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New York Times Staff Editorial Promoting Linux

cotyledon writes "Today's New York Times editorial (Free Blah-Di-Blah) describes Linux as good for consumers and good for programmers. It recommends "Government units abroad and in the United States and individual computer users should look for ways to support Linux and Linux-based products. The competition it offers helps everyone." This is the paper's opinion, btw, and not a guest columnist."

29 of 364 comments (clear)

  1. ObSimpsons by Dirtside · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Ha-... huh?

    Not that I object, but this seems like an odd thing for the NYT to just come out and say. "...the possibility of invading Iraq. By the way, Linux r0xx0rs. In other news..."

    --
    "Destroy science and religion. Science would re-emerge exactly the same; but not religion." - Penn Jillette, paraphrased
    1. Re:ObSimpsons by Otter · · Score: 5, Insightful
      Agreed. This is kind of an odd development -- why would the NYT suddenly write an editorial like this? It doesn't seem to be tied to any specific event or announcement. I wonder if one of the editors just installed it and fell in love.

      Also odd was:

      And outside programmers have long complained that Microsoft makes it hard for them to create software compatible with Windows-based computers.

      What? That's the one thing just about everyone knowledgeable agrees Microsoft does well. I mean, have you noticed any shortage of third-party Microsoft apps? Of course, what they will do is crush any developer whose territory they've suddenly decided should be theirs.

      Then, there's:

      Wal-Mart has started selling a home computer called Lindows, which runs on Linux...

    2. Re:ObSimpsons by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      [...]software compatible with Windows-based computers[...]

      I think they are talking about interoperability with windows computers (think samba, kerberos).

    3. Re:ObSimpsons by brianvan · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It doesn't seem to be tied to an event, but why complain? It seems more sincere and provoking this way. It's not one of those "Let's kick them while they're down" kind of things, as if MS just lost a big client or case decision today. No, just as an everyday thing, Linux was given props by the NY Times.

      Besides, if you're a Linux proponent, why complain? This is a great thing to see published. Hell, I think it's a hell of an endorsement and I'm glad they did it... and I'm even a Microsoft shareholder too! (I don't see Linux as the defeat of Microsoft, rather as a challenge for ascension. Of course, I'm rooting for Linux ideaologically as well, but that doesn't mean MS can't make even more money doing their thing ad infinitum)

    4. Re:ObSimpsons by Stephen+Samuel · · Score: 3, Insightful
      It doesn't seem to be tied to any specific event or announcement. I wonder if one of the editors just installed it and fell in love.

      No need for it to be tied to a specific event. It actually could be a case that one of the editors has gotten exposure to it and found out how good it was.. I did that to my roommate with RH6.0, and he turned into a bigtime Linux booster. 7.3 and it's non-RedHat bretheren are a good bit better, so I can definitely see a NYT editor going gah gah over it.

      Reporters can be a snarky lot. When they find out that they've been lied to for the last decade or so, then can get downright crusaderish.

      --
      Free Software: Like love, it grows best when given away.
    5. Re:ObSimpsons by Osty · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Microsoft APIs are buggy, poorly documented, and inneficient. It's long been known that they change them to break specific products.
      Check this [ezboard.com] post for instance:

      Yeah, let's trust a semi-anonymous post on an unknown message board rather than the metric pantload of documentation Microsoft provides FOR FREE to developers. Then again, the portion you quoted is pretty dumb, anyway. Another poster has commented on the WINSOCK.DLL thing, so I'll comment on the other -- Windows Media Player, like any other media player, asks you what files extensions it should handle. If you don't tell it otherwise, it's obviously going to pick all of the file extensions it supports. Thus, Real Player obviously won't run on those files (well, until Real Player takes over those extensions again, like it likes to do). It's no longer tied to those file types. Don't like it? Change it. Or don't let WMP do that in the first place.


  2. Next, BusinessWeek or WSJ by CommandNotFound · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Now, if we can get BusinessWeek or the Wall Street Journal to start saying things like "...businesses should begin investigating Linux to remain cost competitive", the C*O's in America would start herding over to Linux (regardless of its merits and/or limitations, but that's another story).

  3. Good For the Consumer? by chip2000 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I've not come here to bash Linux in any way shape or form, but...

    There is no doubt that Linux supports the cause of breaking the MS monopoly (a good thing, whether or not MS itself is bad..that's not a debate I'm about to start). It's good for the industry, it is definitely a nice operating system for servers, programmers, and sophisticated computer users.

