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Tiny Integrated Home Theater PC w/Display
Mark J. Foster writes "After searching for a solution that would let me control my home theater PC without disturbing the video to the projector, I finally decided to roll my own. I've integrated a Shuttle SS40G, with a Xenarc
700Y RGB-interfaced 800x480 TFT widescreen LCD: The fully-integrated package looks like this. For full details, check out my 'Special Edition' Shuttle 40G." This machine reminds me of the "lunchbox" style of PCs, but this one's got a much smaller footprint. Excellent mod.
You'd want to be careful that you didn't get this confused with your microwave... although both would look great if you put a dvd in 'em and turned them on 'high'.
Does this make my brain look big?
...last night, and the movie got to a really quiet romantic scene.
I think the guy was about to propose, but I was startled by an almighty BONG and a 3 foot by 1 foot modal dialog box covering most of the screen politely informing me that a newer version of Windows Media Player was available.
Microsoft: Don't do that.
In 1989, Andy Warhol said 'Tiny is the new big.' I'm inclined to agree.
In today's society it's not what you've got, it's what you've not got and not having a 60" plasma TV with surround sound but having a 8" with two tinny speakers is what we're all aiming for.
I applaud you, Sir. Your device looks like a cross between a 1950's kitchen appliance, a miniaturized techno fridge, and a Mac Cube, and would be at home in any quiche eating Pascal programmer or Mac user's home.
mogorific carpentry experiments
The screen looks cool, the shuttle case looks cool. Why go through all the fuss? I doubt the space gained is relevant.
For a homemade it's quite ok though.
We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
I was at the library the other night going through some past issues of MaximumPC and ran across a great do-it-yourself article on building a home theater unit. They used a rack-mount case complete with a dvd burner and RAID to create a kickass PVR that is accessible via remote. I wasn't able to find the article online. Anyone know of any similar setups?
I'd go for a Mini ITX with the screen. This would yeild an even smaller solution.
So what? Sometimes I don't care about practicality either - I love it. The thing is simply cool.
Cheers,
Ian
(still awaiting Shuttle's SN40 release...)
I am currently building something similar with a mini-itx system.
However, in this case, I would have done the end program on a PDA like a Sony CLIE because the PC box is cumbersome and displaying big arrows can be done on a small 320x320 display as well. The PDA should talk to some device with its IR so the barebone PC could be used for that, but without any display!
After several years of failed tentatives in home integration, I believe these applicances are going to solve the problem. Still, we need Lego to provide a "homestorm" box to build these appliances more easily!
I was just wondering: Why didn't you use the touchscreen model from Xenarc? It would make much more sense to do it that way.
View my mirror of the pictures here
...there seems something very wrong with associating the word "tiny" with a "home theater".
"Ask not what your country can do for you." --John F. Kennedy
The pictures I'm referring to come from ftp://ftp.talix.com/pub/screenshots/shuttle -- Mark J. Foster's FTP site. (Oooo, I'm evil for posting that address... hey, at least I didn't make it a link!)
Mark, that thing is gorgeous!!! I love the idea, I've been thinking about small screens, just not quite like what you've put together. Bravo, well done, extraordinary work!
(Shuttle ought to hire you to build these for them to show off / auction off at trade shows!)
One thing I noticed, though... in ftp://ftp.talix.com/pub/screenshots/shuttle/Shuttl eBack.jpg the pile of power cables (I think there might be a power brick in there for the (external) monitor?), cords, and assorted connectors (don't forget the power strip, too!) is almost half the size of the computer itself!
Ouch.
Next project -- integrate a wireless keyboard & mouse, single-cable connection for the external monitor that includes power, video and audio, and a single power supply that will drive everything. (Yeah, I know, sorta like a Mac with their combined video/USB connection. Hey, I never claimed it was an original idea.)
"...America's great minds of today, teaching America's great minds of tomorrow. Poor bastards." -- A Beautiful Min
... yeah, yeah, I know... _No one_ would build a unit like this without having a real purpose.
This gotta beat watching Pr0n on a phone!
Look at the size of the LCD, it's a pain to read from almost any distance.
--Mike
Those were paper towels. It must've been on his kitchen counter, NOT his bathroom.
--Mike
In a living room setup, where do you put this? If you put it in an entertainment center, you won't be able to read the display from the seating area. Do you put it on a table near the seating and run cables across the floor to the projector?
The material is called Acrylite GP, and it is optically flawless to the naked eye, with very high light transmissivity. Viewability from a distance is obviously an issue due to the size of the panel, but the image is crystal-clear!
Good Luck!
