Careers After Tech?

my experience... good then (hopefully) bad by vsync64 · 2002-10-02 18:16 · Score: 3, Interesting

After being laid off from Wego Systems I hunted around in vain for another tech job, eventually landing in the pit of despair that is Office Depot. I just recently quit and hunted around for another 3 months, finally today (yay) getting a job at a hotel. I start out as the night desk clerk, then get promoted to night auditor. We'll see how it works out.

My advice: stay away from retail at all costs. Try something secretarial, in hospitality, or even manual labor. Anything is better than being told all day why your reservations about hard-selling extended warranties are invalid, and that if a product is carried by the company, there can't ever be anything wrong with it, etc. Keep your dignity at all costs.

Oh, and find a job with consistent shifts, if it's hourly. Nothing sucks more than noon one day, 8am the next, 3pm the next. Especially when instead of giving you the schedule the Wednesday before, like you were promised, they decide that Sunday morning is a better time.

I'm optimistic, personally... 23:00-07:00 5 nights a week, with a 2-day break, and no micromanaging bosses.

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TO BUY A NEW CAR WOULD MAKE YOU SEXUALLY ATTRACTIVE.

Good Riddance... by BitGeek · 2002-10-02 18:26 · Score: 5, Insightful

The dotcom "boom" saw a lot of weenies with MCSE's and dipshit "IT guys" like the one in the new apple switch advert "I used to hate macs, now I are one", vinnie pipsqueek.

If you're considering going elsewhere because of the tech slump, I say, good riddance. Too many idiots who didn't understand technology got jobs in the boom anyway. Companies were so desperate for warm bodies that they lowered the bar for hiring to such a level that it was pathetic.

IF you aren't a real engineer-- and by real engineer, I mean someone who learns new technologies in their spare time, someone who wouldn't be cought dead without a computer at home-- then you won't considering leaving.

I worked with a guy once who didn't even have a home computer. He called himself a programmer. Yeah, sure, and I'm a lawyer. He was proud of the fact that he didn't have a computer.

And given the postings of many of the people on slashdot, I think there are a lot of such posers here. (If you think a x86 gets as mauch work done in a clock cycle as a powerpc, you qualify as "not a technical person")

Go back to working retail and leave the entry level jobs for real engineers who simply lack experience (like college students etc.)

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Yeah, and you guys panned the ipod too: http://apple.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=01/10/23/ 1816257

Re:Good Riddance... by BitGeek · 2002-10-02 18:36 · Score: 5, Insightful

In my rant, I misspoke.

Basically, Real Engineers are sticking around for the long haul. We were here before the boom and we will be here afterwards. And those of use who are too young to have been here before the boom are seeing the bust as an opportunity to fine tune our skills and are NOT considering doing anything else.

People "burned out by tech jobs" are people who got into "tech jobs" because it was hot. Because it was the thing. Because companies were so desperate they didn't care, and were often run by unqualified people doing the hiring. One could argue that part of the reason so many of these companies failed is they had incompetent engineering staff (and incompetent management and marketing staff) and provided crappy, and thus, non-profitable services to people.

To all those people who jumped on the tech bandwagon and are not engineers / hackers / competant. (EG: if your title or qualification is "MCSE" or "Web Designer" or you never built a computer or operating system in high school (or something even more geeky like my roomates railgun)) then I say good riddance.

What were you doing sticking around trying to get our jobs anyway? The boom is bust, the party is over, the bandwagon got overloaded and there's no room for you.

If you don't have enough conviction that you're actually considering doing "something non-technical" I say, good riddance.

Those who worked hard and have the financial freedom to go live on a desert island-- YOU have earned the right to be "burned out" on technology and I wish you well.

But the party is definitely over, and if there's any question in your mind, then you do NOT belong in a tech job.

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Yeah, and you guys panned the ipod too: http://apple.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=01/10/23/ 1816257
Re:Good Riddance... by spencerogden · 2002-10-02 19:00 · Score: 3, Insightful

I think you are being a little harsh. It is possible for someone to change their mind about what they want to do you know...

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Spencer Ogden
Re:Good Riddance... by BitGeek · 2002-10-02 19:37 · Score: 5, Insightful

Sure. Its hard to generalize without also catching people you don't intend to in the net.

