Keeping Kids Interested in Math?

bcrowell asks: "As a geek, I always assumed my interest in math and science would just naturally rub off on my kids, and sure enough, my older daughter kept insisting that she wanted to be a physics teacher like me when she grew up. Now, starting first grade, she volunteers that math is 'ok,' but not as much fun as reading, and she no longer wants to be a physics teacher. Her math work at school apparently consists of 'addition packets.' What good stuff can I do to help her perceive math as fun and creative? Generations past had puzzles by Sam Lloyd. I learned a lot of science from science fiction books, but my old favorites are getting dated, and my daughter also rejects them because they have male protagonists -- she prefers Nancy Drew, although she'll read my Fantastic Four comics if Sue has a big enough part. What other things have Slashdotters found to do with their kids? Growing crystals? Baking together as a way to sneak in fractions?"

Comments

Erm... Well...

[Your_Mom]

Instead of wanting to mold your daughter into a math geek, why not just let her enjoy the things that she wants to do by herself? Instead of trying to turn her toward math, why don't you just continue to encourage her reading skills and just leave it at that?

Your Lucky enough to have a kid who actaully shows intrest in reading at all.

Re:Erm... Well...

[Dammital]

Yeah, I pretty much have to second that.

To my dismay, neither of my girls have ever shown the remotest interest in programming or tearing down our computers to see how they work. I've tried to show them what I do, but their eyes just sort of glaze over.

They are (sob) users. Couldn't live without their wordprocessors and browsers and stuff, but they don't care much about what makes them go.

Notwithstanding my inability to interest them in my livelihood, I guess I am doing some things right. My girls are both straight-A students, and one of them was class valedictorian this last year. They're interested in science, and are better mathematicians than I was at that age.

What am I doing? Pretty much treating them like adults; I never talk down to them, I explain my reasoning when I make a decision, and I have grown-up conversations with them. My cardinal rule is "No BS", for I know that if I ever lied to 'em, my credibility would be shot to hell.

As a result I have LOTS of cred, so I can mention a Slashdot article about quantum fluctuation over pizza. They listen, and maybe learn a little. I lob newspaper articles that I think are important or interesting into their laps. We have (mostly) intelligent discussions at home, talking about science news, current events, politics.

Treat your kids with respect. Retain your authority, but delegate a lot of responsibility. Take home some of the stuff you find interesting; it'll rub off in bits and pieces. But you shouldn't get hung up on one discipline; if it's all that interesting, your kids will let you know.

Re:Erm... Well...

[R2.0]

"Instead of wanting to mold your daughter into a math geek, why not just let her enjoy the things that she wants to do by herself? Instead of trying to turn her toward math, why don't you just continue to encourage her reading skills and just leave it at that? "

One reason to encourage math skills is that kids need encouragement to excel at the things they're NOT good at, not at the things they do well. True, his daughter may not turn out to be a math geek, but she should still be encouraged to learn math so that she doesn't prematurely foreclose her options in life. She may not WANT to be a computer programmer when she grows up, but without the math background, she CAN'T be one, even if she decides she wants to.

Another reason is to fight the culture that has Barbie going "Math is Hard!" Yeah, it is hard - so is living on welfare. For all the progress made, society still assumes "Math:boys::Language:girls" I'd encourage you to support his daughter in math the same way he should support his son in reading - because there are a lot of people fighting against you.

How? Help her with her homework. Be patient. Communicate with her teacher. Most of all, maintain your own interest - when kids are little, they want to be like their parents, so show her something to be like.

Re:Erm... Well...

[bcrowell]

why not just let her enjoy the things that she wants to do by herself?
Math and science used to be one of the things that she wanted to do by herself. I suspect that her teachers are making math seem so boring to her that they're actively discouraging her interest.

Your Lucky enough to have a kid who actaully shows intrest in reading at all.
I doubt that luck has much to do with it. We've been reading to her since she was a toddler. She watches videos maybe once a month, and TV never.

Instead of wanting to mold your daughter into a math geek[...]
I guess the way I phrased the description did make it sound like I was trying to make her wear pocket protectors and glasses that have been repaired with tape. But honestly, I'm not trying to produce a Mini-Me. She's the one who showed this early interest in math and science. And in any case, I don't think you should have to be a geek to enjoy math, any more than you should have to be a musician to enjoy music or a painter to enjoy art.

