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Palm Offers Refund to m130 Owners

Posted by CowboyNeal on from the trading-colors-for-games dept.

EyesWideOpen writes "On Wednesday Palm began notifying registered m130 owners "that they were entitled to a full refund, including taxes paid on the PDA" for misleading them about the actual number of colors the product supports. The m130 was originally advertised as supporting 65,536 colors when in actuality it can only display 58,621. Owners who choose to forfeit the refund and keep the PDA could instead download a free version of the video game SimCity." Looks like a great deal for those who don't care about the bit depth of their PDA, and a way out for those who do.

15 of 222 comments (clear)

  1. 64K on colours on a 160x160 screen. by MavEtJu · · Score: 5, Funny

    I would be shocked too if I would find out that I can't display all 65536 colours on a screen with 25600 pixels!

    --
    bash$ :(){ :|:&};:
  2. But I've already got a PortaPam! by EvilAlien · · Score: 5, Funny
    What would I want SimCity for?

    "We lied to you, so here is a refund... oh, you like the product anyways? Well is is a crappy game for free. Oh, you already subscribe to alt.warez? Well... here... um. *click*"

    --
    perl -e 'print $i=pack(c5, (41*2), sqrt(7056), (unpack(c,H)-2), oct(115), 10)'
    1. Re:But I've already got a PortaPam! by unicron · · Score: 5, Funny

      No, warezing is fine. It's when you think that warezing is a political statement that it gets lame and unacceptable. Here's an example:

      "I pirated this because I'd rather spend my 20 bucks on hookers and blow." --ACCEPTABLE

      "I pirated this because everytime I download warez the DMCA becomes my bitch!" --UNACCEPTABLE(But this mode of thinking automatically grants superuser access on /.)

      --
      Finally, math books without any of that base 6 crap in them.
    2. Re:But I've already got a PortaPam! by Bilestoad · · Score: 4, Funny

      But when you spend more than two hours searching for a $20 program you tell the world:

      "Hey, my time is worth less than $10 an hour! Does anyone know of an opening at Jiffy Lube?" --PITIABLE

  3. Actually, by shepd · · Score: 5, Informative

    Its not even 58k colours for real. That's simluated from the hardware limited 12-bit (4k) colour depth. (Or at least that's what TechTV sez).

    Palm users were really ripped off, IMHO.

    --
    If you could be told what you can see or read, then it follows that you could be told what to say or think - BoC
    1. Re:Actually, by shepd · · Score: 5, Informative

      Okay, I know quite a bit about how LCDs and CRTs use separate colour pixes and simulate the real colour.

      I learned a LOT about the lies of LCD resolutions when I was shopping for a VR/Television headset (that I never bought because _no one_ had them for show in the Kitchener-Waterloo area, except for a barely pre-beta-production pair at the Sony shop that were priced exorbitantly).

      Non-consumer LCD specs are rated at their monochrome specifications, that is to say they are rated at 3x their resolution with no colour guarantees (because that's the job of the controller, not the LCD).

      Consumer LCD specs are rated at their full colour specifications whenever they mention "colours" in the same line. For example, "Displays 160x160 resolution at 16-bit colour". However, if colours are *not* listed on the same line, its fair game to say its a 480x180 pixel display, _but_ on a fully fledged consumer device one would have to back that up with OS support for a fake monochome display using the separate colour pixels (which Palm does _not_ have).

      Now, as far as raw CRTs and raw LCDs actually having bit depths associated with them, this is false. As the raw pixels on LCDs and the minimum size points formed by the shadow mask CRTs are purely analog in nature, you cannot state a bit depth for them. You are only limited by what the controller can do for an LCD, and with a CRT you are unlimited (unless the designer of the controller was on LSD at the time).

      Anyways, since you seem so interested in learning how all this works (as you asked me to look it up for you, but I don't need to, since I learned all this in the few EET courses I passed handily) I'll explain why all this is to you. What a nice guy I am, huh?

      Okay, lets start with CRTs. These are complicated little beasties when you get into colour, so lets start with monochrome.

      The tube you are looking at right now is evacuated of all air. In the rear of it is a heating element, which causes a material in front of it to emit electrons. The amount of electrons emitted is controlled by a control grid in front of this material. This is what allows us to control the intensity, or brightness of the beam. This is controlled through voltage, and therefore is completely analog unless you choose to hook it up to a digital controller. After the beam is attenuated by the control grid, it then passes by "yokes", or electromagnetic coils in a standard CRT, or for an oscilloscope CRT, these are deflection plates. In either case, a voltage is applied to these. A higher voltage moves the electon beam away from that yoke/plate, however a lower voltage does not move it closer (this is why a TV requires at least a 4-way yoke, or 4 deflection plates). Moving the beam causes a spot on the phospor covered, lead impregnated part of the screen you see to light up (it actually excites the phosphor and causes it to emit light waves and x-rays rather than electrons). X-Rays (which are mostly of the soft form anyways) are curtailed by the lead, and the lead is grouned to remove the resulting electrical charge caused by all this electronic conversion away from the screen. Not to mention it keeps the EXTREMELY high voltage used called the "screen" from killing you. Beats me what this was about, nobody ever explained it (could that just be part of why I failed out of EET? :-)

      Now we can see if this beam is moved about the screen it will create points of light all over. P22 phospor (which is what is used in starndard computer monitors) does not instantly stop emitting light when charged and, knowing this, we can use it to our advantage and move the beam quickly enough about the screen to keep the entire screen bright.