People who sincerely wanted to be tech workers (and I know some myself) but who are having trouble becoming engineers (and I use that word broadly) I got no beef with. Even if they try for awhile and then give up.

But there are a LOT of people who jumped into the arena with dollar signs in their eyes and wanted to jump on the band wagon *without being technical*.

I got no beef with anyone who's still learning, or is just inexperienced if they are sincere. Its the insincere money chasers to whom I say "Good riddance".

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Yeah, and you guys panned the ipod too: http://apple.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=01/10/23/ 1816257
Re:Good Riddance... by heikkile · 2002-10-02 22:25 · Score: 3, Insightful

Basically, Real Engineers are sticking around for the long haul. We were here before the boom and we will be here afterwards [...] People "burned out by tech jobs" are people who got into "tech jobs" because it was hot.
Not me! I have been in the business since 1975, and I have been "burned out" several times since. I have not left the field, but I have left a number of bad companies behind me.
Unless you are a real technophobe, I fail to see how the tech in itself would make you burn out. Much more likely people burn out because of stress, unreasobale expectations, and bad management.
Stress and bad management may be unusually common among tech jobs, but they certainly exist in all walks of life.

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In Murphy We Turst
Re:Good Riddance... by tzanger · 2002-10-03 01:38 · Score: 5, Insightful

People "burned out by tech jobs" are people who got into "tech jobs" because it was hot.

You must be a bazillionaire, you can read people's minds so well.

I've been in tech for probably 10-12 years now. Hardware, Software, Firmware... design, research, you name it. I'm considering leaving the tech industry. Why? I want some more people contact, frankly.

It didn't make itself known back then. Hacking away for all hours, tweaking this and that, learning the ins and outs of anything I could get my hands on... that's all I wanted. Now that I've had a taste for sales support (i.e. field applications engineering) I'm thinking that that is where my future lies. Going places, talking to people, solving problems, applying my knowledge -- not sticking around in a room and designing widgets, living like some lab rat and never seeing what impact what I make has on the world around me. I've been there and done that, and I want some more interaction. Maybe I'll keep my hardcore tech lust for my own projects now, which may make it fun again.

So because I want to do this, leave the hardcore tech industry, I am suddenly incompetent? Only there because it was cool at the time? Leaving because the party's over? I think you've overinflated your cranial cavity. Not everything happens the way you expect it to, and not everything happens because of how you claim it to.
Re:Good Riddance... by tzanger · 2002-10-03 01:44 · Score: 5, Insightful

My wife doesn't understand why I come home from work and immediately jump on a computer and then spend another couple of hours (outside of work) on it.

And you know what, my wife asks the same thing. I gave the same excuses. Now (with 3 kids) I see her point. What the fuck good is keeping that honed, that general a knowledge at the risk of losing your family, friends and life?

I spent a good portion of my youth and young adult years learning this shit inside and out, backward, frontward and sideways. There's things I haven't touched on in ages but give me an hour and I'll be in the 95th percentile on proficiency. When it comes to computing, electronics and software things just do not change that much. You got 'em down once, you'll get them down much more quickly the second time. There's no need to spend 10 hours at work and another 5 or 6 at home on it.

personally I've got it down to about 8 at work and 2 or 3 at home, and planning on getting it down further yet.
Re:Good Riddance... by NoBeardPete · 2002-10-03 07:44 · Score: 5, Insightful

You seem to be assuming that the only reason one would have for not having a computer at home is that they don't like computers, or doesn't like to program. This is incorrect.

I don't have a computer at home, nor a TV for that matter. The problem isn't that I dislike these things, it's actually quite the opposite. I find when I have access to a computer, all I will do is sit in front of the computer. Taking the larger view of my life, I don't want to sit in front of a computer all the time. A convenient way to do this is to not bother buying a computer for my home.

My not having a computer at home may not add balance to my life, per se, but it sure does make it easier for me to live a balanced life. It makes it harder for me to loose track of time and blow a whole evening. It makes it easier for me to do a wider variety of the stuff I'd like to do, instead of doing a whole lot of just one thing.

You seem to be claiming that no one who really likes technology or computers could possibly burn out on them. Consider that perhaps some people are burning out not because of the actual tech, but because of the blowhards like yourself that infest the field.