I think it's sad that so many people get taught to hate math by our educational system. I guess that's why it's considered OK to put down math and science, even though nobody would think it was cool to put down ballet or jazz or oil painting. We have a special word, "geek," used to put down people who like math and science. Why isn't there a word used to put down people who like to play the violin?

A common problem

[nelsonal]

Don't try make your kids cookie cutters of you! All parents seem to try to do this, and the extreme ones can have disasterous results like the kids feel like a failure, because they did not meet their folks expectations. Let your child grow up in their own way, if she likes reading, let her read. If she finds her own path through life, she is likely to be much happier than if she tries to follow Mom's or Dad's footsteps.

A happy geek who left engineering to do finance, and whose parents supported the whole way him even though one is an engineer.

Do you think it's all about environment?

[dmorin]

People don't like to talk about academic skills as nature vs. nurture. They hope that by tweaking the system appropriately, everybody will like every subject (well, more specifically, they want girls to like math. I'm not sure anybody's fighting the war to get more boys to take home ec.) I just don't think it's a guaranteed win. I honestly think that people have a natural affinity for certain things that, if nurtured, will grow accordingly. BUT, if said affinity is just not there in the first place, then manipulating the system all you want won't make it appear.

I applaud your efforts. I hope yuo get some good answers, because my first child, a daughter, is now 10 weeks old and I expect to be addressing the same issues you have in a few years. I'll admit that deep down I was heartbroken at the thought my daughter wouldn't simply follow in my geeky footsteps. However, I'm quite happy to imagine her following in the footsteps of my wife, who is in the medical field, and really has a whole different set of skills than I do.

In short, please don't try to force her, or naturally assume that if she doesn't like math, there's something you can do to change it. The opposite is actually true, I think -- if she *does* like math, then there's *nothing* you can do to *stop* it. (I *like* emphasizing things with *stars*.)

To anybody who's about to flame me for wanting to force my child in either my footsteps or my wife's, don't be ridiculous. There's nothing wrong with a parent having dreams for their children, and it is an honor to think that your children will want to be like you. I never said I'd force her to do anything.

Drugs?

[baldass_newbie]

Baking together as a way to sneak in fractions?

Dude, you shouldn't do drugs with your daughter...
Oh, wait.
Actually, baking is great. Try to bake a cake using only one-thirds and one-quarter measuring cups. Learn more in 5 minutes than their teachers will ever teach them.
Teachers are half the problem (or two-thirds, can't recall right now.) Case in point, I had a Calculus prof who was brilliant. Had been teacing for 50 years and could teach Calc in his sleep. In college, it was like the profs were trying to confuse the students. There was no flow, logic or appreciation of the concepts.

What about spatial toys like Legos, Erector Sets and Lincoln Logs? It would seem to complement math learning.

Just make sure you don't push it too hard. Your duaghter is hitting an age where she's more inclined to do what you DON'T want, than in making Daddy happy. It's called puberty.
Good luck.

No, no no.

[Unknown Poltroon]

DOnt let hre read what she wants and find her own interests. Force her to learn math despite the fact that she hates it. Eventually, she will grow up highly intellegnt and very angry, and take over the world!!

Don't push too hard, but make it available

[SataiCam]

My parents went through a similar scenario with me. I wanted to be an engineer like Dad, but somewhere along the way, I decided I really liked to read more than doing math. And I completely understand about your daughter blanching at reading science fiction with only guys as the protagonists--I did the same thing.

I really like your idea of cooking to sneak in fractions. That's really the best way to go about it--sneak it in. If you push--like my parents did to me for a short time--she might get surly and go from "math is okay" to "math sucks ass, get off my bad, Dad." That said, make sure it's still available. Have those old sci-fi books out just in case *she* wants to pick one up. Keep an old PC handy that she can tinker with if she wants (keep it old and crusty and leave a book for learning BASIC lying around--heehee). On car trips, keep a calculator around, and when she asks "how long until we get there?" you can suggest she figure it out--I became a master at the last one. "Check Dad's speedometer, check the mile marker...we'll be to Grandma's in 2 hours. 2 hours?!?! Let me do that again...."

