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EBay Letting Fraud Slide?
joebagodonuts writes "MSNBC has an article charging that EBay's tough talk on fraud is just that. Talk." To a certain extent, I can understand the problem of having hundreds of thousands of auctions, and not being able to adequately police them - but ignoring fraud, when you have a policy stating otherwise is a Bad Thing.
I got nailed by a fraud auction (guy was selling items he didn't have in stock. Promised next day delivery...that was 3 months ago.)
Neither my CC company, nor PayPal (now owned by eBay) or eBay were overly interested in dealing with this. Yeah, they suspended his account, but because he didn't pay eBay, not because he ripped me (and hundreds of others as well) off.
I'm still in contact with the jerk, and I will have justice done, either by the proper authorities or.....
So rise up, all ye lost ones, as one, we'll claw the clouds.
These guys have a superb rating on ResellerRating , so why deal with some amateur / potential crook at Ebay?
Help fight continental drift.
This article is actually part of a series on online auctions. Here they are:
Part 1- The above linked story
Part 2- Cautionary tales of two auctions
Part 3- Auction fraud on the rise, some say
Part 4- Confessions of a scam artist
Part 5- Auction scam hits plasma TV buyers
Part 6- Auction fraud victims fight back
Part 7- eBay vs. the fraud police
Part 8- 'Deadbeat bidders' dog eBay sellers
Part 9- Fake escrow sites lure auction users
Who is John Galt?
As if things are bad enough under the surface, eBay just finished its business absorption of PayPal. PayPal has it's own fraudulent problems, especially with credit card fraud. Check out PayPal warning. The stories on this website scare me because I use PayPal regularly but now I tend to withdraw all but $1.35 from my account just to be safe.
Did you even read the articles? The main thrust is that eBay is not doing what they can do (like disabling accounts) even when there is strong evidence of fraud. eBay controls the cash flow to themselves from power sellers--again, read the articles.
I live ze unknown. I love ze unknown. I am ze unknown.
Strangely, Microsoft gets their software taken down from illegal eBay auctions. Maybe you need to find yourself a good lawyer.
Read the articles. eBay does have the power to do something about bad sellers when evidence is presented to them. They are allegedly not always doing what they should when those bad sellers are also power sellers. You did read the articles, didn't you?
I live ze unknown. I love ze unknown. I am ze unknown.
Egg Troll never spends a lot of cash on anything on eBay. Instead we prefer to buy locally. Of course, not everyone is as blessed as Egg Troll to live in a large city.
So if you live in Peanutville, GA and need to buy something expensive, Egg Troll highly suggests you use eBay's escrow service: The seller doesn't get paid until you get the item. Egg Troll reminds you that escrow isn't perfect but its a lot better than nothing!
C - A language that combines the speed of assembly with the ease of use of assembly.
Please list three substantitive things that could have been done to get your (friends) money back
1. Release full information of the seller including address, phone and full name of person on the credit card (with billing address) who opened the account.
2. Put a hold on the credit card and turn information over to a collection agency who can perform a skip-trace.
3. Notify local and federal authorities of the possibilty of a case of Felony Fraud. Also provide information to bidders on who to contact specifically to follow up on the case.
None of these will get the money back right away (or maybe at all), but it will put the crook is some serious hot water.
Should eBay eat that and give you money they never had?
Umm, yes? Don't they (claim) to have an insurance policy that covers things like this? Sure, there is a $250 limit, but it is something. You also need to submit the claim in writing within 90 days.
Viv
Gmail invites for ip
In a feature last week about eBay, the Raleigh News & Observer quoted Kevin Purseglove, identified as senior director of communciations for eBay, as saying, quoting the paper, "eBay's policy is to let the buyer and seller sort out any differences among themselves. According o Purseglove, "Ebay will never evaluate the merchandise, we never receive it, we never review it, we don't ship it, we don't vouch for it."
Ebay apparently will refer you to an independent dispute resolution service if you wish.
In other words, caveat emptor.
-- Slashdot: When Public Access TV Says "No"
Ebay is a vendor, just like any other store...
No, they're a service company and they make it quite clear that the sales are not under their control. They simply put interested buyers in communication with corresponding sellers. Unfortunately, because eBay makes money from the sellers there is no real incentive for them to protect buyers. However, the vast majority of scams are pulled on greedy people who are trying to get something for nothing. As long as those people exist (and they're willing to accept the business model) eBay will have no incentive to change.
Their rating system isn't perfect, but it's decent. I've sold some stuff on Ebay and bought a couple things. I got screwed once by a seller, but I've been screwed by brick-and-mortar places, too. Such is life.
An escrow agent would have done absolutely nothing to stop the four cases of fraud cited in the article. Three of the cases were "phantom" bidding, where the seller used an alter-ego to drive the prices up (one even admitted to it, saying how ashamed he was, and how he only did it to avoid taking a huge loss on the item). In those cases, the buyers knowingly offered a certain price for some goods, and got the goods they expected. The problem was that they spent $200 - $500 more than they had to because the phantom bids drove the price up. These transactions would have occurred with or without an escrow service (in fact, since some of the items were worth thousands of dollars, it is quite likely an escrow service actually was employed). The fourth case was a stamp collection ring that was buying stamps on e-bay, altering them to make them appear to be in a better condition or appear to be different, more valuable stamps, and then selling them for a huge profit (with something approximating a 10:1 return). The buyers all thought they were getting what they paid for, so, again, an escrow service would not have helped any. An stamp collectors' organization called SCADS discovered the fraud and notified E-bay, which did not so much as suspend the ring leaders' accounts. When SCADS saw the abuse continue, they flooded the E-bay stamp collection message board with warnings against these auctions. In response, e-bay closed the message board. They then started sending e-mails of warning to those who were bidding on the stamps. In response, E-bay suspended their (i.e., the SCADS members') accounts, citing auction interference. The implication was that E-bay was protecting the stamp fraud ring because it was a profit-generating Power Seller, while lashing out against those who tried to warn potential suspects. To support this claim, MSNBC interviewed "Ron," who claims to have worked for the E-bay fraud department. He says he discovered a Power Seller who was phantom bidding and shut down his response. He got a call from higher up telling him not to do that again.
