Posted by
timothy
on from the version-number-fever dept.
meisenst writes "Lindows 2.0.0 is out, and features, among other things, the ability to browse Windows network shares and map them as you would on a Windows machine. The ISO release notes are here(1), the announcement is here(2) (for now, anyway), and some screenshots are here(3). Looks good!"
KDE has allowed windows browsing for a LONG TIME
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 1, Informative
ummmmmm.... i've been using KDE to browse the windows network here at work and at home for quite a long time. I don't think Lindows should be given credit for what konqueror, not to mention LinNeighborhood, has done.
Michael Robertson Is Cooperative
by
Bruce+Perens
·
· Score: 4, Informative
The last few times I've had an issue to bring to Michael Robertson's attention on the community's behalf, he's always fixed the problem, and he's done it promptly.
Note for the cheapskates among us
by
JonTurner
·
· Score: 2, Informative
If you're looking for a freebie, keep moving. Lindows currently costs $99.00. (Alternately, it comes bundled on some systems from WalMart.com starting at only $200.00!) So what do you get for $99? A well-integrated, easy-to-setup and attractive Linux desktop with two years' access to Lindows' application download servers via an easy-to-use web app front end they call "Click and Run".
If you want a free version, you'll need to wait for the LindowsOS General Release later this year.
Re:Mounting Shares
by
slackerweb
·
· Score: 3, Informative
Mandrake 8.2 can do that. In the control center under mount points there are options to mount samba and nfs directories. It searches your network for shared directories, then you pick the one you want and give it a mount point.
Re:Misleading?
by
cmorriss
·
· Score: 3, Informative
Does anybody else realize how confusing buying a cheap 'lindows' PC might be for a non tech-savvy user? Their website alludes to running standard windows software, and hinting that software 'might' be compatible...
Actually, they changed directions a little while ago. Their website now says almost nothing about running standard Windows applications. They changed their tune to now simply give easy access to the many native linux applications that are available.
They call it the Click-N-Run Warehouse. It allows a user to just select an application from their warehouse and it will automatically be downloaded and installed. I think they realized that they were going to run into the problems you describe and decided they were biting off more than they could chew.
-- 10 minutes working on a sig. What a waste.
Re:Misleading?
by
gfxguy
·
· Score: 2, Informative
I agree, it's misleading. Even the FAQ doesn't answer the question ("What Microsoft® Windows applications will LindowsOS(TM) run?"):
LindowsOS(TM) has been optimized to run certain Microsoft® Windows "bridge" programs. So far, Microsoft® Office 2000 applications like Microsoft® Word, Microsoft® Excel and PowerPoint® have been certified to run under LindowsOS. We term these applications "bridge" programs because they will help you switch to the LindowsOS environment.
Even if you don't have a copy of Microsoft Office, LindowsOS computers come with software to view, print and copy MS Word files, MS PowerPoint files and MS Excel documents. To edit Microsoft Office compatible files, we'd recommend one of the office suites in our Click-N-Run Warehouse(TM) such as StarOffice(TM) or OpenOffice.
LindowsOS is continually improving its support for running Microsoft Windows compatible programs, expanding on the support for these bridge programs.
So, in other words, pretty nothing except Word and Office? I guess that those programs run is a pretty big step, though. Although I'm in the camp that says "why use Linux to run MS applications?"
-- Stupid sexy Flanders.
Make sure you read the Release Notes!!
by
I_am_Rambi
·
· Score: 3, Informative
There are interesting release notes for 2.0
2.0 cannot install to a secondary slave drive yet - Can't get a new hard drive after Lindows is installed
Advanced Install options needs improvement in drive labeling and drive order - If you have more than one drive, good luck installing and setting up your drives
Due to problems it was causing, we had to turn off the "Restore session" option when rebooting. We'll work on getting this fixed and back in. - If it crashes, your out of luck
No support for DSL (PPPOE) - Well, there goes DSL users
Re:Forgot One Thing
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 1, Informative
Yes, Lindows.com has always made source available to those who they distribute the bianaries to. The GPL does NOT require them to make source available to just anyone, only those they distribute the bianaries to, which they do.
http://lindows.com/licensing
Jeff
Re:Misleading?
by
2short
·
· Score: 2, Informative
Certainly part of what killed OS/2 was lack of apps, but the real problem was that IBM wasn't running around begging developers. They were charging an arm and a leg for the SDK at a time when if you looked a little geeky, MS would throw copies of the Win32 SDK at your head.
