PCI Shortwave Receiver

payman writes "WiNRADiO Communications has just announced news of its forthcoming WR-G303i PCI based shortwave, digital radio, narrowband FM receiver. This is said to be "the world's first dedicated shortwave receiver on a PC card. It is also the first commercially available receiver where the entire final intermediate frequency stage and an all-mode demodulator are entirely executed in software, running on a personal computer." Winradio has in the past supported Linux for its products (see Linradio), and it most likely will continue to do so with the WR-G303i."

Comments

Interference?

[glrotate]

I know my TV Tuner card has a ton of it.

And what's on shortwave that isn't streamed like the BBC?

Re:Interference?

[kitzilla]

> And what's on shortwave that isn't streamed like the BBC?

Among other things, Amateur Radio Service. It might be fun to pair this card with a tiny PSK-31 transmitter. Digital modes are a lot of fun.

Re:Interference?

[Door-opening Fascist]

I wouldn't mind having a shortwave card in my computer. I'm at college, so theoretically I have an "always-on" connection, but Earlham College only has a single T1 for 1200 students, so streaming anything isn't worth it.

Re:Interference?

[stephenisu]

Did you look at the website? That card has magnetic shielding covering the entire thing..

Re:Interference?

[Anonymous Coward]

Just because it has protection from interference of what's going on inside the computer, doesn't mean they engineered it well to handle interference trasmitted across the bus.

Re:Interference?

[Anonymous Coward]

What's on shortwave? Not just the BBC.

Dozens of other large broadcasting services like Deutsche Welle (Germany), Radio Netherlands, Radio Canada, Voice of America, and so on. All offer English programming and much of it, very interesting (Radio Netherlands in particular).

Then there's literally thousands of other small regional shortwave broadcasters operating from the likes of Africa and South America. Usually with lower power and local languages, they can still be heard and many people find it interesting to "DX" them (DXing is the hobby of receiving distant radio stations).

Then of course there's a ton of interesting military communications. Coast Guard and the Air Force are particularly active on HF, and it's pretty easy to hear what they're up to.

There's also the infamous "spy numbers" stations which broadcast encoded messages to "spies" in far away places. Some of these are in morse code, others are in voice modes, read by odd sounding announcers.

Also, there's pirate radio stations active both in the US and in Europe.

Thats just a small slice of what's on shortwave. Next to my Powerbook, my Radio Shack DX-398 and Icom R75 are my most valued posessions.

Re:Interference?

[Kooglebot]

> And what's on shortwave that isn't streamed like the BBC?

Plenty. There are thousands of shortwave stations, some just flea's whisper stations in the Andes mountains, U.S. based religious nuts, unlicensed pirates, etc. etc. And I daresay only a small percentage of this is streamed.

I might also add that perhaps the vast majority of ``what's on shortwave'' isn't even news/entertainment, and would certainly never be streamed. There are radio beacons, RTTY (radioteletype) and data transmissions, and other utilities of various sorts. Some people monitor these transmissions as a hobby. Kind of a strange hobby if you ask me, but no one did, so to each his own. Anyway, the internet provides no analagous activity.

WiNRADiO?

[aronc]

If they plan Linux support, why exactly is it called the "WiNRADiO" (complete with the cool-in-1992 lower case i's)?

Re:WiNRADiO?

[broken_bones]

I know this was probably a rhetorical question but here's the answer: Marketing. The makers of this product want to be associated with things/people that are commonly viewed as "winners". By most people's standards Microsoft is a winner with their insane marketshare. Many here on Slashdot (and elsewhere would disagree) but such people are usually not the first targets that come to the minds of marketers.

Re:WiNRADiO?

[Anonymous Coward]

When you use parentheses in the middle of a sentence, it is customary to place them so that the sentence would still make sense with the parenthetical content removed.

Example:
Many here on Slashdot (and elsewhere) would disagree but such people are usually not the first targets that come to the minds of marketers.

Re:WiNRADiO?

[psamuels]

If they plan Linux support, why exactly is it called the "WiNRADiO"

Probably by association to Winmodems, which are cheaper to manufacture than real modems because most of the signal processing is offloaded to software (as someone once said, "using a $200 CPU to emulate a $7 UART").

From the blurb (no I didn't read the article!), it sounds like they are not only doing the same thing here, but they are actually proud of it and consider this to be a bullet-point feature.

Re:WiNRADiO?

[psamuels]

When you use parentheses in the middle of a sentence, it is customary to place them so that the sentence would still make sense with the parenthetical content removed.

Alas, no, it is not customary, any more than using "lose" (with one O) to mean the opposite of "find" is customary. Commas in particular are quite often misplaced in this manner. Annoys the crap out of me.

(I suspect instead of "customary" you meant "grammatically correct".)

Re:WiNRADiO?

[Anonymous Coward]

(complete with the cool-in-1992 lower case i's)?

If you take a quick browse around any amateur/ham radio site you will quickly see why. Websites will flashing text? Check. Scrolling text? Check. Impossible to read backgrounds? Check. Stupid, impossible to follow, hacked formatting, multi-size fonts, etc? Check. Sometimes all on the same page. Ugh, early 90's for sure, these guys are living in a hole.

By the way, I happen to be a HAM. I friggin hate all amateur/ham radio related sites. Even the commercial mechant sites suck-ass. My guess is that the amateur/ham/SW radio market consists of mostly old people (no offense, but the Internet has the young'uns hearts). I'm a 20-something programmer.

Hopefully with more radios like this, the next generation "software radios", and more digital stuff we will see a renewed interest in radio by younger people so the hobby doesn't die completely. We do provide a valuable service in times of emergency or where other forms of communication won't work.

Re:WiNRADiO?

[Anonymous Coward]

I have to say that the comments correcting grammer (and spelling) crack me up. Even with the parentheses in the wrong place the comment was still readable. For those who like to pick at grammer, it might be worth considering that most comments posted to Slashdot were never intended to be graded by an English teacher. I say let the grammer slide if the post is comprehensible.

Re:WiNRADiO?

[ivi]

Perhaps they hope to WiN over their competition

Actually, I do think they should also get a TM
for LiNRADIO... and - who knows? - if -enough-
Linux users buy & use their puppies under
Linux... create & populate Linux Radio Users
Communities, they -might- just do so.

On the other hand, compared to Yaesu FT-817
users on -one- Yahoo group (4034 today) or
even another Yahoo group for users of the
APRS-compatible UI-View program (1739 today),
I doubt LiNRADIO will attract quite as much
interest (to say the least).

Eg, are you going to buy one for use in your
Linux box, to help put LiNRADIO on the map? ;-)

Re:WiNRADiO?

[Anonymous Coward]

It was the first radio receiver card designed to be installed in a PC and run under Windows. The name was a truncation of the two words, which was its main connotation. We were quite amazed, and very thrilled, that the name was available to register. And yes, the date is correctly pinpointed, which was 1992 for the first version. BTW the name was chosen by me (ex designer).

Ohhhhhh...

[TheSHAD0W]

When you said PC-card, I thought it might be PCMCIA.

Now THAT would be a fun card to stick into my HP 200LX. :-)

Re:Ohhhhhh...

[Anonymous Coward]

When you said PC-card, I thought it might be PCMCIA

Yeah me too until I read the title of the article, "PCI Shortwave Receiver." Oh wait I read that first.

Re:Ohhhhhh...

[waddgodd]

They make PCMCIA versions of the rest of their lineup: I doubt one will be long in coming. Of course, the rest of their lineup also starts at $500, so don't expect cheap...

Re:Ohhhhhh...

[Anonymous Coward]

It needs a powerful soundchip in the PC and the
processor power of probably at least 700MHz. Is
that something you have in your HP 200LX ?

neat-o

[Anonymous Coward]

neat, super neat.

Very Cool

[m0rph3us0]

This looks pretty cool, and does 6Mhz AM, little known fact that you can listen to lightning storms on 6Mhz AM world wide. If forget the homepage of the group but there is a group using 6 Mhz AM and RDF equiptment to plot lightning strikes across the world. If anyone has a link to the group it would be much appreciated, can't even find it on google. --morph

Re:Very Cool

[southern]

I think it is .6Mhz for lightning. I once read an article in QST about building an lightning detector, which was basically a receiver that was tuned to .6Mhz.

Re:Very Cool

[Anonymous Coward]

This may be what you are looking for:

http://www.lightningstorm.com/

Re:Very Cool

[FrostedWheat]

I don't know the group you mentioned, but here is a slightly related link.

Very interesting stuff.

Re:Very Cool

[rfmobile]

Lighting detection related tidbits: Public utilities track lighting strikes nationwide since lightning strikes often damage power lines. Ryan makes the "StrikeFinder" - a lightning detector/ receiver used in smaller aircraft to provide the pilot with a crude map of severe weather in their path.

WinRadio Sucks

[Anonymous Coward]

really, please read ANY review of the performance on WinRadio. Buy a Grundig, Drake, Sony or some kind of REAL radio.

Re:WinRadio Sucks

[Anonymous Coward]

>Sony

Yah. Because everyone wants expensive Japanese trash for a radio...