    But Linux (in my opinion, at any rate) is NOT appropriate for the consumer as the articticle claims. The average American (and probably European too, but I can't say) consumer can run word, e-mail, the web, e-mail, and probably a few games. They are blissful on Windows, have no desire to switch over and dont really know about (nor do they care about) the Windows vs. *nix vs. whatever.

    Until Linux comes to a level of user-friendliness much more advanced than it's at now, Linux is not going to enter the general consumer market. The programs are not what people are familliar to, it's not supported by ISPs and a lot of technical help groups, the installation is still complicated (we're talking about people who generally have neither the ability nor desire to so much as reinstall Windows), and neither the CLI (obviously) nor the major interfaces (Gnome, KDE, etc.) are really as user friendly and simple to use as Windows.

    I generally like the NYT, but I wish they'd put a little more general thought into some issues.

    --

    Logic is the ultimate device.
    1. Re:Good For the Consumer? by lunenburg · · Score: 5, Insightful
      Until Linux comes to a level of user-friendliness much more advanced than it's at now, Linux is not going to enter the general consumer market. The programs are not what people are familliar to, it's not supported by ISPs and a lot of technical help groups, the installation is still complicated (we're talking about people who generally have neither the ability nor desire to so much as reinstall Windows), and neither the CLI (obviously) nor the major interfaces (Gnome, KDE, etc.) are really as user friendly and simple to use as Windows.

      You do realize that the more support that gets behind Linux, the more quickly and easily familiar programs will get written and/or ported to it, right? And the more people who use Linux on a daily basis outside of the developer world will result in a greater push toward the user interface?

      The NYT isn't advocating the government yank out everyone's copy of office and stick them on "ed" - they're advocating that governments look at throwing support Linux's way, thereby resulting in increased competition and, by extension, better advances for the end user on both sides.

    2. Re:Good For the Consumer? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      So why did you post your comment for?

      It's not really constructive to just say that Linux isn't enough user friendly. You state that the average user doesn't really care about Windows (TM) vs Unix/Linux etc. all he wants to do is to run Word, Excel, send some mail, browse the web, chat with friends online etc.

      Now lets say that all he wants to do is just that. Then I can't see any reason why Linux with KDE/GNOME isn't friendly enough for the average user - a std Linux system comes with all those programs preinstalled (nope don't give the crap that Linux is harder to install than e.g. XP it simply isn't).

      User Joe will with no problems be able to use e.g. OpenOffice, Mozilla, etc. to do all his daily tasks that he wants to do. I can't see why Linux in this case is harder than Windows. Now it's a different story if he wants to install new programs use special programs or buy new games or hardware - but for the average user doing what you state Linux is definitely easy to use.

      Regards

    3. Re:Good For the Consumer? by Fugly · · Score: 5, Insightful

      If you were paying more attention, you'd notice that your argument is rapidly becoming outdated.

      Until Linux comes to a level of user-friendliness much more advanced than it's at now, Linux is not going to enter the general consumer market

      Linux is very quickly becoming ready for Joe (or Jane) User. Look at recent deveopments such as Lindows or OEone's HomeBase Desktop. The momentum is building. Look at Open Office and Mozilla. Linux is not all that far away from being viable as a desktop operating system my grandmother could use. In fact, I'm convinced that I could already set up a system for her that would allow her to do everything she does now on her windows box with close to the same level of ease.

      They are blissful on Windows, have no desire to switch over and dont really know about (nor do they care about) the Windows vs. *nix vs. whatever.

      Well, first off, I don't know any novice users that would describe their experience as "blissful". Secondly, you're right. They don't care about windows vs. *nix. However, they do care about buying the same PC for $100 less. That's what's going to drive Linux into the consumer market - not users suddenly getting the urge to become a hard-core linux hacker.

    4. Re:Good For the Consumer? by aardvarkjoe · · Score: 5, Insightful
      There is no doubt that Linux supports the cause of breaking the MS monopoly


      No. It doesn't. Never has. Never will. Linux is a kernel, not a political platform, no matter how RMS and a subset of its users try to turn it into one. I get really tired of people assuming that all Linux users support some particular goals.


      As for the tired "Linux software must be user friendly before anyone will use it" line (no matter all the evidence to the contrary) ... it looks like you've got plenty of responses on that subject. And you can find two or three discussions of it a day on slashdot.

      --

      How can we continue to believe in a just universe and freedom to eat crackers if we have no ale?
    5. Re:Good For the Consumer? by jsse · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I beg the differ. Besides being an excellent choice for small-to-medium size servers, Linux is also an excellent choice for office environment.

