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Green, Wireless Networking

Posted by ryuzaki0 on from the self-made-challenges dept.

spacepleb writes "A solar and pedal powered bi-directional satellite connection shared out over 802.11b. Given the difficulty of satellite connectivity alone in Europe, these guys turned some heads."

48 of 138 comments (clear)

  1. Pedal powered? by SeanTobin · · Score: 5, Funny

    I've got no idea what the link is about, but I'm guessing thier bicycle just got a lot harder to push.

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    Karma: SELECT `karma` FROM `users` WHERE `userid`=138474;
  2. Mirror by nelf · · Score: 5, Informative

    There is a mirror for this at
    http://mirror1.psand.net/green/

  3. My god, no posts and its slashdotted allready! by Huogo · · Score: 3, Informative

    Mirrior (if the page would finish downloading...):
    Here (note, this might have to be taken down, I'm not sure how MY site will handle the bandwidth, I'll keep a close eye on it.)

  4. Pedal power by anthony_dipierro · · Score: 2

    I wonder how much money my gym could save by using this concept...

    1. Re:Pedal power by sporty · · Score: 2

      Hold on a second. Just so that we can enjoy more callories, we justify more exercise.. to give back the callories... wtf.. doesn't this seem a little silly?

      --

      -
      ping -f 255.255.255.255 # if only

    2. Re:Pedal power by anthony_dipierro · · Score: 2

      Just so that we can enjoy more callories, we justify more exercise.. to give back the callories... wtf.. doesn't this seem a little silly?

      Yeah, but lots of things we do to make ourselves more attractive to the opposite sex are silly.

      Anyway, I looked it up. You get about $0.01/hour of electricity per bike... So, not worth it.

    3. Re:Pedal power by silentbozo · · Score: 2

      A single bike isn't worth it. However, for a gym owner with dozens of bikes, all of which currently dump the power generated as heat (they use magnetic resistance, in the form of a generator hooked up to big banks of resistors, with a little power bled off to run the computer), you can save quite a bit in air-conditioning costs, while paying for lighting to boot.

      Besides, .01 pays for 200 watts of electricity (at least it does in Los Angeles), more than enough to power your computer and monitor. Might as well use that pedaling to crunch RC5 keys before converting it to heat...

    4. Re:Pedal power by silentbozo · · Score: 2
      all of which currently dump the power generated as heat (they use magnetic resistance, in the form of a generator hooked up to big banks of resistors, with a little power bled off to run the computer), you can save quite a bit in air-conditioning costs


      I don't think it works that way. Just as much, in fact, slightly more heat would still be produced. I mean, it seems the second law of thermodynamics would imply that.

      I think you misunderstood me. Exercise bikes currently take all the work you put into them and converts it to heat. What I proposed, is you could avoid the heat production by channelling the power generated by the generators already hooked up to me bikes to the electrical grid, instead of to the resistors on the bike that are currently bleeding the generated power as heat.

      Nothing here violates the 2nd law - air conditioning costs would go down because you would no longer have to cool down all these machines, as that power is off doing work elsewhere, rather than in the actual gym. Yes, you'd still generate heat during the generation process, as it's not 100% efficient, but you wouldn't be converting 100% of it into heat, immediately in the gym, as it currently works.

      The onboard bike computer doesn't get 200 watts, because most of that generated power is bled off as heat, through the resistor banks, which provides the resistance to the pedals.
  5. Green satellites? by Boiling_point_ · · Score: 5, Funny

    Now all we need is a three hundred metre tall trebuchet to launch the satellite itself into orbit, and we're as green as Kermit :)

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    "If you create user accounts, by default, they will have an account type of Administrator with no password." KB Q293834
  6. Green? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    All those people pedaling the bicycle were producing carbon dioxide, which leads to global warming.

    1. Re:Green? by anthony_dipierro · · Score: 3, Insightful

      And how do humans get their energy? From local farms, at the best. No, these people would have done a lot more good for the environment by using a diesel generator and soy oil biodiesel fuel. Yeah, the solar panels are maybe as energy efficient as biodiesel, but as they mention they produce very little energy, in this case only 85 Watts or so.

    2. Re:Green? by anthony_dipierro · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Generators are banned by the powers that be at the "Green Gathering" whatever they are running on, this may not be correct, but this is how it is.

