Visiting the World, as a Geek?

Han Onymous asks: "In nine months my contract as a research assistent at my Alma Mater will come to an end. It will not be renewed, I don't want it to be anyway. But outside the economy is too ill to welcome me. I am young. I am healthy. And I want to see the world before I've got the wife and the kids and the double mortgage. I have no money saved, and I don't plan to save some until then. What can a skillful geek (electrical, electronical and software engineer, speaks three languages fluently) like me do to see the world. Volunteer ? Working for a multinational with exchange programs? Something with no connection at all to the tech world? Please share your experience."

Comments

Peace Corp

[Anonymous Coward]

Join the peace corps.

Re:Peace Corp

[Otisserie]

I taught computer science in Africa in 1981 with the Peace Corps. Probably one of the first volunteers to do it. I had a great time, but every Peace Corps situation is completely different; there's a lot of luck involved. Peace Corps does have a number of things going for it: 1) medical care and a good connection to the US Embassy, if things get messy; 2) a readjustment allowance that I believe is about $225 for every month you spend abroad (this is over and above your living stipend); 3) non-competitive eligibility for civil service jobs if you complete your service; 4) an actual reason to be in the country you're in, you're not just a tourist; 5) student loan deferrment; 6) I found that both employers and grad schools respected Peace Corps service; I'm convinced it helped me get into grad school. Your mileage may vary, but all told I'm very glad I did it.

Re:Peace Corp

[dan_lamb]

Forget the Peace Corps.

Join the Army. I did it, and I loved every minute of it. You should also forget about using your 'tech skills'. Join the Infantry. You'll learn more about life in three years in the infantry than you would in a lifetime in some crappy cubicle or university lab. You might also get a chance to see some beautiful places like Japan, korea, Thailand, or Germany. You might also see some not so beautiful places under less than ideal circumstances. Which story would you rather tell your grand children: '... and our database design was better than everyone elses' or '... and there I was in my fox hole with bombs exploding all around me ...'?

If it's adventure you're looking for, look no further than www.goarmy.com. Freedom isn't free. Anty up and kick in.

Re:Peace Corp

[bugnuts]

If I were modding, I'd mod you up, dan.

But there's one big, nasty assumption you're making when you say Which story would you rather tell your grand children: '... and our database design was better than everyone elses' or '... and there I was in my fox hole with bombs exploding all around me ...'?

The assumption you're making is that you'll live to have grandchildren if you have bombs going off around you. I would say that now might NOT be the time to join the military, unless you honestly want to see action. Most geeks I know don't "take orders" very well, and aren't very keen on shooting at others, unless they're driving a remote-control joystick-driven bomb with cool graphics and lots of 'splosions.

Re:Peace Corp

[Chundra]

That's the spirit. Hey, I just bought an American flag sticker today, but I didn't put it on my bumper. Nah, that's not appropriate for my country, instead I put it smack dab in the middle of the gas cap on my BMW. God Bless America!

Re:Peace Corp

[Dolly_Llama]

Most geeks I know don't "take orders" very well

This is a common excuse for people reticent about joining the military. The obvious response is 1) You take orders regardless of whether they come from a sergeant or your shift manager at the Taco Bell. Live with it. 2) Someone has got to be giving the orders, so if you think you can do better, get yourself some stripes or a commision and try it yourself tough guy. Seriously, the military is only as good as its personnel. It needs smart kids (geeks even) as much as it needs stereotypical grunts. The majority of manpower aren't people shooting, but supporting those who shoot.

Re:Peace Corp

[Ian Bicking]

You take orders regardless of whether they come from a sergeant or your shift manager at the Taco Bell. Live with it.

If your shift manager tells you to do something against your judgement or your ethics, you can always quit. You can't quit the army, and you can't refuse to do what they tell you. The worst things done by humans have always been done under orders.

Personally, I believe I am responsible for what I do, regardless of who tells me to do it. When you volunteer yourself into a coercive situation, you have handed your soul over to another's judgement. Maybe you think the people you take orders from are going to be good caretakers of your will and your soul, but that's one hell of a risk. Do you really know them that well? Do you even know who the hell they are? It's a long chain of command, and in any situation it's hard to know where it ends... do they even tell you where the command comes from? Do they ever tell you why? Are you willing to live blind?

