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Laptop Travel Damage - Who's at Fault?
Denagoth asks: "Due to increased security measures, airport personnel are now directly handling everyone's laptop, PDA, and other electronic gizmos. Who is at fault when (not if - but I've been lucky) an airport employee drops, damages, (or even worse) loses one of these devices? Has anyone had any experience in this area and are there any legal precedents to fall back on?"
its obviously the terrorists fault..
imagine a beowulf cluster of broken laptops.. running linux!
But seriously, Completecare would cover this. Man, I hate that guy ...
*Security guard drops laptop and laptop shatters*
Dan Rather: "The terrorists have already won."
Why worry about laptop damage when you might end up like this?
It's yours. You are a threat to everyone and yourself.
Ask for a receipt _each_ time someone touches your valuables, computer or otherwise. Or ask that the manager oversee the process. Print up a bunch of "this laptop was in working order when handed to _________________ on the ____________ date". Initials and a date would probably help some. They are inconviencing you in the name of security. You should be able to protect your security as well.
Pair up in threes. - Yogi Berra
don't ask legal questions of people who get in fights over brower preference.
They are probably liable. If you put the machine into their hands, there is essentially a bailment. They agree to take reasonable care and not damage your stuff.
Now, there are probably all sorts of signs and regulations that disavow their responsibility. This is bullshit. Chances are that even a complete laptop replacement will fall under the statute of limitations on small claims where you are. A suit filed there, against the company, the airline, the employee (all at the same time. Important) should be taken care of quickly. If it even gets that far.
If something happens, I suggest asking to speak to a manager, and asking what kind of 'incident report form' they have to fill out.
You are, of course, having your computer shit hand checked, not run through the x-ray, right? If you put stuff on the x-ray belt, you're going to be liable, most likely. Yet another reason to request a hand check in the unlikely chance you don't get one.
Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. -John Lennon
While the security people are still owned and run by the airlines, I would guess that the standard disclaimer on the back of your ticket states what happens with damaged goods, and how much the airline is liable for. When they are fully converted over to Federal employees who knows what will happen.
The argument "we must search you because you might have a bomb/gun/dildo" is a valid statement for any person, anywhere, any time, under any circumstances. It was also true at the time the constitution was written. Nonetheless, we have the 4th Ammendment.
Perhaps the solution is not in searching every person, everwhere, all the time, under all circumstances, but to address why we have created an entire subcontinent that wants us dead.
-- Bob
1^2=1; (-1)^2=1; 1^2=(-1)^2; 1=-1; 1=0.
I just called our insurance agent today regarding this - schedule laptops with a minimal deductible. The rate for us was about $.75 / $100 value / year, covering loss, theft, or basically anything else that removes my ability to make use of it. This is by adding it to my folk's current homeowner's insurance plan.
You'll need the standard stuff - receipts, serial numbers, and all that jazz.
I'm flying tomorrow (today), and I am truly not looking forward to going through security with both my powerbook and two hard drives as well.
... that's all i wrote...
The chances of anthing dreadfull happening to your toys due to employee bungeling is so remote as to be laughable. Especially considering the very real possiblinty of having your expensive toys stolen by a somebody who isen't an emoloyee. Worry about that.
Now to protect yourself from theft: Disguise. Buy a shitty looking backpack and use it to store your electronic goodies. Inside my backpack is a digital camera, Iridium phone, cell phone, laptop, noise canceling head-phones, Psion, MP3 player and possibly a GameBoy. A fine catch for any theif - and yet I draw hardly a glance. The stupid executive type with his six year old trackball Toshiba in a old "leatherette" Compaq case is just begging for a stealin'.
If you're really paranoid - grab a Thinkpad with a quick-removable hard-drive and carry the drive in your pocket. Data is far more valuable the money. My output during my travels is small enough to fit on a 128MB SmartMedia card that slips into my wallet.
Oh, bring a pack of cards. You woulden't want to smash your laptop during turbulance by playing solitare on it and letting if fall to the ground when then plane jumps up 3 feet and you forgot to buckle your seatbelt.