      So a biodiesel powered generator that burns soy oil and creates carbon dioxide is banned, but a human powered generator that burns soybeans and creates carbon dioxide as well, but does so at a lower efficiency isn't.

      Just goes to show the short-sightedness of these Greens.

    3. Re:Green? by doc_side · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Think of it more like this.

      The world is more or less set up as a closed eco-system. Any sort of process occuring that is a build up of any substance probably has something that gets rid of it. Trees turn carbon dioxide into oxygen, and we turn oxygen into carbon dioxide. Everything is in equallibrium. I even heard this theory that if you burned a certain number of plants, the system wouldn't collapse right away, and even if you burned a lot of plants, the whole ecosystem wouldn't collapse, just scale down in size, thus keeping the equallibrium.

      This discussion leads us to how fossil fuels are causing us harm. See, these fuels are plants that died a long time ago, and for all intents and puroposes, are not within this above ground ecosystem naturally. Thus, we are bringing from outside an ammount of carbon dioxide that this system is able to handle. With nothing to process it or use it, we are creating an excess of it with nowhere to go except up. :)

    4. Re:Green? by anthony_dipierro · · Score: 2

      This discussion leads us to how fossil fuels are causing us harm. See, these fuels are plants that died a long time ago, and for all intents and puroposes, are not within this above ground ecosystem naturally.

      Nonsense. Watt for watt, fossil fuels produce less CO2 than humans. Yes, one person pedaling a bike doesn't create very much CO2, but they also don't create very much electricity.

    5. Re:Green? by Random+Data · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Yes, one person pedaling a bike doesn't create very much CO2, but they also don't create very much electricity.

      Perhaps if wedid move to personal poewr generation along the lines of a pedal power generator, or a bank of solar cells on the roof, appliances might become more energy efficient?

      I've got a 10W halogen globe rigged into a bike light . If I can ride a bike off road at 30km/h (~20mph) by this, I can read a book by it. But I tend to use the 100W incandescent in the lounge room, or the 50W halogen in my desk lamp, simply because that's what's easily available.

      If I were truly green I'd swap all those high power globes for smaller ones and rewire the house to run off renewable resources, and use portable lamps closer to what I'm doing rather than a big "light the whole room" one. But that doesn't stop me from wondering why it's such common practice to throw gobs of power into basic tasks.

    6. Re:Green? by anthony_dipierro · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Perhaps if wedid move to personal poewr generation along the lines of a pedal power generator, or a bank of solar cells on the roof, appliances might become more energy efficient?

      More likely we simply would have to give up on many appliances. I mean, in general yes, if you raise the cost of energy, you are going to see more energy efficient products, but so what? I'm all for keeping reasonable taxes on pollution producing products, but beyond that the free market will take care of utilizing our resources in the most efficient manner.

    7. Re:Green? by anthony_dipierro · · Score: 2

      So put a fat guy on the bike who needs the excersize anyway.

      There aren't enough "fat guys" (or bikes) to come anywhere near the kind of energy consumption this country needs. But hey, the same argument could be made for biodiesel. Just use old McDonalds waste oil. But just like the supply of fat guys, that's a short-sighted solution, because it'll take a very small chunk out of our current energy needs.

      Now you're using energy that would have been wasted.

      Unless you're advocating forced labor, it's not energy that would have been wasted.

      You seem to be forgetting that the humans are going to be breathing whether you burn extra fuel or not.

      Humans breathe much heavier when riding a bike. They also burn more in calories.

      Just goes to show the short-sightedness of you.

    8. Re:Green? by crush · · Score: 2

      So a biodiesel powered generator that burns soy oil and creates carbon dioxide is banned, but a human powered generator that burns soybeans and creates carbon dioxide as well, but does so at a lower efficiency isn't.

      All right. Let's see the figures that show that a biodiesel generator is "more efficient" than a guy on a bike at producing power? Note that "efficiency" in this argument is specifically "efficiency in production of electrical energy per unit of carbon dioxide released".
      I am deeply skeptical that a biodiesel generator could come anywhere near to a guy on a bike providing power as-and-when it is needed. The generator probably needs to run continuously producing the same amount of CO2 regardless of the actual load upon it. A bike powered generator just needs someone to hop on and start pedalling. Please note that in your calculations you have to use _only_ the extra CO2 produced by the pedalling human above his normal basal level of respiration.