Re:should i?
by
DavidLeblond
·
· Score: 4, Informative
If you want to check out Linux without potentially killing your computer (and if you're a linux newbie this is very possible) either download Knoppix or something like Suse LiveCD. These run directly off the CD and do not require you to repartition your hard drive and the like. If you don't like them, take out the CD, delete the temp files (if you choose to make any), and go back to Windows.
Just an addendum, a lot of older CD-writers (like mine) will not burn Knoppix since it is 700MB.
Or try the new Gentoo and play some UT2003 while you're at it.
Re:Misleading?
by
karmawarrior
·
· Score: 2, Informative
I bought the $199 Walmart PC recently, which comes with Lindows.
It's not bad (though my PC came with a bizarre installation problem - the partition containing the OS was bigger than the disk it was on, I'd have lost data had I not gone and reformatted it all for Slackware anyway.) The major issue with the "Windows compatability" was that the usual WINE problems came up - standard installers tend to put their dialogs in places where they can't easily be reached, and then they fail anyway because they're looking for system requirements that, apparently, haven't been met.
I tried with the types of app Lindows needs to run to "compete" with Windows, namely a proprietry database frontend of the sort sold by corporations to other corporations, well below the radar of open source projects (who gives a stuff if Office XP or Outlook works? There are plenty of open source/free software alternatives to those applications.) This was Pilot Administrator, for those who've heard of it, an OLAP product. It didn't install, and, from what I can see, wasn't doing anything special.
Lindows is user friendly. Setting it up on my network was a piece of cake. I suspect some Windows applications work well if you can find a way of installing them. But at the same time, it's not something I'd dump in front of a typical Windows user and say "Hey, use this, it'll run most of what you want it to run." Rather, the WINE features are better described as useful bonusses, for the few applications that run.
--
KMSMA (WWBD?)
Some things to consider
by
lordcorusa
·
· Score: 5, Informative
i'm a Microsoft(tm) user, could i use lindow [sic] with my ms experience without too much trouble? how different are they?
I'm assuming when you say you are a Microsoft user you mean that you have only ever used Microsoft products. At this stage, any Unix-based operating system, be it a Linux distribution, Lindows (I do not personally count Lindows as a true Linux distribution), FreeBSD, or whatever, will be like jumping into a cold swimming pool. That is to say, it will be a shock at first, but if you are reasonably intelligent and you have picked a newbie distribution (Mandrake, Lycoris, Lindows, ELX), you should be able to adjust.
Some things to keep in mind:
1. You will not have perfect compatibility with Windows apps like MSOffice. You can use OpenOffice and most of your docs will look fine, but some will have visible display glitches (although I have never seen one that was unreadable). You can also download browser plugins for Mozilla (the best Linux web browser) which give it virtually all the worthwhile functionality of IE. Ximian Evolution is an excellent replacement for Outlook. OpenOffice, Mozilla, and Evolution all come with most new Linux distributions today. Another solution is Codeweavers Crossover Office and Crossover Plugin, which let you use Windows office apps and browser plugins. However, this option requires a subscription fee.
2. Many/most Windows games will not work at all, or without a good deal of tinkering. If you are a hardcore gamer, check out Transgaming WineX which can let you play some of the most popular Windows games with a minimum of glitches. This option also requires a subscription fee.