When you spend your time playing games and doing busywork this doesn't much matter. I wouldn't bet on irrelevence anymore, though.

Re:Peace Corp

[Ian Bicking]

Those caught doing unethical or downright criminal acts are held accountable. Think Mi Lai or Nuremburg.

Funny you should mention My Lai. From this article:

The My Lai massacre. On March 16, 1968, US soldiers from the Americal Division slaughtered 347 civilians--primarily old men, women, children, and babies--in the Vietnamese village of My Lai 4 (pronounced, very appropriately, as "me lie"). The grunts also engaged in torture and rape of the villagers.

Around six months later, a soldier in the 11th Light Infantry Brigade--known among the men as "the Butcher's Brigade"--wrote a letter telling of widespread killing and torturing of Vietnamese civilians by entire units of the US military (he did not specifically refer to My Lai). The letter was sent to the general in charge of 'Nam and trickled down the chain of command to Major Colin Powell, a deputy assistant chief of staff at the Americal Division, who was charged with investigating the matter and formulating a response.

After a desultory check--which consisted mainly of investigating the soldier who wrote the letter, rather than his allegations--Powell reported that everything was hunkey-dory. There may be some "isolated incidents" by individual bad seeds, but there were no widespread atrocities. He wrote: "In direct refutation of this portrayal is the fact that relations between Americal soldiers and the Vietnamese people are excellent." The matter was closed.

To this day, we might not know about the carnage at My Lai if it hadn't been for another solider who later wisely sent a letter to his Congressman. (Twenty-five years later Powell gave an interview in which he not only failed to condemn the massacre but seemed to excuse it.)

Though some of my faith in humanity was restored when I heard a historian note that by the end of the Vietnam War pilots were refused en masse to run bombing missions over North Vietnam, having destroyed all plausible military targets. (The military is working hard to make sure something like that can't happen again, e.g., military drones)

What bothers me about the military is there is no accountability when it comes to its past. What happened to the people who ordered LSD testing on soldiers? What happened to the people who used chemical warfare in Vietnam (Agent Orange)? What about the person who wrote the manual to teach the Latin American soldiers to torture? What does it mean that someone who tried to cover up My Lai has become Secretary of State? I don't know what has become of all the past military criminals, but it doesn't seem like much -- and anyone who joins the military now doesn't really know what they are going to be asked to do, or what the ultimate intentions of the leaders are. But past performance gives a pretty damn good idea.

And what you do in the military isn't about stupid shit like illegal monopolies. You can do wrong on a scale not normally possible in our everyday lives. Let's be honest: you can do evil. And you might not even realize it... when you flip the switch that drops the bomb, do you know if your cause is really just? Do you know who you are killing? Are you ready to kill a child? Are you ready to kill a mother? Because the military is killing a lot of children and mothers these days, and if the bombs start falling on Baghdad, the number of innocent dead is going to skyrocket, no one can deny it. Are you ready to be part of that killing machine?

It's one thing to bet your own life on a cause, but the military gave up that a while ago -- American soldiers die in accidents, not battle. Now they're betting other people's lives on it. The moral weight of killing is far heavier than the moral weight of dying. I'm not a Christian man, but I have great respect for the teachings of Jesus -- I think we all know on which side of the bomb he'd be on when it falls from the plane, and I think we'd all know which person would receive his blessings.

Re:Peace Corp

[kasparov]

As someone who spent 30 days in solitary confinement for disobeying orders in the Marine Corps (mainly because I am a stubborn geek who isn't good a taking orders that I disagree with--yes I know it was a really bad idea to enlist in the Marine Corps as an Infantryman if I can't take orders...the recruiter called on a particularly interesting day in my life--we'll call it a "learning experience"), I can attest that taking the "ultimate step" and disobeying orders can be a very unpleasant experience. One's rights under the UCMJ are significantly less than one's rights under the US Constitution.

In regards to the job analogy, you don't get sent to jail for deciding to quit your civilian job.

Re:Peace Corp

[schlach]

+1 Insightful. There's just way too many interesting discussions on this article to sit and moderate, though.

Though some of my faith in humanity was restored when I heard a historian note that by the end of the Vietnam War pilots were refused en masse to run bombing missions over North Vietnam, having destroyed all plausible military targets.

Sorta like what some Israeli officers are doing in Palestine.