  7. They could have.. by mrgrey · · Score: 2, Funny

    They could have just burned the grease from the guys hair that was peddling the bike to create enough steam power to power the whole camp... That or they could have made candles out of it and turned all the lights off.

    Sorry, but those dreads look pretty nasty....

    --
    -Tolerate my intolerance
  8. Pedal Faster by peatbakke · · Score: 5, Funny

    ... the server's been slashdoted. :)

  9. Another Mirror by adelayde · · Score: 5, Informative

    Another mirror of this to be found here.

  10. Love this bit... by shut_up_man · · Score: 2, Funny

    Amongst adult users, in general, females seemed to be more proficient and less complaining than males when given free use of the network. Males complained more, and were less open to learning. This was an overall feeling between us after the 5 days.

    Guess they weren't in tune with the Earth Mother, or something...

  11. mirror by jazperbg · · Score: 3, Informative

    and yet another mirror, here (the images may still be downloading from the original site for a wee while)

    --
    jasp
  12. not just stupid treehuggers by teqo · · Score: 5, Insightful
    25 comments, and everybody besides the valuable mirror people (thx!) is trying to be funny... I cannot refrain from the idea this must have to do with the /. community perception of these people as just being wierd treehuggers, but a) how is this less hackish or nerdish than other fringe hardware hacking, like setting up overclocked boards in fridges or similar stuff which always gets applauded here, and b) this in fact isn't useless, not because it actually solves energy problems, but it rather points to environmental issues someone needs to address...

    Maybe its too bad for their /. appreciation that its called the Big Green Gathering and not HAL or Chaos Communication Camp.. Nonetheless they have done a nice and valuable hack, and a green one too...

    1. Re:not just stupid treehuggers by swb · · Score: 5, Insightful

      b) this in fact isn't useless, not because it actually solves energy problems, but it rather points to environmental issues someone needs to address...

      What's the proportion of energy used to *make* all the comms gear they have vs. the energy it actually takes to power it? 100:1?

      In other words, what's the total energy cost of the product (production, distribution, use) and what percentage are you actually saving? Is it the equivilent of not running the A/C in your 400-cubic-inch-V8-powered SUV because it gives you a tiny payback in gas mileage?

    2. Re:not just stupid treehuggers by teqo · · Score: 2, Interesting
      What's the proportion of energy used to *make* all the comms gear they have vs. the energy it actually takes to power it? 100:1?

      Yep, you are right. That's one reason I said they address, yet do not solve the problem, because its not solved in an efficent way, plus its not very convenient... Alone considering the amount of energy and resources put into the production of their AirBases and notebooks outnumbers what they save through bike power by far. IMHO their approach does not qualify as a solution, but more as a hackish project, which can function as a reminder, maybe even as kinda proof-of-concept, and that's it.

      On the other hand, if somebody would try to develop some environmental-friendly way of powering outdoor notebooks or whatever, this development would initially waste far more energy than it would save, hopefully paying off in the long run. I see that their project is no research effort or something similar serious, but asking for 'greener' solutions and at the same time rejecting the trade-off of initially higher resource usage for the sake of resource-friendly solutions would end up in dumping all technology and doing LANs and WANs with drums, becoming the infamous treehugger person.

      That's my two Eurocent at least...

    3. Re:not just stupid treehuggers by anthony_dipierro · · Score: 2

      25 comments, and everybody besides the valuable mirror people (thx!) is trying to be funny...

      I wasn't.

      how is this less hackish or nerdish than other fringe hardware hacking, like setting up overclocked boards in fridges or similar stuff which always gets applauded here

      True...

      this in fact isn't useless, not because it actually solves energy problems, but it rather points to environmental issues someone needs to address...

      What, that the environmentalists are hypocrites who waste just as much energy as the rest of us?

      Nonetheless they have done a nice and valuable hack, and a green one too...

      Pedaling a bike for power? That's neither valuable nor green.

    4. Re:not just stupid treehuggers by SubtleNuance · · Score: 2

      What, that the environmentalists are hypocrites who waste just as much energy as the rest of us

      Well, without engaging your 8th grade debate technique, Ill simply say your probably pretty wrong.

      Im as green as they come, a #1 tree-hugger, and I can tell you, I watch my coworkers, neighbours and family pollute and waste endlessly. Try riding your bike to work. Leave bags and packaging on the counter at the grocer. Grow a garden. Compost. Recycle. Pick up random trash when walking in parks and put them in your pocket. Dont use paint where you dont have to. Plant trees. Use an electric lawnmower (infrequently enough to get letters from city-hall). Let 90% of your lawn grow at its own will. Have your shoes repaired. Buy organic-cotten clothing at a co-operative. By organic groceries and support local farmers. Dont eat at chain-restaurants.

