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Microsoft foils Xbox hackers with new Config
randomizer9 writes was among several readers who noted that Microsoft has changed the configs on the XBox and really messed up the hackers who have been trying to coax the box into being divx players, linux boxes, microwave ovens, white noise generators and so on. Kinda doubt the conspiracy angle, but it certainly is annoying.
You, of all the people, are giving Microsoft benefit of the doubt?! Not had your coffee yet, Taco?
Nonsense. If *course* they made changes to the system to foil hackers (described as 'security' chances).
Even the article says "Microsoft has tried several tactics to discourage such hacks."
Microsoft has a *LONG* history of doing this sort of thing, going back to the Dr-Dos days. And, for them, it is a legal and legitimate response to a threat on their business model.
An arms race will ensue..
Let's see... MS updates their bios and changes some of their chips. Now the boxes can't be hacked. The next thing you know someone will post a story about how the new boxes can be hacked which will be followed by the horror that the next updates will defeat those hacks. Oh the humanity.
Because god forbid that we actually run custom software on a piece of hardware we supposedly 'own'..
It really *IS* a case of "It's not a bug-it's a security feature".
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts."
- adam
I really don't like the way the word "security" is being used to mean "preventing the owner of the system from using it as he sees fit."
In my mind security means only letting the owner use the system as he sees fit.
-Peter
What the "hackers" really need to do is make use of undocumented features in ways that every home user will want to use. Then Microsoft wouldn't dare remove them -- I remember this happening several times in the old days of the Palm Pilot (Remember all those *Hack programs?)
I might have bought an XBox if I could use it as a general purpose entertainment device. Now I won't buy one at all. That's an odd way of moving units and increasing your market share.
I don't think it's that insightful, but people buy stuff if they like what they can do with it. Nobody that I'm aware of has a black market XBox manufacturing plant - every piece of hardware is purchased through Microsoft. Nobody that I'm aware of without an XBox is buying XBox games. If I can't get my hypothetical XBox hacked, I'm not buying one, and I'm sure as hell not buying an XBox game or dozen.
How long until we see this headline "Hackers foil Microsoft's "new Config" with new Modchip"?
Did you even stop to think for one second that maybe they went with a larger, passive cooling solution?
"Disabled the fan", my ass.. the article says they removed it. So they must have found a way to passively cool the chip sufficiently, or maybe they have a more efficient rev of the chip..but there's no way they would slow the chip down, as that could cause compatibility problems with the existing games, which were coded for a box that offers uniform performance across the board.
Could the X-Box be a prototype for Palladium/DRM-secure hardware?
... enough of conspiracy theories for one day...
They release a product that they consider secure(the v1.0 X-Box), let the public pry away at it for a while, knowing the hacking consoles(especially with one as tasty as the X-Box) is an already established industry.
Then, once it is hacked to a reasonable level, they revise the hardware to be more secure...
Shake well, repeat...
Basically, MS gets a free hacking team to test (fanatically) their security systems... The only negative point is that some of the hackers release how they did it to the public.
All of the knowledge/experience that they gain from this security cycle will go directly into their security model for DRM "secure" PC hardware...
Sticks and Stones may break my bones, but copyright will always protect me.
where there's a damn about to burst, and it keeps springing leaks. All they do is stick their fingers in the leaks... eventually, they run out of fingers, and start using toes. Then the toes run out.
Eventually Microsoft will run out of digits (as in the fingers & toes). If you want to keep a system secure, you can't be reactionary. You can't wait for a leak to spring up, and then stick a finger in it.
And that's part of the whole problem with the MS culture - it's not a problem until it's exploited. Then you fix it. This is the best reason I can give you as to why not to use MS products. 'Cause they don't give a fuck until something's seriously broken. And then, it's too damn late.
-- james
Not likely. The changes are mostly on the hardware backend, the developers will probably never know the difference. MS may be evil but they are not stupid. The changes will only affect the 'chippers.
Now, one might say that the 'chippers will just come out with a new chip everytime MS updates. But wait, lack of customer confidence that the chip will actually work in their box, and the cost of developing and more importantly (and costly) producing the new chips will quickly drive the 'chippers out of business.
So, the question is: is it worse to sue the 'chippers, or just beat them at their own game?
Yes. Are you new here?
I feel bad for the game developers and companies...
it's bad enuff having to test the shit out of a console game to make sure there is NO way it can ever crash/freeze/break... but now you have to support different BIOS', hardware revs for chips potentially and who knows what else.
What happens when a loose QA procedure somewhere allows a game to slip out that runs fine on the "old" xboxs but crashes on the "new" xbox?
And what's this about no fan on the nvidia chip? they probably did a study and found that it takes exactly 15 months for chip to burn out with decreased cooling, which puts them 3 months outside warrantee. Either that or they're pulling that speedstep-wannabe clocking bullshit where it clocks down when it gets hot, which I'm sure will be great for gameplay on a console system where the hardware is normally supposed to be static!