(The military is working hard to make sure something like that can't happen again, e.g., military drones)

Yes, there is the geek "contribution". Sigh. It would perhaps be better for the world, if not necessarily for each nation's military might, if all the World's geeks motivated to develop better weapons were to instead enlist. If nothing else, it might at least put a face on the death and suffering caused by the previous generation's "defense" geeks, rather than making the decision to kill a less human one.

With regards to the parent, I would agree that you are ultimately responsible for every action you take. Having "orders" is a dodge. My advice would be to join no military or organization that would issue you orders that you would feel uncomfortable refusing, should they conflict with your own judgement. Lend your skills and judgement to your employer, whomever it should be. Never give up your judgement, or become a tool for others to do evil.

I'm always reminded of the Allies and the Germans, at the signing of the Armistice at the end of WWI, getting up out of the trenches and meeting each other in No Man's Land for congratulations and revelry. Why didn't they do the same ten minutes earlier? Because the orders to kill were still coming in, and the order for peace had not yet arrived. How odd.

I believe there are very few people fighting wars that want to be fighting wars. The real motivation is coming from the top, the orders of people who aren't involved in combat. Everyone else is praying for peace, but have been stirred by a sense of duty to compromise their judgement in the service of the war mongers. Again, what an odd thing to value more than life itself.

Mother Earth, Mother Board is a good read

[JeffGB]

The Wired Magazine article Mother Earth, Mother board is an article written by a hacker/tourist.
I've always liked reading this article, and it lists neat places to visit

How to see the world...

[surfcow]

... accept a job where "very little travel is involved".

That did it for me.

aloha,
=brian

Try This:

[Geminatron]

You're looking for "Engineers Without Borders":
here a few of their addresses:

http://ewob.colorado.edu
EWOB USA

http://www.ewb-isf.org
EWB CANADA

http://www.isf-france.org
EWB France = Ingénieurs sans Frontières (ISF)

There are lots of other local and national EWB groups, a google search should find em.

Well...

[NanoGator]

..you could join the Army and visit the Middle East. Sunny skies, high tech environment, and the lucky winner can play a game of "Whack the Laden"!

*hopes that joke wasn't in too bad of taste, midly bad taste is acceptable*

Re:Well...

[bcemoli]

Texas?

NGO's that want geeks.

[kapurp]

Try geek corps or Engineers without borders or if you're Canadian you can apply to Net Corps.

Articles on the topic

[Teribaen]

There's an ongoing series of articles at kuro5hin on this exact topic.

first part second part

Go Back to School

[Lokni]

I would say go back to school. There are programs at various schools, including but not limited to state and private universities, that offer study abroad. Pick your country. I went to Spain this past summer for 2 months on a program to learn Spanish. That was it. Cost was $3600 including room and board and school. After the program was over I spent the next month hooving it around western Europe. With a month railpass, I was able to visit 12 different countries. Stay at hostels which are safe and offer clean, comfortable nightly accomodations for as little as $10 a night. Overall, the trip cost me about $6000. The best part of it was that I was able to get stafford loans to finance almost the entire trip. Nothing like a government gauranteed 3.4% interest loan that you don't have to pay back until you are not taking any more classes.

merchant marine

[Shadow Wrought]

One of my Grandpa's buddies did an around the world tour by getting a cabin aboard a merchant marine ship.

It was super cheap and he got to spend a week or so in all sorts of different port towns. I have no idea whether it would interest you or not, but I contemplated doing it before I met my fiancee.

BTW, the guy who did this was 83!

So you don't necessarily have to do it while you are young;-)

Change your plans and save money!

[Ichoran]

Money = flexibility. You have nine months. If flexibility and adventure are important to you, save some now. Whether you end up in the Peace Corps or whatever, it will help give you room to breathe.

What to do..

[Maskirovka]

The choice should be clear...
1) learn to speak three lanuages fluently
2) become a tech god
3) leave school
4) set up your own international smut business
5) PROFIT!

Teach English

[RealAlaskan]

If you LOOK american [1], you should be able to teach English in Taiwan. You could make a bit more than enough to live on, and living somewhere is far better than being a tourist there [2]. My inlaws have been trying to get me to do that, but I'm making significantly better money here. I suspect that you could do the same thing in Japan, and most of the Orient.