      What I'm referring to its tight control and consistency in functionalities(you might argue with this but it's true). When I want to setup a machine for my secretary for word processing, I can make sure she can only use that and nothing else. This is exactly like office computers during 80s, a box standing there for a sole purpose. Most clerical clerks are not educated with the computers knowledge, fewer functions in a tool would only help them improve their learning curve and eventually increase productivity.

      You may also argue that modern computer should be general purpose and user-centric. Can you imagine exactly how many hours has been wasted on handling virus outbreaks? I'm not even going to start the problems with allowing users to install their own stuffs in office computers, but you get the idea.

      The modern desktop computing concept promoted by Microsoft is not as productive as the terminal-based idea promoted by IBM in 70-80s, in my opinion.

    6. Re:Good For the Consumer? by Curunir_wolf · · Score: 3, Insightful
      You are COMPLETELY missing the point. Your laptop came preinstalled with Windows. Surprise, surprise, the custom "XP image" CD that came with it reinstalls fine, and all your hardware works perfectly with Windows XP.

      Well, guess what? You can also buy laptops with Linux pre-installed, and you will have the same frustration trying to load Windows XP. I know, I recently helped a friend try it, and we finally gave up. He just wasn't satisfied with using XP on 640 x 480 and 16 colors.

      If you really want a satisfying experience installing Linux on a desktop (or laptop), try the lastest version of Mandrake (at least 8.2, but 9.0 RC2 is pretty stable, too). Mandrake now actually does a better job of recognizing hardware than the latest Windoze does.

      Same with programs like The Gimp. If your PC is factory installed with Linux, Gimp is probably included, and it will work fine for anyone that can point and click. But do you really think your average end-user is going to jump through all the hoops required to download, install and set up all the stuff they need to run The Gimp on Windows? Do you?

      --
      "Somebody has to do something. It's just incredibly pathetic it has to be us."
      --- Jerry Garcia
    7. Re:Good For the Consumer? by RestiffBard · · Score: 3, Insightful

      try again.

      My dad was born the day the bismark sank. (he's old) He knows that you can play solitaire on a computer. That, mahjongg and email is all he cares about. He uses linux now. It's stupid simple for him to use. It doesn't crash. Despite all records to the contrary XP does in fact crash reading email.

      People that say linux isn't user friendly are people that just gave up on their brains. I don't have any computer training whatsoever. I do have a normal life of parties, beer and friends. I have slept with several women. I am not a geek stereotype (who is anymore?) It does not take a computer science degree to use linux or any other operating system. Don't give up on your brain.

      also, what is so simple about navigating windows? Windows has never been "point and click" it has been "click and guess".

      there is nothing intuitive about the Windows ui. or the mac ui. or gnome or kde or any of the others. There's nothing intuitive about a steering wheel either. You have to learn it.

      I'm on a roll now and have karma to burn. what is intuitive about the file menu? file is a menu on every program I've ever used with drop down menus. why is "print" under file? why is "quit" under file? its doens't make any intuitive sense but that's the way we've always done it and we've learned to do it that way.

      windows isn't user friendly. its just never changes. you know what happens with something that doesn't change? it stagnates and dies.

      --
      - /* dead coders leave no comments */
    8. Re:Good For the Consumer? by Fugly · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Linux is very quickly becoming ready for Joe (or Jane) User.

      I still don't understand how ANYONE on /. is qualified to make this assertion. Our perspective is incredibly skewed because of our expertise. Sure, every "Linux on the Desktop" article comes with posts about peoples moms, wifes, grandpa's using Linux just fine, accept not everyone has a relative that can install and support them on it either.


      Yes, I'm sure I'm biased by my technical expertise. However, it's also one of the reasons I feel I can make that assertion. I'm a software developer. I work with users every day to assure that the programs I've written are easily usable and understood. I've sat behind one-way glass and watched users interact with my software. I have a pretty good handle on what's easy for a novice to use and what isn't. Developments like Lindow's "click and run" are breaking new ground in linux's ease of use for general consumers even though we may scoff at them. If you don't think that usability has been improving and improving rapidly, go ahead and pick up an old linux book with an early version of slackware off a discount book rack then download the latest readhat .iso's. Install both of them on a machine. Find somebody who has installed Lindows or HomeBase Desktop and try it out. Compare where things were 5 years ago to where they are today. The difference is impressive.

      As for Windows OEM fees, while I was in college, I worked for a music store that also custom built PC's and sold retail/studio accounting packages (don't ask me how they got into that business). At the time, an OEM copy of Windows 95 was $99. I have no reason to believe this has changed

    9. Re:Good For the Consumer? by Webmonger · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Linux is a kernel, not a political platform, no matter how RMS and a subset of its users try to turn it into one.