MarkF
I would assume the LCD is under the 'plexiglas' so that it can't be damaged/scratched?
That would be very cool - the perfect way to build a Pixar render farm!
Cheers!
MarkF
What if instead of the small display, you used an x session (or terminal server for windows) to control the playback? That way, you can have the shortest cable possible between the cpu and the projector and still be able to control it from anywhere (assuming you have 802.11).
I don't know of a way to control playback from a seperate session, but there is probably a simple way to do it.
Hi, SB! You, you've nailed it. That's one reason why I chose not to use a touchscreen. The other is that I prefer the clean appearance of the system when the panel is turned off - the monitor essentially disappears!
Have Fun!
MarkF
It hasn't been around that long. I just finished it to this stage early Sunday morning...
Without my HTPC and the Girder automation program, I'd need [b]8[/b] remote controls. I'm sure an octopus wouldn't mind, but I do!
Hi, Nonac!
That works, too! I'm also playing with an iPAQ (MS - sorry) and a great package called NetRemote that lets you use that as a remote control via the iPAQ's built-in BlueTooth. If that works out, the display on the HTPC unit will primarily be for information purposes, displaying current song/title/artist/movie, etc.
Cheers!
MarkF
The question is why would anyone like to have one machine controling everything
Because it's more efficient?
A well designed HTPC can replace a CD changer, a DVD player, a pre-amp, tuner, a TiVo, and a scaler/deinterlacer. And even if you buy the cheapest AV equipment and the most expensive computer equipment you'll come out ahead on the HTPC side.
Not to mention that you have all of that in one box the size of a desktop computer.
The biggest problem remains the interface -- you can do a lot with programmable remote controls, but it's still not as simple or reliable as components. Probably the biggest issue is the feedback component. A pre-amp may have a simple LCD saying "CD" or "Tuner", but HTPC's tend to use Windows interfaces which are more intrusive and nearly impossible to use without some kind of video output.
Of course, you gain a lot of flexibility - you can do anything with the HTPC you can do with a regular computer - but try explaining how to watch TV to a visiting relative (heck, my mom had enough problems with the TiVo when I was on my honeymoon).
As usual, the hardware side of things has been conquered first. Now work has to be done on the usability. And doing things like integrating a small LCD screen onto the system does a lot toward that goal.
Does anyone know of anyone who made one of there shuttle computers bootonlan?
-Benjamin Meyer
Do you changes clothes while making the "chee-chee-cha-cha-choh" transformation sound?
- but try explaining how to watch TV to a visiting relative
You said it. but I get the point, its nice to have one thing to govern everything.
The only problem I can see here is that using a PC for that might hinder the functionality of the computer (to some degree).
You can get a Philips Pronto IR remote with a color touchscreen for far less than this guy spent on this thing, that would have let him control every IR device in the house. I'm all for hacking for hacking's sake, but no need to reinvent the wheel. Of course, if he just wanted a new PC and the HT control-thing was just an afterthought, then bravo.
*This page intentionally left pointless*
Mark,
Sorry, didn't mean to imply any of those cords were for the built-in monitor. I saw how you powered that one (very slick!), and read the whole thread (as it existed a couple hours ago) on the Sudhian Forums.
I was referring to your large, stand-alone LCD. I installed an 18" Viewsonic a couple months ago and it was powered through an external inline brick -- I couldn't tell if your large LCD had one or not.
The computers I build are generally a little larger than yours, although I did pair a SS50 with that Viewsonic LCD. With the trend for powering peripherals from a single connection (USB-powered Zip drives, Firewire-recharging iPods), perhaps manufacturers will get their act together and figure out how to drive external LCDs from the main computer's power supply. Add to that audio and USB connections, and all you need is a single cable (likely with several connectors at the computer end). Heck, most panels max out at ~100 watts (or so), easily available from most current full-size power supplies.
"...America's great minds of today, teaching America's great minds of tomorrow. Poor bastards." -- A Beautiful Min
I'm working on a home theater project myself, and have a Remote Control on the way.
I've seen the mod on the web, however, and it was a clever hack. Slashdotted now, but the flat pannel monitor had a goofy resolution he worked around with drivers. It would work if you did LAN parties... but I would rather pipe svideo (or a dvi out) to something that gave me a bigger picture for watching movies.
Course, the point of modding is usually because you can (grin)
+++ UGUCAUCGUAUUUCU
For your next trick, replace the LCD screen with an LCD touchpad, put a wireless video solution in place, then mount the touchpad right beside your viewing area. :-)
Vintage computer games and RPG books available. Email me if you're interested.
