More Switching Stories

serendigital writes "Unix guru Simon Cozens wrote about his "conversion" story in the UK Unix User Group Newsletter. He touts: OroborosX and XDarwin. This gives you a rootless X server and Aqua-like window manager. He also seems to like the libraries: the NeXT approach of separating libraries off into their own subdirectories and separating out library versions makes for a much tidier filesystem arrangement than simply bundling everything in /usr/lib. One of the more controversial "differences" in OSX." And on the other side of the switch, there's Wil Wheaton does Mandrake.

Comments

Switch to suse

[Anonymous Coward]

I got Mandrake 8.1 and inserted the cd. The Installation mode fucked up, I had to install in 640x480x16@56, Which really sux0red. CD 5 Didn't work, so i had to download off the net, It was ransacked with unacceptable bugs. I had to download thousands of patches and had to read a $hit load of doucmentation to get linux to behave, I even had to switch to windows to fix problems

So i switched to suse 8, no bugs, fast clean and modern. No bugs, its fast and its YAST installer works properly. I would not go back to Mandrake.
SUSE

Suse / Switch.

Im Anonymous Coward, and im a Troll At slashdot.

Re:Switch to suse

[grumpygrodyguy]

One thing that's saved me a lot of headaches is having 2 boxes. Most people like windoze games anyway, so it works out nice to share your dsl/cable connection between a Linux variant and a MS gaming box.

It's pretty invaluable to have a backup system so you can goto google and find out why something crashed in Linux, or vice-a-versa.

Most broadband modems have routers installed nowadays, then just buy a cheap hub from Linksys to share the connection(or buy a Linksys router). Also it's very handy to buy one of those computer I/O switch thingies...it allows you to use one keyboard to control both computers(while sharing the monitor)...all I do it ctl-alt-shift 1, or 2 to switch back and forth between computers.

Anyway Wil's article mentioned the danger inherant in crashing your only connection to the web while experimenting(where to go for help when you can't surf?)...and he also mentioned the drawback of not being able to play windows games in Linux...if you can afford a second box, this solves both problems very nicely.

Re:Switch to suse

[packeteer]

Also it's very handy to buy one of those computer I/O switch thingies...it allows you to use one keyboard to control both computers(while sharing the monitor)...

Your thinking of a "KVM" switch. The name stand for "Keyboard Video Mouse" and they do exactly that. Swtich your keyboard/video(moniter)/mouse. You can find generic ones for cheaper but its best to stick with a name brand such as Belkin or D-Link. Belkin switches will degrade the signanl less and are wortht he extra $10. You can find a 2 computer KVM switch for around $50 with cables or a 4 port from $75-100. They are mostly used in server environments where you have racks of computers but are being used mroe and mroe by home users such as you and me for simple multiple workstation environments. Remeber not to go cheap ont he box and cbaels though ebcause its still less tha the cost of a new keyboard/moniter/mouse and maybe a new desk/bigger room the list goes on.

So what?

[CoolVibe]

Buy a three button USB mouse, and plug that in your Mac. I have this Logitech Mouseman+ (the one with a wheel) and all buttons function and the wheel works too. No problems at all.

Stop spreading FUD already :)

Re:Urgh

[norwoodites]

Wrong, on Darwin, NeXT STeP, OpenStep and Mac OS X, the /usr/lib/dyld (which is like /lib/ld.so) can find the libraries if there are in /System/Library/Frameworks/XXX.framework/XXX, /Library/Frameworks/XXX.framework/XXX, ~/Library/Frameworks/XXX.framework/XXX, and /Network/Library/Frameworks/XXX.framework/XXX (not in that order though), so the LD_LIBRARY_PATH (actually DYLD_LIBRARY_PATH on Darwin/Mac OSX) does not need to be touched at all.


read dyld(1) and ld(1) for more information on how this is done.

