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ACLU Campaign Challenges Patriot Act

Nept sent in a pointer to this story about the ACLU starting a media campaign challenging the PATRIOT Act. Good to hear.

13 of 493 comments (clear)

  1. They've been busy. by XorNand · · Score: 5, Informative


    The ACLU is also challenging the involvement of the US military in the DC sniper case, as reported by CNN. The "depend the Constitution" ad campaign mentioned is $3.5M large, which includes a million dollars worth of TV ads in 10 markets

    Whoot! Keep it up guys!

    --
    Entrepreneur : (noun), French for "unemployed"
    1. Re:They've been busy. by AntiNorm · · Score: 5, Informative

      Seems strange that they want to prevent the people who know how to stop snipers from helping. As long as the assistance is purely technical, I have no problem with it. Now if the military was setting up roadblocks and detaining citizenz, it'd be another matter.

      There's a reason why they are preventing these military personnel from helping, and a good one too: the Posse Comitatus act. Basically, it prevents military personnel from doing most civilian law enforcement tasks except when authorized by Congress. Congress would essentially have to declare martial law in order for these people to be able to help out, and as scary as it may be, the current situation there does not warrant martial law.

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    2. Re:They've been busy. by mesocyclone · · Score: 4, Informative

      Too bad you didn't read the very article you referenced. It directly refutes your argument in this case.

      Here is the relevant portion:

      Posse Comitatus clarifications emphasize supportive and technical assistance (e.g., use of facilities, vessels, aircraft, intelligence, tech aid, surveillance, etc.) while generally prohibiting direct participation of DoD personnel in law enforcement (e.g., search, seizure, and arrests).

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      The only good weather is bad weather.

    3. Re:They've been busy. by mskfisher · · Score: 5, Informative

      they did question a recently-discharged Marine who'd had sniper training...

      but keep in mind that the shots that have been made so far aren't terribly difficult - it doesn't require formalized training. i'd say that most anyone could learn to hit a man-sized target at 100-150 yards with a few hours' practice.
      this most recent shooting was a head shot, sure - but from 30-40 yards. that's practically point-blank, when dealing with a scoped weapon.
      sure, there are techniques that are most easily picked up through directed training... but most people give this guy too much credit.
      if the shots were 500+ yards on a windy day, then i'd start to assume the guy had some serious training under his belt.
      urban sniping isn't that difficult. we're fortunate that not many people have undertaken it thus far.

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      0x0D 0x0A
  2. Uppercase? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

    Since the name is an acronym for "Uniting and Strengthening America by Providing Appropriate Tools Required to Intercept and Obstruct Terrorism", it should be called the USAPATRIOT act.

    All uppercase, no space (because "U SAP AT RIOT" is just as good a decomposition).

  3. Re:Yes! by ztc · · Score: 5, Informative

    That quote is taken a bit out of context. Depending on how you read into it, he may actually be saying that he believes its his job to ensure freedoms such as free speech endure (which the ACLU is exercising.)

    The whole quote is:

    "I'm glad I live in a country where the ACLU can criticize me and vigorously debate the issues," Ashcroft says. "I consider it my job as attorney general to make sure that this and all our freedoms endure."
  4. Rep.'s against the (un)Patriot Act by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    Props to these representatives for voting against the Patriot Act.

  5. Freedom... cherish it PSAs by TheSHAD0W · · Score: 3, Informative

    The "Campaign for Freedom" public service announcements were produced by the Ad Council; you can view the PSAs online at http://www.adcouncil.org/campaigns/campaign_for_fr eedom/.

  6. another story at wired by Wild+Bill+Hickock · · Score: 3, Informative

    wired is also reporting the same story. click here to read it.

  7. Re:Please explain by Wyatt+Earp · · Score: 3, Informative

    If you find a shell casing, often it will tell you nothing other than the caliber.

    AKs use a shorty 7.62 or 5.45 caliber round, there are about 45-70 million AKs world wide, so if you find that casing, you are still dealing with a haystack. Some American makers are switching to the AKs 7.62 beacuse the rounds are cheap.

    ARs typically use a 5.56, as do other NATO standard battle rifles and Isreali made rifles. I'm going to ballpark a number here and say there are 15-35 million rifles out there firing a 5.56.

    The shooter in the DC area is using either a 5.56 or a 5.45 caliber rifle, I've heard both on the news and the police have shown both an AR and an AK on the news as the weapon being used.

    Now, a bullet will get you more information, but with the sheer numbers of weapons out there in the US-Canada-Mexico pushing the 300-400 million range, even if you get a bullet that you can run ballistics on chances are high than they won't be using something in your Database.