Re:WinRadio Sucks

[smokin_juan]

well why don't you post some links to thses reviews or fuck off dipshit

Poor man's spectrum analyzer??

[Newer Guy]

God, I hope so! An HP or Tek costs the same as a small house.

Okay, now...

[TheDanish]

What can this actually do for me? I read the article (read: advertisement) and I'm still lost on what this does. It's a shortwave radio. Great. Can I get local radio stations with it?

I'm not being sarcastic or anything, I'm just curious of to whom this is relevant and why.

Re:Okay, now...

[m0rph3us0]

short wave is generally used for long distance communications, its very useful if say you want to listne to a world cup game in italian and live in a non-italian country. Shortwave is used by many people but its not as popular as your standard commerical AM / FM frequencies. If you want to listen to your local KISS 96.whatever station this card isnt for you. If however you want international radio and things like that then shortwave is very cool. I don't know if the reciever my ham friend was using was short wave or not but we always listen to the space shuttle comms. channels with his gear. Someone on here can probably tell me if shortwave is the frequency they use. something tells me its in the 140Mhz area which is not shortwave.

Re:Okay, now...

[TheDanish]

Oh, cool, thanks. Maybe I'll get one, then.

Re:Okay, now...

[fatboy]

What can this actually do for me? I read the article (read: advertisement) and I'm still lost on what this does.

With a DSP directly in the IF section, any damn thing you want it to. :) Instead of having circuitry to "detect" the information modulated on the radio signal, you use mathematical algorithms to "detect" that information. It's AM/FM/AFSK/FSK/PSK/Spread Spectrum/SSB and any other mode that can be devised capable. You simply write software to detect the information you want.


I know it's not the answer you were looking for, but I hope someone else was.

Re:Okay, now...

[clueless_penguin]

Shortwave generally refers to anything from 3 Mhz to 30 MHz, so shuttle coms are definitely not it. I think they use uhf, but can't remember the exact freq. 140 MHz is close to the 2m Ham band (144 MHz), so that's probably the right one.

Re:Okay, now...

[southern]

I think most of the shuttle traffic is done up around the 1.2Ghz now these days. But all over the USA mission control re-broadcast on the amateur frequencies. Some shortwave is use during launch and landing.

Re:Okay, now...

[Anonymous Coward]

wow I did not know there was such a detector, that is amazing. I will be getting one these, is there any documentation on how to set the alogrithms up to detect different bands?

Re:Okay, now...

[SEWilco]

Yes, you can get local radio stations with it. The AM and FM "local" stations use certain frequencies which you can learn from reading the dial or its manual.

Notice in the specs the "0.15-1.5 MHz band". 1.5MHz is 1500KHz, or 1500 on an AM radio dial. FM is around 100MHz, and you can see that is well within the specifications.

What is interesting, however, is that this device is under software control. You can use it to scan to build a list of active frequencies, scan frequencies and let you hear any transmissions, monitor and log activity (for uses such as monitor interference from frequencies near those which your company radios use), record favorite shows, or merely spin the dial over a much wider range of stations than just the local broadcast stations. ("This is The Voice Of The Andes...")

Also note the note that some frequencies might be blocked due to laws in some countries. If your country forbids reception then... well, maybe you can only listen to your government's official station, so you'll have to check what frequency it is on. Assuming your country's radios reveal the frequency and have more than an "ON" switch and a dial for selecting between "1" and "2".

Re:Okay, now...

[Cpt_Kirks]

IIRC, the ARRL (or somebody) rebroadcast shuttle coms on several amateur SW frequencies.

You are not a true Geek without a callsign.

Tom
KD4FTQ

Re:Okay, now...

[Anonymous Coward]

this page says "9 kHz to 30 MHz"

AFAIK, none of the commercial FM stations in the US are in that range.

Slightly offtopic, but....

[GreyWolf3000]

...doesn't it bother people when the 'lin' in Linux syllable replaces the 'win' syllable in Windows? Linmodems, LindowsOS...it makes it sound like cheap imitation cereal with crappy names like "Honey Buzzles" instead of "Honey Combs" and "Nutty Nuggets," etc.

Anyone else get annoyed by this?

Re:Slightly offtopic, but....

[Anonymous Coward]

Especially since WIN is pronounced exactly like it is spelt, but LIN is prounounced LEEN.

Re:Slightly offtopic, but....

[Anonymous Coward]

Especially since WIN is pronounced exactly like it is spelt, but LIN is prounounced LEEN.

The correct pronuciation of Linux as Leenooks is a myth. Quit showing how gullible you are in public.

Re:Slightly offtopic, but....

[Anonymous Coward]

Wait, it's Lin Nucks, right? Link Lyndon Johnson and Canucks. I like Lie Nuks better, but I thought it was Lin nuks. If it's pronounced that way it really should be spelled Linnux because with one L is makes the I hard.
Somebody is going to comment on that last line, right?

Re:Slightly offtopic, but....

[Anonymous Coward]

Like with a g-o-a-t-s-e-x abdswer? No.

Re:Slightly offtopic, but....

[Anonymous Coward]

No. Please mod down.

Re:Slightly offtopic, but....

[Anonymous Coward]

I love the generic Mountain Dew, Mountain Thunder.

lol

Someone said there is such a thing as Dr. Spice?

Limitations?

[vegetablespork]

What bands are locked out due to ECPA and similar laws abroad?

What DRM is included in the hardware and/or software?

Re:Limitations?

[TheDanish]

Well, according to the link:

Additional demodulator types are planned as further options, including a DRM...demodulator.

Sorry, had to say it.

Re:Limitations?

[Anonymous Coward]

Heh :).

Re:Limitations?

[the eric conspiracy]

What bands are locked out due to ECPA and similar laws abroad?

None I imagine. This is a shortwave reciever, after all.

What DRM is included in the hardware and/or software?

Digital Radio Mondial (DRM) is a software option.

You really should read the article for further details.

Re:Limitations?

[Anonymous Coward]

Some cordless phones transmit at < 30MHz, and intercepting them is also illegal under the ECPA.

Re:Limitations?

[Anonymous Coward]

Damn, I saw that too and I wanted to make that joke!

Re:Limitations?

[SEWilco]

Well, some of the company's other devices have specs which mention some frequencies are not available due to national laws.

Let's see what that may include:

• UK: "Although it is not illegal to sell, buy or own a scanning or other receiver in the UK, it must only be used to listen to transmissions meant for GENERAL RECEPTION. The services that you can listen to include Amateur and Citizens' Band transmissions, licensed broadcast radio and weather and navigation broadcasts."
• West Virginia: " It shall be illegal to operate or cause to be operated any electrical equipment within a two-mile radius of the reception equipment of any radio astronomy facility if such operation causes interference with reception by said radio astronomy facility of radio waves emanating from any nonterrestrial source." So you need a GPS receiver and a network link...or a postcard... to the radio astronomy facility so as to check if you're interfering?
• Canada, France, Germany, Greece, Greenland, Israel, Italy, Luxembourg, Malta, New Caledonia, North Africa, Norway, Portugal, Singapore, South Korea, Spain, Thailand, Turkey,USA: Scanners illegal or reception of non-public signals forbidden.
• USA: Mobile scanners restricted in many states.
• USA: "unlawful to disclose the content of radio transmissions overheard unless they are amateur radio traffic, broadcasts to the public or distress calls."

Many countries also have restrictions on specific frequencies, such as those which they use for cellular or wireless phones. Not always the same frequencies which other countries use.

Re:Limitations?

[crazymennonite]

The law in WVa is probably for the Green Bank Radio Telescope installation (I believe there are/were other government radio facilities in the WV/VA border area as well).
We've gotten accustomed to protecting our pork projects, thanks to Senator Byrd.

Re:Limitations?

[Mr. No Skills]

Note this product is a shortwave receiver, so by definition it is limited to the bands it pulls in. USA does not limit any shortwave I am aware of (although other countries do block things like "voice of america"). WinRadio has other products that are full spectrum receivers/scanners. For USA, mobile scanners are often OK (where they are restricted) for those with a ham radio license. The USA version of their full spectrum products do block out the 800 MHz cell telephone bands.

Greaaaaat.

[Matey-O]

Like I don't hear enough Clearchannel radio in the CAR!

{Note the subtle humor before modding}

Re:Greaaaaat.

[Reziac]

Nonsense. Most shortwave reception is anything but clear!

(note twisted response to subtle humour ;)

This looks like so much fun!

[Anonymous Coward]

I love when interesting computing things come along. Just playing dumb video games gets so drab.

I will certainly order one of these!

Pro. vs WinRadio.

[Anonymous Coward]

Aside from the internal factor, and the drain on your PC. How does this compare to a professional, shortwave radio, with a computer hookup?

Re:Pro. vs WinRadio.

[Anonymous Coward]

Probably doesn't compare favorably. A "professional shortwave" reciever should cost at least $1000, for fancy top-of-the-line goverment monitoring maybe $5k. A reasonable home receiver should set you back $150 for an entry-level portable, with the better recievers coming in at around $500.

