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Phoenix 0.3 Is Out
David Tansey writes "The Mozilla-based stripped down browser has now reached binary release 0.3. They are ripping out all the mail and news functions, composer functions, and IRC functions. The point is to work against the 'monolitic' mozilla trunk and make a browser, not a suite. I've noticed that it now uses considerably less memory than Mozilla uses and loads faster. Check it out here."
I haven't tried phoenix on anything less than a dual pIII (1 gig) with a gig of memory so how much more responsive is it? On my systems (the one above and a 2 gig p4 with a gig of memory) mozilla started and runs just as fast as phoenix.
can't sleep slashdot will eat me
Minotaur is being developed as a Phoenix-style replacement for Mozilla Mail and News, except with the same UI as Mozilla. Eventually, Thunderbird will be developed from Minotaur, only with a Phoenix based UI.
Actually its 7.0MB on windows and 9.1MB on Linux.
The size will also be getting smaller as time goes on and they rip out more of the uneeded stuff.
If you wanna get rich, you know that payback is a bitch
Um, freebsd can run linux binaries, so you shouldn't have any trouble with it now..
I managed to replace the slashdot advertisements inside a story with blank space, but removing the top-banner page will also remove all your other slashdot graphics. Maybe phoenix can include a feature that blocks images from a URL containing the text "adlog.pl" ?
Will people please stop bitching about this? If you don't want mail/irc/composer installed then use the net installer and uncheck the boxes. Moz is very componentized, and it will not install them. Don't expect huge reductions in download time or massive increases in speed however - all that stuff is load on demand anyway, so it only slows down your machine when you actually use them.
Just to clarify the confusion with the projects:
Thunderbird is the new name of the Minotaur project. Unlike what some said, they are thus one, and will fill the same function as Phoenix for the mail part.
Eventually we will have two very capable clients, Phoenix for browsing, and Thunderbird for Mail. This will make advocacy easier too, some people complain they cannot run Mozilla on their older Windoze boxen. Well they can run Phoenix and Thunderbird ! I measured Phoenix memory usage compared to Mozilla and Opera (all with about 6-7 tabs open, the same URLs in all three), and Phoenix was really close to Opera, about 10M less than Mozilla.. YMMV of course with different pages etc, but it is slimmer indeed.
life+universe+everything=42
From a webdesigner point of view: *please* use Phoenix or any other Gecko based browser. Opera is a nightmare for webdesigners. Especially when using *gasp* DHTML, which can actually be useful.
The next big Opera release may change this, since it will be a complete rewrite with better DOM support in mind. But as of now, Opera sux in this regard.
It's nice and fast OK, but tried to open a few pages (one at a time) under NT4.0 and look at memory in task manager - it was the same for both Mozilla and Phoenix: 32-34MB. Still not good for our old p-100 w95 machines with 16mb ram.
I'm was pulling down a whoppering 1.0kb/sec from ftp.mozilla.org, thanks to slashdot linking directly to the master server. PLEASE use a mirror, there's a full list of them here. Not all mirrors carry phoenix, and some that do don't have 0.3, but at least this one does (and probably others too).
"Oppression and harassment is a small price to pay to live in the land of the free." -- Montgomery Burns.
Here's a help site dedicated to Phoenix, created by David Tenser. Announced in this thread on MozillaZine, and see also the Phoenix forums.
Got brain?
(mousegestures, prefbar...no uninstall yet)
:).
I'm posting from Phoenix 0.3 now. Check the release notes before posting -- Extension Uninstall is included in this new version. To find it, Tools->Preferences->Themes and Extensions, click on the "Extensions" tab and you can disable or uninstall your extensions quite happily.
Overall it's a great browser, it really shows off what Mozilla can do. I'm recommending it to friends, it can tempt them with all the speed of IE, the features of Mozilla, and the bloat of neither
no, i know what code bloat comes from
I, however, don't see 'code bloat' as being a plausible excuse to not implement a useful feature
I'll probably get called an IE Zealot and modded down for this...
I've ran Phoenix 0.2, and I really tried to like it. Tabbed browsing, pop-up blocker, custimized toolbar, and it doesn't have the bloatedness of Moz. Stable too for a 0.2 release. BUT...
IT DOESN'T RENDER THE PAGES I WANT TO VIEW PROPERLY! I ran into the same problem with Netscape 7 and Moz 1.
