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Call For Linux 2.5 Testers
An anonymous reader writes "Linus has put out a call for testers with the release of 2.5.40. IDE appears to be in working condition, and the only really obvious thing that could be a problem anymore is the lack of any working volume manager... (LVM is b0rk, atm) So unless that's a problem, start your kernel compiles."
if we actually get people testing this, then we won't have to wait serveral versions down the 2.6.x (or is it 3.0.x) road before it is considered stable.
However, this time around, many of the new things have been in development outside the kernel for several years, with heavy testing (ALSA being the best example of this). I may give 2.5 a try...
Were you asked to put it into production? Of course there are other problems, thats why its a test kernel. But maybe there is a problem that only shows up on a certain configuration you use, wouldn't it be nice(assuming you have the time) to try it out now, let them know about any problems so that 2.6 is even more stable? Isn't that the whole point of open developement?
Spencer Ogden
Linux distributions vary wildly in their various eclectic incarnations as to how things are supposed to get done. My favorite system I have seen thus far is Gentoo. I like to see source usage encouraged, base system clearly defined, reference design and methods of extension al la ports (or emerge).
An open question, if I have suggestions or problems, is there a place for people who don't have time to live and die by Linux to "drop it in the suggestion box?" I had some problems here and there in the past and have found that people "don't want to hear it." I don't mind being incorrect, but I don't take correction without explanation. I have yet to year why there is a good reason for things that don't compile being checked into 2.4.STABLE - which I also follow.
So as far as beta testing goes for Linux kernel. Do they want beta testers? The attitude on the mailing lists ranges from super helpful (some code maintainers are very good about dealing with breakage) to this "if you cant write a better implementation, FO, I don't want to hear its broke, don't like it don't use it". In any case, how is it exactly us trying to use this kernel going to help the better it if the method of information ingress is unclear? Is there a procedure? Like Mozilla when it faults, you get to send errors in, stuff like that. Is there a memory dump in the kernel yet or is that still a patch (it's a tradition that kernels dump to swap then copy on boot do you can see what the computer was doing if it panics). One thing about Linux - if you compile it, load the crap out of it to test it, if it doesn't panic in the 1st day it seems to never panic - which is good.
Just an FYI for people getting into kernel stuff with RedHat-ish systems:
Getting Linux via bitkeeper.
Also don't forget.
-
- make install doesn't work with grub, so you have to do your thing manually now
- recommended compiler is gcc-2.9.5.3 [for 2.4 and 2.5 now], I always have extra compilers ready to go just in case. Make sure all the tools are the proper version, and that you have a recent ksymoops (if you need to do any messing around looking for problems ), modutils - etc.
If the build fails, find the offending code and remove from selection, or try to hack it if you need it.
Legalize the constitution. Think for yourself question authority.
But, it definitely appears stable enough to do some testing without worrying about trashing your system.
You are being MICROattacked, from various angles, in a SOFT manner.
"There is a reason where there are many 2.0.x and 2.2.x servers out there."
He's not asking you to test it on your servers. The new kernel isn't released yet, this is only for people who would like to contribute by testing and reporting any problems that might occur, so that you get your stable kernel.
Members of the kernel development community don't seem to agree that the development kernel will function on IDE drives without destroying them...
Maybe instead of bloating the featureset, they should be working on getting the I/O working?
I/O? Are you seriously complaining that the IO thruput is lacking? I'm guessing you're talking about the interactive feel.
So and so, but I bet you don't even run 2.5.X. Granted the 2.4 imho is still interactively crap. It's been ever since the vm "improvement" starting with 2.4.10-preX and how last fall those fscking db-benchmarkers showed up on lkml. I bet they got their 1% improvements for their db and on the same they bollocksed my developement desktop usability to a level it felt like win95. Atleast I learned a lot more about the vm and scheduling internals and loads of neat tricks how to improve latency (e.g. more memory and no, Hz up, neg-nicing X, nicing back ground stuff, A.Morton's low latency and lock breaking patches.)
BUT I must say that the 2.5 is a step forward from 2.4 also in this manner. I've been running 2.5s all along and these late 2.5.30s, especially 2.5.39, have been goodish. Not the kind of interactivity as there should be, still.
Although I'm still seriously pissed off how all the main developers seemed to disregard all the cries about interactivity last fall and winter on lkml. There SHOULD be a proc or even a compile time possibility to tweak it into serverish/db or desktop usage. On a desktop developement you couldn't care less if your compile or what ever the fsck you're doing on the back ground takes 5% longer, but if what ever you're actually interacting with lags like hell, it annoys the living crap out of you. I mean, if I press the button while I'm compiling, obviously that button press is more important ffs.
1 Earth is warming, 2 It's us, 3 it's royally bad, 4 we need to take action NOW
I actually grabbed 2.5.39 a few days ago, all
ready to upgrade my home system out and give
it a good play.
After fixing 4 compile-stopper errors (yes, they've been reported on the kernel lists) I gave up.
Sorry, but if the thing hasn't even been tested to see if it
even using obscure device drivers or compile
options.
(This is on PPC btw, one of the major platforms)
I'm happy to run development kernels and report
bugs/issues. But when the risk of having to reinstall from backups gets too high, sorry, that's just too much work.
I accept that some development kernels will be substantially broken while major changes are happening, but those ones aren't the ones that people should be encouraged to test.
- MugginsM
Yes, when I exit VMWare and write a big honkin' suspend file, my machine hangs up until it is done, but my real problems are disk corruption with my HPT370 controller that everyone on lk list ignores and run on sentences.
Joe
Joe Batt Solid Design
There was no real need to change the IDE code, but some people felt it was a mess and needed to be cleaned up. Unfortunately, it broke badly in the process, so the 2.4 IDE was ported to 2.5, putting things back pretty much as they were. Kernel Traffic is a good source of information about all this stuff. Of course, this is a vast oversimplification, and some of the activity was due to your standard mailing list flame war.
The ocean parts and the meteors come down
Laid out in amber, baby.
Not true. Read lkml. There have been some problems in the IDE code that have borked partitions.
Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. -John Lennon
No, the AC said that there was only one problem left. I understand what ?.odd.* releases are for. The person who wrote the blurb does not. The person who wrote the blurb is implying that 2.5.* is much safer than what it really is.
Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. -John Lennon
It's comments like, "there's no working volume manager at the moment," that scare the hell out of me.
I run Linux for my back-end fileservers at work, and am in the middle of adding more. Right now I just use one partition per disk, and so I end up with a bunch of partitions.
I would dearly love to use some kind of striping RAID, or at least a concatenation. But when the LVM-type code keeps getting rewritten between every release, it's just too risky. I look with longing at my Sun boxes, where DiskSuite has been doing Jus' Fine[tm] for the past several years, and continues to be supported.
You cannot apply a technological solution to a sociological problem. (Edwards' Law)
I figured most of the moderators haven't. kt.zork.net is my first stop Monday morning. IDE is just now starting to get to the point where it isn't really screwing things up left and right. Of course, that could have been 5-10 releases ago given the frequency of 2.5 releases.
I fully believe that testing experimental kernels is one way for people to give back. But I think the blurb in this writeup was a bit misleading.
(It would also help if there were a HOWTO on how regular, non-coding doofuses like myself could learn how to send in bug reports and to whom.)
Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. -John Lennon