Re:Pro. vs WinRadio.

[Regul8or]

I'm not going to say that this PC shortwave reciever is better than some $1000 rig, but.. what I have noticed is that there's a trend geared towards integrating "things" into PCs and computers in general to make them cheaper and often times better.

A good example is an OBD-II scan tool used for diagnosing newer automobiles. If you were to buy a fully integrated stand-alone unit from some tool manufacturer you'd be looking at $600 on up to several thousands. But simply using a computer such as a palm OS based handheld and making an adapter and some software that can chew through the data stream from the OBD-II computer you can mkae yourself a scan tool. Having researched this I purchased one and was pleased to find out that I had essentially bought a $2500 scan tool for $250. Not factoring in the cost of my computer since everyone has 1 to 10 of those things anyways.

So, if a handheld computer can interface with my car and run diagnostics and read critical sensor data in real time for 10 times less what would be so hard about turning one into a radio for cheap? To simply put it, a radio is a capacior and an inductor. The value of one is varied to "tune in" to a certain frequency. Sure there's some A/D converter on this new pc card but that's not expensive. Would it seem so hard for a computer to take this digital data and do soemthing with it? No, it does that with a million of other things all the time(mouse, keyboard, digital camera, etc).

The point is that computers are powerful. More powerful than we realize I think. Combined with innovative ideas and software, they're making functions previously unimagined for a computer to do cheaper.

Two Words:

[Anonymous Coward]

Solar flares, baby!

only goes to 30Mhz..

[Anonymous Coward]

Does clearchanel own any Medium Wave (aka,the AM broadcast band)stations?

GNU Radio?

[Russ Nelson]

If these guys have Linux support, then what is Eric Blossom doing with GNU Radio? And why have these two articles about SDR been posted today?
-russ

ecpa? this is a shortwave reciever..

[Anonymous Coward]

The reciever stops at 30Mhz, long before the cell bands that are blanked out of scanners under ecpa.

Re:ecpa? this is a shortwave reciever..

[vegetablespork]

Some cordless phones transmit at 30MHz, and intercepting them is also illegal under the ECPA.

Who the hell uses shortwave anymore?

[Anonymous Coward]

Seriously, the BBC has cancelled shortwave programming to North America and just about everyone has streaming audio nowadays.

Re:Who the hell uses shortwave anymore?

[Anonymous Coward]

Total bullshit. They canceled transmissions aimed directly at North America. They still broadcast World Service to the Caribbean, among other places, and it's totally audible in the United States and Canada.

Newsflash: shortwave radio is hugely important in most of the rest of the world. Africa, South America, China, India, the Middle East. Equating BBC to shortwave in general is like equating CNN to cable TV. There's still 400 other channels...

Anyone here a ham radio buff?

[ShooterNeo]

Granted, ham radio buffs are a thing of the past (I bet those same geeks were the first people on the internet and the early online services like compuserve in the late 80s) but I always had one basic question.

Since shortwave is more or less a party line with pure analog transmission, what stops an unscrupulous person from spamming it and making it unusable to everyone else? Sure, if you did that in the US FCC troops would come bust down your door but what's to stop, say, Sadaam from having a party one day and jaming all short wave channels with a few hundred megawatts of propoganda.

Re:Anyone here a ham radio buff?

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, you have to have the power output to block people receiving signals all the way around the world, which is fairly impractical.

Also, such jamming is usually considered an act of war, so it's *just not something you do*

Re:Anyone here a ham radio buff?

[fatboy]

Since shortwave is more or less a party line with pure analog transmission,

There is plenty of digital traffic on HF.

what stops an unscrupulous person from spamming it and making it unusable to everyone else?

The ITU. Even though I do remeber Castro took 1510 WLAC here in Nashville, along with other stations on the East Coast, off the air around 1989 because of "TV Marti". (Sorry for no links. I'm lazy.)

Re:Anyone here a ham radio buff?

[GigsVT]

ham radio buffs are a thing of the past

Uhhh, not quite.

what stops an unscrupulous person from spamming it and making it unusable to everyone else?

It happens. Also see this.

but what's to stop, say, Sadaam from having a party one day and jaming all short wave channels with a few hundred megawatts of propoganda

It would take a hell of a lot of transmitters and electricity, antennas, etc, and you could easily track the source of the transmission through triangulation.

Re:Anyone here a ham radio buff?

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes.

Re:Anyone here a ham radio buff?

[bromoseltzer]

Nothing stops them, except they need the money and the will to do it. This was commonplace in Cold War days, when the Evil Empire was jamming all the time.

Iraq shortwave broadcasting exists but is "erratic", they say.

- AA6E

Re:Anyone here a ham radio buff?

[clueless_penguin]

...but what's to stop, say, Sadaam from having a party one day and jaming all short wave channels with a few hundred megawatts of propoganda.

If you've ever listened to any ham bands you'd see that he doesn't need to make it unuseable. It pretty much already is. And if he did try, he'd be drowned out by a few loud idiots. There's a reason I let my license lapse many years ago - the hobby got "embraced" by a large number of CB types and it all went down hill.

Re:Anyone here a ham radio buff?

[fatboy]

If you've ever listened to any ham bands you'd see that he doesn't need to make it unuseable. It pretty much already is. And if he did try, he'd be drowned out by a few loud idiots. There's a reason I let my license lapse many years ago - the hobby got "embraced" by a large number of CB types and it all went down hill.

Don't lump all of us in with the guys down on 75 Meters. If you had tuned around, you would find alot of really nice folks on the air, but if you look for a bunch of jerks, that's all you will find.

Re:Anyone here a ham radio buff?

[the eric conspiracy]

ham radio buffs are a thing of the past

Ham radio hobbyists provide an important redundant channel that is extremely difficult to knock off the air. When the hurricanes and earthquakes are done, all a Ham needs is a car battery and a length of wire to make contacts all over the world. Here is an article on use of Ham radio during some problems on Mir:

http://www.hamradio-online.com/1997/jun/mircrisi s. html

And here is one on activities associated with Isadore that are in progress as I type this:

http://www.arrl.org/

There are currently about 680,000 licensed ham operators in the US.

This a large number to relegate to the past..

I bet those same geeks were the first pepple on the internet and the early online services like compuserve in the late 80s)

Hams were much more likely to run their own BBS than hang out on a service like Compuserve.

what stops an unscrupulous person from spamming it and making it unusable to everyone else

Te short answer is: The Laws of Physics.

It is possible to jam a few frequencies here and there, but to jam shortwave transmissions world-wide takes something with the power of a solar flare. That's a lot more than a few hundred megawatts.

During the cold war the Soviet Union + Warsaw Pact tried (and mostly failed) to jam transmissions like the Voice of America, Deutsche Welle, KOL Israel, Radio Tirana and the BBC to their own populations. Estimates were that they were spending about $1 billion per year, had 200 large scale jamming stations and were putting out about 1 terawatt of EMR.

Re:Anyone here a ham radio buff?

[clueless_penguin]

Yes, there were (and probably still are) nice folks, but I just got tired of the few jerks, who seemed to drown everyone else out. I mostly hung out on 40 and 20m cw, and constantly got chased out by people intentionaly jamming things. Another factor was the Russian woodpecker (is that thing still around?). It just got to the point where it wasn't fun anymore. Admittedly, this was back in the early 80's - maybe things have changed.

Re:Anyone here a ham radio buff?

[Anonymous Coward]

the hobby got "embraced" by a large number of CB types and it all went down hill.

Hihi, you just seriously dated yourself. A lot of old-timers have problems with the newbies. I know it's a problem, I run into these morons all the time. But to completely leave the hobby just sounds like some old guy spouting off about how all the no-codes took over the world and killed amateur radio. It's just not true, and every day there seems to be less HAM's.

Re:Anyone here a ham radio buff?

[Anonymous Coward]

Holy SHIT you're going to get flamed.

Re:Anyone here a ham radio buff?

[Anonymous Coward]

I just got my license and am having a lot of fun... I am suprised that more people don't know about amateur radio... I wish I would have known about it earlier! Also there seem to be a lot of technological developments in ham radio like echolink, packet radio, etc. but I haven't got into that stuff yet. I have even talked to a few linux users on the airwaves.

Re:Anyone here a ham radio buff?

[John Jorsett]

Granted, ham radio buffs are a thing of the past (I bet those same geeks were the first people on the internet and the early online services like compuserve in the late 80s)

There are a few of us left. And yes, I was early on the internet. Like about 1975, when it wasn't much more than a few networked university and DoD computers. And I was early on Compuserve as well. I fit your profile to an uncanny degree.

what stops an unscrupulous person from spamming it and making it unusable to everyone else?

One thing is vigilante justice. When someone makes himself an obnoxious ass on a ham band it isn't difficult to find him (transmitter hunting is something some hams do for amusement). Retaliation can range from putting a pin through his coax to more drastic measures.

Re:Anyone here a ham radio buff?

[jelle]

"and were putting out about 1 terawatt of EMR."

