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802.11b Urban Network - 3 sq km!
wireless junkie writes "NZ Herald has an article
about a 3 sq km wireless network. Roaming, seamless handoff, VoIP, and its only the demonstration network. 100 sq/km coming soon (according to the RoamAD site) MiniStumbler on an iPaq shows a whole heap of signal on and near downtown Queen Street. All I want for Christmas..."
what's a sq/km, square per kilometer? i don't get it
All I want for Christmas...
... is a wireless network with absolutely no security so people can walk within a 3km diameter space and just hack in on a whim?
Did it go the same way as fusion energy or what. Just hypes.
Do we now need to institute a no pr0n surfing while driving law?
I wear pants.
That's a lot of Pringles cans. Do they even sell Pringles in New Zealand?
the major advances in civilization are processes which all but wreck the societies in which they occur - A.N. White
I wish you programming fucknuts figure out how to use units... we've lost a lot of expensive space equipment because dumb software engineers.
km^2 (square kilometers) != sq/km (square/kilometer)
And if only the slashdot editors would... shit, i'm preaching to the choir, aren't I.
I can see pop ups advertising nearby businesses. As you're walking down the street, your laptop beeps and says, "Big sale at Tutles, Girdles and Yo-Yos on your right...."
Anything you say will be held against you.
Don't you mean "sq km", or square kilometers? "sq/km" sounds like "squares per kilometer".
And the men who hold high places must be the ones who start
To mold a new reality... closer to the heart
This is great and all, and by all means, more power to him. But i leave in the middle of a corn field about 10 miles from anything. I really just want to get cable. Highspeed internet is only a dream to me. I guess thats why i go to college...
Mikey
I've always been the kinda guy to fall for the girl dressed like an eskimo.
bring on the goatse jokes.
what kind of unit is a sq/km?
seriously now...this sounds kind of neat. cellular WiFi in a sense.
i wonder what kind of interference it would cause to other devices on the same frequency (other WiFI devices not associated with their network, cordless phones, etc).
and wouldn't this make drive by hacking easier? heck, you don't even need to drive by.
I wonder how bandwidth changes with distance from the transmitters.
"For I am a Bear of Very Little Brain, and Long Words Bother Me"
I'm wondering if a public networking system is really worth the risk. By offering a public service, you simple open so many problems caused by unadept users, malicous users, and abuse. Broadband is an excellent tool to be used, however the nightmare of getting everyone hooked up correctly, not to mention managing to keep those users connected must be a nightmare.
By offering it as a wide user base, it allows a malicous user to have a network of people to choose from. Due to the general publics disregard of security, updates and firewalls, this make them sitting ducks to becoming pawns for a Denial of service attack. How long would it be before hackers have a huge network of computers to do their bidding, by simply making a few stokes of the pen on his PDA?
My ignorance is a perfect shield against your logic.
Dear Honey, .
I hope you can drop off the kids I won't be able to make it home . .
"GIVE ME MY LAPTOP BACK!!!"
Almost reaches my apartment.
http://www.roamad.com/roam_home_demo.html
..he just LOVES shared medium.
1)Today, Wifi Zealot wants to test his new ultra wide wifi 2
2)Wifi Zealot heads for his local $tarbuck$
3)Unfortunately, the connection has to be shared with 120 Mac Biggots, 120 Linux Zealots and 200 fat MSCE neighbours
4)Linux Zealot explains WiFi Zealot that after all 75bPs is pretty 7331 and just enough for surfing gopher.
--
moderators : Linux Zealot is a linux zealot who appears frequently on adequacy
Recently I investigated GPRS availability where I live.
I can switch to a GSM network (Rogers/AT&T is rolling out GSM as we speak) and get 53kbps of always-on internet. Not fantastic, but not bad.
Unfortunatly they charge per Kilobyte. Yes. You heard me, Per Kilobyte. Even a few cents per K it adds up quick and becomes pointless.
Ok, so check out another provider. Ok, GSM/GPRS service as well. Always on, blah blah, $50/month unlimited. Ok, good deal. fine print: for 12 months. After that, who knows? They revert to their regular rates(?), which aren't any better than Roger/AT&T.
Ok, so how about CDCP? Hmm, about $50/month but it's 19200 Maximum. They add compression, but that won't solve the whole speed issue. And of course, only works with appriopriate modem, dead end technology, etc.
No wonder these companies can't recover costs... nobody will pay the rates they want.
Considering the availability of huge fucking 3G networks. Highspeed wireless shit that is available in even towns less than 120,000 population.