      Wrong. Linux is a kernel, and therefore is in competition with Microsoft operating systems. Anything which attempts to compete with Microsoft operating systems supports the cause of breaking the MS monopoly. The original poster did not say that Linux was written for the express purpose of destroying the MS monopoly, just that it served that end.

      And remember that one of the goals of Linux, expressed by Linus, is "World Domination".

    10. Re:Good For the Consumer? by mpe · · Score: 3, Insightful

      People that say linux isn't user friendly are people that just gave up on their brains.

      "user friendly" is probably the most abused term in computing. Usually what people mean by saying something like "Linux isn't user friendly" is that it dosn't work exactly like Windows. Regardless of if XYZ "feature" of Windows actually makes much sense to the "average user" in the first place.

  4. encouraging but superficial by Schlemphfer · · Score: 2, Insightful

    From the article:

    If Linux spreads, Microsoft could see the first real challenge to its dominance of the operating-system software market.

    It would be nice if the writer suggested why Linux has the potential spread where others, most notably MacOS, have so far been steamrolled. Instead, MacOS isn't touched on, and we aren't given any new arguments why Linux could succeed on the desktop.

    It's great to see Linux being taken seriously by the Times but it would be better still to see this editorial add something fresh to the pro-Linux argument.

    --
    I'm generally "Interesting," "Insightful," and even "Funny" here. What the hell happens to me at parties?
  5. Here's my question... by Reality+Master+101 · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Does ANYONE really care what an editor of a newspaper thinks? About ANYTHING? In my experience, reporters are probably some of the least informed, least intelligent, laziest people in any profession. I don't know anyone who looks at the editorial section to see what "The Editor" thinks.

    Maybe I'm just unusual, but I just don't imagine that hoards of people are going to think that some NY Times editor is an expert on technology (or anything for that matter, other than editing).

    --
    Sometimes it's best to just let stupid people be stupid.
    1. Re:Here's my question... by atrus · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Remember, editor != reporter. Being an editor is a much more prestigeous job (especialy being a NYT editor). Editors edit what reporters send them. They are the filter for what goes into the paper. The editors write things themselves, those are called editorials. This link is an editorial. The editorial can be thought of as the opinion of the paper, as the editors have control over what is in the paper. This is not a fact based article by a reporter (those seem to be in short supply at times). This is an opinion. This is a pretty big statement.

    2. Re:Here's my question... by reallocate · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Depending on the paper and its community, lots of people care.

      The positions taken in editorials published in newspapers are not the random jottings of any editor who just happens to have an opinion. They are considered the institutional voice of the newspaper and can carry significant weight in their communities. The editorial stances of the NYT often have national and global impact.

      While basic editing is a skill eveyone working at a newspaper needs to possess, editors are paid to manage staff and reporters, decide what stories are covered, determine story placement in the paper, etc.

      The technical expertise of this particular editorial writer is irrelevant. The Times is making an economic and business argument for Linux, not a technical argument. The piece's thrust is that Linux provides a viable competitor to Linux, which the Times sees as laudable and something that should be encouraged.

      --
      -- Slashdot: When Public Access TV Says "No"
  6. Re:Use the free registration generator by Frank+of+Earth · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Man, all they ask is that you register and answer a few damn questions, all of which you can opt out on.

    I'm glad that /. does *not* promote this utility which ultimately fills the NYT db with garbage. You know what happens when they finally get pissed off? bye bye free registration.

  7. you've missed the point of the article by timster · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The article wasn't saying "Linux is good for the consumer" in the sense that "everybody with a computer should go install Linux now". All the article is saying is that if Linux can offer challenge and competition to the Microsoft monopoly, that THIS would be good for the consumer. For example, presumably if Linux starts making inroads into corporate desktops Microsoft will lower the price of some of their products (if nothing else). Better yet, maybe we'll see more interoperability between the MS, Apple, and Unix worlds, which would also be good for "consumers". Don't try to force what the paper said into such a narrow-minded view.

    --
    I have seen the future, and it is inconvenient.
  8. Re:For those that don't have subscription by Niten · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I don't mean to be a jerk about it, but doesn't the line "Copyright 2002 The New York Times Company" mean anything here?

    Quite seriously, regardless of your personal beliefs regarding intellectual property rights and wrongs, and subscription news services: How is it that we pat a news organization on the back for paying lip service to our favorite operating system, and then infringe on their copyrights?

  9. Missing the point by alienmole · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Will Microsoft ever go bankrupt because of Linux? Hardly. Will it be forced to change it strategies, modify its pricing, target some markets rather than others, because of Linux? The answer to every one of those is that it already has been forced to do those things, because of Linux, and that's the point of competition, and what the NYT editorial is saying.