Where did they get all the electricity for that? Especially considering that the total electricity generating _capacity_ was 811 gigawatts for the US in 2000 (note all generators/plants are probably never at peak capacity at the same time)?

I'd say that terawatt number is as reliable as a unmaintained 10 year old car...

Re:Anyone here a ham radio buff?

[Agripa]

They probably meant 1 TW ERP (effective radiated power). Since they are both closer and can use directional antennas with gain, their jamming would look like a 1TW point souce at the jammed transmitter.

Pronunciation

[Anonymous Coward]

Depends on where you're from. Everyone I know pronounces Linux like lin - ucks (lin like win) It'll be a cold day in hell before I pronounce lin like leen

Cool

[Anonymous Coward]

Another way to piss off RIAA!

Check Out These Cool Frequencies!

[Anonymous Coward]

* 1100 UTC Radio New Zealand, 17675 kHz; check also 6105 or 6145 as possibilities
* 1300 UTC Radio Australia 5995, 6020, 9580, 11650
* 1400 UTC Radio Australia as above
* 1500 UTC Radio Japan 9505 kHz
* 1600 UTC Voice of Russia 9470, 11675, 11775, 15490
* 1700 UTC Voice of Russia as above and 9560 kHz.
* 1800 UTC Voice of Russia as above and 7305, 7340, 9765, 9775, 9890 kHz.
* 1900 UTC Voice of Russia as above and 12070 kHz.
* 2000 UTC UAE Radio Dubai 13675 (Arabic)
* 2100 UTC Voice of Iran 15084 kHz (Farsi)
* Radio Kuwait 9855 (Arabic)
* 2200 UTC Radio Sofia, Bulgaria 7535, 7545 kHz
* Radio Cairo, Egypt 9900 kHz.
* Voice of Turkey 9445, 9460 (Turkish)
* Voice of Greece 9395, 11595 (Greek)
* 2300 UTC Radio Austria Int. 5945, 6155, 9870 (German & English)
* Radio Prague, Czech Rep 7345, 9435
* RAI Italy 6010, 9675, 11800 (Italian)
* R. France Intern'l 9715, 9790 (French)
* Voice of Germany 6100, 9545, 9730 (German)
* Radio Exterior, Spain 9540, 9630 (Spanish)
* Vatican Radio 5880 (Italian)
* 0000 UTC BBC World Service 5975, 6175, 9590
* 0100 UTC Brazilian stations between 4750 & 5100 kHz
* 0200 UTC Brazilian stations between 4750 & 5100 kHz
* 0300 UTC CKZU St. John's, Newfoundland on 6160 kHz
* 0400 UTC CHNX Halifax, NS on 6130 kHz
* Radio Villa, Dominican Rep 4960 (Spanish)
* Ecos del Torbes, Venezuela 4980 (Spanish)
* 0500 UTC R. Havana Cuba 9820, 9830 kHz.
* Voice of the Andes, Ecuador 9745, 12015
* WWCR Nashville, TN 5070 kHz
* WBCQ Monticello, ME 7415 kHz
* Voice of America 7170, 7295, 9700
* 0600 UTC Radio For Peace, Costa Rica 6975, 15050
* R. Mexico Int'l 9705 (Spanish)

You can also check out military, air traffic, even natural phenomenon like solar flares, lightning storms, and things.

Here's another list.

Re:Check Out These Cool Frequencies!

[FrostedWheat]

You can also check out military, air traffic, even natural phenomenon like solar flares, lightning storms, and things.

Ohh what's the frequency of lightning? I know there is a common one but I never did find out where it is.

Dumb Question

[jchawk]

What exactly does this device do? It lets me listen to radio stations on my computer? Or is this picking up the ham radio frequencies?

Could someone give me an overview of what exactly this is useful for?

I'm not trying to troll, I'm just a little confused about what this thing does and what it is useful for.

Re:Dumb Question

[kingsqueak]

Yes.

It will do a bit of both. It covers spectrum up to 30Mhz, in that range there is plain old AM radio, HAM radio, commercial marine, military. There's all sorts of transmission modes in there too; plain voice on AM, voice on SSB, morse code on SSB, FM, data of several types.

One of the things you can do for example is receive weather fax's, you can 'snoop' other forms of data communications as well with add-on accessories. Not sure how the radios on a card work with add-ons or if the software can do it outright inline.

What I found odd was the mention that this was a first of some sort, there have been PC based radios similar to this for a long while, and third party linux frontend support as well. Check out freshmeat, there are other radio frontend controller projects too.

Personally I like having a seperate radio device, it's better for the toy factor and at least a little bit safer as far as picking up static discharges on the antennas, which just creeps me out with antennas that go direct to a PCI card.

Re:Dumb Question

[Glytch]

Shortwave is great for long-distance transmissions. Think in terms of thousands of kilometers. End result: you get to listen to radio stations from other continents. Not terribly impressive in the days of internet radio, I'll admit, but it's still pretty cool. It doesn't require anything but a decent receiver (good ones can be had for less than a hundred bucks US, don't listen to obsessed hobbyists who tell you different) and some batteries.

I'm especially fond of Deutsche Wella (Germany's international broadcaster) and Radio Netherlands.

I don't know anything about ham radio, so I don't know if this card would be any good for that. This looks like a fun card to play with. I've been using the mic jack on my PC's sound card to record shows, but it's an older model and I have to turn it on and tune it manually. With one of these cards I could just set a cron job and not have to be on hand.

Re:Dumb Question

[kingsqueak]

I answered my own question reading the details. This puppy has completely variable IF due to all of it being a software engine. This won't mean much to the average Joe, but for a radio enthusiast on paper at least it could be very cool.

The IF in my very ragged terms is what is used to 'mix' with the signal input to create the output. There are 'dead spots' in any radio due to a sort of overlap situation with the fixed or narrowly variable IF and the actual spectrum space. The advantage of completely variable IF is one for the real radio fanatics but it's still a neat innovation. Now whether a radio on a card is 'quiet' enough that it would even matter....this is making me curious enough to hunt one down to check it out.

Oh yeah, used HAM 'HF' rigs are available cheap on ebay and make fun toys and halfway decent shortwave rigs. There are several computer control frontend projects kicking around, compare the models supported and go shopping. SWL (short wave listening) can be a nice diversion.

Re:Dumb Question

[Reziac]

Thanks for the link. Radio Nederland was my fave back in the day. I even bought a vinyl music festival LP from them back when. Along with the BBC, my other faves were Radio Kiev and Radio Moscow, both had really good music shows and some interesting culture discussions and the like.

Ah, nostalgia, aka "I feel old" :)

Re:Dumb Question

[ncc74656]

The IF in my very ragged terms is what is used to 'mix' with the signal input to create the output.

You described the local oscillator and its output, not the IF. Most radios use a variable-frequency local oscillator for tuning...its output and the antenna input (possibly RF-amplified) are fed into a mixer. The mixer produces sum and difference signals on all input frequencies; the frequency you want to pick off is the intermediate frequency (IF). A fixed-frequency tuned circuit picks off this signal for demodulation, amplification, etc. As an example, let's say you want to tune in 840 kHz on the broadcast AM band. The IF used in an AM radio is (typically) 455 kHz. If the local oscillator produces 385 kHz, the 840-kHz input will be downmixed to 455 kHz (840-385=455). Tuning the broadcast band requires a local oscillator that produces anything from 55 to 1245 kHz. (Note that if the local oscillator could produce 1295 kHz, you could pick up 840 kHz at what would appear as "1750 kHz" on the dial (1295-840=455). Better shortwave receivers employ two or three mixers at different IFs to make sure each station only appears once. FM receivers use two mixers as well (1st IF is 10.7 MHz, 2nd IF is the same 455 kHz used for AM).)

IFs are typically fixed-frequency tuned circuits, since it's easier to make a good fixed-frequency tuned circuit than a good variable-frequency tuned circuit (TRF receivers and crystal receivers are examples of radios built around variable-frequency tuned circuits). Since the "circuit" involved in the WinRadio is really just some software, they aren't as bound by the limitations of real coils/capacitors/etc. and can use whatever IF they want.

Re:Dumb Question

[Anonymous Coward]

Hmm. I gave the page a cursory glance and didn't see an exact price. Maybe I missed it. Anyways, depending how much this thing costs and the intended uses the end user has, but could this be used to tune to shortwave frequencies for atomic clocks and decipher the transmission?

(Yes, I realize you can do this with some cell tower transmissions, gps, I think certain faa transmissions if you live near an airport, ntp, standard shortwave to serial devices out there, image grab the weatherchannel or tvguidechannel clock off a tv tuner card, but I'm looking for "yet another way" that may increase the utility of this device for a few.)

Distributed Computing Telescope

[Professor_Quail]

I noticed that WiNRADiO also sells some other cards that can monitor frequencies other than shortwave radio...one card, the WR-3700i-DSP can monitor the range from 150kHz up to 4gHz...if everyone had one of these, would it be possible for a group like SETI@Home to make a huge, distributed radio telescope? Just a thought...

Re:Distributed Computing Telescope

[kingsqueak]

Well assuming the neighbors didn't mind the gigantic dish in place of their houses.

