input options, PCMCIA, serial, compactflash, smart cards, etc.

Of course, the Zaurus is a very similar device, and it comes with Linux, but you mention it in the article, so I assume you've already looked into it.

So why not the Zaurus ???

[TibbonZero]

What's wrong with the Zaurus? It seems to fit the bill for the most part.
The Ti calculators are good as well. Even the TI-83 if I remember right has scientific probes and anaylzing software that you can get. It's pretty cheap too.

well...

[Anonymous Coward]

given the Pricing that a student can afford requirement, I think you're SOL.

Recommend paper & pencil, TI-96 graphing calculator, and a watch with an alarm. Total costs: about $130. Perfect pricing that a student can afford

Vibrates?

[TibbonZero]

The Palm 705i and simalar are the only ones I know of that vibrate. This seems a little useless however, depending on what type of research you are doing.

Imagine: Pouring NitroGlycerine into a vessel, the scientist deciedes to measure the temperature, putting the probe, someone IMs him, or he has an appointment alarm, BUZZ, BUZZ, it hits the Pyrex glass, and disturbs the liquid, and it falls to the floor, boom!

Not too pretty, I think that should be the last thing that you want. I can see why you would want it, but I see it as being annoying in a lab.
Use your science PDA for science, and your day to day PDA/phone for elsewhere, but that's just my opinion.

Re:Vibrates?

[Froze]

Thanks for the laugh!

Although it might be more appropriately aimed at a Chemist ;-)

budget of students..

[TibbonZero]

Hey, some students have alot more money than others. I know that some students pay more than 1500/month for their share of apartments in boston. Some students drive M3's or other hot cars. Some students keep the newest video card and processor in their system. And mommy and daddy who are rich business owners, doctors, or lawyers pay for it all.
Then again, some students eat ramen noodles for every meal, walk everywhere, use pencils because pens are too costly, and don't have a computer because all their money is going to tutition, and their parents won't help them a bit so they work for every dime they have.

I think he should have given a better number than "pricing that a student can afford". It's hard to tell how much money he has.

Re:budget of students..

[RevAaron]

I am one of those people that pay for everything. But I don't eat nothing but ramen- perhaps these people need to be made aware of the FAFSA? Subsidized Federal loans are my friends!

Yes, I still work a lot to pay for rent, the loans don't cover tution, but I live comfortably enough! No car, thank god tho.

Re:budget of students..

[Anonymous Coward]

Only works if you are a US citizen. There are international
student loans available from companies, but they look
kinda dodgy..and require a US citizen or green card
holder to co-sign.

*sigh* \me is a very broke international grad student living on a stipend meant for one (but supporting my pregnant wife who cannot work in the US due to visa restrictions).

Re:budget of students..

[TamMan2000]

But most of them are not the grad school types...

Re:budget of students..

[jovlinger]

for $1500 a month/head you're not sharing an appt, but a palace. You're talking marble stairs and sub-zero fridges.

even in boston.

You live well, alone, for $1100; sharing should be cheaper - high end shares right downtown will not go much higher than $1000, all included. Accept a 10 minute commute and you're easily at the $800 mark.

Thank god you aren't an English major

[wackybrit]

Not all of these are a must. I figured that Slashdot would be the perfect place to ask, with its compliment of intellectual types (yes, I know flattery will get me nowhere )."

You mean complement, of course. In fact, that's a mathematical word and you got it wrong, so you should certainly fail your course.

Re:Thank god you aren't an English major

[shoppa]

compliment vs complement

A good chunk of professors and lecturers get this wrong, along with discreet vs discrete. I'm not sure whether they do this out of true bad spelling or to watch those of us in the classroom familiar with inside jokes do our snickering :-).

There's already a good amount of snickering in a physics or math class already, what with phrases like angle of deviation and barrier penetration getting tossed around :-)

You really want a calculator

[tshoppa]

I think you really want a good scientific calculator. When I was in grad school something like a HP-48 met all your needs, and that was ten years ago. I'm not sure what's available now (I'm at a point in my career where everything is done either on the back of an envelope or on a supercomputer and there's very little middle ground), but I'm sure that something is. If worse comes to worse, buy an old HP-48!

Re:You really want a calculator

[dgmartin98]

Agreed. You need an HP-48. It's the standard calculator for engineering geeks. I've had mine for 12 years, and it still works fine, meets all my needs. You can program it, but in its own language.

For in-depth programming, get Matlab (my favorite), Maple, or Mathematica for a desktop/laptop PC. A PDA wouldn't be able to handle the power/speed requirements of any serious lenghty calculations. I have Matlab simulations constantly running in the background on this PC. (Yes, I'm in grad school too)

.Dave

Re:You really want a calculator

[Froze]

Hmmm, yes you are definately right about that. I have had an HP-48G since my first year, however it is a pain to enter text or anything other than algebraic mathematics. I was hoping for somthing like the eqn editer crossed with the handwritting recognition in most PDA's. Another poster further down has pointed out a GPL'd bit of software that I would love to see on a PDA.