Moneyed corporations, non-working 'poor' and criminal prisoners are turning productive citizens into tax-slaves.
Do you hire a law firm to fix your computer?
When I was travelling to Darmstadt rigth after 9/11, my hand luggage was searched. Inside was, among other things, an electric razer. Brute security-guard looks at it, tries opening it, but ends up instead breaking it apart. I'm told to report the damage to their "arrival office" upon arrival.
Office says it must have been badly packed. I inform them that I *saw* the guy literally breaking it apart and that the packaging doesn't really play a part. They then claim electronic devices are not covered. There's nothhing "electronic" about it I say, sure it uses electricity but there's a difference between electric and electronic. And in any case, what *should* I bring for shaving, you don't particularily like razer-blades now do you ? And are you telling me I can stand and watch one of your employees break my things apart, and then you will claim that I have to cover the loss myself ?
In the end they paid for it, but not without making a lof of unneeded fuzz about it.
However, when you enter an Arab Country (alongside the Persian Gulf), don't be surprised when the security guys even format your harddisk to be sure you don't have any porn on it.
It has never happened to me, but I got the advise from a guy who's been there to put all your favourite data on a Zip disk or a CD-ROM
I travel *a lot* and no one ever touches my stuff. I put it into the machine and I pick it up on the other side. If I get pulled aside, I'm the one that is asked to turn on devices and prove that they are not explosive devices. Which, of course, doesn't mean that if I can make it boot, I can't make it explode. This is also true for Europe, though I find this isn't always the case in Japan for what its worth.
If you take your laptop (or anything, really) into an environment where you suspect they might become damaged, then you are the one to blame if they do become damaged.
None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free. Johann Wolfgang von Goethe.
Get a Toughbook from Panasonic. By far the best laptop I've ever had, and it changes the way you interact with your laptop. No longer do you coddle it, and worry about it getting damaged at all times. Now you can use it as a coaster, or to stop subway doors from closing. Battle your friends that have toughbooks also, in hand-to-hand toughbook battles. I have the CF-17, which you can pickup used on Ebay for about $400, but they have tons of other models also, new and used.
I once had a nice 25MHz 486DX TI TravelMate (Gateway branded) from the first laptop generation with tolerable hard drive capacity (120MB). On full power conservation, I could edit files within my text editor for nearly five hours on one charge (if I didn't save often).
Eventually the wires to the display became stretched through the hinge. The screen would go funny if you opened it up too far.
I took it through the airport once in Halifax where I had to open it up and show that it worked. I opened it up just past 90 degrees (the safe range) and then the security woman there grabbed the panel cranking it open all the way the final stop (nearly 135 degrees). I was actually holding the system in the air at the time with my hands so she could see it better. I'm 6'5" and I doubt she was ten cents over 5'0". Did she really need to break it's back just to see that there was text on the screen? Fragile? Let me adjust it!
That was an aggravating repair. Half a day running around Vancouver to find the replacement part, $90 for a thin wire bundle 12" long, and another half a day to thread the cable myself while not losing too many microscrews along the way.
I'd like to think that agent is now working at a poultry processing plant breaking limbs off of chickens with her bare hands.
That's the great thing about the federal government-- they have ultimate authority with no responsibility.
So, not only do we get LESS security in airports now that they are bringing in their DMV level idiots to handle everyone's stuff, but we have no recourse when they drop your laptop.
I've had mine dropped by a dipthong in Tulsa Oklahoma. I got upset and he got irate at me that I could be upset that he dropped my laptop! I almost decked him. If he'd said, "I'm sorry! It slipped, is it ok?" I would have not cared, but instead he was telling me to hurry up as I bent down to pick up my laptop.
Anyway, I would go after the airport. If you have damage go to the manager of the airport and take it up with them . Airports, despite being oppressed by the feds, are generally a business, even if they too are a local municipalities business. So, their guy is likely to be at least a bit concerned about market forces and try to make it right.