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Arrr, it be the infamous pirate, No Beard Pete!

Wow, you're an ass (Re:Good Riddance...) by matt_maggard · 2002-10-02 19:48 · Score: 3, Insightful

Don't know if I'll get applauded or flamed for this but oh well.

I have no doubt that your are a bigger "techie" than me. I have never hand built a computer, I didn't learn to code anything in grade school and I've never had anything to do with a railgun. I do however enjoy the things that computers help me accomplish. That's why I'm a graphic designer (and html programmer -a not always easy job that is not very respected around here). I moved into tech because the idea of interactive and functional design appealed to me a lot more than static pretty pictures in a magazine or on the side of a box.

But you know what? This industry drove the joy of design out of me. I'm sick of the mess that every project becomes. I'm sick of rushing through everything to get it out the door. I'm sick of political in-fighting between departments.

I'm hoping that this 'tech" guy can leave the industry behind and let me start enjoying design work that I do for my own fulfillment. In my opinion, the tech industry takes a lot more out of you than it gives back.

Whoever said that you should turn your hobby into a career should be shot. All that does is turn your hobby into work and all that entails (manager, deadlines, 8 hours a day of your "hobby"). I'd prefer my hobbies to stay enjoyable.

As for what I'm turning to, teaching. I'm going back to school for my teaching certificate so I can teach graphic design and adobe apps to high school kids. Maybe a little down tha line, a law degree or my own (non-design) business.

-matt

Re:Wow, you're an ass (Re:Good Riddance...) by BitGeek · 2002-10-02 20:17 · Score: 4, Insightful

It's certainly not about knowing more than you. There are people who know more than me. People I went to high school with who now have doctorates from MIT and design systems far above my ability.

I suspect you're going to be in for a rude awakening when you start teaching and you find it is more of a joyless grind than tech jobs. Teaching is fraught with politics, and by definition, is an environment suffering from an unresponsive, oppressive, CYA style bureaucracy which insures that all the money stays at the top in overhead and none of the joy gets down to the teachers. (which is the case for all taxpayer , rather than customer, funded organizations.) There's no incentive in it- lots of people don't have more valuable (as in economically) skills than to teach and so there are lots of teachers to grind thru.

Its like nursing. A very important job but they waste nurses- they use them up and throw them away.

The tech industry is not going away. It is not dying or shrinking. What we've seen is a slowdown in GROWTH. It will continue to grow and it will grow faster in the future. You're a creative person, learn java. Its the nature of reality that some ways of expressing yourself are more profitable than others. Painting is profitable for very few, java is profitable for far more, and the gap will get wider, not smaller.

Deadlines and 8 hour days are the nature of business. Politics is the nature of people. You're going to find those anywhere that people actually expect you to be productive for some business purpose (including teaching.)

You may be one of the people I was ranting about if you got into the tech industry because you thought you'd get easy money for your hobby. But I got no beef with you if you recognize the economic realities and learn the skills necessary to be viable, whatever those are for you. They may merely be how to cope with a deadline driven environment and 8 hour days, while still providing high quality results.

Or how to find companies that will provide an environment that allows that.

With any job you're going to get out of it something akin to what you put into it. Its not the industry that takes more out of you than it gives... it could be poor choice of companies, or non-investment in yourself that caused that.

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Yeah, and you guys panned the ipod too: http://apple.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=01/10/23/ 1816257

My Retirement Plan by Zarf · 2002-10-03 01:06 · Score: 3, Interesting

For retirement I plan on being a crotchety old geek that teaches mathematics and computer programming in a community college somewhere nice. I figure it would be good to teach night courses since I hate mornings and I would be giving real world experience and direction to kids and young adults who really need it.

If tech doesn't work out in the near term, I'm planning on trying to "retire early" and getting a teaching certificate. Most fun I ever had was teaching a College level Programming class to freshmen. I might not get the college freshmen with a certificate but maybe I could get the High School seniors?

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[signature]

Ebb and flow of tech workers by AtariDatacenter · 2002-10-03 01:59 · Score: 3, Insightful

I kind of think along the lines of BitGeek (above). Over a decade ago, my area of the country was flooded with unemployeed workers from the oil industry. They were doing the same things... getting jobs at Sears, etc. But for the most part, it wasn't your more skilled petroleum engineers who delivered results that were placed on the sidelines.