      Now, modulating the yoke and control grid we can produce a picture. NTSC combines all this into one signal (bad). Fortunately, VGA does not, and is still completely analog (and could display google bit colour, if you so desired). VGA uses separate vertical and horizontal deflection signals, and also has separate voltage controls for the different colours red, green and blue (which we're about to get to).

      A shadow mask placed behind the phospor on a screen allows the three beams integrated into a colour monitor to selectively hit various coloured phosphors on a computer screen. Basically, I really don't want to go into this anymore, because again, computer monitors are NOT my expertise.

      So, as you can see, I've proven CRTs are purely analog, and therefore can display an infinite range of colour (disproving your bit-based theory of CRT colour).

      Now to disprove your bit-based theory of LCDs.

      LCDs are far more simple than CRTs. A fluid inside an LCD can be polarized at various angles with an applied voltage. The voltage directly controls the angle, and is completely analog. A polarized lense is placed either behind or infront of the LCD. A standard LCD (such as the one in a digital watch) has a mirror behind it which light bounces from when it strikes the LCD.

      When a 90 degree twist is applied to the LCD is causes the display to be totally black, because it is a completely perpendicular angle to the polarized glass in front or behind it. If enough voltage to cause a 39.37837 degree twist to be placed on the LCD element, it will show up as a shade of grey, and that shade of grey is different than one at 39.28374 degrees.

      When a Red, Green, and Blue colour filter is applied to these elements, you get a colour display, at the cost of requiring three times as many pixels. The display is still analog, and can display an infinite amount of colours, only limited by the controller attached to it.

      HTH!

      --
      If you could be told what you can see or read, then it follows that you could be told what to say or think - BoC
  4. Re:Woo Classic Maxis! by BagOBones · · Score: 4, Informative

    The only site I ever needed to Palm software.
    http://www.pilotgear.com/
    Just do a search for Simcity in the software section

    --
    EA David Gardner -"... but the consumers have proven that actually what they want is fun."
  5. Re:is this really a big deal? by Target+Drone · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Would you return your pda because it only displays 58000 colours instead of 65000?

    Would you return your Pentium because it does almost all divisions correctly?

    Like the Pentium bug this isn't a cases of whether users will notice a difference. It's about a company owning up to its mistakes.

  6. Re:is this really a big deal? by Osty · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Would you return your pda because it only displays 58000 colours instead of 65000? I mean, unless you are doing photo editing on it, it doesn't really matter. Besides, not having to display the extra 7000 colours saves energy.

    The problem is not that it can display only "58000" colors, but that it can really only display 4000 colors. That 58,000 number is arrived at by "using a variety of techniques--including turning pixels on and off and combining nearby pixels." (News.com article) So yeah, if Palm advertised that the m130 could display 65536 (16bpp) and it can only do 4096 (12bpp), then I would be complaining. HP had the same problem with earlier Jornadas they released, because they advertised 16bpp and only supported 12bpp (the crazy thing here is that they call the problem a "glitch", when it's a simple fact that the screens they used only supported 12bpp -- sounds like a glitch in the manufacturing process by choosing to use a cheaper screen). Compaq didn't have this problem, because they always advertised at 12bpp, not 16bpp.


    In other words, the issue here isn't that the PDA can only do 12bpp, but that Palm advertised it at 16bpp and was caught out in their lie.

  7. Thats ok... by dr_dank · · Score: 5, Funny

    I'll just wait for them to send me the extra 6,915 colors in the mail.

    --
    Where does the school board find them and why do they keep sending them to ME?
  8. Re:Does it make a big difference to people? by RatBastard · · Score: 5, Informative

    Actually, yes. Paml M130's generate 58,000 colors through some sort of dithering or pixel strobing technique. The display can only generate 4096 actuall colors. The problem is that this makes for really crappy images and, more to the point, is a flat-out lie.

    The REAL point of contention is not the number of colors, but the fact that Palm Inc. lied to its customers.

    --
    Boobies never hurt anyone. - Sherry Glaser.
  9. Free SimCity!!! Awesome!!! by Andre060 · · Score: 5, Funny

    Unless you live in Greece... ;-)

  10. Re:I'm feeling some hostility here by topham · · Score: 4, Insightful


    The 12bit colour isn't a PALLET of 16.7 million (or 65K) with only 4096 displayed at a time.

    It's only 4096 colours total. You don't get to choose which colours are in the pallet.

    You get 16 shades of red, 16 shades of green and 16 shades of blue. You get to mix them as well, but thats it.

    So, yeah, even though there are only 25,600 pixels on the screen you could still display an image, via scrolling with the full 65K colours. Now your left we fudge tricks to get the same colour range.

    I think this move by Palm is a good move though.
    Many people are probably more than happy with the display.

  11. 58,621 colors? by Alsee · · Score: 4, Insightful

    If they want to say it has 58,621 colors then they have to say the screen isn't 160x160 anymore, it's 80x160 or 80x80. The only way to get the 58,621 colors is by DITHERING which kills your resolution.

    -

    --
    - - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.
  12. they're doing the right thing by brad3378 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I can respect a company that can admit it screwed up.
    This is going to cost them tons of money, but unlike the actions other companies, Palm may have just earned my trust.

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