This is only going to get worse. After all, it was the federal government that was responsible for the poor security that lead to 9/11, and their response has been to totally take over airport security (Rather than just meddling to make it useless). The correct response would be to let each airline be responsible for its OWN security-- nobody has an interest in keeping their multimillion dollar planes intact while still providing customer service like an airline. Furthermore, with them responsible for security on their flights if something DID happen they would be facing a lawsuit-- and so they have motivation to provide good security.
With the federal government, their only motivation is power and re-electability. so if they can make noise like they are doing something bout it, and the country is mollified and at the same time get more power over us (hoe long until these weapons searches become drug searches as well?) then they are happy. And so many of you are bedwetting liberals and christian conservatives that you love the government and want it to take over your lives completely... so we have the feds--responsible for the initial failure on 9/11-- taking over the area that could prevent it. And nobody is holding them accountable.
As long as you don't hold your government accountable, you get what you deserve.
The horror stories are regular-- there's the guy who had his yacht seized by the coast guard because one of their dogs barked *once* during a boarding. They seized the yacht, tore it apart, couldn't find anything. So they decided that the fiberglass hull must be made out of cocaine (which is inane- the process would be more expensive than the value of the cocaine.) And thus they drilled 80,000 holes in the hull looking for cocaine. They didn't find anything. They boat was ruined, the guy sued, he appealed all the way to the supreme court and the supreme court ruled that he didn't have a case.
Cause you can't sue the federal government.
You call this a democracy? Stop voting for Democrats and Republicans. Stop putting up with this incompetence and poor management. And to think- you're paying %50 of your income in total taxes* for the privilege!
If you aren't outraged, you aren't paying attention.
* Some bedwetting liberal always complains about this number pointing out that the highest tax bracket is "only" (yeah, they'd love it to be more) %35. Well, lets assume you're paying some average of %25 in federal taxes. On top of that you have %16 social security (your half and your employers half-- you don't think he doesn't make *you* earn his half of that cost do you?) another %14 for medicaide, another %8 for all the money you spend in local sales taxes (assuming %8 local sales tax, that you spend most of your money locally and pay taxes, and that you only invest a small amount of your money at the long term, netting a tax of %10 on that, rather than %25 for short term investing).... that leaves %63 of your income going to taxes. And I've not even counted car tab fees, property taxes, state or local income taxes!, GASOLINE taxes which are almost %50, etc. etc. So, saying %50 of your money goes to taxes is being generous.
Yeah, and you guys panned the ipod too: http://apple.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=01/10/23
Do you hire a law firm to fix your computer?
Yes. Questioning the constitutionality of MPAA-bought legislation in court would have an effect of "fixing my computer," would it not?
Will I retire or break 10K?
And in any case, what *should* I bring for shaving, you don't particularily like razer-blades now do you ?
(assuming "you" refers to the government) If you don't need to shave on the plane, then don't carry your razor kit on your person. Take a Gillette Mach 3 Turbo razor (for women, Gillette Venus), pack it in your suitcase, and then check your suitcase. But be sure to read the ticket (it's a contract, you know) and understand the lost luggage policy.
(assuming "you" refers to the owner of a face being shaved) For some reason, my Gillette Mach 3 Turbo razor gives a closer shave than my Norelco Reflex Action electric razor that I just bought new blades for.
Will I retire or break 10K?
That might also count as Free Speech. But only because the first amendment protects your right to demonstrate your ignorance and stupidity in public.
A dumb jackass [no, that's offencive to Mr Knoxville and anyone called Jack] I mean fucktard niceley demonstrates the way the media/government can controll peoples opinions.
So very few people will, when questioned, question the question. They will do as you did [like a good little tax lamb] and instinctiveley try to answer the question, rather than saying "Uh... Don't be so fucking dumb, most people don't hate Muslims, just the severeley dumb and disinformed minority!".
Ali
Ph33r m3!!!
it is funny! not interresting. Your death is interresting, not funny!
stupid moderators