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Mac OS X to Get Journaling FS
overunderunderdone writes "According to eWeek, Apple Computer is planning to introduce a new journaling file system code-named 'Elvis' with the 10.2.2 release. Supposedly it will run on top of HFS+ and will be turned off by default. Though it will cost you 10% to 15% performance penalty the article says it is more extensive than NTFS and is on par with BeOS's 64-bit journaling file system. Not surprising since it is being developed by the same person - Dominic Giampaolo." I've been super impressed by OS X having used it as my primary laptop for the last couple weeks. It really is a great unix box- and this is one of the important missing puzzle pieces.
Though it will cost you 10% to 15% performance penalty
This refers to hard disk access time penalties, not an overall 10-15% reduction in the performance of your computer. You wouldn't notice the difference.
A beautiful interface with great professional products available (photoshop, office, etc.) while keeping the ability to run nix software.
At least this shows Apple's serious with courting the tech-savvy audience. Before, the reason to go with Apple was out of preference for the UI... and that was it. OS9 was ungainly and unstable. With OSX there're now true geeky reasons to want a Mac. No more being ashamed of coveting the rainbow apple! I want protected memory/journalling fs/unix multiuser/process stability/gnu tools/etc ... and an interface that looks like i can eat it for dessert!
I predict that it will become faster with time.
Just looking at how OS X itself has progressed in speed from Public Beta (slug with brick tied to it), to 10.0 (slug), to 10.1 (average lazy human), to 10.2 (average lazy human drinking strong coffee), I expect that by 10.3 this technology will not give nearly such a performance hit.
And heck. Don't like the speed hit? Turn it off.
But what do I know. I'm just looking for anonymous gay sex.
Although I will say that I've only had it happen once and it was pretty much my fault (and it wasn't in OS X, either.). More than I can say for FAT16/FAT32.
SIGFEH
The critical differences for me are that Apple stuff Just Works, Really Really Well, OS X is a Unix, and Apple seems to be philosophically opposed to Digital Rights Restrictions.
Whether or not they'd be like this if they were in a monopoly position is up to debate, but Apple is currently a far less evil company than Microsoft. Instead of putting roadblocks up for me, the Mac makes most things I want to do far easier.
As for why Journaling matters, I recomend going to Google and asking it for the tutorial on ext3. The tutorial has links to even more depth on the issue. As a quick overview, when you edit files in most applications, the process of saving involves two steps, write data to disk, update whatever form of table is in use on the disk with what updates have been made. For example, a file now uses sectors 5200,5201, and 5209 rather than just 5200 and 5201 as it was originally written.
If the power goes out between when the data was written, and when the tables were updated, the data is effectively lost, as the system will only know about the fact that data was written to 5200 and 5201.
Journaling has several implementations, however one of the most common is to log what data is being written to the hard disk, then when all the tables are updated, flushing that information out of the journal.
If the power fails, the system opens the journal file, and starts the process of writing the data in the journal file to the hard disk again.
Why might this be worth a 10-15%? This will be different for different users, but a fairly simple (if contrived) example is if you are running a commercial web site. If I decide to purchase 1000 units of roduct XXZ from your web site, without knowing that a thunder storm is moving through your community, I place my order, get a confirmation number back, and think all is well. Unbeknownst to me, your web server dies after generating the confirmation, while writing the record to the hard disk.
If my purchase is important to your business, say for example the money has been handled as part of the confirmation, and I would not be happy about you not shipping the product I paid for, you might think it worth a 10-15% performance penalty to insure that my purchase gets recorded properly when your power comes back up.
At the same time, if you spend your time on the computer reading slashdot, playing Everquest, and crunching DES keys, perhaps journaling isn't worth the 10-15% hit.
I may be wrong here as well, but I believe the 10-15% hit being reported is for disk intensive transactions, not for processor performance.
Then again, I could be wrong.
-Rusty
You never know...
I don't think beige boxes are the target market for this. I'm imagining this running on a RAID 5 setup with Xraid later this year. I wouldn't use this on just one little drive at home...
As for disabling it, read the article. It's not even on until you get into Terminal and turn it on.
