Slashdot Mirror
Looking For Intelligence
Calgacus writes "We've all read stories about extra-solar planets being found by gravitational wobbles. The Scotsman has a story here about a planet in the Fomalhaut system being discovered because of its wake through a dust cloud. It's further out than other recently discovered planets and astronomers are saying it means there's an odds-on chance of intelligent life being out there. If only there was more on Earth..."
This may be a stupid question, but how can they say there's a likely chance, when they haven't actually proved there's any life anywhere off-earth yet? Is this more astronomers trying to fund their projects again by mentioning the L-word?
I think it does make sense because it's more evidence that there are planets in other star systems in great abundance. It shows that there are possibly other solar systems similar to our own, which also contains large gas giants. The Earth wouldn't be detectable either with current technology at that range, but Jupiter might be. Basically this discovery provides evidence that our own solar system is not completely unique in its very existence; you have to have planets to have life (as far as we know). So while this isn't direct evidence of life, it is another piece of evidence to support the hypothesis that there are other solar systems like our own that may contain life.
So, if this planet is located in a comet-dust-other-space-junk belt/disk then you can imagine the devastation that planet must endure every day! We saw what happened to Jupiter when the Shoemaker-Levy comet bombarded the planet, in the system around this newly discovered planet this would most likely be a daily event, so to say that the chance of life is low is like saying that living through having an h-bomb inserted in your anus and detonated is low.
One of the large problems in the search for extraterrestrial intelligence is the preconception that any "intelligent lifeforms" would conform to the human concept of what qualifies:
.5 or 3.5 times the size of humans, and life in subterranean caves and achieved energy/sustainence from lava-flows or something similar as opposed to a solar source.
a) Life
b) Intelligence
he said there was little chance of finding life on the planet because it was under constant bombardment from a surrounding belt of comets.
In the case of (a), for the most-part we are looking for carbon-based lifeforms that function in a similar way to human beings. This isn't to say that were looking for a bipedal species with human characteristics, but that we ignore other possiblities. There could be lifeforms that are not carbon-based, as is life on earth. Indeed, a planet that is completely inhospitable to earthly life may provide what another race/species needs to exist, but is overlooked due to the fact that "we" couldn't live on it.
If that is the case, then why shouldn't there be planetary systems like our own that contain Earth-like planets?
In the case of (b), we qualify intelligence as matching a particular set of humanistic functions. Among these would be the ability to manufacture tools, buildings, monuments, etc that are recognisable to us as such.
There's no reason why (possible) life on other planets should conform to these classifications. Indeed, there could be lifeforms that are not x-pedal (have feet, etc) in nature, are
Outworldly life is greatly unknown. There's nothing to say that such life would be in any way similar to our own, and to us may resemble a rock more than a human being.
We're all limited by our own sense of being - phorm
I get anoyed by people talking about the probability of intelligent life on other planets. Frank Drake's 1961 equation, is the most famous example.
We have a sample group of 1 so far. You can't predict anything from a sample of 1. Its basic math.
As long as they don't visit the US
That's a funny crack at the US, but it's simply not true. The US holds more Nobel Prizes for sciences than any other country. The secondary school test scores could use some improvement, but University-level education is considered one of the highest in the world.
On the other hand, if your crack was some sort of political snipe at the US, then fine-- but it's funny how most people are really trying hard to get to the US.
davejenkins.com |
Isn't it more likely that they would be fantasically interested in us given the apparent dirth of intelligent life in the universe?
This whole "evil" alien thing is ridiculous. To make an analogy- imagine you are an explorer and scientist in a vast sandy desert. You have traveled thousands of miles on foot only to stumble on a TINY oasis. In that oasis is a fantastic looking insect that you are the first to discover in the universe. Would you smash it and move on? or study it and attempt to disturb it as little as possible?
People forget the any alien species sufficently advanced to contact us will have implicitly passed the test of its adolesence. What is the test of adolesence? It occurs when a species technology is sufficently advanced that it can easily destroy itself and the millions of years of evolutionary and cultural development it took to reach the test. Humans began there adolesence with the development of the atomic bomb (more so with fusion based bombs) and probably won't emerge from that adolesence for generations to come.
Interstellar travel and communication is a level of technolgy that is reached after adolesence (atleast the way we understand the universe). First you split the atom then you develop faster than light communication, etc. This is an assumption based on one data point (ourselves) but seems reasonable. How could an alien species exit the gravity well of its own solar system without understanding the process that fuels that star, ie fusion.
Therefore, any alien contact will be a member of a self selected group from the universe of intelligent alien beings that have existed in the universe - the ones that did not destroy themselves.
This post is already getting kind of long be the other thing we know about aliens willing to contact us is that implicitly they want to conact other beings in the universe. Once agin implicitly they are explorers and scientists with respect for other beings.
The last point I'd like to make is that aliens aren't going to mine the earth for its resources or enslave the human race. That is the dumbest idea I have ever heard. Why would an alien species come all this way for matter that is spread all over the universe? Why would they need it anyhow? They will have fusion reactors that can make any element. Their ship will use anti-matter or something we haven't dreamed of yet. Why do they need slaves? Won't they have robots 100 times smarter than humans to do everything?
Aliens that can contact us MUST be peaceful. It would be disruptive but not violent. These aliens would likely have practice making contact. Read some Carl Sagan books and turn off the 50s B movies please!
That's a funny crack at the US, but it's simply not true. The US holds more Nobel Prizes for sciences than any other country. The secondary school test scores could use some improvement, but University-level education is considered one of the highest in the world.
When you have 250 million people, you are bound to spit out a few intellegent deviants.
But have you been driving or grocery shopping lately? Have you seen the news? Do you ever wonder where News of the Wierd and the Darwin Awards get their material?
We *are* a nation of idiots. We've got some smart people here, but with so many carbon lifeforms bumping around this continent thats bound to happen.
Do you have Linux and a DotPal? Click here now!
I think Einstein actually said, that given a fair race, light would always win. So theoretically, wormholes and warp drive is possible, because we would be making it an unfair race by taking a shortcut.
Out of Cheese Error:
Please reboot universe
Last I checked a very small percentage of americans ever graduated from collage (under 20% I think).
Most grad schools are full of foreigners.
If you want to measure the intelligence of the US public don't look at school.
War is necrophilia.
You are assuming that since we are becoming more technologically advanced, we also are becoming more morally advanced. I don't see that in history. We are not any less likely to kill one another than before. We just have more effective weapons.
So if an Alien species finds earth, that explorer and scientist crew might see money to be made by exploiting us.
Er, wormholes aren't a SF solutions. Look up "Einstein-Rosen Bridge". The problem with such a bridge is that matter won't survive the trip.
Digging deeper into the hat of theoretical physics, we have a possible solution. What needs to be done is to thread the wormhole with something that sounds a lot like antigravity. This sounds like a SF solution, but there is no theoretical reason why a negative gravitational force shouldn't exist. Its a mathematically viable solution.
OTOH, this could be a pretty expensive solution. First you need to find or create a bridge and then stabilize it. If your race has perfected suspended animation, it might be the cheaper way to go from one system to another. Or maybe there's some other reason.
Its flawed reasoning to think "There's no ETs visiting us, thus FTL travel is impossible." Maybe we're living in the cosmic equivalent of a natural preserve. Maybe intelligence evolves beyond the need for physical bodies. Maybe there are intersteller laws against messing with the locals. Maybe hydrogen based life is the norm. Or life that can live in a vacuum. Or maybe we've just been overlooked.
Just my $.02