There WERE a lot of marginal hacks that were hired over the past few years and tried to pass themselves off as computer professionals. For the most part, you're seeing them as the ones losing their jobs, and having trouble finding new ones. "You can't do that to me! I am an Internet Professional!!!" (For some reason, I'm reminded of a scene from the Internet personality Ben Brown here.)Your better employees aren't having as much problem.

And people who are hiring right now know that the market is flooded with B-list players. They're common, and generally unwanted. It is only a matter of time before they give up and look for jobs elsewhere. Really, this isn't a bad thing.

Re:Ebb and flow of tech workers by BitGeek · 2002-10-03 07:10 · Score: 3, Insightful

Part of the problem is that to discern a quality engineer from one who is a B-list player, as you put it, exceeds the skills of every HR professional I've ever known.

Since the HR industry is even more overwhelmingly staffed by b-list people, they are completely unable to tell an engineer from a "Internet Professional" So it is bad for the good people too-- until their resume manages to randomly hit the desk of someone who can tell and engineer from a resume writer, the market is tough.

But this problem cuts both ways-- if the hiring that was done in the boom had been done correctly in the first place, the hacks wouldn't have gotten hired and the boom probably wouldn't have busted as bad.

The HR profession is close to cops and lawyers on my list. Not as corrupt and evil, but just as incompetent. (Which is not to say I haven't met competent ones. They are just few and far between.)

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Yeah, and you guys panned the ipod too: http://apple.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=01/10/23/ 1816257

Teaching English as a Foreign Language by dazdaz · 2002-10-03 02:37 · Score: 3, Informative

http://www.tefl.com/
http://www.teflasia.com/
ht tp://www.asiatefl.com/

whoa by sulli · 2002-10-03 06:57 · Score: 3, Funny

you've got some attitude there, my friend.

What were you doing sticking around trying to get our jobs anyway?

Sounds like a Teamster pissed at the non-union competition. Who made you the one to say whose jobs they are? If someone wants to work in tech, great, let 'em. If you're more qualified, you'll get the job instead, right? In the words of the late Clara Peller, where's the beef?

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sulli
RTFJ.

What the high flyers will be doing next by WIAKywbfatw · 2002-10-03 16:08 · Score: 3, Funny

Bill Gates - philanthropist (we can only hope)
Steve Ballmer - dance instructor (he can only hope)
Steve Jobs - playboy billionaire by day, super spy by night (he always gets the cool gigs)
Paul Allen - sporting magnate (congrats Paul, you're already there)
Larry Ellison - interior designer (daaling, I just love what you've done with the house)
Philippe Kahn - TV chef (a good cook who knows how to make things from nothing is priceless)
Carly Fiorina - take over the Martha Stewart empire (because it needs to re"invent" itself)
Michael Dell - pro surfer (dude, you're getting a board!)
Jean-Louis Gassee - paranoid schizophrenic (why won't they just let him Be?)

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"Accept that some days you are the pigeon, and some days you are the statue." - David Brent, Wernham Hogg

Re:What the high flyers will be doing next by WIAKywbfatw · 2002-10-03 17:34 · Score: 3, Interesting

When you have billions giving away a few million is nothing.

When you have $50 billion (give or take), $100 million is only 0.2 percent of your net worth. It's like a guy who has $1000 giving away $2.

Granted, the Gates Foundation is bigger than that (according to their annual report they gave $1 billion in grants last year) but some of their reporting is misleading - a considerable proportion of their education-based aid is in the form of Microsoft software and/or has other Microsoft-related terms and conditions applied to it.

How much does a copy of Office notionally cost? $800? Well, give away 100,000 copies to education and there's $80 million already. And let's not forget Encarta, etc.

And while $1 billion dollars might sound like a lot, it's probably less than what the foundation earns in annual interest alone.

Don't get me wrong, I'm glad that the foundation is there and that it's doing something to help fight AIDs, improve literacy, etc, it's just that I don't like their accounting practices - a copy of Office isn't as valuable as a couple of hundred TB vaccinations.

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"Accept that some days you are the pigeon, and some days you are the statue." - David Brent, Wernham Hogg

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