Also remember, with SETI the whole project centers around the fact that their existing antennae pick up so much data it requires a global effort to process the information. They aren't lacking for the ability to listen, merely to interpret the overwhelming amount of data they already collect.

Re:Distributed Computing Telescope

[Anonymous Coward]

so what if everyone has a beowulf in their homes in the future? people in the 1940's must have thought a "personal computer" to be a strange thing too!

Re:Distributed Computing Telescope

[Space cowboy]

In a word, yes. I have a WinRadio 1550e, which allows monitoring within the waterhole (~1.4GHz) which is where most amateur seti astronomers look.

I have a dish, which had to get signoff from the secretary of state before I could install it :-) The picture shows the width of the house, with the dish being approx 4m across...

Making an interferometer poses major problems with time resolution though - to merge all these amateur radio telescopes together would (a) take a huge chunk of bandwidth for each telescope (ADSL ain't enough...), (b) need excellent synchronisation between the telescopes, which almost all of us don't have, and (c) need the dishes to be steerable, which most of them aren't...

There is however a project argus doing the same thing with lots of individual telescopes. As soon as I'm happy with the s/w running on mine, I'll be a member of the group :-)

And no, no aliens yet :-)

You did what?!!

[Anonymous Coward]

Idiot! I told you to post the windows exploits. Now we'll never get modded up!

Oh Boy, TOYS!

[JohnnyGTO]

Um honey you know that baby thing we're saving for... I was kidding, oh it turned blue, darn.

Atencion: Seis Siete Tres Siete Cero

[plimsoll]

This could be a great opportunity to further explore the fascinating world of so-called numbers stations; espionnage TX's from shadowy intelligence organizations (as if there were any other kind) all around the globe- encrypted with one-time pads and allowing agents to receive orders with nothing more than a modified walkman.

An excerpt from NPR's Lost & Found Sound:
"Eventually, if listeners dig around [the shortwave spectrum] long enough, they'll tune across voices reciting endless strings of numbers. These broadcasts have been heard for at least 40 years. The signals are powerful, but they contain no information about location of the transmitter or the intended audience. Most listeners linger for a short time, then tune away, utterly baffled."

When I discovered these myself, I found them bizarre, chilling- and intriguing. In order to get some background, I ordered a 4-CD set from Irdial recordings in the UK called The Conet Project... highly reccomended.

What is perhaps the most surprising is that the number of numbers stations boradcasting on the shortwave band are only increasing- variously attributed to the increasing sophistication of organized crime, drug cartels, terrorist/separatist organizations and an increasingly fractious global intelligence community.

Do follow the links above if this intrigues you in the slightest- and just try going back to your insular world-view afterwards; "the enemy" is out there, and he's hiding right out in the open.

Re:Atencion: Seis Siete Tres Siete Cero

[Anonymous Coward]

The thing is, I'm willing to bet the "numbers readings" are a one-time-pad or otherwise seriously huge key (ie. newpaper/magizine references) and therefore can not be cracked (at least not without some major advance in computing).

I have come to this conclusion because of these transmissions being so old that this would be the only logical way to broadcast something like this without it ever being cracked. I mean, DES/RSA wasn't even around when this started.

Re:Atencion: Seis Siete Tres Siete Cero

[Reziac]

Back in the 1970s I was a heavy shortwave listener and I remember those "numbers stations" well. They were sometimes an object of discussion on regular shortwave stations!

When I moved to California in 1984, I was appalled to discover that shortwave signals here are too weak to listen to -- couldn't get ANYthing. In Montana, I got tons of shortwave stations, plus sometimes could hear Radio Nederland's *AM* broadcasts from the Antilles!!

Re:Atencion: Seis Siete Tres Siete Cero

[io333]

I don't know where you are in Cali, but when I was in the Santa Clara Valley, I could pick up most stuff being broadcast in the US, and plenty from southern & northern east Asia. With a really lousy CW radio, no real antenna, and a horrid light dimmer in the next apartment that would always flood the whole SW spectrum with the most irritating buzz.

You need, in this order:

1. Antenna, Antenna, Antenna! Go to RadioShack and get their 75 foot length of copper SW antenna wire & figure out a good place to string it. Follow the directions.

2. The step above should solve 99.9999999 percent of your problems, but failing that, get a better radio. $99 should get you quite a decent rig at Fry's Electronics.

Re:Atencion: Seis Siete Tres Siete Cero

[Anonymous Coward]

No advance in computing, no matter how major, would enable the cracking of a transmission encrypted with a one-time pad, assuming the pad is generated properly (purely random) and used properly (only one).

The security of a one-time pad is provably absolute.

Re:Atencion: Seis Siete Tres Siete Cero

[Anonymous Coward]

Duh... but you missed the point.

If they were/are using a magazine or newspaper as the pad, then in theory a computer could check every newspaper and magazine article looking for something that will decode it.

So the computing power would be used to find the pad they are using, not try to break the key directly.

Re:Atencion: Seis Siete Tres Siete Cero

[Reziac]

When I tripped thru eastern/central Wash in the 70s, Calif. in 1981 (Sacto/Auburn area) and 1982 (San Diego/L.A.) I brought along the very portable radio I'd used in Montana for over a decade... and was astonished to find that its normally strong reception (even without an external antenna) was reduced to little or zilch. When I moved to the L.A. area in '84, I did try it with my big antenna (vertical mast with a bunch of secondary wire, worked *really* well) that in MT was only needful for weak stations, and still got nothing really listenable. Dunno if I was just "lucky" or what, but had no luck to speak of anywhere up and down the Pacific interior basin (beyond the coastal range).

Haven't tried since I moved up here to the high desert. That radio croaked a while back and my older s/w, tho a honkin' big serious outfit my dad paid big bucks for, never had the reception the cheap-assed portable did. (And admittedly by now I'm out of the listening habit, but it's still fun to remember.)

Much of interior CA and SoCal is effectively radio-dead even for clear channel (the real meaning, not the chain) AM stations, and often you're lucky even to get local stations -- frex I can't get a trace of the Albuquerque truckers' station that is blast-your-ears-strong all thru the entire mountain and midwest regions, even to southern Canada. Dunno how relevant that is to s/w.

BTW I wouldn't touch anything from Fry's that wasn't namebrand and independently warrantied. Fry's pulls too much scummy crap. Go read the writeup from Forbes magazine a few years ago (it comes up on their site if you search for Fry's). If anything it understates the problem.

Other AM/FM PCI Cards/USB devices?

[Wiwi Jumbo]

I remember looking for something that would allow me to hook up a radio to my PC (and be controlled by it) but at the time there were no PCI devices and the USB one's were FM only.

Anyone know of a AM/FM addon that's not ISA? (Oh, and not having to use my soundcard's linein would be nice.)

Or would this new card be it? If it's as low cost as they say maybe having shortwave and God knows what else wouldn't be such a bad thing...

Re:Other AM/FM PCI Cards/USB devices?

[chip_s_ahoy]

Which model? I really doubt it does AM. And is a PCI card.

Re:Other AM/FM PCI Cards/USB devices?

[William Marcy Tweed]

I remember looking for something that would allow me to hook up a radio to my PC (and be controlled by it)

You might want to check out the ICOM PCR-1000. It hooks up via RS-232 serial and can be completely controlled via Linux. qtpcr is a nice Linux/Unix software package that will control the reciever. If you can find an older one on ebay, there are several chip/hardware mods available.

/. Article

[plimsoll]

Sorry to reply to my own comment on this, but I (now) see this has been covered a bit already...

Crack a "Numbers" Station
Posted by Hemos on Sat 27 May 01:35PM
from the cool-insight dept.
boss soul writes: "On Friday, NPR did an excellent story on those infamous 'Numbers Stations' that broadcast on shortwave radio. Since the 1950s, these stations have been broadcasting nothing but an unidentified human voice reading a string of numbers. Though most people believe that these broadcasts are used by intelligence agencies to communicate with their agents abroad, there has never been any way to confirm this ... until now! The makers of "The Conet Project" (a four-CD set of numbers-station recordings) have thrown down the proverbial gauntlet and announced a series of "cryptographic challenges" -- the object of which is to crack an actual numbers station broadcast. Dust off your Crypto caps, everyone -- I want to see a slashdotter win this one! "

Re:/. Article

[Xenographic]

You realize that, assuming they were spies, they almost certainly used a one-time pad, right? As in flammable little books of numbers which were used on very short messages, and used only once. Unless the spy made a mistake, those aren't crackable, though it'd sure be interesting if someone found one where they slipped up... :]

Re:/. Article

[dbrutus]

I wouldn't want to crack a numbers station, I'd want to know how to receive it, and generate a cancellation broadcast.

Now that'd be an interesting project.

Something to think about.

[Anonymous Coward]

Excellent, they support Linux! Who cares about anything else though, without so much as a word to wether their hardware is openly documented. Really, the as-long-as-it's-got-Linux-support crap is really annoying.