Re:the underlying OS is irrelevant

[packeteer]

Even if your 600mhz g3 feels faster how much is it going to cost to upgrade your athlon? Get a new AthlonXP2000+ for $100. Its more than double the speed for $100. I think the price-performance ratio beats out any argument apple has.

Damn Wasn't Set to text, here it is again

[Nazmun]

So it looks like a big mess, here it is:

I've extensively used OS X 10.0, 10.1, and 10.2, servers and clients. If your truly serious about business you'll realize that optimizing and customising these systems are a big pain. With non standard everything... Also it's not actually BSD, but based on it somewhat.

If your gonna use a mac YDL is better imo :). If your a normal user and want to use it as a desktop os, then it's pretty decent. I use Windows, Linux, and OS X server (client also but rarely)... all for different tasks.

Windows: I've used it for a long time and it happens to be a excellent desktop O/S. It on ibm's Open PC Architecture (and has been since the 80s) so there's a lot of cheap and powerful hardware. Downside is that it is harder to use because of the shear amount of stuff for it.

Linux (RH 7.1 with a lot of RPM upgrades): I use this as a hobby/side business for a server of mine. Runs very well, Duron 1 ghz, 1 gig of ram. Hardware/software cost is a real issue here and nothing can compare. My hobby includes a site that get's over 600,000 pageviews daily :). I'd replace Linux with windows already if it were not for the better interface + number of desktop apps of windows that i already use.

OS X Server: I run several of these for and educational institution (happens to be a rich school district). They've always been using macs and there was no way around it. I mainly run two webservers an apache (with PHP, MySQL) and a webstar (with Lasso, Filemaker). When configuring apache and bind, I had to use the terminal for everthing as Apples interface didn't include much to control apache and nothing for bind.

Re:Problems with 'switching'

[lemkebeth]

Nope.

10.2 is not a service pack.

10.2's $129 is the upgrade price as what else would you run it own but, a Mac.?

Let me explain something to you

System 1-6: Free
System 7: $99
system 7.5: $99
System 7.5.1-7.5.5: Free if you had 7.5
System 7.6: $99
MacOS 8.0: $99
MacOS 8.1: $19.99 (for CD) or free to download update, price assumes you had 8.0
MacOS 8.5: $99
MacOS 8.6: $19.99 (for CD) or free for download, price assumes you had 8.5
MacOS 9.0: $99
MacOS 9.0.x - 9.2.2: $19.99 (for CD) or free for Download, assumes you had 9.0 for price.
MacOS X 10.0: $129
MacOS X 10.0.x: Free download
MacOS X 10.1: $19.99 (for CD) or a free download, assumes had 10.0.x
MacOS X 10.2: $129

I'd say they are consistent about only charging for major updates.

I'd consider the current price about right considering inflation.

Re:Urgh

[Anonymous Coward]

You forget that libraries are generally included within the application bundle, unless it's a basic system framework like Foundation.framework or AppKit.framework. Application bundles are one of my favorite features of OS X as they solve a lot of problems that cause systems like windows to slowly self destruct over time.

Check it out.

Re:Two powerful commands on the OS X command line

[spitzak]

Actualy the usual use of the command is "open filename". It performs the same action as double-clicking the file. I think the -a switch forces the file to be opened using a given program rather than the default? Not sure what it means when you provide -a but no filename, probably it runs the appliation as though you double-clicked it, but you could also achieve this by "open blah.app" where blah.app is the .app directory containing the MicroSoft Word or whatever you want.

I hightly recommend that the KDE/Gnome guys get together and make a Linux "open" command, so we don't have to parse all their files just to figure out what a double-clicked file means. Even Windows does this (they call it "start") but for some reason the Linux guys, despite such familiarity with the command line, have not come up with this.