      ...and tell loud-mouthes on slashdot -- who call OTHERS HYPOCRITES TO SATIFSY THEIR OWN GUILT AND PROVIDE SHALLOW-JUSTIFICATION FOR THEIR OWN MISDEEDS to @#$@-Off .

      Im not greener-than-though pal, but I resent the implied justification for your OWN ACTIONS you present by calling someone a hypocrite.

    5. Re:not just stupid treehuggers by anthony_dipierro · · Score: 2

      What, that the environmentalists are hypocrites who waste just as much energy as the rest of us

      Well, without engaging your 8th grade debate technique, Ill simply say your probably pretty wrong.

      Touche, I was being hyperbolic.

      Im not greener-than-though pal, but I resent the implied justification for your OWN ACTIONS you present by calling someone a hypocrite.

      What actions are that? You don't know me, and you don't know what my actions are.

      By organic groceries and support local farmers. Dont eat at chain-restaurants.

      Do you have any data backing up whether or not that is more energy efficient? I would think that communal cooking would be much more energy efficient than individualized cooking.

    6. Re:not just stupid treehuggers by crush · · Score: 2

      In other words, what's the total energy cost of the product (production, distribution, use) and what percentage are you actually saving? Is it the equivilent of not running the A/C in your 400-cubic-inch-V8-powered SUV because it gives you a tiny payback in gas mileage?

      And your argument is that the guy in the SUV who saves 1 out of every 10,000 Watts he expends would be better off running the A/C? Even if the other 100,000 SUV users also do the same and between them they consume 100,000 Watts less? Huh?!!!

    7. Re:not just stupid treehuggers by SubtleNuance · · Score: 2

      What actions are that? You don't know me, and you don't know what my actions are.

      just as you cant brand Treehuggers hypocrites. Simple.

      Do you have any data backing up whether or not that is more energy efficient? I would think that communal cooking would be much more energy efficient than individualized cooking.

      Organic, locally produced foods are unprocessed, better for you (free of chemicals), more-nutritionally-rich (fresher), better for the environment (dont contribute to pollution), dont require transportation (ie: boxed and driven across hell's-half-acre), maintain biodiversity because local-farmers maintain heritage varieties. You support decentralized control which helps avoid the corporatization* of the food supply (pay or starve scenario's by the mega-wealthy)... etc etc.

      as for chain foods, they are nutritionally appalling (bad for you), again, you supporting a system of centralized control (by people with perpendicular motivations to their efforts (making money is unrelated to feeding people)), chain restaurants rely on packaged/processed foods shipped from afar, use disposable everything, pay people minimum wage and crush union efforts. chain-restaurants are a product (and source) of marketing bombardment and encourage consumer culture, these are also wasteful. Advertising is meant to coerce, to lead you to a decision that benefits someone's selfish motivation. The Mental Environment suffers because of it.

      ...as for communal cooking (or central food-prep) vs. individual cooking... im sure a Intentional Community's central cooking facility one within a short walk of a few hundred people is an environmental benefit. But im willing to bet that the idea that everyone should jump in their Internal-Combustion-Engine powered car and drive down to a %burger_joint% far overcomes the savings in your proposed-scenario.
      *

    8. Re:not just stupid treehuggers by anthony_dipierro · · Score: 2

      except that we dont - does the lcoal factory pay for the air pollution it causes?

      Yep - through taxes.

      uses? does mcblondblands pay for the increased health costs of its obese patients [presumably you meant customers]?

      Yes. Through lowered demand and therefore lower product costs.

      patients? does the auto-driver (solely) pay the cost of the roads (s)he uses?

      Sure, through gasoline taxes.

      does the yacht owner pay for the oil he spills in the lake?

      Yep, when s/he gets sued.

      does the gap pay to replace the forest that was cut to grow cotton for the 1231th needless pc of clothing the average-western-teenager DOESNT NEED (it brainwashes the unwashed masses to believe they NEED %something%)?

      Yep, they pay for that cost when they buy the cotton.

      does the local starbucks come and pick up the trash-paper-cups from my yard?