Of course, we can't expect vendors to produce drivers for everything, and it's natural for Linux to receive more direct support that other non-Windows OS's. However, wether or not they provide Linux drivers should be of second importance to the level of help provided to third-party coders. Also, on top of documentation, an open source Linux driver would provide a valuable reference to anyone wishing to code support for other platforms.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, please don't assume Linux support makes a company worthy of your money.

You're an idiot

[supergumby]

Spectrum analyzers are designed to display a very large portion of the spectrum. Radios are designed to amplify a very small portion of the spectrum.

When was the last time you used your home sterero as a spectrum analyzer?

Re:You're an idiot

[uncle mole]

When's the last time I analyzed a radio specturm with my home stereo? Why just today, when I tuned the happy frequency selector on my Marantz 2270 across the band and noted where there were stations... Gee, I bet the software for the winradio could probably turn its tiny virtual knob faster than my fat fingers can spin the dial and maybe even a computer could be used to record signal strength vs. frequency. Now isn't that spectrum analysis?

Re:You're an idiot

[supergumby]

...And you're missing the point too. Anyone stupid enough to suggest that a shortwave reciever should be used as a general purpose spectrum analyzer should go back to high school.

Re:You're an idiot

[Anonymous Coward]

a good spectrum analyzer could tune through thousands of stations all at once faster than the fat little fingers of your PC could spin it's knobs.

Re:You're an idiot

[Anonymous Coward]

I never went on this site before. I'll not bother again. Anyone who is such a ludite as to think a spectrum anlayser is'nt simply a swept receiver with calibration, and then responds in such an unpleasant manner clearly inhabits a place i dont want to go. you can get this response from the gutter.

Have a nice life

Re:You're an idiot

[uncle mole]

Is that where you learned how to spell receiver? Just curious ;-) The point is that you can use a general purpose receiver as a spectrum analyzer, whether you hook a sweep generator and o'scope to it's IF or write down the results by hand with a pencil and paper. Not as nice as a new HP, but it may serve the purpose. My spectrum analyzer is a Cary 15 UV/VIS spectrophotometer, mechanical drive. Not exactly radio, but maybe you get the point?

Re:WiNRADiO?-flexibility.

[Anonymous Coward]

"The WR-G303i is the first of our G3 Series of software defined receivers.

A Software Defined Receiver (SDR) is such where demodulation and last IF (intermediate frequency) processing are done entirely in software. Usually this means using a DSP, but in the case of the G303i, this processing is done on a personal computer using a sound card (most modern PCs are now faster and more powerful than many DSPs were only a few years ago). So, if you own a PC, the chances are that you already own an important part of a Software Defined Receiver!

Combining modular hardware design with innovative software, the G303i receiver exhibits flexibility not normally found on other PC-based receivers, let alone conventional receivers.

In addition to the flexible and friendly user interface of a PC-based receiver, with its numerous functions and facilities not normally available on any conventional receiver, the WiNRADiO G303i Software-Defined Receiver excells particularly by the ability of its demodulators: While the Standard Demodulator provides performance of a highly respectable shortwave receiver including synchronous AM demodulation and a real-time spectrum scope, the optional Professional Demodulator offers even more: continuous IF filter bandwidth adjustment (in 1Hz increments), interactive block diagrams with two additional audio spectrum scopes, and even inbuilt THD and SINAD measurement facilities.

Additional demodulator types are planned as further options, including a DRM demodulator"

The plus here is unlike a real shortwave. It's very easy to reconfigure. Sort of does for radio what software does for computers. makes it very flexible. Try that with a hardwired radio at the low end.

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

one ham's opinion

[frovingslosh]

I'm a ham, such items normally interest me.

I visited the site (at least it's not slashdoted), but I have no interest in this hack. Here are my complaints:

I wasted time looking at their site, but s far as I could tell they don't want to tell me the price on the thing. If the price is listed anywhere it is certainly not easy to find, even a targeted price range. Do they think I'm so hard up to have this that I'll tell them I want it even if they will not tell the price?

While they don't seem to want to tell the price, they did mention that there will be a standard software demodulator and an optional "Professional demodulator". And more demodulators later. They don't say what the professional demodulator will cost, but as it is optional it certainly will cost. So why would I want to buy their stuff and have crippled non-professional software? And on top of that they know the professional modulator can be replaced with something else in the future that will obviously cost me more money!

OK, I know it costs money to develop software, but in this case when the software is tightly tied to their hardware, I want a company that sells me the hardware and then supports me, not one that tries to bleed me dry, even delivering less than professional software with the basic package and then asking if I want the good software! Of course I want the good software. What I want even more is good open source software, or even hardware interface specs so that I can roll my own. But that is hardly likely to be forthcoming from a company that looks at their hardware customers as cash cows for their software.

There are other issues as well, the inside of a PC is hardly the best environment for a RF receiver. But I might be willing to experiment with this hardware if it was sold with decent software without a bait and switch approach, and the company was more open about things like the prices and the hardware interface.

Re:one ham's opinion

[Anonymous Coward]

This seems to be a common problem with HAM radio in general. It has actually been like that ever since I can remember (back maybe 20+ years).

I call it engineer syndrome. For some reason engineers feel compelled to patent and hide everything they do. It's a superiority complex, but not some some programmers have, it's every single damn one of them bastards. There are tons of HAM's (ie. engineers) that have stifled the hobby by wasting time hiding all their secrets to then only have the project/products die soon after.

Re:one ham's opinion

[GigsVT]

This seems to be a common problem with HAM radio in general. It has actually been like that ever since I can remember (back maybe 20+ years).
I call it engineer syndrome. For some reason engineers feel compelled to patent and hide everything they do.

Every radio I have gotten has always come with full schematics and block diagrams. I'm not sure what you are talking about.

Re:one ham's opinion

[mindstrm]

Winradio tends to have open SDK's for their products, and be free with their specifications. Professional stuff is often simply a software change, not hardware.

I'm sure they provide an SDK so you can write your own demod if you don't like the one you are willing ot pay for.

Also, call any shop that deals Winradio, they will be more than happy to tell you their prices, I'm sure.

Perhaps the price isn't on yet because they aren't ready to sell them yet.

Re:one ham's opinion

[frovingslosh]

I'm sure they provide an SDK so you can write your own demod if you don't like the one you are willing ot pay for.

You can be sure of it if you want, but since I saw absolutely no mention of it on their webpages I'm just as sure it's not available. And I see no reason to try to track down the price on this thing. Maybe it isn't ready yet, so what? They could at least give a suggested retail price or a "less than $xxx" price. If they can't do that then the rest of the advertisement (and that's clearly what it is) is a waste of my time. The real insult is that they want me to give my e-mail address and sign up to be perpetually spammed by them, but can't give me the basic information to see if this thing is an incredible bargain or an overpriced hack.

Re:one ham's opinion

[io333]

> I wish y'all would put an estimated price up on the page... maybe
> it's there somewhere but I didn't see it.
>
>

Thank you for your enquiry. The price will be approx US$500.

Thank you for your interest in our products and we look forward
to be of service to you again soon.

Best regards,
Martin Kent

64-bit

[Dr. Cody]

It sounds interesting, but does it need that 64-bit PCI slot for throughput reasons, or simply for its shear weight?

FAKE:Atencion: Seis Siete Tres Siete Cero

[Anonymous Coward]

Obviously fake. A real Cuban Atencion numbers broadcast would not use an ID ending in Cero.

http://neurosis.hungry.com/~ben/radio/ids.html

Re:WiNRADiO?-flexibility.

[Anonymous Coward]

Sort of does for radio what software does for computers

Oh, you mean it makes radio buggy, expensive, incomplete and never quite capable of doing what it was advertised to do. Swell.

-----------------

Even if your processor is a Hammer, not every problem is a nail!

Re:WiNRADiO?-flexibility.

[Anonymous Coward]

... or if they would open the damn specs and release source code it could be a powerful tool for programmer/radio operators such as myself.

Something like that could really expand the capabilities of amateur radio and the hobby in general.

Unfortunately so many (all?) engineers are more concerned with living in their little castles and hording all their secrets thinking they'll get so rich. In fact what happens is that they die off and all their work ends up benefitting no-one. There is no huge money making body of people out there for amateur radio, IT DOES NOT EXIST, get that through your thick heads all you engineers.

I can't tell you how much HAM software out there could be so much better if they would just release the source. Those guys arn't programmers but they know the technical details, I could make the software into something great and really damn useful given the chance...

another dumb product

[aXi]

just another dumb product. Users will be asking stupid questions like:
- Why does my computer hang every time I try to print on my (win-)printer and use the winradio.
- Why won't the winradio work simultaniously with my (win-)modem ?
- Why does my 12Ghz amd Opteron 64bit processor grind to a halt upon activating my winradio - (win)audio ?
Why don't these buggers just put a simple programmable-dsp with some memmory on board.if they want to give user/programmers a flexible card ?
O I forgot, they have to make any and all products software based, otherwhise they won't be "innovative" anymore....

bottom line

[ArchieBunker]

DSP chips are expensive. We were paying $90 for an ASDP-2101 which runs at about 20Mhz. Why jack up the price for the consumer when you can significantly lower it by using software?