You don't want a PDA

[fm6]

A good PDA is a deliberately limited gadget. Palm was the first company to realize this, and that's why they came to dominate the PDA market. A good PDA has a slow processor, because PDA users need battery life more than they new raw computing power. A good PDA has synchronization (Apple never did get this) so people can use their computers to manage their data, and just use the PDA to access the data, or perform minor updates, when the computer isn't available. A good PDA has a very small screen, so the system itself is small enough to slip into a pocket -- but too small for things like graphing or sketching.

If you want a portable scientific computing appliance, your only choice is a Linux-based laptop. (I guess Sparc or PowerPC is preferable to Pentium for this kind of computing, but it probably doesn't matter that much.) Yes, a cheap laptop is pretty heavy, but no worse than some of your heavier textbooks.

If I were in your shoes, I'd really, really want to get a copy of Mathematica. But if I were in your shoes, I couldn't afford it: $900 for an academic license! Sigh.

Zaurus -- ehh..

[nemui-chan]

I had a zaurus for a while and I really liked it for the most part. The problem I had with it that finally made me get rid of it and go back to palm is the complete lack of security as well as the lack of applications that you could get for the Zaurus. It really should have been in testing a bit longer. w

Re:Zaurus -- ehh..

[Enry]

Bah.

The ROM upgrade has fixed it, and porting apps to the Z (at least console apps) is dead easy. I'm not a developer, but I ported LPRng and a2ps to the Z in about 2 hours, and most of the time was spent figuring out what files I needed for the packages.

The base apps that come with the Z do need some work, but there are plenty of replacements that work pretty well.

HP48.

[molo]

You want a HP48 calculator. You will comply. Resistance is futile. RPN is godly.

Re:HP48.

[BetaJim]

I must concur. You do want a HP48 or HP49. I own a HP48G and it was essential in all of my engineering classes.

You can program it; RPN rocks and it is easy to do symbolic computations (even more easy on the HP49.) I even wrote a tar like program in RPN that uses the BZ compression program. Once your familiar with RPN, it becomes very easy and quick to preform calculations.

I can not stress enough that the HP48/49 are serious engineering tools.

Links

[PhysicsGenius]

(Thank god somebody modded me up so I could post a third time today. Stupid fascists.)

I forgot to mention that the link cables work fine under Linux. The calculator geeks can be found here and the Linux software to drive the cable and do the uploads/downloads (plus a GCC port, I think) can be found here

The Freehand Formula Entry System and DRACULAE

[t]

What ever you get, this to me is the ultimate system: ffes in a pda/ultra small laptop.

To the people who are suggesting some kind of calculator, please realize that mathematics does NOT equal +-*/=[0-9].

seven years? newbie! ha!

t.

Re:The Freehand Formula Entry System and DRACULAE

[TibbonZero]

Wow, that's a nice looking program. I remember trying to take notes in math class recently with my laptop (because I loose things that aren't on computer), well that didn't last long. It was just too hard to do, and my Phillips Nino didn't work so well for math either.
It would work well in an IBM Transnote or simalar I think ...

Re:The Freehand Formula Entry System and DRACULAE

[Froze]

Wow, yes, definately.
This is exactly the kind of info I was hoping to find by posting to slashdot, thanks. And yes, I consider myself a newbie in the academic world, and will continue to do so until I stop taking classes and start teaching them :-)

Palm

[Daftspaniel]

Palm has a good C compiler on-board in the form of PocketC from Orbworks, used with Mathlib it is quite powerful. Easy to learn and lots of features.

Where are you getting your license?

[secret_squirrel_99]

The student copy of Mathematica is functionally identical to the retail version and sells for $99.00 . Available at the bookstore of most any college or university

LyME

[sysadmn]

If you do decide on Palm OS based PDA, you have to look into Lyme, the lightweight math engine. It's a free as in beer matlab compatible package. It's well worth the 1 Mb it requires. From the homepage:

It implements more than 310 native commands, functions and operators, mostly compatible with Matlab, and 70 functions written in LME. It requires Palm OS 3.1 or higher and at least 1 MBytes of free memory.

Re:LyME

[Froze]

Thanks for the info, if I do indeed decide to try a palm device I will give this a whirl.

Re:LyME

[Anonymous Coward]

LyME is amazing.

It convinced me that PDAs can be more than calendar assistance, and that in the long run, are probably a better purchase than a calculator like a TI-x.

It really makes a PDA a powerful calculation platform.

I run mine on my Clie, by the way.

Nice bargain

[fm6]

The price I quoted was from the Wolfram web site. I'm guessing that your school got a hefty discount by buying in bulk. Hmm, maybe I'll go make friends with a student....

Re:Nice bargain

[Anonymous Coward]

I think mathematica has a student version, for poor students, and an expensive "Academic" version for everybody else in the university.

Other Vibrating uses?

[TibbonZero]

Hmm, well, I am a little scared at 'other' reasons he might want a portable vibrating device...

If you don't need "digital"

[Mignon]

I am looking for the most cost effective solution in a scientifically oriented PDA.

If you drop the "digital" requirement, every mad scientist needs a personal assistant. Preferably named Igor. Slavish, sniveling obedience required. Humpback optional.

www.handhelds.org

[nolansf0]

What could be better than linux on pocketpc? (well, BSD, but netbsd doesn't have Compaq/HP's dough)

Check out http://www.handhelds.org

I've played with this for about 6 months and can't for the life of me figure out why anyone is still running PalmOS or PocketPC...