3. A Linux installation needs either its own hard drive, a free partition of space on a Windows drive (at least a few gigabytes) or its own machine. If you have only one machine with one partition on one hard drive, and that is for Windows, then you *might* damage your Windows installation installing Linux. Your best bet if you don't know what I am talking about is to ask a friend who knows more for some help in the installation.
4. While most hardware I have ever purchased is supported, some things just don't have support yet. One example is the "winmodem". Most modems sold today are sneakily designed to work only with Microsoft Windows. Yes, this is a conspiracy between Microsoft and the manufacturers of those modems. If your modem doesnt work, you will probably have to buy a new modem which specifically says it is a "hardware modem". As someone in [your local computer/electronics store] for help.
**Aside from all that, a tonne of things are different in the actual underlying operating system, but if you aren't a developer, you proably won't be intersted in those details. (Feel free to continue this thread if you are, I will be happy to answer more questions.)
With all this, I was trying to provide full disclosure of pitfalls to migrating, not to discourage you. I definately think the switch to Linux is worthwhile in the long term.
If as you implied you have only ever used Microsoft products, the best path you could take is to switch to OpenOffice and Mozilla running on Windows, then if you are comfortable with them, try to dual-boot with a newbie distribution like the ones mentioned above.
-- The preceding comments reflect the author's personal opinion and are public domain, unless explicitly stated otherwise.
Re:Source?
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 1, Informative
It's all here. It's been out for a long time... where you been?
I used OS/2 for years. IT was a nightmare. I had a service contract with IBM (extra but cheap). I set up dual monitor which OS/2 supported (poorly) - when the VGA screen came up the 8514 froze. IBM never did fix that problem.
XGA apparently solved dual screen. I was never able to find XGA video cards that would work in my clone dispite several calls to IBM tech support.
The single message queue problem was to the best of my knowledge never solved - hense the machine locked up quite often.
There were dosen's of trouble calls for this that and the other. Most of this I could have fixed myself if it was documented. Little things - like changing the domain of the system.... I even have the red books for OS/2 and subscribed to the OS/2 developers network. Nothing in there how to change even a domain name. I gave up and just used the numerical IP address. Well - the HDD crashed about 2 years ago and good riddence.
Now - those trouble calls. I lost HOURS on hold. The intake operators asked the same stupid questions over and over for 3 years. These people were not even able to set up a database with a phone number index. Even Sears can do that - but apparently not IBM.
How much memory - how much disk - what make of disk - what kind of video card and so on. Stoopid questions that had nothing to do with the problem. 3/4 of what was in config.sys was a mystery including the "undocumented" video configuration I ran with "undocumented" parameters that brought my dual head system up - complements from a senior tech from Boca Raton.
Oh the nightmare. I offered to WRITE a utilty for them to spin through the HDD and spit out version numbers and config info so we didn't have to wait on hold. This _could_ have been popped into an email. Nope - sit and wait on hold. Arrghh.
OS/2 failed because IBM never fixed the problems. OS/2 failed because IBM spent huge sums of money on intake operators that wasted people's time. A simple little file in the machine that the installer created that carries config and version info - simple things like placing the amount of memory, HDD size, drivers loaded and so on - things that could be emailed to the response tech were never done.
When I switched to NT4.0 (which has its own problems) it was like a breath of fresh air. NT even runs the text mode OS/2 apps (like Breif for OS/2) better than OS/2 ever did.
Re:User vs Root
by
Khopesh
·
· Score: 3, Informative
Lindows "solves" the problem [of mounting samba shares] by simply having the user run as root all the time. I frankly can't see how Lindows is anything but the worst of both worlds.
eww. there's an easier solution.
(i hope the lindows people are reading...)
use sudo. from the sudo website, "Sudo (superuser do) allows a system administrator to give certain users (or groups of users) the ability to run some (or all) commands as root or another user while logging the commands and arguments."
I use sudo almost exclusively for mounting (including smbmount). there are ways to easily configure it so that it doesn't need a password to perform some (or all) actions.
