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Building a Comprehensive Ballistics Database?
Linuxathome asks: "I'm a resident in the Washington DC-Baltimore Metropolitan area. If you've kept up with the news lately, you've probably have heard about the serial killings. I realize that this question may spark a political debate, but my question pertains to current technology. The gun law debate has been recently re-ignited. And the hot topic of current is in regards to fingerprinting firearms. Gun rights supporters argue that the technology behind fingerprinting is not reliable (see John Dingell). Dingell estimates there are approximately 50 million gun owners in the US (I don't have estimates of how many guns are out there). Is an image database of 50 million spent casings not feasible?" What issues, both technical and political, would there be surrounding the creation (and the current hold up) of such a database?
Barrel markings change over the life of the gun, so how feasible is it with respect to that aspect? I don't think it is at all.
Phil
MD and NY already have ballistics DBs. How they are set up I have no idea. I do know that one legal issue is that only artifacts recovered at crime scenes are kept in that database, not everyone who owns a gun in those states.
Rob Andrews of NJ has proposed a national database of all manufactured guns. It's come up before, and NRA lobbyists have always been successful in knocking it down.
Two issues already brought up by other posters: Yes, criminals will still get guns illegally. Such a system obviously won't protect against that, but it'll root out who's selling guns illegally. And yes, ballistics change over time the more a gun gets used. Modern guns, however, take thousands of rounds before a difference is noticeable, making this argument negligible.
As for technical issues, this looks like a problem similar to the DoJ's Fingerprint database. Basically, this DB, when given a print to search for, returns several possible matches, as perfect matching isn't possible. An investigator then takes those matches and performs a hand check of each to determine if the print he has has been seen before. This means the DoJ's agencies have to keep prints on hard-copy records in filing cabinets.
The major difference is that the DoJ DB doesnt contain every individual's fingerprint, while the proposed ballistics DB would contain the fingerprint of every manufactured gun made after the system goes live. If ballistics are non-deterministic like the DoJ fingerprints, then that means every used round would have to be physically kept somewhere, and it would quickly add up to a lot of space.
Best thing to do is to find out how MD and NY have their systems working.
The One Rule Of Chess You'll Ever Need: Don't play someone who carries a kit in their bookbag.
There is some good in this, as in all databases that are intended to help track/solve criminal cases. As there are records that police and investigators can search to give them a list of all known criminals with an MO (Modus Operendi) of X. They can narrow down the investigation by searching and finding out who is still in jail, who is dead and who has moved elsewhere (doesn't mean they are guilty/innocent, just not a good suspect). A database of all spent cartridges would go along these lines of helping narrow the search. While the barrels may deteriorate over time and use, the rifling patterns of X groves with Y twists will remain the same -- changing the barrel of a 9mm Glock with another barrel will still get you the same X and Ys, just more defined in a new barrel.
.40 cal conversion kit and use it to commit the crime. Reinstall the original 9mm kit and ditch the .40 cal kit. As the kit is not a working firearm, there is not a legal requirement to keep a record of the individual purchasing the kit. Pay cash and there is a dead in trail. When the police come because you are a close match to the person on the video or eyewitness description, you can safely produce you legally owned 9mm and they get a dead end.
Where does the Bad come in? Well, from personal experience, I bought a used hand gun from A&P arms in Virgina years ago. Recently, I had a phone call from a Virginia Beach police officer investigating a robbery and looking for a gun -- the federal registry said that I had the gun (they only had a partial serial, but insisted I was the only gun) and I had not lived in Virgina for over 5 years. Luckily, I was able to provide him the name of the dealer I sold the gun to. Also, luckily, he was a polite individual and knew that the system was giving him information that could not be true, but he had to follow the lead as my serial number was a partial match. If this system is implemented, then it should be used to check used weapons when they are sold/changed ownership. There are many ads in trade papers for weapons, and I would not be against a requirement that a ballistics check be made before I purchased it. This is akin to a background check on potential buyers of guns, and since all a criminal has to do, is pick up the local classifeds/trade magazine -- there is no US law that states that an individual has to perform a background check on someone prior to selling them a personal weapon.
The Ugly? Well, if you check out many guns, they now come with multiple caliber barrels for the same frame. Buy a 9mm over the counter, register it, and have it entered into the ballistic database. Go to a gun show, purchase a
Where this database will come in handy, is all the firearms in police impound. There are numerous weapons that never make it to melt down, and those criminals (and maybe the officer) that has it may not consider changing the identifying items..barrel and firing pin.
Criminals will always have the means to obtain a gun, and as long as I have the right to carry mine, I'm not worried.
The best defense against a tyrranical governement, is a well armed populace.
Sig? What's a Sig?
Once someone has bought a gun off of the street, it is as good as unregistered; and it goes a little something like this:
Now, how many times has that gun changed hands since it was last tracked? Even if the original criminal was caught, who knows where the crime weapon ended up.
I seriously doubt that the framers would have supported this extreme view of the right to privacy.
Read the federalist papers. This exactly the type of privacy they had in mind. Do you know why the first battle of the revolution happened? The british came to confiscate arms and ball ammo.
For me, fingerprinting a firearm is a lot different that fingerprinting a person
For me its not any different. It gives the government a list of who has what guns and makes it that much easier to confiscate them. The idea of the second amendment is to protect me from just such an occurance.
The point is to ask whether the situation would be better if a lot of people in the DC suburbs carried firearms. Unless they are all well trained and not hot-heads...
Yes that is the question and every study thats been done proves that crime rates fall when concealed carry laws are enacted. Yes training is important and I encourage anyone who carries to seek training and to maintain that training. But it is not a requirement. Using a weapon is not difficult. Identify you target assest the danger and engage or flee.
I think everyone is safer with the police chasing the criminals.
The police do not have to duty to protect you! Period!!!
This has been addressed numerous times in court. See this study.
What would/could you do if you saw this guy fire his gun?
How about performing a citizens arrest. With out a gun you are (pardon the pun) out gunned. But with a weapon you could confront and control the suspect.
I know I'd have a lot better odds stopping him with my '88 Crown Vic than a handgun
This is the same view most of the gun control advocates have. Just because you don't trust yourself with a firearm does not mean you can not trust me. And if you can not trust me you should have a gun of your own so that you can control me should I overreact to a situation in which you are involved.
The second ammendment clearly points to the need to regulate guns,
Wrong the 2nd clearly points to the need to well regulate the militia which were all able-bodied adult males who had the right to keep and bear arms as there were no standing armies at the time. Well regulated Militia as in Army Regulation
Sorry ladies it's historical not me. I served in the Army and National Guard with many fine women with whom I would go into combat with.
More on topic, rifle/pistol balistics change with use and are not that hard to change on purpose. A database would not be that helpful.
Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
I would disagree, the right to bear arms was put in place to protect the citizens from the government. Let me say that again, from the government.
As the government weapons increase then the citizens would also need to increase their firepower, for protection from the government.
btw I do not own a gun and I am not a member of NRA.