If you are looking for technical work which will further your career, things may be a little harder. I know that the big investment banks have operations around the world, and use lots of expensive IT, and lend people between countries at least occasionally. This is a bad time to be looking for that kind of job, though, and if you want to have a life, and see your surroundings, you don't want to work there.

[1] You don't have to BE a native English speaker, just look like one. If you look Chinese, you will have a hard time convincing the locals that you speak proper English, even if you grew up here and speak no Chinese!

[2]If you want to learn about the place, rather than simply see the sights and move on.

Language is the key

[rholland356]

If you want to see the world, earning your keep as you go, then you'll have to rely on your three fluent languages.

I hope they aren't too modern, for much of the world has yet to catch up. For instance, you might be fluent in Java 1.4, but that won't help you when you are in Perl territory.

I suppose you could travel a ways on COBOL--particularly through Europe--but I'd have to say it is C that will take you around the globe in good fashion.

Robert

I can't believe this-

[purduephotog]

- Hey, it's simple. Really. Book a flight overseas. Pick a return date. Figure out what to do once you get there and just DO stuff. There has GOT to be somet things you'd like to see- Eiffel Tower, Louver, Rome, etc- you know what you WANT to do, so go do it!

I did the same thing, disappeared for a month. Hooked up with total strangers for a couple of days. Drifted apart. Took pictures

No one can make a trip but you- and if it doesn't work out you'll have only your geeky self to blame rather than that 'stupid slashdot crowd'. Figure out what you want out of life and do it, or do you have absolutely no iniative?

I can only speak in negatives...

[I Am The Owl]

But don't do something tech-related. You have the rest of your life ahead of you to do that. Do something you've never done before and probably won't have another chance to. Several people here have suggested that you go to a foreign country and teach English; I concur with this sentiment. It seems like an excellent way to see the world.

All in all, it's not unlike college: do it because it's a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity, not the beginning of the rest of your life.

Go Spooky

[Featureless]

I'll be blunt. My friend, you should consider joining the CIA. You fit their profile perfectly. As you can imagine, they are currently hiring with a vengance.

http://www.cia.gov/cia/employment/ciaeindex.htm

The experience is literally second to none in the world, and in a variety of private industries, CIA is solid gold on a resume.

-David

find a job.....

[rew]

Even when the economy is bad, if you're good you're going to find a job. So, spin a globe, pick a place, and send a bunch of resumes in that direction. Make sure you "live cheap" so that you will be able to fall into a "work 6 months, travel 2 months" schedule, or something like that. Travel a bit around the "work" place as well. Then you should have enough saved to be able to say goodbye, and travel for two months straight. Then find a job again, preferably somewhere else. Repeat 2 or 3 times......

Roger.

Re:Armed Forces

[bomb_number_20]

I spent three years in the military. I was gone a lot (approximately 5-6 months out of the year) but rarely saw anything more than swamps, mountains, wooded areas and jungles.

There were some really cool things. My favorite was looking at stuff through night-vision goggles- especially the stars. Animals were cool,too- it was sort of like they knew you weren't really a threat because you can't see in the dark so they come out all around you. Another fun thing that you get to do in the army is board and ride passenger jets with automatic weapons. ;)

Anyway, if you want to see the world (that is, cities and local people) without having to kill and bomb everything you meet then the army (or any military service for that matter) is the wrong choice. The Air Force might be better, but from friends I've talked to, if you REALLY want to get out and go places the Navy can't be beat.

Those guys go from one end of the globe to the other and get free time to wander around and explore- something we really didn't.

I'm guessing, though, that military service isn't what this guy is looking for.

Yes, you are being cynical

[kvn299]

I served in the Peace Corps in the mid-90s. Although I do admit these are extraordinarily dangerous times, there were plenty of dangers in the world during that time as well. In addition, I recently spent two years traveling all over kingdom come. There were lots of dangers, but what I gained by traveling far outweighed the risks involved.

Upon returning home to the US after Peace Corps, I never felt more unsafe in my entire life. In Cameroon, my host country, my neighbors looked out for me. If something bad was going to happen it would most likely be someone pointing a gun at me and taking my money. If you did what was asked, then you were OK. They weren't doing it for kicks.

In the US, my chances of dying in a car crash were much higher compared to the chances of that happening in Cameroon. Or someone might break into my house and shoot me just for the hell of it... etc. etc. Have you been reading the papers lately???

