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GRE Computer Science Exam Canceled For '02
An anonymous reader writes "This may be a bit dated, but the Educational Testing Service has canceled the Computer Science GRE exam for November due to the fact that students were sharing and posting exam questions. One has to wonder about the immediate effect this will have on grad school admittance, as well as the long term changes that will likely occur to the tests as a result."
The GRE Computer Science exam counts more than one would think. If you ever want to get into a good (read top 10) Ph.D. program you need to place yourself in the 85 percentile. This, of course, is no easy task. The test is comprehensive of all major areas of computer science.
Many overseas master's students take this exam to try to place themselves in a good U.S. program. (which is understandable) I don't think all of them were cheating. It was probably only a few, but ETS needs to be able make sure that all students have a fair chance.
Yes, I have taken this exam.
Yes, I got my a** kicked by it.
Yes, I got into a good Master's Program.
Yes, I got a job!
Go ME!
Even before students started sharing test questions on the internet, standardized tests only test memorization. It does is terrible job of measuring intelligence and critical analysis. Why in the world people believe SAT and GRE are useful is beyond me. Sure the system has been that way for a long time and everyone knows it's broken, but no one is willing to fix it. People with money to send their kids to test prep schools are the ones who benefit from standardized tests.
Not that anyone cares, but standardized tests were originally created to level the playing field for college admission. I forget who created it (saw a special on discovery), but the original intent was to make it so a smart poor kid could get into college. In practice, that is far from reality. Most of the kids who score well on standardized tests get the results because of test prep schools. People who are brilliant don't count, since they don't need to study in the first place. Children of those who make less than 50K have a harder time, since they can't afford it. I fail to see how paying for a test prep school, which use old tests for practice is different from kids posting the questions for free. Well, except that it negates the need to pay 2K for GRE prep class.
Considering it's a Computer Science exam, I propose that whoever hacked in to get the questions in the first place should get an automatic 100.
P.S.
Yes, I read the article. I took comedic licence with the facts. (I didn't like them, so I ignored them.)
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- - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.
Regardless of your feelings about this particular case, does it seem to you like people, especially in America, are less ethical than they have been in previous generations or is that just "greatest generation" nostalgia? I'm pretty sure there is a lot more cheating now than there used to be even twenty years ago, leading to business practices like those seen at Tyco and Enron.
Syntax error: loose != lose, affect != effect, then!=than
My quantum mechanics teacher has a very good solution to this. He had a file with 100 problems. An exam was a random draw of 3 of those. You could get all problems, plus all completely elaboreated answers from him if you asked for it. If you could memorize the correct answers to those 100 questions, you knew what was required for the subject...
Especially if you read the article, it states that the real problem was in China and India; as a result there will be no CS GRE in those countries this academic year. So not only will students from those countries face the generally tougher requirements that international students face when applying to US schools, but for this year they won't have the advantage of a GRE score which shows that they know what's what.
So no, it's not a tragedy because it doesn't affect students coming from the US, only those dirty foreigners.
> This department recieves MANY applications from Asia and the GRE scores are a joke. Almost all of the applicants have a 99% percentile on ALL three sections of the general exam. And yet when they come here they can barely speak english.
And go easy on the sweeping generalizations. Maybe you are unaware that English is a first language in some of the countries from asia.
I did my undergrad from a well-known premier technology institute in the South Asian subcontinent and every EE and CS grad I knew there really earned his/her GRE score. Most of them were truly brilliant, had a firm command of English and I couldn't possibly imagining any of them cheating for a few extra points. They were ethical and proud brainiacs. Or perhaps I was lucky to have moved in such good company. I wouldn't deny that there were also other lesser mortals who cheated using all these cheap tactics as discovered by the ETS. But you be careful before making any sweeping generalizations.
Someone please explain this to me:
The GRE CS Subject test is (with the exception of this year) offered in April, November and December. Most applications for graduate programs are due in December (or Jan.1 at the latest). I was just starting to prepare for all of this in April, and was shocked to find that there were NO dates for the CS test (which is required or 'strongly recommended' by all the schools to which I'm applying) until November. Since it's a paper-based test, results take 4-6 weeks or so to get through to the schools. Which means that even taking the test in November, there's a chance that your school of choice won't get your CS scores by Dec. 15, a popular application deadline.
WHY? Why on EARTH would the test be offered in December and not, say, July or August? Is it just done that way to make life more frustrating for grad school applicants?
And now, on top of this, the november test is canceled. Thankfully, all the schools to which I'm applying said they're going to happily take late scores this year due to the cancellation, and that it won't affect my application process, but I must say it's driving me nuts that I'll still be worrying about and studying for the CS exam in the final weeks of the application process, when I'd rather be speaking with professors, gathering recommendation letters, and working on my statement of purpose. Instead, I'll still be making sure I've got the ins and outs of compiler design and plenty of other areas of CS that I don't ever plan to really study in depth fresh in my mind, and I won't even know what my scores are before I send in the application.
Oh, well. That's enough crankiness for one morning.
-Dan.
=== "Some people see the glass as half-empty. Others see it as half-full. I see the glass as too big." -G. Carlin.
Deal..
I applied for grad schools about 2.5 years ago, and got 5 rejection letters...
Did I hate 'abroad students'? No.. I did research and grad classes for 2 years, and tried again, last winter, and had a choice between two top shcools, in a much tougher year for grad schools.. I still got 3 rejection letters, but I got in.
Another thing, if you're applying to top schools, try setting your sights a little lower. There are enough spectacular faculty that *any* top-40 school will have them.
Finally, remember, a lot of the application process is chance and brownian motion. If a faculty member is interested in your particular skills&background, spectacular, if that member isn't on the admissions committee this year, better luck next year.
> I don't know what they do over there, but
> every student seems to ace the exams, probably
> because they study so hard for them. The
> exams, thus, aren't measuring anything more
> than rote ability.
You're a very upbeat guy, Dan! I mean, optimistic. I'll tell you how it works -- they cheat.
I live in Taiwan and have a sister-in-law who is studying to take the GRE. The advantage in Asia (India?? -- I think this is a Rumor!) is that they have "Teachers" that take the GRE test every few months on the computer. While they are taking the test, they memorize in their heads each question. Once they're done they come back out and teach 2 month long classes for big $$$ to the students.
I don't know what the history is as far as what cancellation came first, but the GRE people have cancelled the Computer-based General test for the express purpose of reducing continuing cheating that happens in Asia.
Everything in Asia is now written and its going to stay that way for a long time. This is why previously any GRE scores coming from Asia has zero value!
Please note, that I have never even seen these tests, nor know anyone who has ... but I'll still pipe in :)
Instead of keeping the questions and answers "secret" ... create something like the amateur radio community has ... a large question pool (which is published), with a very limited number of questions actually asked.
The reasoning behind it, is for the sake of easily administering tests. Everybody knows the questions involved, and what you need to study is the theory behind it, not the answers ...
Now for something like this, you would have to have a HUGE question pool for each section, just to make sure that nobody knows WHICH question will be asked ... just make sure that you know the theory behind the question.
Obviously, you'll run into problems with programmable calculators being brought in, so a way to fix that would be to supply calculators (if necessary) that have all of the capabilities required.
Anyway ... just my thoughts on the process ...
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