HDTV and Its Impending Problems?

NeuroManson asks: "With the growing hype surrounding HDTV and copy protection, and as further corporate control of the FCC becomes more commonplace with the inevitable arrival of the technology thanks to Hollywood, you will have no choice in the future of watching anything else, since your TV, VCR, etc, will be forced into obsolescence. There are two things that this brings to mind that should be addressed: who will be paying for the retrofit to the thousands of CRT and TV manufacturing plants around the world to make this possible; and assuming that this is going to be a US only problem in the short term (approx 3 years), how do they propose to safely dispose of all those outmoded TVs?" About the only way that this can happen by the recently proposed deadline of July 1st, 2007, without trashing and replacing the majority of our current televisions, American television owners would have to have their TVs "serviced" by a qualified technician to continue to receive broadcast signals. Having a secondary tuner would not work as that would break the "trusted" display chain that Hollywood is seeking to establish.

"Assuming there are approximately 300 million Americans, with 2/3 having upwards of 2 TV sets, that amounts to close to 500 million or more perfectly functional TVs that will wind up in landfills or third world 'recycling' countries like China. These are not exact figures, but you get the idea. As this grinds on, it looks like economic and ecological impacts are the predominate risks involved, as well as not being able to record the latest Star Trek because they put a copy-block flag into the digital broadcast. This is something that I think everyone, from the geek on the web to the little old lady across the street, through the average soccer mom should be concerned about. Any suggestions as to how such could be made publically known, organized against, and promoted, in such a way that the public would know it as a threat, not only to their way of life, but also to their pocketbook and health?"

Comments

What about existing HDTV sets?

[tweakt]

You are forgetting about the growing percentage of HDTV compatible TV sets already out there. The majority of these sets have analog inputs. Yep. High-Res, but its still analog. Basically its a large VGA monitor (only limited to 60hz vert refresh and ~80khz horiz.)

Will these become "obsoleted" as well? No. The copyright protection systems discussed so far involve also the recording of analog signals. This is about the same as macrovision did for DVD players. This is already happening with DVHS.

The truth is, probably ~80% of the HDTVs sold (all the reasonably priced ones) do not contain an HDTV tuner, they have analog inputs which are capable of 1080i, 720p, etc, resolutions. These _cant_ be simply ignored since it took so long to get capable equipment into the hands of consumers, the industry isn't just going to say tell everyone to buy another set.

I imagine these will be grandfathered. New sets will contain digital connections (like DVI for example) and some kind of end-to-end protection, but this, as we all know is futile anyhow.

For the time being, there are VERY few practical ways for Joe Consumer to record a high-def broadcast and replay it, or even send it to someone else. DVHS is the only customer usuable solution right now. Which as we read about earlier has already been taken care of.

Re:What about existing HDTV sets?

[Futurepower(R)]

Interesting.

The computer industry has a scam that they use with unsuspecting executives. It is the "security" scam. The industry ran this scam against the DVD consortium. In actuality, there was no security, but the computer industry managed to convince the DVD group that there was. The deception was, and is, immensely profitable for some hardware manufacturers. But, of course, a 16-year-old released a method of breaking the encryption (with help from more knowledgeable people.)

More recently, Microsoft tried to run the security scam against the entire world. The Passport scheme was working well in the sense that only a small percentage of people realized that it was a scam. But the U. S. government's Federal Trade Commission (FTC) told Microsoft to stop in its August 8, 2002 order: Microsoft Settles FTC Charges Alleging False Security and Privacy Promises

Microsoft has run the security scam against its corporate customers. In actuality, the (local) security of Windows 2000 and Windows XP is very limited; if corporate customers realized this, they might not invest in these operating systems. See the section "Windows XP provides no local security" in the article Windows XP Shows the Direction Microsoft is Going.

You and others in your comments are questioning the HDTV security scam. You are saying, "Hey, wait a minute. Isn't this, and this, and this wrong with the scheme?"

Now Microsoft and Intel and AMD are running the scam with a thing called Palladium. With Microsoft's Palladium, we will, supposedly, have security in an inherently insecure operating system. Palladium's security certificate system is like putting all the world's money in one bank. If someone, a disloyal employee perhaps, breaks into that bank, the entire security is lost, and everyone who spent millions trusting that system will both lose, and have to continue with the system, just like with DVD's.

Palladium prevents security vulnerability the way the U.S. government's "War on Drugs" prevents illegal drug use. In actuality, the real purpose of the "War on Drugs" is to prevent competition by small illegal drug manufacturers, which would lower the price. The big manufacturers are selling more drugs now than before the "War on Drugs", and at artificially high prices.

Don't confuse DTV with HDTV

[wfmcwalter]

The deadline of which the yahoo! article speaks is for DTV - where the over-the-air/cable signal is digital. There is no requirement for the resolution to be any greater than currently available for NTSC.

Digital TV has been creeping in for years, all without anyone buying a new TV. In the UK we had BSB digital a decade ago, and BskyB is digital now, and I believe Dish network in the US is also digital. Most europeans have access to over-the-air digital with DVB boxes, and in the US one can get AT&T digital over cable. [Some of these (dish, BskyB at least) transmit one or two HDTV channels, but these mostly seem to be used in TV stores to try to sell the occasional HDTV set.] All of this is done with external translator boxes in the comsumers home - almost no-one has either a DTV, never mind an HDTV.