      The ones that they put there? They sure better. On the other hand, if you put the cups there, that's your problem.

      so, in the end, we have a economic system that doesnt account - completely - for all the costs... our Capitalist system EXTERNALIZES and SOCIALIZES costs and INTERNALIZES profit.

      It's not quite perfect. There are still a few economic goods/bads which we don't account for, but you haven't come up with any of them.

      do you see the disconnect?

      Yeah, I've taken Economics classes, and you haven't.

  13. difficulty of sattelite connectivity in Europe? by jonbrewer · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I wonder why the poster thinks satellite connectivity is difficult in Eurpoe... what is s/he comparing to? I found that there are more satellite Internet providers serving Europe and the Middle East than North America, by far!

    1. Re:difficulty of sattelite connectivity in Europe? by nelf · · Score: 4, Informative

      As it goes, Ku band downlink using the DVB-RCS standard which lets you get higher speed 2-way satellite links has been very difficult to get hold of in Europe up until very recently... the equipment we used was still under development at the time we carried out the activities in the article, and we are only now starting to see this sort of technology come to market, either in the UK or elsewhere in Europe... we've been after this sort of kit for about 4 years and we had to work very hard to get hold of it.

  14. Will the power be doubled if.. by rob-fu · · Score: 2, Funny

    they used a two-seater bike so two people could pedal at once? Or maybe they could hire Lance Armstrong for a LAN party...

    "Lance, pedal faster, my ping sucks"

    1. Re:Will the power be doubled if.. by notanatheist · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I'll pedal with Lance!! Surely he'd whip my ass but the thrill of pedaling along side one of history's greater cyclists couldn't be beat. Oh yeah, this has to be one of the better received sites for a /.'ing. Never seen anyone prepared faster to accept that much incoming traffic.

  15. These guys are sell outs! by Treeluvinhippy · · Score: 3, Funny

    Green internet connection huh? Well lets see here... hmm depends on a sattelite with an apple airport for a connection and yet no mention of all the pollutants released in the atmosphere from the rocket.

    Lots of plastic chairs in the pictures that's not good.

    Cars! My god these people drove!

    Looks to me like it's just a bunch of yuppies doing their yearly feel-good protect the earth thing, and getting some excercise at the same time. When I saw that pic of the dude on the excercise bike I thought "Go Speed Racer, Go Speed Racer Go!"

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    >
  16. Satellites *difficult* in Europe? by mdb31 · · Score: 2, Insightful
    Given the difficulty of satellite connectivity alone in Europe[...]

    Ehm, would anyone mind explaining what exactly is so difficult about satellite connectivity in Europe? From my experience in setting up systems all over the world, it's no more difficult (or easier) than setting up in the US or pretty much anywhere else (some fun regions in Africa or Asia excluded, where spotty coverage and 'rain fade' can really ruin the party - but Europe??)

    1. Re:Satellites *difficult* in Europe? by nelf · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The satellite connection used here uses the DVB-RCS standard to attain 2-way internet access. This equipment has only recently come to market. Two way satellite systems have been available the world over for many years, however higher speed uplink satellite have until recently only been affordable in Europe to organisations willing to invest large sums of money in expensive equipment. Older and more available VSAT (Very small aperture) satellites do not provide very fast or useable connections at all.
      The equivalent Inmarsat services cost somewhere in the region of 7 US dollars per minute. The system used in the posted article was 384K uplink, with downlink FTPs sustaining 100K FTP transfers. What easy to set up and affordable services are out there for the European market?

  17. Trouble in the best of times by Nkwe · · Score: 3, Interesting
    Even people expressing "anti-capitalist" views can fail to comprehend or apply the effort needed to avoid using heavily licensed corporate software, even though a viable community alternative is presented in a learning environment with on hand human support.
    I found this comment most interesting and telling. It seems that in a situation as ideally suited for open software and an open environment such as described, the audience would be eager to learn and use what is available. This comment suggests otherwise. Depressing. It seems that we have a long road and a long haul ahead.
  18. Re:Jobs out of Green Networking? by Random+Data · · Score: 2, Funny

    Would that mean the leading pedal pounder would get a Green Jersey as opposed to a Yellow one?

    Just for your info, the Green Jersey already exists. It's awarded to the rider with the most sprint points in The Tour de France . But it's the mountain bikers who are the real tree huggers... Wham! (ouch...)