Sites that I couldn't load properly in Phoenix:
Airmiles.ca
- Couldn't load the front page.
Hotmail
- Loaded front page but couldn't log in.
IGN Cube
- This goes for all IGN game sites... the articles that are locked for subscribers have an 'i' beside them. This does not show up in Phoenix.
My Employers Self Serve site
- I can log in but the page hangs on the welcome screen.
I only have about 15 sites bookmarked, and the above 4 don't work. Who knows how many other sites are out there.
Maybe I'm doing something wrong, maybe I have to configure something (If so, let me know please!), but the bottom line is that these sites load fine in IE.
I don't want to hear people say "These websites aren't following a standard". Tell me something I don't know.
I want a browser that lets me view the pages I want to see, thankyouverymuch. Until there's an alternative that does this, I'm sticking with IE along with its swiss cheese security.
Looks like the guys behind Phoenix did a good job, but the Galeon interface is still much faster than the Phoenix one.
./configure --enable-graphics --enable-javascript
Take also a look at Links , the fastest -graphics- browser ever made (it runs circles around Opera. No kidding.)
Javascript and graphics need to be enabled before compilation, so download it (less than 4 Mb) then...
#
# make
# make install
Start it in graphics mode (otherwise you'll have a console only lynx clone)
# links -g
And enjoy it.
It still lacks the bells and whistles one can find in other browsers, so there are problems with complex and bloated websites (Java, Flash), in that case I'm happy with Galeon, but I find it perfect for anything else.
While I admit that is often useful, it's not really the purpose of a web browser to also be a file manager. The reason IE does this is so MS can claim its part of the OS. (Correct me if I'm wrong)
Now try it in IE, it's different.
You do realize that many people who don't use IE view this (oft-used) argument as a troll. Mozilla simply can't (and shouldn't) follow in IE's footsteps all of the time. I mean-- for one thing, that would make Mozilla IE's bitch!
Another usability problem is the placement of the Address bar. Why is it at the same layer as the toolbar?
You're right, a bug has been posted about this(172818), and (AFAIK) it is planned for a future release. We all want more screen space.
but of course... nobody cares about Usability issues.
Hey... hey... now, you know that's just not true. Come on, pumpkin, buck up. I care, don't I?
(I'm sorry, but that was such a troll)
And that "Toolbar Customizer" with the drag and drop has bad usability problems.
Really? I found it pleasing and easy to use. Why don't you stop by the Phoenix Forums and share your thoughts on how it can be improved?
Also, the Bookmark Management is very sloppy. They need sidebar management for bookmarks.
Agreed.
--
Posted with Phoenix!
I'm just going to walk through this post point by point because I think you've either completely misunderstood Moz/Phoenix or you just haven't given it a solid try.
I like my browser to mesh with my operating system. Not so far to where the OS doesn't let you uninstall it, but to where it blends in with the look of my OS. I use Windows XP, and Mozilla does not look like XP. Sure the GUI is nice, but it looks odd with my Luna style. In addition, IE meshes with Explorer. So I can easily switch between Explorer and Internet explorer. Try typing "C:\Program Files" in Mozilla/Phoenix. Very different.
Can't speak for Phoenix but in Mozilla if you choose your skin to be Classic all the GUI widgets will be drawn natively in your OS style and colours. Also Typing in 'C:\Program Files' works just fine, not sure what you did to make it not work but it works.
In addition, there are many usability issues. Click on the address bar, while it's highlighted, click, hold and drag towards the left or right. It attempts to drag the entire address, maybe to drag and drop in the bookmarks menu. Now try it in IE, it's different. It will highlight the portion and allow you to edit it etc. That is very annoying in Phoenix/Mozilla.
Don't call something a usability issue when it doesn't work the way you expect it to. As much as its convenient to say that Mozilla is made by a bunch of engineers and geeks so usability is ignored, surprisingly its not. Have a look at this bug to see how much the Mozilla community argued before settling on a solution. Also I tried doing exactly what you said and it works for me. Click once on address bar and full URL is highlighted, click again to edit via keyboard and or highlight.
Another usability problem is the placement of the Address bar. Why is it at the same layer as the toolbar? (Back, Forward buttons). I believe there is a Bug reported in BugZilla about this in Mozilla, but of course... nobody cares about Usability issues.