Please leave as soon as possible.
This is good news. I have really been missing the BBS times! Now that these wireless unlicensed spectrum miracles keep pouring in, we wil soon be in the position to have enough users to drop down the bandwidth to effectively emulate the Hayes Micromodem 100. Excellent!
It's more of a circle, with a sort of flange on one end and a type of, well, thing on the other... with a cut out in the middle in the shape of a gazelle.
That what was all this school was for... to teach us how to solve our own problems. -- janeowit
Why is this even news? Wireless internet access that you have to pay for? Hasn't that been around for a while. There's also been free wireless internet access in other cities for a while, here's one in NYC http://www.nycwireless.net I haven't gone down there with my laptop and wireless network card yet but I'm sure it's probably very fast. Although you probably can't do anything fun (like share warez) because they would probably block certain ports (or wonder what this one person is using all the bandwidth for.) The NYC Wireless site has links to other places for free wireless internet access also. There's also people who just setup there own wireless internet access for the block or neighborhood. Letting everyone share there connection, for free. I guess it's news because it's going to be 100sq km, but I can drive across Manhatten and stay online the whole time, there are some huge wireless networks available already.
I have heard that per capita there are more beautiful women than men in New Zealand than any other country in the world, and most of the men there are only interested in sheep, making the likelyhood of beautiful women being interested in you even better.
come on down mate we will throw a roo on the barbie and play digeridoos till the sun comes up over Aires rock New Zealand is a wonderful place and has a great climate if you like having winter in july mate, we can listen to men at work recordings while drinking Fosters
> Is it a nice place to live?
NZ is a nice plae to live *IF* you want to bring up your kids here or retire due to the compartively good education system & low crime rate.
It is not a good place to live if you want to earn money as for eveey US$1 you get ~NZ0.50-0.40 cents which makes buying geek things from the US very expensive (the average salary is ~35k).
But if you get paid at a US rate and in US $ then you're pretty much set.
try http://jerakeen.org for some porper Lunix-righteous fun.
you read it here first!
It is a great place to live. I am an American and I went to school there for a semester. I can't wait to go back! It is a beautiful place with great people.
And for those morons that think it is Australia, it is not too similar... It is 1500 miles away and much more like England.
Hell, you could insert just about anything there!
example.org - powered by Linux!
To all you morons complaining (in almost every thread currently) that sq/km is not a measurement of area, you're right.
The problem is (and i've seen 4 of these already) that you're defining it as a count of something per unit of area.
A km is NOT a unit of area measurement, it is a unit of linear measurement... Single mono-dimensional geometry here people. I know you USians have trouble with the metric system, but c'mon... not being able to tell the difference between a square kilometre and a kilometre is like not being able to tell the difference between an mile and a sqaure mile.
Quit complaining when you can't even get it right...
PS. I may have spelled kilometre wrong, depending on which spelling of the word you use (i.e. kilometer)
I'm sitting in that 3 sq km region right now (however I've got a wire connected to my PC allowing me to surf /. much faster than 330kbps!).
:-) I know quite a few Americans who have made the migration to NZ and don't want to leave. I've never lived in the States myself, but I believe the reason they like it so much down here is that NZ's a very relaxed and beautiful country (and a great place to raise a family).
Anyway - it's a great place to live
I'd recommend New Zealand to anyone - especially Wellington - Wellington rocks.
OK, that was pretty funny. I'll admit it, but I'm not willing to burn karma to say so...
Good job, my friend.
Seriously, this is very basic.
Yea, until Starbucks decides to crash the network with its own pay service on the same band.
I wish I had mod points... (ok i disabled moderation so there's no way...)
/. to think that everybody knows every nerdy acronym... I am always looking them up on everything2.com
Anyway this is so
And they don't seem to progress at all
Listen you, damn editors: You'll get my subscription over my dead body!!!!!
I live in a big city, Chicago. For me it does not seem that the last mile is problem for high speed internet access, but rather the last few hundred feet. Luckily I have DSL, but I know that it isn't going to get much faster for a while.
During the last few years cable companies and the like spent a lot of money laying the backbone of their networks. In the city the last part was getting old buildings wired. This to me seems like a bigger expense.
A you have to interact with the customer a lot. Schedule times, get access to the building, etc. Then somehow wire the thing.
I think an easier solution would be for these high speed providers to hook up key buildings in neighboor hoods with good wireless equipment. Then ship the modems in the mail to the customer and they are all set to go.
Eventaully we need to start fiber or at least cat 5 through these building. Or rather run piping so re-wiring in the future isn't such a problem, time for new building codes.