My local COMET store is selling funny little DVB translator boxes for around 60 quid, so all this stuff about digital TV adding hundreds to the cost of TVs is horseshit. I'd bet that once every TV can do DVB, they'll be _cheaper_ than regular TVs.

Now, there's other reasons to worry about DTV, not least the greatly increased control this gives the content/distribution folks, but "I need to buy three new TVs" isn't one of them.

Re:It's not nearly as bad as it sounds

[Gerry Gleason]

The conversion to new technology isn't as fast as you think. I'm still using two 20 year old TVs (a 25" Zenith and a 13" Hitachi with a completely manual tuner). Admittedly, part of why I'm still using these is 1) I don't care that much about getting anything bigger or more modern and 2) there isn't much of a technology roadmap. I suppose that when I can get a decent sized HDTV compatible in the $500-1000 range, I could be convinced to upgrade.

As long as the technology is unsettled, at least some people will be reluctant to do anything as long as they have something that works. There will also be a lot of people who just can't afford to upgrade. Advertising driven TV is dependant on a mass audience and the lowest common denominator will dominate it for a long time, no matter what the people pushing the new stuff thing. These are powerful interests.

Re:problems

[powerlord]

This is the one thing I always try and impress upon people.

The snow effects you currently see on a big screen tv when watching 80$/month cable will turn into large blocks or black rectangles. The world isn't going to magically quadrouple thier bandwidth overnight, and most stations don't broadcast anything near a proper signal as it is.

Absolutely true. I've got basic cable, my in-laws have digital cable.

Every now and then I get some static on my reception... no big deal really. Sure, it degrades the quality of the picture, but the mind works great and can pick up on enough thats going on, that it has never turned out to be an issue.

I was over at my in-laws. They started getting static. First it started with some mild pixelation on screen, followed by the sound getting spotty (like a bad cell phone conversation), and then they kept having the screen freeze and strobe slightly (kept getting packets of data but not enough to redraw the screen).

Yes, this is just "traditional TV" broadcast in a Digital format but the idea is the same. Signal Quality is important. Without good signal quality, I'll take analog over digital ANY day of the week.

Public television?

[handsomepete]

I was just talking to someone here at work who is somewhat acquainted with a few of the local TV stations. He said that, on average, it will cost approx. $1.7 million to outfit a television station with the necessary technology to prepare for all this nonsense. That may not be a massive amount to a big city CBS affiliate, but what about public broadcast stations? Won't they also have to participate in this?

I'll certainly bitch and moan if I have to outfit my TV with some new-fangled doo-hickey to watch anything, but I'll bitch and moan even more if I lose the small local/publically funded stations here. That's a lot of call in donations for a station already on a tight budget. Is there some sort of government money available for what they're forcing on everyone?

(please note, this is just a figure that some guy gave me. I'm not claiming it to be absolute, just what I heard.)

Incorrect

[alexhmit01]

Most people with HDTV sets don't have HDTV, they just get better DVD quality. A lot of people get Digital Cable (heavily compressed NTSC/480i signal) and are convinced that their expensive set is important.

I have an apartment, and I got an attic antenna giving me the local OTA signals. Combine that with DirecTV (HDNet, ShoHD, HBO-HD), and you get 8-9 HDTV signals. It's fun, it looks great, but it ain't easy.

Broadcast HDTV is going strong, slowly. All the HDTV STBes for satellites include an antenna input. Samsung has a line of OTA-only STBes.

Living in a city (I live in Boston), you start to think that everyone lives in apartments. However, more middle-class individuals live in houses in the suburbs. Home ownership remains high. Houses can put roof-top antennas up, etc.

HDTV is coming along, its coming along slowly, but its coming along. Personally, I would expect HDTV to die a few years after the DTV switchover. I would expect the local affiliates to show 6 480i signals in the HDTV over-the-air. This doesn't bother me though, if you can get 40 channels over-the-air with a $150-$200 STB, that will put a lot of preasure on cable/DSS.

FUD!

[gerardrj]

Several points:

• The deadline is ONLY for over the air broadcasters using the 2-63 channels on the standard dial.
  
• The deadline only mandates the inclusion of digital tuners, not HDTV or any other resolution or format change.
  
• There will likely be no end to analog broadcasts on the deadline date, but years afterward. At least not until there is evidence that a significant majority of people have new sets or converters.
  
• Even when digital is broadcast exclusively, all you'll need is a set-top converter to view these broadcasts on a standard(today) analog TV. (these should be cheap, I but I think they should be free)
  
• If you subscribe to cable TV, your current analog cable stations can stay analog.
  
• Another FCC mandate requires all digital simulast of analog content by April 2004. That's not going to happen.
  
  • 
    The whole thing here is that the FCC wants this conversion to take place as soon as possible so they can re-parcel the old televisions spectrum and sell it at auction for bug $$$. TV stations pay nothing for the airwaves under the "public good" clause.
    
    All those analog TVs will still be useful. Just as B&W monural TVs can still be used today in the age of color image and stereo sound. Please don't use such alarmist tones unless you really understand the issues at hand.