Generally you have a dedicated HTPC and don't try to use it for general computing tasks. Partially to reduce the chances of something getting screwed up on the HTPC, partially because it is a PITA to use as a regular PC (a lot of HTPC's don't have a monitor other than the primary theater display hooked up; using Quicken on a 8 foot diagonal screen is a bit absurd).
But just think about playing UT2k3 or Doom3 on that same 8 foot screen with full dolby digital surround.
Must be a slashdot record for the highest percentage of posts on a single story...
Sig (appended to the end of comments I post, 54 chars)
Apple does this with the ADC (Apple Desktop Connector). It is a standard developed by IBM a while ago.
It runs power, DVI, and usb over one cable to the monitor. The only problem is that the video card has to have a 24v connector on it also (i believe) to power the display. For people who don't have an Apple video card in their mac, or a pc, there are companies that sell an external powersupply that you run DVI + USB to, and then plug the ADC cable on the other side. I guess that is the closest you could get, unless gainward et all start designing video cards with ADC connectors and PSU adapters to power the display.
So he's plugged a monitor into a PC and it's small. So what? Why is this considered newsworthy on SlashDot? A laptop would have made a better mini cinema.
All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain.
this one
i can't belive they are proud of it..
Well, you know, that Mac connector was my inspiration (along with their beautiful cinema displays!) and I hope that connection scheme catches on. I'm not holding my breath, though.
ATI's Radeon 9700 draws so much power it requires a separate power connector. (The Radeon 8500DV has a power connector too, but that's for supplying power to the FireWire port.) I think one of the Voodoo cards did the same thing? At any rate, high power consumption on a video card is nothing new -- why not pass some through to the monitor as well. ATX power supplies have a +12 and a -12 line... there's your 24v potential.
- It'll make LCDs (cheaper | easier) to manufacture, since they can leave out a more complicated power supply.
- It'll make me happier (at least from an aesthetic perspective), since I'll have less clutter on my desk.
- It'll make Grandma (or Grandpa, who has to install the newfangled thing!) happier, due to easier and more obvious installation.
Oh, the hell with it. I'll just buy a Mac -- OS 10.2 looks really nice, I love their huge LCDs... all that's stopping me is the lack of a winning lottery ticket. (Since I view lotteries as a 'tax on stupid', I guess that's not happening.)Now that I think about it more, the monitor will come on when the computer is powered up -- another nice, damn easy feature. Yes, modern monitors have a power-save mode, but they still draw quite a bit of current while "saving power."
"...America's great minds of today, teaching America's great minds of tomorrow. Poor bastards." -- A Beautiful Min
The point is modding. Doing it yourself. Getting off that fat lazy ass and making something. Not getting off your fat lazy ass and buying something. Why do people even bother posting if they don't like the story. Just go to the next story and save this for the people who DO care.
No... in fact I don't have a real HT setup yet, for a variety of reasons.
But a 8' screen with a dolby digital setup can cost under $5000. It won't be top notch and I personally wouldn't settle for it, but it's not an utterly absurd price either.
We're not talking plasma screen here or anything - a used LCD projector can be had for $2-3k (maybe less), a screen is a couple hundred, and you can find cheapo receivers and speaker setups for under a grand.
For about $10k you can get a much better projector and a better sound setup. For about $15k you can get a way better projector (a very nice DLP or DILA setup), and an very good sound setup.
As with all things, it's merely a question of what you want to spend your money on.
That internal LCD is certainly not a critical as having a remote!! Grab yourself the SS51G, add a Radeon 8500 AIW which INCLUDES a remote and you're set for far more fun. You can do TV, DVD, and gaming on the same little cube!! Use a little Samba so I can grab my mp3s, load a playlist, and it's a perfect computer for the bedroom. That's all for my mini-rant. Thanks.
GeForce4 (or multi-out video card). Extended desktop. Main video for DVD's goes out via S-Video. I can't afford the projector (I assume he paid lots for this, unless somebody knows a cheap solution), but the video goes to the TV, and the controls,etc are all on my monitor. With a wireless mouse this would be nicer still. It's still a lot cheaper than a special LCD though.
Oh, and just because a card has TV-out, doesn't mean it has extended desktop. Another shot at ATI, for their "feature rich" All-in-wonder card that would only clone, not extend, my desktop).
If anyone knows a cheaper solution to making your own projection system... THEN I'll be listening eagerly.
Would you like to supersize that deathmatch? - phorm
was mocking the fashion demi-mondain slogan ____ is the new ____ and the play of substitution that constitutes fashion. If you give a bit of thought, I think you'll agree that Andy was not saying anything in particular about big or tiny.
illegitimii non ingravare
I think what would be cool is a hinge so that you put it on your desk and adjust the angle for better viewing.