Those sorts of things helped with my eventual turn around from detesting math. Word problems were a help (they were puzzles not just equations). Dad would also occasionally do "fun stuff" in the back yard (building rockets, that sort of thing--blowing things up is always appealing). The other help was when I got interested in Star Trek (TNG started when I was 7). Cheeze-Whiz as it is, my Dad watched it with me and would "casually" point out the math and science things. I had Dr. Crusher, so I could say, "cool, a girl, like me!" and I had Dad to point out the things "Dr. Crusher probably learned in school." I'm sure getting educational value from Trek was a pain for Dad. At some point it turned into lessons on why things on Trek weren't real.

In the end, I wound up majoring in Computer Science in college. I'll honestly say that math is not one of my favorite subjects, and I'd rather read a novel than deal with a page of integrals or something, but I don't hate it, and I know how to get some level of enjoyment from it.

Oh, and if her nitwit first grade teacher ever makes her take "timed tests" where she has to spit out addition tables from memory. Beat the teacher with a wet noodle.

Good luck!

Kids and Math....a Tale

[superid]

On cartrips with my family, if my wife and I start discussing something sometimes one of my kids will interject with question which leads to some interesting conversations. One night we were talking about state lotteries which led to statistics and I was trying to explain to my kindergartner the basic concept of "chance" from a pool of people and what happens when there are a lot of people involved:

"Mrs. Souza is going to pick either you or Brenny and give you this new pencil....do you think you might get it?"
"um.....yes"
"Ok, now suppose She is going to pick only one person from the whole class, do you think you might get the pencil?"
"um...maybe"
"Ok, now suppose she is going to pick only one person from the whole school, do you think you might still get the pencil?"
"um...maybe...but...."
"but what?"
"whats so special about that pencil?"

Re:Algorithm Driven Allowance

[Bald Wookie]

Just be careful when you teach them factorials...

Needs facts now, too young for math

[bluGill]

You are confusing Mathamatics and Arithmatic. Kids are not mentally ready for math until 5th grade at the earliest. Until then then need some facts (arithmatic) as a foundation.

Tell her those packets are boring, but sometimes life is borning, and she needs to know all that. Everyone knows that 9+7 is 16, but you need to know that without counting on your fingers, it makes the rest of what she learns possible. Just make her do it, and then let her get on with the other toys.

Don't worry about perfect grades, make sure she knows what is going on. Spend your time teaching her how to think. Teach her to question facts to make sure they are reasonable. The best way to teach is by example. If you kids see you sit in from of the TV watching Hard Copy for your news (or the equivelent) they will learn to watch, and likely belive and care about junk news. If they see you read the Wall Street Journel or other respected papers and then discuss what you read (with your spouse, neightbors, and kids) they will learn to do the same.

Don't be too cought up in what the kid wants to do now. Nobody is equiped to decide what to do with their life until at least 9th grade, and many switch carrers several times. The world needs Doctor, ditch diggers, and preachers. For now make sure she can do whichever one she wants to. (note that all of the above require some inborn ability that not everyone has - doctors need to deal with blood, ditch diggers need to be strong, and preachers need to understand both God and People - assuming they are not crooks, those just need to understand people)

Maths != Arithmetic

[bakes]

Most of the comments I have read focus on making arithmetic fun. Mathematics is such an enormous field, and many of those can be made fun.

Remember spirograph? Beautiful pictures, very simply done, based on mathematics. Draw some dots in a 'L' shape on a piece of paper and use a ruler to make curves with straight lines (you know what I mean). Bash some nails into a piece of wood and do the same thing with some coloured string. Draw up a pascals triangle and colour code the numbers (multiples of 2, 3, 4 etc in different colours).

Use a fibonacci sequence to draw boxes (1st box 1x1, 2nd box 2x1, 3rd box 3x2, etc using the long side of the previous box as the short side of the next), then draw quarter circles within the boxes to get a nice spiral effect. Check out the Sybase logo for an example.

Then you have graphs of 3D functions, and axial rotations of 2D functions. There are many more ideas. Young kids like pretty pictures with lots of colours.

She doesn't necessarily have to understand the mathematics right now, she'll just enjoy doing stuff with you, getting a nice picture out of it, and most importantly she'll associate "maths" with "fun".