  19. Great... the first Slashdot-related fatality... by tlambert · · Score: 3, Funny

    Great... the first Slashdot-related fatality...

    "Too much web traffic kills Internet bicyclist..."

    -- Terry

  20. human exhaust by castlan · · Score: 2

    a "fat guy" on a bike will breathe much harder than a fat guy sitting on a couch. He needs the excersize for his own health. I would argue that his decomposing corpse would provide value by enriching the soil, but odds are fairly good that he would be embalmed first, negating that theory.

    I guess It's really hard to know which side of this argument to take without a definitive measurement of the average "fat guy" flatulence and expiration, to subtract from the pulminary output of the fatty in motion, to compare to the efficiency of the alternative machine. Then the appropriate solution will have to be deployed to a large enough scale to make the efforts expended during the study worthwhile.

    I dunno about personal attacks or political attacks, but really all of ths is quite silly. That is the point... if it is enjoyable and not eggregiously harmful then it is the right thing to do. Anything having to do with Outer Space, or even outer orbit seems contrary to the Green philosophies as I understand them. A low impact, gradual reduction of industry seems to be the obvious stance, I really am not convinced that technological progress at this point in time is conducive to the Green Parties' goals. Perhaps a non-radical Luddism is how I see it.

    That said, if fat guys on bikes can supplant "artificial" industrial machinery, then it seems to be a good thing. Leave the Petrol-derived carbon in the ground, let the photosynthesized carbon be put to work. Raw energy efficiency can be misleading if the source of the energy is fossil-fuel.

    By the way, bull-shit is a good alternative to fossil fuel, is it not? Better than reading the article!

  21. Bexdorf? by Lev_Arris · · Score: 2, Informative

    Just FYI there's a little spelling mistake: The 'Astra Broadband Interactive Hub' is probably in Betzdorf, Luxembourg (http://www.ses-astra.com/tools/contact/index.shtm l) rather than in 'Bexdorf'. To be exact it's at the 'Château de Betzdorf' which can be seen here: http://be.sun.com/aboutsun/ezine/library/images/in stallation.jpg (Link taken from this article http://be.sun.com/aboutsun/ezine/library/ses_astra .html on Sun's site).

    For those who don't know Astra, they're one of the largest (if the the largest) satellite operators here in Europe doing mostly TV broadcasting. They've also got a picture gallery showing the NOC and the sats on their site: http://www.astra.lu/press-info/documentation/galle ry/index.php

  22. Serious implications for IP in Africa by ites · · Score: 2, Insightful

    (And possibly South America and Asia)
    In most of Africa the only way to get online is a $5000/month VSAT satellite base station.
    A pedal-powered link may sound funny to some of you but you are laughing from a position of privilege.
    A $1000 satellite station would bring the Internet to billions of people.
    And this would remove a significant obstacle to development in many places.

    --
    Sig for sale or rent. One previous user. Inquire within.
  23. More usefull Power System by schimmi · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Using Power-converters for car-usage whould have saved some of the Power.Converting 12V DC up to 220V AC and back down to xxVDC (16V for the IBM-Laptopsand the Powerbooks) is much worse then direct conversion

  24. Transmitter radiation by phorm · · Score: 2

    There are major health considerations when setting up the transmit hardware

    Being that I don't know much about the ranges wherein these transmissions become dangerous, it would be cool if somebody "in the know" could elaborate more on this. Can you actually fry people's brains with these satellites, or create cancer-causing radiation?

    My parents have a mini-dish in their back yard, somewhat similar to the one shown on this page. It's mounted pretty low, so I think that it would be about head-level on a tall person. Should I recommend that it be moved lest they cause somebody brain damage?

    That explains the voices in my head - phorm

    1. Re:Transmitter radiation by mikeb · · Score: 2

      A friend of mine who's heavily into E-M-E ham radio (Earth-Moon-Earth) pushes around 2KW into a 20dB gain antenna and managed to kill a tree at the bottom of his garden with it - some 20 yards from the antenna array.

      On the other hand, ordinary DBS satellite downlinks don't transmit any significant power and are entirely safe.

      If you also have to provide an uplink (like the one in this article had to do) then they do transmit. Although the power levels are much lower than my dangerous friend, they still should be treated with caution. I personally wouldn't want to be much less than about ten yards from the direct beam of the uplink, and even then I would try to avoid standing directly in the beam at any times other than the minimum essential.