There is a stupid problem on Apple which is why you cannot just type the name of the program. All clickable applications are in ".app" directories, with the exectuable and support files all in one directory. This is a good idea but the implementation sucks:

First of all, if there are no support files they should allow a single exectuable rather than a .app directory, this is how Windows and KDE/Gnome handle files, on OS/X a compiled executable cannot be double-clicked from the finder, which is stupid. It also makes it a pain to write portable programs that can be run from the command line.

Second they should get rid of the ".app" suffix so that they don't have to special-case a "hide suffix" operation in the finder. If you rename any directory .app it screws up, this is probably a bad idea. They should also fix it so that exec can run these, right now to run such a command from the shell you have to type command.app/command to run the executable inside it. Again, pretty stoopid.

I'm on an iBook now....

[SwedishChef]

Ok... normally I use SuSE Linux with Gnome for everything. But we do schools and schools do MACs so here I am with OS-X on my (messy) desk. Right next to me is my LCD monitor which can show me my Linux GUI or my Windows GUI. I can compare all of them with little effort.

What do I like about OS-X?

1. I like the size and convenience of the iBook. It has Unix on it and that makes it useful for me to carry to clients' sites and check out their network. Normally I carry a Linux laptop for this but the P-120 laptop (my wife's old machine) is too slow for a useful GUI.

2. I like the GUI. Heck, I was laying in bed the other night playing games on this thing and it was damn fun. (Well, fun for me, my wife was annoyed at the bleeps and whistles... sheesh.)

3, I like that it's Unix... BSD rocks (although I generally prefer Linux).

What do I not like???

1. Yeah, the mouse. One button. I like to surf using new windows for links and then close 'em down to go back for more links. A single-button mouse doesn't do this and it's a pain in the butt to carry a mouse with me.

2. One desktop. Damn! How can I work with only one desktop? On my Linux box I have 4 desktops; one for email/calendar (Ximian Evolution), one for web browsers, and two for misc apps I pull up (Open Office, GAIM, etc.). How anyone can do useful work without having multiple desktops (accessible with alt-F keys) is beyond me. Is there a way to do this on the MAC. I dunno yet.

3. The keyboard on this iBook bounces... some letters in words appear twice in a row. This annoys me. Although, to be frank, it might be just my untrained fingers on a new keyboard.

Generally, however, I like the iBook and I like OS-X. I would recommend this product to any client as long as the apps they need are available. But I'm not switching yet.

Re:I'm on an iBook now....

[foobar104]

Command-tab cycles through open applications!

Also, many apps support the use of command-tilde (that key next to the 1 and below escape) to cycle through open windows. I believe this is a Cocoa shortcut, so some apps may get it automatically from the OS. In particular, it works in OmniWeb and Terminal.app (the only two apps I'm running with multiple windows right now).

I switched (even without a two button mouse)

[actappan]

Like many of the die hards in my office, I thought OS X was an improvment over Mac OS, but I stuck by my linux installation as my primary work station for quite some time. A couple of weeks ago- with the release of 10.2, I decided I would switch over on an experimental basis. With OroborOSX and XDarwin, as well as the Mac OS X developer tools, I'm pretty much sold at this point.

I now have a workstation that runs most (if not all) of the Unix ish apps I need to do my work, as well as the propritary applications I used to have to switch to windows for.

Sure, I still have three boxes on my desk (Linux WS, Mac g4 desktop, and cheesy little windows laptop) but I'm increasing using ONLY the OS X system. I'm pretty much sold - as are most of the other's on the engineering/it team I work with.

'course at home - I still run linux - but I don't need MS Office as much there. I'm still sold on Linux as a platform, all but a very few server installations I'm working with at this point are linux, and I'm not about to get rid of it all together - but the next machine I'll buy will be a tiBook (though if you're listening apple, we need a damed two button mouse)

The KDE equivalent of open

[XNormal]

The KDE equivalent of the open command is kfmclient. Unfortunately, it takes URLs as arguments, not filenames or urls with no protocol prefix. Here's a little script called 'k' that wraps kfmclient with a more friendly interface.