Xbox is probably containing the exact same technology as Palladium and this is testing ground for the PC version. Thus its of vital importance for MS to show that its unhackable to keep support from music/movie industry on palladium.
If it shows that Palladium is just another dongle and fail as DRM its going to dissapear.
HTTP/1.1 400
>> ...MS does not want anyone but MS makeing (sic) changes to the Xbox. Sounds like more closed source to me.
Does that surprise you? Why would you think the Xbox is anything but a closed source, proprietary platform? MS can do whatever they want with it. If you don't like the changes, you can complain, but MS cares about the game revenue the box generates (which is why it exists in the first place).
By the way, I don't see this as a conspiracy. Where're the other conspirators?
-- Slashdot: When Public Access TV Says "No"
The first web page with detailed instructions on "How to hack the XBox MkII" has just been by M. Joe Schmoe, of Peoria, Ill.
Film at 11.
The right to offend is far more important than the right not to be offended. (Rowan Atkinson)
If memory serves, Sony made iterative changes to the PS1 over the course of its run, which negated mod chips that worked in earlier 'generations'. I believe the same is true with the PS2, but someone can confirm or deny that for me. Anyway, hey it's within their rights as the developers of the hardware to discourage what they perceive is hacking. It's also within our rights as consumers to be able to work around anything they do. :)
"I'm a leaf on the wind. Watch how I soar."
-Hoban Washburn
on your point 2, DVD hardware manufacturers could not care less whether or not you chip your DVD player. They make back every cent and then some when they sell you the hardware. If Hollywood never sold a DVD it wouldn't matter, in the short term anyway. In the long term it would definitely be less of an incentive for people to buy DVD players now wouldn't it?
Anyway, my point is, console manufacturers count on games being sold. Sony does it, Nintendo does it, Sega used to do it and not Microsoft does it. This isn't some dirty little secret of the console industry nor it is some new conspiracy of Microsoft's. When you allow consoles to me modded you offer fewer reasons for the users to purchase the games and you wind up losing money. When you allow DVD players to be modded you don't lose anything at all.
By the same token, Microsoft should be able to do anything with the hardware before you've bought it. If, for whatever reason, that prevents you from "hacking" it after you've bought it, then don't buy it!
Whats good for the gander, is good for the goose.
It's not illegal for you to customize your XBox, but that doesn't mean that MS should make it easy. I don't like the fact that Microsoft refers to this as "increasing the security of the XBox," but I can see why they use that term over "decreasing the usability."
However, the XBox is no longer really that good a deal as a generic X86 box. You can get hardware from Walmart.com for $200, and they even pre-install Linux on the machine.
There isn't really a reason to buy an XBox, unless of course you absolutely have to play Halo.
While I do agree with you that once you own an X-Box, you should be able to do anything you want with it. But this doesn't mean that Microsoft has to make it easy for you. These boxes are sold for $199 each, less than comparable PC hardware. If people could easily modify the X-Box, then people would buy them for the purpose of having a cheap computer, rather than buy them for the purpose of playing X-Box games - which is what Microsoft wants you to do. So, Microsoft makes it harder to hack the X-Box. Too bad. The only reasonable response isn't to whine about it - it's to hack harder, or give up and don't hack the X-Box. Attacking Microsoft for attempting to prevent the unintended use of its product, which incidentally destroys its business model, is silly.
144l. ph34r my 133t l3g4l 5k1lz!
With everything that they know now, the X-Box hackers won't take long to figure out a way to do this. It's always been this way with all consoles. Someone always finds a way.
Microsoft may have a lot of money, but they aren't going to keep modifying their manufacturing facilities unless it means saving money on production. I doubt that they are going to churn out a drastically different X-Box every month in order to thwart hacks...
The PS2 and XBox aren't that tightly integrated and have a bigger parts count. (Nintendo makes money on game console hardware while Sony and Microsoft don't. That's why.) But in the next generation, we should expect to see machines that are basically one big chip inside. This will be the end of modchips.
Yes, it's possible to open up an IC and modify it. The ATI/Nvidia article shows the millions of dollars of equipment needed. But even that doesn't help much. Now that everybody uses boot-time public/private key authentication, even opening up the chip won't get you the private key you'd need to make content that will load on an unmodified box. So far, no one has been able to get an unapproved program to load on an unmodified XBox.
There won't be backdoors. Read the license agreement for DVD decoder manufacturers.
The problem is that $200 hardware from WalMart is exactly that -- $200. It's probably (now this is just a guess) full of cut rate components. Where as from numerous postings of its components across the net, we know that the X-box contains some pretty decent hardware. Also, it's being sold below cost (or at least it -was-), so the worth of the components is actually > $200.
mstyne: real name, no gimmicks
The rub is that they make up the money on the games (after all how much does a game ACTUALLY cost to make?)
This comment is terribly uninformed.
The short answer: it costs millions of dollars to make a game.
The physical medium (the DVD and package) may only cost a few dollars to reproduce, but the data on that disc costs millions to develop.