These times *are* dangerous. But you shouldn't let fear prevent you from experiencing everything the world has to offer. A little common sense during travel goes A LONG LONG WAY in increasing your safety.

Go live and stop hiding in your house.

Re:Yes, you are being cynical

[Ian Peon]

I spent 4 years in the Navy, 3 of them living on a ship.

On the ship, we visited Alcupulco, Panama, Hong Kong, Singapore, India (forget the port name), Newcastle and Freemantle (Australia), Abu Dhabi and Dhubi (United Arab Emirates), Oman (again forget the port name) and several US ports.

Most dangerous port I've been to: San Diego - where we had one of our guys shot at a night club, and a couple others mugged.

Re:Yes, you are being cynical

[GringoGoiano]

The world's still a very safe place. A cheeseburger-eating habit is many times more likely than a terrorist (overeas or at home) or a sniper to cause you real harm.

We make these little choices every day that have much more impact on our health and well-being than do terrorists:

• choice in diet
• lack of exercise
• unsafe sexual practices
• drug use
• operating vehicles and machinery under the influence
• snowboarding and fast motorcycles (hey, some risks are worth taking).

Americans want to be invulnerable, and then to blame others when things go wrong. The sniper in D.C. has probably shaved less person-years off residents' lives directly than have residents themselves through their own reactions to the crisis.

This week's Economist has an article "The Logic of Irrational Fear", examining American behavior in the face of risk. Check it out. They maintain that for a short time, the sniper has raised the overall chances of being murdered in the area by several times. But this increased risk must be short-lived, and Americans and their freedom-preserving media are overreacting to the situation.

Re:Peace Corps

[imr]

Just yesterday i was saying to my wife:
"I'm so glad I could travel around the wrld when I was younger. It looks like 20 years old people won't be able o do it before long."
On the other hand, my wife had to flee her country as a child because of another country politics deciding people like her parents(artists) needed to be persecuted. So she told me that she would have loved to stay at home to discover her own land.
This I also did. Travel through my country by bike. It's so different from being a tourist. People get in touch with you because they see you take the time to actually meet them.

Commendable!

[pvera]

My hat is off to you sir.

I was going to say go for something unrelated, but there's plenty of volunteers working on normal average stuff that anyone can do. If you want to do good, volunteer in something that allows you to use your specialty.

For example, if I were a linux guy, I would find one of the groups that collects old hardware, reconditions it and deploys it with Linux at places (wherever) that cannot afford new computers and/or Windows. If you can do that and train a few locals too you will be making greater impact than volunteering for the Peace corps and handing out leaflets on birth control, vaccines, etc.

The reason I recommend you to pick something that allows you to use your experience is because you don't want to be left out of touch with your field for over a year (this would literally mean professional suicide for an IT person). If you are in IT and you spend a year making old and tired hardware work, you will hone your skills while you do something good, and it will even make good resume fodder later down the road.

Me? If I was single and felt like doing so, I would find a Spanish-speaking country and volunteer to teach programming and "Nerd English" to junior high kids (those of you that, like me, are not native English speakers know what I am talking about). To me teaching is the most challenging and rewarding occupation I could think of when salary is not an issue.

Right on!

[rocjoe71]

Go for it, you'll have a blast, I know I did... One of the best options going would be work visas-- Alot of European countries are chomping-at-the-bit for skilled people.

I lived and worked in London for four years, 3 years in various levels of IT for various IT departments all around the city. For those that had the experience, contracting rates could go as high as 1000 Pounds/day (mainframe programmer). Americans can get a 1-year work visa, countries in the Commonwealth get 2 years or more if your parents or grandparents were British citizens.

For up to date details go to or write to your nearest British consulate or embassy.

The are lots of other countries that offer work visas as well, look in the travel section of your bookstore for ideas on working overseas, they'll have names and addresses to contact.

Want to see the world?

[acacia]

Become a consultant. As a consultant I have traveled about 75% of the time over the last five years. Now in my case the travel has been strictly domestic, but my company has had international clients. There are many companies that specialize in technology consulting where the job is 50-100% travel. Data warehousing in particular is very mature in the US, but less so overseas. There may be opportunities for placement overseas, particularly if your language skills are good.