The apparent conclusion is that if you don't want to get ripped off, an escrow agent is insufficient. If you don't want to get ripped off, just don't use E-bay.
Today's Sesame Street was brought to you by the number e.
I know I'm losing over $1000.00 per month because for six straight months before the pirated version of the class I was selling became available on ebay; I sold over $1000.00 per month. Sales decreased in direct proportion to the number of copied versions posted on ebay.
I had a perfect example of this.
A couple weeks ago I bought an older HP printer of eBay, the seller didn't return my calls or emails, after I sent him the money, and was doing the same for a couple other people who had bought products from him. Well I filed a fraud complaint with PayPal, and they put the money on hold along with his PayPal account. This got the guys attention, so he called me, saying he would send the item only if I dropped the compaint, I told him I would only drop the compaint once I saw the item. In communicating with the guy I found he had at least a couple other eBay id's he was doing the same with (fake auctions), so I tried to contact eBay to let them know. I was refered to some consumer groups and webpages and such, I had a list of the ID's the guys was using and some background, statements from other people who were defrauded, and the guys location (or at least the one the number went back to that I was called on), along with the various aliases the guy was using. Just boggles my mind that they would ignore this.
Actually, when I go for an occasionally Ebay auction, I often bid with "odd" values -- as the items I order tend to priced on the low-end, a bid of $9.13 would beat someone elses bid of $9, and if they don't check the auction again, I win. This kind of offset bidding doesn't necessarily mean "shill".
You can still get burned by fake escrow sites.
Read this article on msnbc.
Fake escrow sites lure auction users.
Watch out. c2it says that your transaction "may" be considered a cash advance by your credit card company.
I did a $16.49 payment through them, crossing my fingers and hoping that caveat didn't apply to my credit card... Next thing I know it's listed on my credit card statement as a $16.49 cash advance at the corresponding higher interest rate, with a $15 cash advance fee piled on top of it. When I called to complain, my soon-to-be-ex-credit-card-company (Direct Merchants Bank) told me that since Citibank is a financial institution, this is considered a cash advance, and no, they wouldn't waive the fee.
If you're going to use c2it, check with your credit card's customer service first.
If you want to avoid fraud, then ask the seller for a home phone number that you can call and verify. Once you have this and have verified it, then you can track them down easily. You can forge a lot of things, but it's pretty hard to forge your address with the phone company. Usually a fraudulent transaction person will not be willing to verify a phone number with you. Also, be sure and make sure you get the city and state where he is located and call national information and verify it, to make sure he's not giving you a prepaid cell phone or pay phone. The extra 75 cents on your phone bill is good insurance.
Someone very close to me works for eBay on the fraud investigations team. He says that "power sellers" who make over some $ amount per month for eBay... "will be warned and warned but nothing ever really gets done."
Just like so many profit models, they won't mess with the source of cash, the sellers on eBay.
Sure they do. But they deliberately make it hard to find. But other people have found them and posted them for all to see.
Some tips I wrote up for someone else who got ripped off on ebay -- this applies mainly to computer hardware, but the principles can be adapted to any type of merchandise.
I've spent a LOT of time digging around for hardware (and other stuff) on Ebay, following various auctions and dealers, and have read a lot in and asked around in many of the user forums there, and have reached several conclusions
about sellers:
ALWAYS read ALL of a seller's NEGATIVE feedback before bidding. (If you use ebay a lot, you may want to subscribe to http://www.vrane.com's feedback checker service.) Good vendors won't have more than 0.15% negative feedback. More than 0.3% negative feedback is a redflag; more than 1.0% is usually a bad dealer or a con artist.
Positive feedback numbers and content CAN be rigged via the "penny auctions" loophole, so positive feedback in itself is fairly useless.
ALWAYS read ALL of the "NEGATIVE FEEDBACK LEFT FOR OTHERS" *by* any seller you intend to deal with. How they respond to their own bad deals is a *VERY* good indicator of how they'll be to work with in the event that what they send you is defective or is not as represented.
Sellers who use *L00K* and/or bogus phrases in their item titles (just WTF is "emulator friendly" anyway??!) are the ebay equivalent of spammers. I no longer even view items with such titles.
ALWAYS check regular online vendor outlets, Pricewatch, etc, first. Typically, used computer hardware sold on Ebay winds up going for 150% of the new retail price, just because most people have no clue what components really sell for. (I've seen used HDs go for 300% of retail, and used memory going for TEN TIMES the local new price!!)
Sellers who start every auction with "$1.00" or "$0.01" prices are more likely to be cons than those who start with something realistic. People who sell hardware *regularly* on ebay are MORE likely to be cons than are people who only sell hardware here occasionally.
ALWAYS email the seller prior to bidding, and ask some question about the item, even if you already know the answer. The tone of the response you get can tell you plenty about how they'll be to deal with. If you get NO response, "go look it up yourself", or a CANNED response, or if they dodge any of your questions, DON'T BID.
If they take ONLY cash or money orders for computer hardware, DON'T BID.
When in doubt for ANY reason, DON'T BID.
BTW for categories other than hardware, the above all apply except that there are good sellers of other stuff who do it all the time.
(This material is public domain. It's already been posted in the ebay discussion forums, where several of the GOOD hardware dealers came out of the woodwork, and applauded the concepts.)
~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?