Once again don't be so quick to judge. Have you even tried to file a bug or put your comments into a bug or reopen a bug? As I said even though the Mozilla community is primarily geeks and engineers its not a community that "doesn't care" about usability. Don't mock it till you've actually tried to make a change happen.
Why can't I have "Selective Text on Right". And that "Toolbar Customizer" with the drag and drop has bad usability problems. It's very confusing to use. And having to "Name" your toolbars?? Err..
I needn't repeat this enough, Phoenix is at iteration 0.3. The developers are very one-to-one with comments and feedback. Did you even attempt to try to talk to them via email or to the Phoenix/Mozilla community newgroups?
Also, the Bookmark Management is very sloppy. They need sidebar management for bookmarks.
Yet again you're just spewing opinion that has no basis in reality. Mozilla has had Sidebar based bookmark management for more builds that I can even remember now. Also don't say something as if its fact. In my opinion IE's bookmark system...well its not really much of a system because it uses the windows file system to just throw a bunch of files and folders in a another folder...is pretty damn sloppy. Furthermore Mozilla's "sloppy" bookmark system has features that let you keyword certain bookmarks so for example i can go to my Address bar and type in 'g something i am searching for' and have that taken straight to Google.
You've based Mozilla wholeheartedly while giving it at best a half assed chance. Also while you were so quick to bash this "non-usability caring" community did you once stop to think that when you have a problem with IE you've got no where to go other than the crash reporting now featured in XP? Atleast with Mozilla you can directly look into the guts of the program and see exactly why things work the way the work.
Don't give up too quickly my friend, Mozilla is a good friend. Like a pet 60' foot monster on your own leash eating HTML faster than any blue 'e' even could!
"Unlike most of you, I am not a nut." - Homer J. Simpson
Clue me please.
Bazman
(actually I see about six of each of those but I assume thats threads-as-processes for you)
No source? I wanted to compile it for OSX, but I can't seem to find any sourcee.
As for Mozilla, blame Netscape, their graphic designers wanted it that way, which is why, despite having been patched, it hasn't made its way into the Moz trunk. That particular bug doesn't even have an owner right now!! Selective Text on Right is actually very bad for usability, but if you want it, file a bug and see what the Phoenix developers say.
As for the toolbar customizer, how do you figure that it has usability problems? It works the same as almost any other toolbar customizer; you move what you want onto the toolbar! The whole point of the Phoenix customization is to have the customizing happen LIVE, as opposed to making a queued list, and then applying your settings. This is a GOOD usability practice.
Lastly, you name a toolbar when you create a new one so that you can turn the toolbar on and off! The new toolbar appears by name in the Toolbar list. I personally create a new bar called "Address Bar", then drag the address text field onto it. Go to View, then Toolbars, and there it is! Now you can create toolbars and turn them off and on as you wish. Again, this is GOOD UI practice. They have it. You can add, delete, rename, move, etc., your bookmarks from the Boomark sidebar. Again, have you really used Phoenix, as in for more than 30 seconds? I really don't think you have. Almost all of your "complaints" are false.
For mail purposes, there is the Thunderbird (formerly known as Minotaur) project. According to mozilla.org, it is expected around the time of Phoenix 0.5.
As a Mozilla Mail user (on Windows), I personally can't wait to give it a try.
www.timcoleman.com is a total waste of your time. Never go there.
Mozilla is a huge memory pig. When I unload it I typicaly see anywhere from 40M - 120M of my memory being returned to the system. AFAIK, Mozilla has some serious memory leaks or has the absolutely worse possible cache implementation anyone could create. If the problem isn't either of those two, Mozilla has some serious core problems.
Anything that can be done to address the memory foot print is a HUGE win for Mozilla.
Read the Phoenix documentation -- the whole goal is to produce a modular Mozilla with a rationally designed user interface.
The thing's built around the concept of plugins.
-Billy
Actually the Mac OS X version does force you to install all of the programs.
"Reality is just a convenient measure of complexity" -Alvy Ray Smith
"So is there no way of finding out how much is shared? Its useful, because my concern is a web browser for a multi-user machine, and I dont want the memory to run out if 10 people are running mozilla.."
/usr/bin/free, Gkrellm (with memory monitor) or the system monitor applets for the GNOME or KDE panel.
Memory is shared between all 10 Mozilla sessions.
The best way to watch your memory is to use