Re:bottom line

[aXi]

Don't forget the cost of having to buy a high performance computer to run such a card. Not to mention all the memory and clockcycles that are requiered to run that driver.

SWL Blah Blah Blah

[alamut]

why would i even bother?

for 300$ US i can get an Icom PCR-1000. it does 60Hz-1295Mhz (stupid cell blocked, bah!), has windows, linux and even macos support, only needs a serial interface (works just fine on a USB->serial adapter, even), and i can place it as far as i want from my RF noisy computer shack.

and it uses 13.8vdc. get the picture?

did i mention it was 300$?

Re:SWL Blah Blah Blah

[maxentius]

ICOM rocks. Dependable professional radios.

Re:SWL Blah Blah Blah

[Anonymous Coward]

I just bought one for $400! :(

And people get excited about War Flying... Heheh you have no idea what you can do with the right equipment. The air around is us filled with information, all you have to do is listen.

Re:SWL Blah Blah Blah

[John Jorsett]

for 300$ US i can get an Icom PCR-1000. it does 60Hz-1295Mhz (stupid cell blocked, bah!),

According to the Icom specs, the lower frequency is 100 khz. And in a couple of minutes I was able to find instructions for unblocking it (even the ones with serial #s above 4000).

Why?

[rice_burners_suck]

Not to put anybody down, but if this is a card that must be installed in a computer, why then isn't the software executed on a small microprocessor on the card, relieving the main processor from having to mess with it? After all, this is how graphics boards are made faster, and come to think of it, even keyboards work this way, so why shouldn't every peripheral do its internal work in the peripheral?

Hmm..

[Anonymous Coward]

Does this mean that the GNU software radio is not so groundbreaking as we had thought?

Or is its application somehow more general than this?

The card is small, but the antennas aren't

[Anonymous Coward]

SW antennas can be huge. You can get a folding dipole and just take it out every once in a while. Then there's that wire that runs from the computer to the antenna and the hole in the wall/window to run it through. If you need two antennas (NS vs. EW, Yagi vs. dipole, quad vs. bare wire, etc), you might want an antenna selector. How about a lightning protector? High quality BALUN? Super fancy coax or ladder wire? Is it coming into focus yet? Yeah I played with homemade "apartment antennas". They suck.

Nobody mentioned bouncing signals? Nobody mentioned ground clutter? Trees? Apartments? Housing restrictions and regulations?

I sold my radio and spent it on computer hardware, but I still have my license. It looks nice and respectable, and I only had to pass a couple of tests to get it. The FCC is free to inspect it whenever they want. ;)

If anybody wants to get into it, don't let me discourage you. It can be a little fun.

Re:The card is small, but the antennas aren't

[Anonymous Coward]

Doesn't sound like you're a very thrifty ham. My antenna cost me a few bucks. I bought some throw away RG-58 coax at a ham fest for a few cents a foot. I bought a spool of 18 AWG ground wire at Home Depot for $15. I hand-fashioned a dipole (which as you know, of course, doesn't require a balun.. you knew that right?) and tacked it up along the wall inside my apartment. My Icom R75 pulls in all sorts of military traffic. I track where the military moves aircraft (why are they moving a bunch of C-5's to Qatar?). Lots of fun, and the antenna works fine. You're doing something wrong.

weatherfax software?

[nadaou]

I take it one of these could be used to recieve weather fax signals- does anyone know of any open source software/hardware projects that can re-build the weather maps from the A/D signal??

A laptop solution would be a quite useful for remote sites.

A simple search on freshmeat & sourceforge doesn't turn up anything.

What's weather fax?

You're all idiots.

[Anonymous Coward]

As noted in the GNU Radio thread (gee, wonder why this story flowed in, eh?), the magic of software radio is that you *can* spectrum-analyze a wide swath of band- *and* even decode multiple narrowband signals simultaneously.

Computer-controlled radios have been around forever (viz your TV card or similar, or any rig powered by a microcontroller). This one's special because it is, in fact, a true software radio.

Alinco even built the 'turn the virtual knob fast' feature to provide a view of adjacent channels in their ~$150 amateur handhelds; scanners do the same thing, but care about simple squelch threshholds rather than sampling signal strengths. Even a 'real' spectrum analyzer is just 'turning the knob fast enough' to provide a seemingly realtime view of things.

Software Controlled Radios

[n9fzx]

Like any peripheral, there are two basic approaches to interfacing with the beast:

1. Internal. This is the Winradio approach. The good news is that, as processors become faster and faster, they're able to absorb more of the electronics into software layers. The latest WinRadio is akin to all those Winmodems we've seen. However, the environment within a computer case isn't exactly the best place to put an RF circuit -- it's full of all kinds of strong fields and oddball harmonics.

2. External. A much nicer place to put your radio is in a nice RF tight box a few feet away from all that nonlinear harmonic crapola. And, after all, the output is relatively low bandwidth, so bring it into the system through an I/O port -- USB, 1394, heck even a serial port will do.

What you really want is an Icom PCR-1000, covers 100 kHz to 1.3 GHz (continuous if you shop in Akihabara), multimode. Hook it up to a serial port and an audio in jack, and you're all set to vacuum the ether.

Or, just check out the JavaRadio network of PCR-1000 equipped sites around the world...

USB or FW interface?

[g4dget]

That kind of device cries out for a USB or FireWire interface. It doesn't need the extra bandwidth of the PCI bus, but it would be nice to be able to move it from machine to machine without having to take the computer apart.

Something in that direction is the ICOM PCR-100 receiver (serial port for control, audio output for--audio). Unfortunately, open source software seems less common in the amateur radio and shortwave communities--people seem to come from a DOS world, which limits what you can do with many of the computer controllable receivers and radios. Still, there is some software, e.g., http://qsy.to/pcr/control.html.

Re:USB or FW interface?

[donovansmith]

There is a lot of software for the Ten-Tec RX320 computer-controlled HF receiver. Ten-Tec openly publishes the commands needed to control the receiver, which is controlled by a 9600bps serial connection, and even some example source code. My favorite software is by Gerd Niephaus. It isn't flashy, but it sure is functional. And this radio is darned good, too.

Shortwave is Okay Guys!

[neildiamond]

Shortwave is ideal for people who aren't connected to the web. Believe it or not, many people around the world aren't. Many international broadcasters still use shortwave to broadcast to developing nations. Shortwave is also harder to censor than Google. (Yes, you can jam it, but sometimes broadcasters can get around the jammers.)
Another important thing to mention is that shortwave is the only link to the outside world for some folks. I believe that the BBC recently quit (or at least scaled down) their shortwave broadcasts on shortwave. Despite the Lindows PCs, radios are usually cheaper than computers and easier to hide for people living under hostile governments.

That being said, someone who needs a shortwave receiver in the 3rd world probably doesn't have a computer. For those of us in developed nations, this might make sense. A couple of years ago I might have considered it if it was better than a traditional shortwave radio. However, if the BBC doesn't broadcast on shortwave in America anymore, there isn't much else to listen to (please correct me if I'm wrong on this, cause I'd like to know). The only thing I've found are religious broadcasters. There are plenty of places to find religion on the dial already. Unfortunately I can't even get CBC or VOA on American shortwave frequencies. Thank god for cable modems!

If you're looking for some great audio, radio links and discussion, take a look at AudioExchange.org.

Taking your money!

[Anonymous Coward]

> why then isn't the software executed on a small microprocessor on the card, relieving the main processor from having to mess with it?

Because of the exact reason somebody put on the market those awful winmodems some time ago: make money selling inferior/half working products.

Given that the card "X" that does the "Y" task costs for example $100, if I make a card that does the same thing but delegates 50% of its work to your cpu, I can save a ton of money by removing (now) unnecessary technology from my card and sell it for a little lower price.
Wonderful, isn't it?
No, because now your computer runs slower, and you actually wasted more money than you think you've saved.

Buy only full working products. They're easier to install, easier to program (read: Linux and Mac drivers easier to write) and there are no hidden "undocumented features" like eating your CPU power for something that a $5 chip could do.

That's one honking "PC card"

[jpellino]

"...the world's first dedicated shortwave receiver on a PC card."

Don't force it, get a bigger hammer. Or an editor. (It's that way on their site too...)

Applications beyond voice?

[photonic]

Does anybody know if there are other applications for this kind of hardware except for listening to sound transmissions (radio/chatbox/intelligence)?

One of the things i could imagine is the DCF77 signal here in Europe (radio broadcast of atomic precision time at 77 kHz). Others might be GPS (although this probably is to complicated to do entirely in software).

Really..

[mindstrm]

Are you sure you are talking about the same product? The winradio cards I look at do all KINDS of neat digital decoding.

They will follow trunking, decode pager data, listen to digital transmission, decode satellite imagery, etcetera....

Does a Sony radio do that? Or even a grundig?

Right you are.

[mindstrm]

what you WANT is this: the main Winradio 1500i (too bad it's ISA... hmm. no pci cards?

The frequency range is 150 kHz to 1.5 GHz, and you can use all their fancy software to decode all kinds of things.