Admittedly, the job market is kind of sketchy right now, though many companies (including mine) are still hiring. The company I work for has actually still managed to grow our revenues and become profitable throughout the recession.

As an added bonus, you typically do not have any material living expenses, as your meals, transportation, and hotel are covered by the client. On top of that, consulting salaries are much higher than corporate IT.

If you make the cut, you will also get to work with very high caliber individuals who are experts in their fields. There are exceptions, but typically this type of exposure is difficult to get in a normal IT shop.

There is a downside, however. The work is stressful, you don't have the luxury of making as many mistakes, the hours are long, you are living out of a hotel, and it is nearly impossible to sustain meaningful relationships.

Good Luck!!!

Just remember...

[sterno]

If travelling the world and having problems, just remember this one important phrase:

"Don't shoot, I'm Candian!"

Re:Just remember...

[SmoothOperator]

This will not work. They will immediately recognize you as an American. You have to say "I am CanAdian!"

Take a job on a freight ship

[f97tosc]

My brother, who is in med school, decided that he wanted to do something completely different for a semester.

He contacted a freight company and got a simple job onboard a ship. The job was pretty simple (e.g., removing rust) but not that demanding (only 8 hrs a day). Being the only one educated among the sailors, he was often invited to have dinner and discussions with the captain, who had a lot of stories to tell. And of course, it was always plenty of fun when he and the other sailors were 'let loose' in some port for a couple of days.

Sounds like something for you?

Tor

a little presumtious, I'd say

[SethJohnson]

If you're an electrical engineering major who reads slashdot, I wouldn't be too confident that the wife and kids thing will just fall into your lap later on down the road. You might want to get to work on that part right away. It could take some time to implement.

Seth

Re:Get some credit cards

[swordgeek]

Rather than modding this down, I'll reply.

What you propose will either (a) not work, or (b) get you into deep legal trouble, at least in the US, Canada, and as far as I know, all of the UK.

If you have $20k in cash and $20k in debt, you have a net worth of $0, which won't get you approved for a mortgage on that apartment. Business or residential, you'll still need that mortgage, and the banks WILL find your debt.

Unless, of course, you're planning on hiding it from them. Then you'll be committing fraud, and you still won't get away with it.

Forget this advice. Just go travelling!

Here's a thought

[The Bungi]

I hear Saddam Hussein is hiring electrical engineers that know a lot about high-speed centrifuges. Apparently they use them for making baby formula, go figure.

Re:Peace Corps

[Wyatt Earp]

Now is just as safe as before, as long as you stay on a mostly beaten path.

I went to Isreal during the first intifata and in '94 right after the Jewish settler shot up the mosque. I stayed in the far north of Isreal when Hezbollah was all fired up. It was safe. Honestly, even in the recent bombing frenzy in Israel it's still a 1 in 100,000 chance of being geeked.

If one has some common sense about traveling and where not to go, it's pretty safe to travel the world.

Don't go to Afghanistan, Iraq, rural southern Phillipines, rural former Eastern-Bloc nation, rural former Soviet Republic, don't get off I-90 between Spokane and Missoula at night, or if you don't look Aryan, don't go to rural Columbia, don't hook up with Shining Path leaders in Peru.

If one has some common sense, don't worry about it.

I stayed on the beach in Tel Aviv for 3 weeks, people told me not to do it, but if you take some precautions and avoid gettin' plastered, it's safe as anything.

Terror can happen anywhere on Earth. From Finland to Belfast to gas stations in the DC metro area to a night club in Bali, a 85% Hindu island.

The secret is to be careful out there.

How fucking depressing

[NineNine]

if you put it off you probably won't get around to it until retirement.


WHY? Why does everybody have this mindset that there's no choice after college except to get a boring job in a cubicle, get married, pop out kids, buy a big house, and hopefully, have enough time and money at the end to sit on your ass for a few years? That's so fucking depressing. You've only got one shot at life, and it may not be long. You never know. If you think that the rest of your life will be so bad that you won't get to do what you want to do (or at least, not for another 40 years), then you need to rethink things. Hell, just watch Fight Club a few times and *think* about it.

- From a person living a very unusual, fun, and rewarding life (ie: not a lemming)

Re:How fucking depressing

[geekd]

Amen, brother!

So many people get trapped into doing what they are "supposed" to do. Society pressures you into it. RESIST!