For rural customers, I would think a chain approach might be the best. House 1 is hooked up high speed and then relays to the next and so on and so on. Of course being on the end of the chain is no fun, but it might be faster then dialup.
IMHO
but if you disagree, feel free to ignore me.
So does this network support 3 old-fashioned adults per km or require 3 old-fashioned adults per km?
Im not here now... Im out KILLING pepperoni
http://www.immigration.govt.nz/migration/index.htm l
Score your chance to migrate to New Zealand. If you have IT experience and a degree, you're pretty much in.
the major advances in civilization are processes which all but wreck the societies in which they occur - A.N. White
Umm. It says urban not an urabon.
I dislike the fact that this seems to be little more than advertising promo echoed by slashdot. I have no interest in deploying a proprietary extension to 802.11b when folks like NoCat.net, nyc wireless, personal telco, and so on are all trying to provide wide area access within the 802.11b published standard. I'd think the Ciscos and Linksyses of the world would be more interested in solving the multihop networking problems within the 802.11b standard and open the results up for others to use, so that they can sell more radios.
In my opinion, any company that sells a proprietary extension to a standard will most likely fail, esp. when the standard is free (free spectrum, free implementations, just buy the radio). After all, there are plenty of better, proprietary networking standards, but we all use TCP/IP.
Pretty soon people will be able to set up a CityNet: imagine everybody gathering together on a common IP subnet just like your home LAN except that it's multiple people who show up anonymously by simply setting their IP to within a particular submask.
This has got to be the RIAA absolute worst nightmare. With the Internet if you set up a service that an anonymous person can find and download files from, then so can they and they send you a C&D letter. With multi-user anonymous LANs, not only would they have to have a presense in each city, but even if they do, once they know that IP 198.168.31.331 is trading the whole Metallica collection, they have no way to track you down.
Medium range wireless offers an opportunity to remove, at least locally, the last barrier to a truly free internet : corporate/government regulation of the backbone.
You are mostly right about the price of imported things but for normal living expenses, forget about the exchange rate. A kiwi dollar in NZ buys you about the same as a US dollar buys you in the US.
... it sounded like a good idea at the time :-(
I wonder of people think about exchange rates more frequently when the unit of currency uses the same word.
I'm a kiwi who was foolish enough to move to the US. Well
Netstumbler + 802.11b = Internet access in most every location.
I know a rep from a computer company who just came from Boston down to our office in Connecticut to advertise some of his latest line. He always has his Netstumbler w/GPS running on the road, and when someone calls him, he just looks at NetStumbler to see where the nearest access point he has previously passed is, and heads there... the just pulls over, hops on their network, and uses his VPN connection to do the rest. He said the farthest he usually has to travel on the MassPike to find a hotspot is 10 minutes away. Not much along the 395 corridor yet, though.
Granted, these are corporate networks that aren't using WEP, and ethically he SHOULDN'T be getting on their networks.
Now if something like an ISP or maybe a company like this one in New Zealand were offering similar service for mobile users like him, or if the cell companies would quit advertising 3G and actually IMPLEMENT it for mobile users to use with laptops in this area and at a reasonable price (say, all the Internet you can browse for $49.95/month), then there wouldn't be any ethical issues.
No way.. my portable phone is way better
It works from here to past the 7-11 :)
I'm never going to achieve Nirvana with my Karma
legally. It's criminal, completely. Theft of services.
It's not cool, it's sleazy. Especially for a professional.
Our wireless network has 35km range from our central tower....
NewGenWireless.net
P.S., We setup other ISP networks too.
For those of you old enough, remember when it seemed like every town (even the small ones) had at least one BBS to dial into, and inter-node email through FIDOnet at night (long distance rates being cheaper)? Couldn't something similar to this be done with WiFi? Hear me out:
Imagine if every individual set up a WiFi hub node, with some kind of high-gain omni, and kept it open. This hub is connected to a web server - and NOTHING ELSE. It isn't connected to broadband, or even to the individuals home network (or only through a good firewall). Basically, it is a lone machine.
Others set up similar machines, people in the immediate neighborhood (both fixed and mobile stumblers) could "connect" at leisure, just like the old BBS's - except without needing major numbers of phone lines, etc. Maybe the website on the server could show how to build such a system cheaply, where other nodes are, and where intermediate nodes are needed to bridge gaps in an area. These nodes could then form a more "permanent" mesh.