Nice job, you must be entirely neglecting your day job today. :)
t.
I wonder how LOUD this thing is...
I have a shuttle sv24 and it's really loud. I started peeking and poking inside, and it turns out it's the internal power supply that makes all the noise.
I wonder how loud the other shuttle models are...
Though the shuttle has limited expansion slots, it would be kinda nice to have maybe a TV-Tuner display for one of the screens. I know that sounds wierd but.
.
.. picture next to picture.. heh (I must be drunk that sounds retarted)
you could watch a DVD on the big screen, and the news on the little screen and if it comes up with something you like, swap applications DVD plays on little screen while the TV is moved to the big.. hmm
You could call it.. um
-Prozac can heal the mind but friends may mend the soul.
I totally agree.
I didn't think about integrating so many different functions into one HTPC, but I guess it can be done. I wouldn't run any analog sound through a PC though, the "SR" type links on the other devices can probably be controlled through the PC.
I did buy a darn nice NEC XGA LCD presentation projector refurbed for $2200. It happens to be pretty bright, I get a 11' diagonal screen and I can still turn on a light if I need to. I think one can get a _very_ nice HT setup for $5000 easy if you stick to the basic in terms of functionality and still keep up quality that is hard to rival.
The hard to rival part is quite true for me as I even know some people that have a TV/VCR combo where the screen was as wide as the VHS slot.
Hi, t!
Interestingly enough, I don't have any glare problems except when I'm trying to take pictures! Since the material is completely flat, and since all my room lights are higher than the machine, there isn't any glare. I can see reflections of the desk, but it hasn't been objectionable. In fact, I didn't even think about it until you asked!
[As far as work goes, I'm fortunate that I have some flexibility. However, I had to write a major report, as well as support the forum, so it wound up being a 20 hour day!]
Cheers!
MarkF
If all I need is the ability to control the HTPC while there is a large screen that outputs the real DVD image, then using a PDA touch screen might be a good idea. Buying a PDA replacement digitizer/screen at GetHighTech is 60$ for B/W Palm Vx and 75$ for Color Palm130M (100$ for the 515).
These digitizers are of high quality, and instead of just showing the desktop and pointing with the mouse, one can draw buttons on the display, and touch it!!! In this case, there is no need for other buttons on the computers, just create a program that performs all the actions from the touch screen printed buttons.
This can build the ultimate HTPC, since there is no need for keyboard or mouse. We just have to create programs that control the digitizer, and choose what you want to do (like the interface of the new copy-machines that lets you control everything from different "tabs" on the touchscreen.
It could be a nice OS project, that will give Linux another edge (since nobody will have to know what OS powers the HTPC, the regular MS-Windows interface will not matter!). Serious people that want to build HTPCs will choose Linux.
Is it doable?
Liran.
I should have thought about it before sending the first comment, sorry...
Liran.
Dude, just buy a mac screen.
and a DViAtor (i believe is its name) or just search around some mac sites. It does the power and everything seperately, so atleast it would be off the desk. (and who really cares about the clutter behind the computer, its not like i got back there too often, that is what front ports are for).
- "Dude, just buy a mac screen."
"Dude," no.The LCD panels are beautiful, the housings... well, I don't like 'em. Apple has implemented a great idea, but I'll be buying my LCD from Viewsonic or IBM.
- "...and a DViAtor..."
Okay, I'm trying to cut down on cables, clutter, etc., and the solution is another external box? Nope, not going to happen. Another reason not to buy an Apple LCD for a PC.- "...who really cares about the clutter behind the computer..."
In Mark Foster's particular case (his pictures which inspired my original post), the computer is sitting on his breakfast counter. (In another of his posts, it sounds like it's going to stay there!) From what I see in his pictures, it looks very similar to a counter in one of my old apartments. It's open on both sides -- there's no "back." Neat is very important in a place like that."...America's great minds of today, teaching America's great minds of tomorrow. Poor bastards." -- A Beautiful Min
A novice of the temple once approached the Chief Priest with a
question.
"Master, does Emacs have the Buddha nature?" the novice asked.
The Chief Priest had been in the temple for many years and could be
relied upon to know these things. He thought for several minutes before
replying.
"I don't see why not. It's got bloody well everything else."
With that, the Chief Priest went to lunch. The novice suddenly
achieved enlightenment, several years later.
Commentary:
His Master is kind,
Answering his FAQ quickly,
With thought and sarcasm.
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