There's nothing wrong with marrige, children and home ownership, if that's what *you* want.

Think for yourself.

Hell, I'm married, and I'm in escrow on my first house right now. No kids, though, and we probably won't have any. No patience for 'em.

I spent almost 10 years trying to be a rock star before I got tired of being poor and got a real job. If I'd never tried I would have regretted it for the rest of my boring ass life.

Travel the world, dude. Travel for as long as you like. There will always be a job for a man of your skills when your ready (if your ready) to settle down. Jesus, 3 languages and how many tech skills? Write your own ticket.

Do what you want. But make sure it's what *you* want, and not what you're *supposed* to want. That's all I'm saying.

Re:How fucking depressing

[Parsec]

Well said, sir!

To Han Onymous (and everyone else):
Socrates said "The unexamined life is not worth living." I don't think he meant us to just examine it once and decide. You have to examine every day and ask if this is the path you want to be on. You have to always be open to new ideas. If you're not growing, you're decaying.

Re:How fucking depressing

[DNS-and-BIND]

Well, there's a downside to it, as well. Hedonism is fine, but when you're pushing forty and you still haven't heeded the biological urge to reproduce, you'll feel regret. Besides, if you wait that long to have children, you'll be sixty by the time they get out of school. Hedonism inevitably leads to ennui. Friends move on. Passing yourself on to the next generation is the only way to achieve immortality.

Of course, YMMV. I was lucky enough to have a generally positive family, who actually gets together on the holidays and vacations together once a year at grandpa's expense. I can understand how those who had crappy families would want to stay as far away from that experience as possible by immersion in pleasure-seeking.

Re:Peace Corps

[illusion_2K]

Although I can certainly understand that sentiment, in some cases the opposite is very true.

My experience in the matter happened this summer. I was working in Zambia and took several trips down to Zimbabwe during all of the land reformation madness. While all my friends and family back in Canada thought I was nuts, I ended up having amazing trips each and every time. Apart from the fact that Zimbabwe is a beautiful country and the people are warm and hospitable, the political instability lead to a black market on American currency (the exchange rate was being regulated by the government). So, while the official exchange rate for US dollars was officially about 75:1, the unofficial rate was somewhere between 400 and 1000 to 1. In the end, this difference translated directly into purchasing power for foreigners and I was consequently able to do stuff that I wouldn't have been able to otherwise.

Other than a little anticipation the first time I went there, I never felt in any danger at all. As long as you use your good judgement then chances are you'll be fine. That being said, the social and political issues there are immense, and it will be decades before they recover from everything.

Peace Corps

[jefu]

I did the peace corps thing after college. And I'd recommend it highly. If you have the chance, jump at it. You'll see and do things you'd probably never encounter otherwise and you'll learn a lot. Some employers will discount it as will some grad schools - but others will look on it as a big plus.

yup, you're being paranoid

[fantomas]

I think you're being paranoid ('Latent IT'). Tell us the places you've visited and when you found them the most dangerous.

At the grand old age of 35 years old, last year, I packed in my job and bought a round the world ticket. UK- India (near the Pakistan border) - Singapore - Thailand - Cambodia - Australia - New Zealand - USA - back to UK. Best thing I've ever done. Forget your alma mater, travel is the university of life. Wish I'd been able to work in one of those countries, the other posters are right about trying to pick up a job and stay for a while.

I only ever got into a scary situation once -yup, you guessed it, in the USA (three cop cars pulled me over on a desert road in Texas and pulled their guns out and accused me of smuggling drugs). Only time anybody pulled a gun on me.

Ok so bad things happen sometimes everywhere in the world but hey I can laugh about the scary bits now and I had some damn fine times that I'll be able to bore the grandkids with.

You are very, very wrong.

[raehl]

I did pretty much everything in high school except music and drama, and I loved it. I got to do some really cool stuff, event went to DC for a week and met a buncha real politicians. (They look like real people up close!)

Now, don't get me wrong, I spent my fair share of time in front of the computer too, but if oyu'er not doing sports, or part of student council, or on the debate team - what are you doing with your free time? Drinking?

Frankly, I had a lot more fun in high school than my friends who spent most of their time high.

Oh, and there's one other very good reason to get into college:

I got to go to Europe for a YEAR because I got into college and knew some German.