Re:And where is...
by
4/3PI*R^3
·
· Score: 2, Informative
Those who have received from Lindows.com the binaries for any GPL'd software can also find the source code available for download in their my.lindows.com account.
You have to pay Lindows for a license before you get the source code. Doesn't this violate the GPL?
Re:Someone explain...
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 1, Informative
Simple. If they don't release binaries to you they don't have to give the source to you.
Read the gpl faq:
"Does the GPL require that source code of modified versions be posted to the public?
The GPL does not require you to release your modified version. You are free to make modifications and use them privately, without ever releasing them. This applies to organizations (including companies), too; an organization can make a modified version and use it internally without ever releasing it outside the organization.
But if you release the modified version to the public in some way, the GPL requires you to make the modified source code available to the users, under the GPL.
Thus, the GPL gives permission to release the modified program in certain ways, and not in other ways; but the decision of whether to release it is up to you."
(italics added)
You are only required under the GPL to release GPL'd code (including your revisions) to those to whom you release binaries.
Just because most ppl are more liberal with the GPL by making everything readily available (which is what I believe should be the case generally) doesn't mean that everyone has to do the same.
You already can with most distros
by
Nailer
·
· Score: 3, Informative
KDE already comes with a neally nice browser for SMB, NFS, FTP and web shares called lisa. It seems none of the distribution makers have removed it, but non of them have bothered writing an initscript for it and turning it on.
You can already browse the network easily in, say, Red Hat 7.3 if you create your own initscript - its really slick. But most people who need these kinds of apps won't do that because they can't be bothered (and why should they have to be?).
If you want this to be fixed, then maybe add a supporting comment to Bug 72114 - Reslisa needs an initscript
Slashdot Mirror
ummmmmm.... i've been using KDE to browse the windows network here at work and at home for quite a long time. I don't think Lindows should be given credit for what konqueror, not to mention LinNeighborhood, has done.
Bruce
Bruce Perens.
try LinNeighborhood
If you want a free version, you'll need to wait for the LindowsOS General Release later this year.
FAQ's may be found at: http://help.lindows.com/cgi-bin/visitors.cfg/php/e nduser/std_alp.php
Mandrake 8.2 can do that. In the control center under mount points there are options to mount samba and nfs directories. It searches your network for shared directories, then you pick the one you want and give it a mount point.
Actually, they changed directions a little while ago. Their website now says almost nothing about running standard Windows applications. They changed their tune to now simply give easy access to the many native linux applications that are available.
They call it the Click-N-Run Warehouse. It allows a user to just select an application from their warehouse and it will automatically be downloaded and installed. I think they realized that they were going to run into the problems you describe and decided they were biting off more than they could chew.
10 minutes working on a sig. What a waste.
Stupid sexy Flanders.
There are interesting release notes for 2.0
2.0 cannot install to a secondary slave drive yet - Can't get a new hard drive after Lindows is installed
Advanced Install options needs improvement in drive labeling and drive order - If you have more than one drive, good luck installing and setting up your drives
Due to problems it was causing, we had to turn off the "Restore session" option when rebooting. We'll work on getting this fixed and back in. - If it crashes, your out of luck
No support for DSL (PPPOE) - Well, there goes DSL users
Yes, Lindows.com has always made source available to those who they distribute the bianaries to. The GPL does NOT require them to make source available to just anyone, only those they distribute the bianaries to, which they do.
http://lindows.com/licensing
Jeff
Certainly part of what killed OS/2 was lack of apps, but the real problem was that IBM wasn't running around begging developers. They were charging an arm and a leg for the SDK at a time when if you looked a little geeky, MS would throw copies of the Win32 SDK at your head.
If you want to check out Linux without potentially killing your computer (and if you're a linux newbie this is very possible) either download Knoppix or something like Suse LiveCD. These run directly off the CD and do not require you to repartition your hard drive and the like. If you don't like them, take out the CD, delete the temp files (if you choose to make any), and go back to Windows.