Ok, perhaps this is what is basically happenning already - but what many of them do is have broadband connections that aren't legally allowed to share. I guess what I am aiming for is more of a return to the grassroots local scene, and perhaps certain nodes could be "volunteers" to "FIDOnet" (just the term - not actual protocols, of course) packages of emails, etc, across the internet via broadband/etc connections in bursts, to other nodes that could disseminate the contents of the package. IE, make it as legal as possible - but still "open/free"?
Reason is the Path to God - Anon
Actually average salary is ~US$12500, compared to US$35000 in the US. As you can imagine, this makes imported goods relatively expensive (going by average earnings).
Sigh. I'm in the top 20% of NZ earners and I earn (a lot) less than an 'average' American.
And the weather is terrible in Wellington...is there no end to the indignities??!! Time to move to Europe...
More like England? Did they lock you in an isolation tank while you were studying in NZ? I think you should come again and pay attention next time.
Yes, and we can walk across the bridge from Auckland to Sydney too.
Move a wee bit to the south-east on your map and you'd be better set.
shouldn't it be 802.11 UBER network?
--fetch daddy's blue fright wig, i must be handsome when i release my rage
First Citylink, now this, it seems that New Zealand totally rocks...
Keep in mind that the average coder will be making just a bit over average in NZ while in the US the average coder is making twice to three times the average. A Kiwi coder may be making US$20,000/yr while the US one could be getting $75,000. That makes buing stuff from Think Geek very expensive.
It's very rare to see a Slashdot post about an event far away without hearing from an on-site participant. The press release went out about this new service down in Kiwi-ville, and some of the specs they describe seem, well, a little difficult to swallow as they exceed some of the physics and technology that major manufacturers are employing.
Any Kiwis read Slashdot and can confirm coverage? Or is this Slashdot-by-press-release?
Freelance tech journalist for the Economist, MIT Technology Review, Macworld, and others
For you Linux users out there, who can't run NetStumbler, check out Kismet.
I've never ran NetStumbler, but it finds access points, has GPS support, makes maps, and will run on Linux PDA's (iPAQ, Zaurus).
I sense the bumper sticker: "Log Off and Drive."
--
Best thing about this place is that investors are so keen to jump on the technology bandwagon that they will happily throw $4m at yet another wi-fi company in New Zealand that has adopted the "build it and they will come" attitude. We've had a few fail before, and I can't see this one lasting more than 2 years before they realise people aren't going to be walking around with their laptops on the street, many buildings on that street use WLANS, if they're not using FSSS equipment they're in serious trouble from another crowd in there, but most importantly, it's just too expensive.
RoamAD has succeeded in extending and enhancing the utility and performance of 802.11b, while maintaining its integrity and compatibility with the 802.11b standard being built into millions of mobile devices around the world.
Uhh, there's nothing "proprietary" about any of this. It works with all the little WiFi devices we already have. These geniuses just built a backbone to connect all their "multipoint" WiFi access points together. Whoopee.
"I assumed blithely that there were no elves out there in the darkness"
Knowing one of the guys setting this up this is old hat to me, hell my apartment building has one of the receivers on it =).
All I can say is dam its going to cost a tone, full speed DSL costs $50 (US) for 1Gb and $500 for 10Gb. For a western country the prices for internet are very high.
As for security, I wonder how many people know about the guys driving round in the middle of the night with a laptop and high frequency aerials having fun on the network =). I seen them often, I aint using that network I can tell you.
The Illinois Dept. of Transportation until recently had many 802.11b access points at construction sites, open to the world, with DHCP going and everything. One of those in my area far exceeded that size...
Possibly I missed the point completely.
$75,000!?!? When the bubble burst I had to go down from my $130K salary to a meager $100K. Is it possible to survive on $75K?
it's a pity those 3km (in my city of auckland) are only safe for geeks with laptops during business hours.. i pity the fool who sits down on a fridays night on queen st with a laptop and expects to be carrying it home in the morning.
Trollburger.
US is one of the latest country not to use meter system ... but when using it please use it as expected !
;-)
So put km and not sq km (which is quite awfull).
Anyway this is a quite interresting post
-4R34
km^2 = kilometers squared
sq/km = square kilometers
2 km^2 = 4 square kilometers.
The square/km is a measure used to figure out how many kilts, one can make out of a length of cloth.
We do not live in the 21st century. We live in the 20 second century.
What about those of us trying to set up FREE networks on the same band... Do we just get told hard luck? Commercial operators should have to use a commercial band, one that they pay for.
Ahem...
Vixen was the greatest broad band ever! Well, greatest since the Go Go's. Don't even bring up Nelson, they were crap.