Giving up my change to use my 2 remaining mod points in this
thread by posting...
> If it takes a 10-15% performace hit that is significant on
> older hardware.
That explains why it's switched off by default, I expect. Some
people in some situations will be glad to take a 15% performance
hit for the benefits of journaling, _if_ the journaling is of the
level of quality that is claimed (i.e., as good as in BFS). The
article says (at the end) that Apple wouldn't comment, so they
may still be weighing that, as well as the performance issue.
IMO, it's good for them to give people the option. If nobody
turns it on, there's no real downside. If some people _do_ see
fit to turn it on, presumably that's because they value it.
Cut that out, or I will ship you to Norilsk in a box.
He already did. Looks like he likes it, for the most part.
The kjournald process is flushing the journal. This doesn't mean (AFAIK) that your filesystem is only up-to-date as of the 5s interval that kjournald last ran. When the system reboots without unmounting properly, it replays the journal to get it as up-to-date as possible (up to the last transaction that was fully written to the journal). The point of flushing the journal every 5s is to limit the size of the journal and therefore the time it takes to replay it on reboot. And quick reboots are the point of journalling.
Don't know what moron modded you flamebait but...
On top of being able to run *most* of the software that Linux will run, OS X also gives you Photoshop, M$ Office and other commercial apps, a bunch of non commercial apps (www.macosxapps.com, most of the old classic apps and Virtual PC which will get just about any Windows app other than games working on the mac.
If there is some linux program that you just can't live without that wont run under OS X, you also have the option to install Linux on your laptop as well.
T Money
World Domination with a plastic spoon since 1984
Wow dude, that kicks ass! The worst I've seen is the error where the file size is being reported incorrectly. A file showed up as some 37TB or something. Of course the OS had no idea what to do with the file, and the only way to get rid of it is to format/reinstall.
... errr ... old.
One of the nice things about Macs (old school at least) is that I could just boot from a CD and copy everything on the HDD (minus the bad file) to the server, format the drive, and copy it all back. Good as new
HFS and HFS+ have serious file corruption issues that most people don't ever see because they don't use their computer for more than web serfing and email. When you get into a business environment and really go at it full speed, the file system chokes. It's slow, resource heavy, and prone to file damage. It's a regular occurance on my 20+ PowerMacs to have to boot from a Norton CD and "Disk Doctor" the file system just to get them to boot from their hard drive.
~LoudMusic
No sig for you. YOU GET NO SIG!
Is it possable that they know this. But can't be fucked spending hours on the web looking for good advice and trying to decide who's right, downloading/buying different software to see which on is the best package, discovering that the new video editing card they bought conficts with their motherboard?
This person is a fucking moron because they didn't want possability of having to go through this?
BTW. Saying that someone who isn't good with the internet would also have no clue with video editing, is just plain ignorant and false.
It turns out that what people really want is a non-MS desktop that actually works. Most people over the age of 14 don't give a rat's ass about the ideological aspects at all.
Boobies never hurt anyone. - Sherry Glaser.
Yeah, damn that "lockin nastyness."
Stupid OS X.
Basing there graphics system off such properietary API as *gasp* OpenGL. And having native support for running that un-portable proprietary Java language, whatever the hell that is.
And using that damned open-source Mach microkernel.
And that stupid open-sourced Darwin unix core.
And that acursed POSIX API (still a work in progress).
And CUPS.
And OpenFirmware.
How dare they rely on such proprietary things as firewire and usb for peripherals. And 802.11b for networking. And optional LDAP authentication. And how dare they invent new, cool, peer-to-peer automatic network configuration protocols (Rendevouz) and then open up the spec and source.
They are practically the devil.
And I love how on every point OS X wins. You agreed that it was easier to use, had better hardware integration, and better software. Plus, I think most of us agree that it's really cool tech and is prettier.
And then you say "Linux is free. Nuff said." as if this clinches it and Linux has won despite losing in every category other than price.
So, hard to use, poorly-integrated OSs with bad software-support beat easy to use, well integrated OSs with good software-support as long as they are free?
Damn that apple and their embracing of open standards.
Justin Dubs