Just an addendum, a lot of older CD-writers (like mine) will not burn Knoppix since it is 700MB.
Or try the new Gentoo and play some UT2003 while you're at it.
It's not bad (though my PC came with a bizarre installation problem - the partition containing the OS was bigger than the disk it was on, I'd have lost data had I not gone and reformatted it all for Slackware anyway.) The major issue with the "Windows compatability" was that the usual WINE problems came up - standard installers tend to put their dialogs in places where they can't easily be reached, and then they fail anyway because they're looking for system requirements that, apparently, haven't been met.
I tried with the types of app Lindows needs to run to "compete" with Windows, namely a proprietry database frontend of the sort sold by corporations to other corporations, well below the radar of open source projects (who gives a stuff if Office XP or Outlook works? There are plenty of open source/free software alternatives to those applications.) This was Pilot Administrator, for those who've heard of it, an OLAP product. It didn't install, and, from what I can see, wasn't doing anything special.
Lindows is user friendly. Setting it up on my network was a piece of cake. I suspect some Windows applications work well if you can find a way of installing them. But at the same time, it's not something I'd dump in front of a typical Windows user and say "Hey, use this, it'll run most of what you want it to run." Rather, the WINE features are better described as useful bonusses, for the few applications that run.
KMSMA (WWBD?)
I'm assuming when you say you are a Microsoft user you mean that you have only ever used Microsoft products. At this stage, any Unix-based operating system, be it a Linux distribution, Lindows (I do not personally count Lindows as a true Linux distribution), FreeBSD, or whatever, will be like jumping into a cold swimming pool. That is to say, it will be a shock at first, but if you are reasonably intelligent and you have picked a newbie distribution (Mandrake, Lycoris, Lindows, ELX), you should be able to adjust.
Some things to keep in mind:
1. You will not have perfect compatibility with Windows apps like MSOffice. You can use OpenOffice and most of your docs will look fine, but some will have visible display glitches (although I have never seen one that was unreadable). You can also download browser plugins for Mozilla (the best Linux web browser) which give it virtually all the worthwhile functionality of IE. Ximian Evolution is an excellent replacement for Outlook. OpenOffice, Mozilla, and Evolution all come with most new Linux distributions today. Another solution is Codeweavers Crossover Office and Crossover Plugin, which let you use Windows office apps and browser plugins. However, this option requires a subscription fee.
2. Many/most Windows games will not work at all, or without a good deal of tinkering. If you are a hardcore gamer, check out Transgaming WineX which can let you play some of the most popular Windows games with a minimum of glitches. This option also requires a subscription fee.
3. A Linux installation needs either its own hard drive, a free partition of space on a Windows drive (at least a few gigabytes) or its own machine. If you have only one machine with one partition on one hard drive, and that is for Windows, then you *might* damage your Windows installation installing Linux. Your best bet if you don't know what I am talking about is to ask a friend who knows more for some help in the installation.
4. While most hardware I have ever purchased is supported, some things just don't have support yet. One example is the "winmodem". Most modems sold today are sneakily designed to work only with Microsoft Windows. Yes, this is a conspiracy between Microsoft and the manufacturers of those modems. If your modem doesnt work, you will probably have to buy a new modem which specifically says it is a "hardware modem". As someone in [your local computer/electronics store] for help.
**Aside from all that, a tonne of things are different in the actual underlying operating system, but if you aren't a developer, you proably won't be intersted in those details. (Feel free to continue this thread if you are, I will be happy to answer more questions.)
With all this, I was trying to provide full disclosure of pitfalls to migrating, not to discourage you. I definately think the switch to Linux is worthwhile in the long term.
If as you implied you have only ever used Microsoft products, the best path you could take is to switch to OpenOffice and Mozilla running on Windows, then if you are comfortable with them, try to dual-boot with a newbie distribution like the ones mentioned above.
The preceding comments reflect the author's personal opinion and are public domain, unless explicitly stated otherwise.
It's all here. It's been out for a long time... where you been?