    An example, I have a 54 year old Remington Model 8 in .300 Savage which fires great, it's not going to be in a Database since all the databases proposed are for licenced gun sales and new weapons.

    As for the arguement that cars are licenced but guns aren't, well cars aren't meantioned in the Constitution now are they? If the 2nd Amendment is going to be infringed on, then why shouldn't we licence printing presses or computers? Both are capable of being used against the common good of the people.

  8. Re:gun ownership privacy by srmalloy · · Score: 5, Informative
    So, where exactly in the second amendment does it say that "people could have armed militias?" Where does it say that the militia is there to "check" the government? The oh so short second amendment reads as follows.
    A well regulated Militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed. - Ammendment II of the Constitution

    Notice the "well regulated" part? Also, notice that "Arms" is a proper noun? That means that WE can decide what regulations to place upon gun ownership and militias and WE can decide what the definition of "Arms" is. Do fully-automatic machine guns and rocket-launchers count as "Arms?" They most certainly are, but them being prohibited doesn't counter the 2nd Am. because "Arms" is defined by the individual States and by Congress itself.

    Unfortunately for your premise, you are misinterpreting the term 'regulate' as 'controlled, restricted, or governed by law or rule'. The Random House College Dictionary (1980) gives four definitions for the word "regulate," which were all in use during the Colonial period (Oxford English Dictionary, 2nd Edition, 1989):
    1. To control or direct by a rule, principle, method, etc.
    2. To adjust to some standard or requirement as for amount, degree, etc.
    3. To adjust so as to ensure accuracy of operation.
    4. To put in good order.

    The first definition, to control by law in this case, was already provided for in the Constitution. It would have been unnecessary to repeat the need for that kind of regulation. For reference, here is the passage from Article I, Section 8 of the Constitution, granting the federal government the power to regulate the militia:
    To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the militia, and for governing such part of them as may be employed in the service of the United States, reserving to the states respectively, the appointment of the officers, and the authority of training the militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

    The third definition is also inappropriate, because regulation for accuracy or function is somethiing that is done to the arms, not the militia.
    Alexander Hamilton, in the Federalist Paper No. 29, described clearly what a well-regulated militia entailed:
    The project of disciplining all the militia of the United States is as futile as it would be injurious if it were capable of being carried into execution. A tolerable expertness in military movements is a business that requires time and practice. It is not a day, nor a week nor even a month, that will suffice for the attainment of it. To oblige the great body of the yeomanry and of the other classes of the citizens to be under arms for the purpose of going through military exercises and evolutions, as often as might be necessary to acquire the degree of perfection which would entitle them to the character of a well regulated militia, would be a real grievance to the people and a serious public inconvenience and loss.

    The Oxford English Dictionary, 2nd Edition, (1989) defines regulated in 1690 to have meant "properly disciplined" when describing soldiers:
    [obsolete sense]
    b. Of troops: Properly disciplined. Obs. rare-1.
    1690 Lond. Gaz. No. 2568/3 We hear likewise that the French are in a great Allarm in Dauphine and Bresse, not having at present 1500 Men of regulated Troops on that side.

    The text itself also suggests the fourth definition ("to put in good order"). Considering the adjective "well" and the context of the militia clause, which is more likely to ensure the security of a free state, a militia governed by numerous laws (or just the right amount of laws [depending on the meaning of "well"] ) or a well-disciplined and trained militia?
  9. Re:Other "questionable" acts by Animats · · Score: 3, Informative
    I guess that means Maher Arar's next class in advanced modem design will be cancelled.

    He's a modem designer, or was before he was illegally deported.

  10. Re:Who Is The Institute For Justice? by neocon · · Score: 3, Informative

    Remarkably little content given the length of your post. You do manage, however, to:

    • Roll out the usual scare words like `far to the right' (used, laughably enough, to describe the Heritage Foundation, which is about as mainstream a conservative group as there is)
    • Attempt to smear the Olin Foundations philanthropy by pointing out that Mr. Olin made his money in explosives manufacturing -- I suppose you must be terribly opposed to the Nobel Prize, then, eh?
    • Attempt to smear the IJ's record by micharacterizing their position on a number of issues
    • Question the support for school vouchers in the minority community, despite the fact that it is poor inner city communities who are most hurt by having their children trapped in failing schools -- one reason that groups like the Black Alliance for Educational Opportunity are some of the firmest supporters of School Choice
    • Describe opposition to affirmative action as `racist' -- a dirty smear, and one that fails to explain how it could be racist to oppose race-based preferences.
    So, in short, I'd have to say that your post tells us a lot more about your narrow biases and (amusingly) about how threatened you feel by groups like the IJ which are doing actual work for civil liberties then it tells us about the IJ itself.