Of curse, being the Land of the Free, as stated on the site, "the US version excludes cellular frequencies 825-849 and 869- 894 MHz"

So order one from Canda and have it shipped down.

Re:Right you are.

[Anonymous Coward]

Which is illegal and hopefully customs would seize it at the border.

BBC not broadcast to USA anymore

[Anonymous Coward]

A couple of years ago the BBC decided to stop broadcasting to North America, presumably for budgetary reasons. I listened to the "Beeb" for ten years when going to sleep at night but now have to listen to it's RealAudio netcast. Needless to say, I don't listen to it very much at all anymore, because that's pretty inconvenient.

Too bad, I remember that the first I heard of Iraq's invasion of Kuwait in 1990 was from the evening broadcast of the BBC World Service.

Re:BBC not broadcast to USA anymore

[Anonymous Coward]

Well if you had done about 2 minutes of homework, you'd realize that the BBC broadcasts on 5975 to the Caribbean and it's plainly audible at least in the Eastern US, probably even the west coast. World Service is World Service.

A Better Product

[N2UX]

TenTec has had a similar product out for quite awhile. The RX-320 has been out for a couple of years, and (IMHO) is a much better solution. The RX-320 is an external general coverage receiver that is completely DSP based. I've had one of these for a couple of years and love it. TenTec even publishes a complete "programmer's guide and schematic" on their website, which includes the entire spec for controlling the radio. Using this spec, I've written control programs in C, PHP, PDP-8 assembler, and am now working on one in PDP-11 assembler.
The RX-320 is encased in a steel box and seems to be fairly impervious to RF interference, at least in my environment. It also doesn't take up a slot inside the pc which could be used for other things.

Re:A Better Product

[Anonymous Coward]

But, unlike the WiNRADIO, it is not completely software based.

You can't reprogram the IF subsystem or anything.

Of course, you can't currently do that will a WM because the dumbasses won't release the specs or souce code. You could if they did though.

Re:A Better Product

[Anonymous Coward]

TenTec has a number of DSP based radios, including amateur and military transmitters for different bands. I own a TenTec Pegasus, a completely computer controlled 100W transciever, with a DSP IF for both transmit and receive. It sits right next to my RX-320.

The Winradio is nothing new...

Re:A Better Product (corrected URL)`

[N2UX]

Whoops. It looks like tentec's web server is case sensitive. The correct URL for the schematics and programmers guide is http://www.tentec.com/RX320FTP/htm

Ham Radio and Free Software

[n9fzx]

That's probably because computing in ham radio predates the Free/Open Software movements by more than a decade. Most of the first microcomputer hobbyists were hams, because amateur radio shortwave nets allowed people to swap experiences and help each other out. And of course, many of the first applications written were for the ham shack, from RTTY terminals to logbooks to propagation forecasting to satellite orbital prediction.

As time wore on, programs written for the x80-CP/M environment were ported to the x86-DOS world because that's what was available, and most radio applications required what the PC gave you -- the whole machine. But, in all this time, there was never a heritage of code-sharing, since making a little money on the side allowed you to defray the costs of the hobby. That's one well-known characteristic of hams -- they're cheapskates by nature or pick it up as they go on -- and as a result many ham radio innovations are economic, not technical.

As more modern multitasking operating systems showed up, non-realtime apps have been ported to them, and some amazing semi-realtime DSP work has been done, such as the various PSK31 implementations. And many of these are at least of an Open philosophy -- almost all of the PSK31 implementations, for example, are based on a single core DLL produced under a "share and enjoy" license.

So indeed, amateur radio comes from the DOS world, and the Free Nuxis have a lot of catching up to do.

Re:Ham Radio and Free Software

[Anonymous Coward]

"So indeed, amateur radio comes from the DOS world, and the Free Nuxis have a lot of catching up to do."

Everybody and their brother manages to deliver embedded and real-time systems based on Linux. It's then only amateur radio operators that seem to have problems.

Besides, there is FreeDos, as well as open source RTOS'es.

"That's probably because computing in ham radio predates the Free/Open Software movements by more than a decade."

It does? Really? The GNU project started in 1983, and folks at MIT started writing free software in 1973.

I know amateur radio enthusiasts like to see themselves as bearers of freedom and technological progress, but that self-image differs a bit from reality.

Re:Ham Radio and Free Software

[n9fzx]

Yes. There was a lot of ham software written for the PDP-8, 10, and 11, and much of this was ported to the 8080 and 6800 in 1975/1976.

Never discount the value of dusty decks and Code Inertia.

Frankly, nobody in their right fleeping mind does honest realtime work on Linux; if anything, the various tiny BSD kernels would be the tool of choice. Most realtime code these days is written either for nuxi-like environments like VxWorks, or hand bummed for custom threaded operating systems.

I wouldn't exactly proclaim ham radio as a bearer of tech progress either. As I stated above, the innovations have been more economic than technical at times. But give credit where credit is due. Where you around for the Sheet Metal Days of microcomputing? How do you think the hardware community communicated and swapped fixes back then? Yes, you could wait for the bi-monthly flimsy newsletter that some poor hack put out on an irregular basis. Or you could instead interact with the weekly net on 20 meters, ask if anyone had seen a problem or had a fix, and have them describe it to you directly. The choice is pretty obvious.

over the air versus streaming

[Anonymous Coward]

--I listen to and support the patriot/freedom oriented broadcasting like you get from genesis communications. gcnlive.com. Although they stream, it's pretty expensive for them, anytime you can get the over the air shortwave or local affiliate am or fm broadcast it helps them out. In addition, it's kinda hard to really tell you about shortwave listening until you've done it a lot, there are approximately 10 zillion channels and interesting things to listen to on the air, the bulk of which aren't streamed. Just another note, this card radio might work ouitstanding, but chances are 99.999% probable you really will need a long wire antenna to get much, and by all means, unplug that sucker BEFORE storms, heh.

Snooping the Airwaves

[Punchinello]

When I was in college my fraternity had an antenna on the roof of the house connected to a receiver that let us listen in on analog cell phone and cordles phone conversations around campus and around town.

It is my understanding the the FCC prohibits the sale of devices (in the US) that pick up the frequencies needed to do this anymore.

Will this device tune into these prohibited frequencies? I admit I don't know the first thing about what things transmit on various frequencies. At the time we had a big frequency catalog that told us what channels to tune into to listen to cell phones, Air Force One, cordless phones, and many other interesting things.

Re:Snooping the Airwaves

[Punchinello]

I guess this link answers part of my question. It appears this receiver works in a wide enough range to pick up any analog cell phone or cordless phone signal and listen in. Am I reading this correctly?

http://www.howstuffworks.com/cordless-telephone1 5. htm

Re:Snooping the Airwaves

[Anonymous Coward]

Heck, my dad has this trick where he turns on a portable phone, sets it buy this old portable tv with analog dials, and surfs the (I think its VHF) band and we've picked up cell phones & pagers crystal clear.

Triangulation network

[spRed]

I know how triangulation 'works' but I don't know the specifics. How close do the three receivers have to be to get decent accuracy?

Having a nation wide network of PCs with these cards would allow you to triangulate pretty much any transmission. Just put your desired frequency into the network and coalate the data from your peers.

Cool stuff

sniff me

[Anonymous Coward]

Wow.

Now how long before we have a PCI Betty Crocker Oven that can cook up crunchy snacks, open up the modified 5 1/4" floppy bay mini-oven door and w00t! instant grindage buuuuuuuuuuddy!

pcmcia

[nomel]

If they squish one of these things into a PCMCIA card, I would be happy!

Price is not so much the issue

[aXi]

If you look at what their cards cost, price is no longer the issue.
Just look at their Winradio's pricelist, you will see that the price difference between the WR-3150i-DSP ($1995.00) and the WR-3150e ($1995.00) is nil. Yet one has a DSP the other doesn't. ( Comparison of Winradio's products )
The reason they build such cards is that they may implement reception restriction legislation in software rather then in hardware. Another reason is they will sell several cards to people that eventually will create their own software to circumvent those restrictions.
Quoted from two of their own product specifications : "Note: In some countries certain frequencies may be omitted due to government legislation." and " The frequency range is 150 kHz to 1.5 GHz. (The publicly available US version excludes cellular frequencies 825-849 and 869-894 MHz)." ( see: WR-3150e .

Australian buyers tread lightly - misleading price

[B747SP]

The winradio company has been around for ages now. Nothing new here, except that they've come up with what is possibly their least usefull product ever!

In any case, would-be Australian buyers beware. They list suppliers on the site for all of the world except locals, then say "If you're from Australia or the Pacific Rim, you're welcome to buy direct from us".

But the prices in their online store are all in US dollars. How many Aussies have missed the fine print and been burned by this little bit of misleading? Not happy Jan.[1]

[1] Local joke. You had to be here (.au).

Last Post!

[alpg]

Thus spake the master programmer:
"When you have learned to snatch the error code from
the trap frame, it will be time for you to leave."
-- Geoffrey James, "The Tao of Programming"

- this post brought to you by the Automated Last Post Generator...