    Linux has had more success than Microsoft in the embedded space. It's giving Microsoft a run for its money in the server space - at least keeping market share away from Microsoft, if not actively grabbing it. It completely dominates in the supercomputer space, where Microsoft has no presence. So far, Linux has had very little impact in the desktop space, but that seems likely to change over the long term.

    Over time, it's actually very likely that Microsoft's traditional sources of revenue will erode significantly, because of Linux and open source in general. Office suites are a case in point: on the one hand, you have Microsoft experimenting with licensing schemes where they try to charge consumers $100's per year for the use of their product, while on the other hand, you have very competitive free alternatives that have been improving at a dramatic rate and are increasingly being noticed by organizations ranging from the governments of the U.S., Germany, and Peru, to colleges and companies with specialize needs. If Microsoft fails to get the world to switch to an office-suite-as-service model, and I think they will fail, Linux and open source will have played a big role in that.

    That doesn't mean Microsoft is doomed. But they'll be forced to focus on and stick to spaces where they can compete effectively against "free" software - such as the big business world, where the consultants you can deploy are at least as important as the out-of-the-box software you provide.

    In fact, Microsoft has been moving "upmarket" in this sense for a long time, which is one reason they began losing the support of small developers and companies: back when it sold DOS and early versions of Windows, Microsoft needed all the support it could get, and big business treated it as a minor side issue; now, big business loves Microsoft, and vice versa. If you're not a Fortune 1000 company, you're effectively little but a potential annoyance to Microsoft, a source of revenue that can't be supported in a cost-effective way.

    Because of this, you can expect to see small business moving to Linux also, in servers to start with but later for workstations also, as Microsoft products become less and less suitable (Exchange, anyone?) and Linux becomes more and more off-the-shelf and automated (a la Red Hat network.)

    In short, the New York Times is a little behind the times - they're acknowledging a grassroots trend that has been building for years, and that is already a reality. But they're quite timely in another sense, in that the effectiveness of Linux as a competitor to Microsoft has only just begun. It's only been four years since the Halloween documents opened many people's eyes to Linux, and the landscape has changed dramatically since then. Check back in 2006, and see how Microsoft has changed as a result. My bet is it'll be dramatic, although the specifics are hard to predict.

  10. Really? by theLOUDroom · · Score: 2, Insightful

    That's funny, I don't remember infringing on any of their copyrights.
    And how the hell can you say "regardless of your personal beliefs regarding intellectual property rights and wrongs"? Those beliefs seem to me like they would be pretty important in how you treat all copyrights, not just the copyrights of articles you agree/disagree with.

    --
    Life is too short to proofread.
  11. Re:It was a bad idea to begin with... by Anthony+Boyd · · Score: 5, Insightful
    They call me "un-American" for running a communist OS and bashing captialism at every chance.

    But you're a bigger capitalist than they are. They've bought into a monopoly -- the antithesis of a free-market economy. You have supported an open system which fosters free-market competition -- many distributions in competition, window managers in competition, and a huge number of apps that help non-Linux-centric businesses gain an advantage over proprietary competitors.

    Linux is capitalism. Great ideas flourish, bad ideas are trounced, poorly marketed but technically superior ideas are salvaged from the source code of dead dot-coms. You're a fucking patriot.

  12. The Blame Game and your Name by Nice2Cats · · Score: 2, Insightful
    If you had ever worked for a large company like Microsoft, you would know that very rarely your career will be on the line, because you have spent about 50 per cent of your work day playing the Blame Game, also known as Covering Your Ass. Which means that when (or rather, if -- we don't hear about too many Microsoft employees getting fired for security lapses, do we) it hits the fan, the blame gets deflected, passed around, watered down, and it quickly becomes "everybodys fault". In fact, the first reaction in a large company will not be "how do we fix it" but rather "whose fault is this". This is the reason why most large companies respond to problems with the speed an oil tanker turning in a tar pit.

    Now, return to Open Source. If there is a mistake in the code, you and you personally are to blame, and everybody on the whole planet knows, because it says "stratjakt" right in the program. You're afraid that your peers will snicker and point, your mother will cry, and your wife will run away because she can't stand the shame. A coding error at a big company is a "problem requiring prompt service to our respected consumers", but Open Source is as personal as a punch in the guts, and you can't avoid dealing with it by playing office games. Your code, your glory; and your mistake, your blemish.

    So the question of why Open Source is and will be superior on the long run to Closed Source comes down to one simple factor: Human nature. The Free Market works because it harnesses greed; Free Software works because it harnesses pride.