I used OS/2 for years. IT was a nightmare. I had a service contract with IBM (extra but cheap). I set up dual monitor which OS/2 supported (poorly) - when the VGA screen came up the 8514 froze. IBM never did fix that problem.
XGA apparently solved dual screen. I was never able to find XGA video cards that would work in my clone dispite several calls to IBM tech support.
The single message queue problem was to the best of my knowledge never solved - hense the machine locked up quite often.
There were dosen's of trouble calls for this that and the other. Most of this I could have fixed myself if it was documented. Little things - like changing the domain of the system.... I even have the red books for OS/2 and subscribed to the OS/2 developers network. Nothing in there how to change even a domain name. I gave up and just used the numerical IP address. Well - the HDD crashed about 2 years ago and good riddence.
Now - those trouble calls. I lost HOURS on hold. The intake operators asked the same stupid questions over and over for 3 years. These people were not even able to set up a database with a phone number index. Even Sears can do that - but apparently not IBM.
How much memory - how much disk - what make of disk - what kind of video card and so on. Stoopid questions that had nothing to do with the problem. 3/4 of what was in config.sys was a mystery including the "undocumented" video configuration I ran with "undocumented" parameters that brought my dual head system up - complements from a senior tech from Boca Raton.
Oh the nightmare. I offered to WRITE a utilty for them to spin through the HDD and spit out version numbers and config info so we didn't have to wait on hold. This _could_ have been popped into an email. Nope - sit and wait on hold. Arrghh.
OS/2 failed because IBM never fixed the problems. OS/2 failed because IBM spent huge sums of money on intake operators that wasted people's time. A simple little file in the machine that the installer created that carries config and version info - simple things like placing the amount of memory, HDD size, drivers loaded and so on - things that could be emailed to the response tech were never done.
When I switched to NT4.0 (which has its own problems) it was like a breath of fresh air. NT even runs the text mode OS/2 apps (like Breif for OS/2) better than OS/2 ever did.
Lindows "solves" the problem [of mounting samba shares] by simply having the user run as root all the time. I frankly can't see how Lindows is anything but the worst of both worlds.
eww. there's an easier solution.
(i hope the lindows people are reading...) use sudo. from the sudo website,
"Sudo (superuser do) allows a system administrator to give certain users (or groups of users) the ability to run some (or all) commands as root or another user while logging the commands and arguments."
I use sudo almost exclusively for mounting (including smbmount).
there are ways to easily configure it so that
it doesn't need a password to perform some (or all) actions.
Use my userscript to add story images to Slashdot. There's no going back.
You have to pay Lindows for a license before you get the source code. Doesn't this violate the GPL?
Simple. If they don't release binaries to you they don't have to give the source to you.
Read the gpl faq:
"Does the GPL require that source code of modified versions be posted to the public?
The GPL does not require you to release your modified version. You are free to make modifications and use them privately, without ever releasing them. This applies to organizations (including companies), too; an organization can make a modified version and use it internally without ever releasing it outside the organization.
But if you release the modified version to the public in some way, the GPL requires you to make the modified source code available to the users, under the GPL.
Thus, the GPL gives permission to release the modified program in certain ways, and not in other ways; but the decision of whether to release it is up to you."
(italics added)
You are only required under the GPL to release GPL'd code (including your revisions) to those to whom you release binaries.
Just because most ppl are more liberal with the GPL by making everything readily available (which is what I believe should be the case generally) doesn't mean that everyone has to do the same.
KDE already comes with a neally nice browser for SMB, NFS, FTP and web shares called lisa. It seems none of the distribution makers have removed it, but non of them have bothered writing an initscript for it and turning it on.
You can already browse the network easily in, say, Red Hat 7.3 if you create your own initscript - its really slick. But most people who need these kinds of apps won't do that because they can't be bothered (and why should they have to be?).
If you want this to be fixed, then maybe add a supporting comment to
Bug 72114 - Reslisa needs an initscript