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Brains on a Chip

Posted by michael on from the pass-the-onion-dip-and-salsa dept.

jhouserizer writes "The New Scientist magazine has an article reporting on new advances in keeping brain tissue alive (and working) on a "chip", with electrodes that can monitor the brain activity. Could this be a step toward computers that can learn as humans learn?"

43 of 64 comments (clear)

  1. byebye body by Inominate · · Score: 2, Funny

    So when can I have my brain removed and bolted directly into my computer?

    Who needs holographic displays, or high quality speakers when it's all piped directly into your mind?.

    1. Re:byebye body by a_borowski · · Score: 1

      Digital rights management sure would suck though.

    2. Re:byebye body by Tablizer · · Score: 2, Funny

      Digital rights management sure would suck though.

      All the porn stars are gonna copyright their bodies, and bill you everytime you fantasize about them.

      --
      Table-ized A.I.
    3. Re:byebye body by spike+hay · · Score: 2

      All the porn stars are gonna copyright their bodies, and bill you everytime you fantasize about them.

      And the RIAA will charge you through the nose whenever you get a song stuck in your head. ;-)

      --
      If you don't understand any of my sayings, come to me in private and I shall take you in my German mouth.
  2. The future? by FosterSJC · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This can't really be the future of computing can it? I mean, we all are aware of the biggest difference between computers and thu human brain. Humans have great pattern recognition, while computers have great calculating/processing powers. Slicing pieces of brain and attaching them to chips hardly seems likely to enhance either the brain's computational ability or the chip's recognizing abilities. If anything, this is a step forward in facilitating communications between man and machine. I could see uses in reversing paralysis, but thought-upgrades or what have you are a long way off.

    1. Re:The future? by Myco · · Score: 5, Insightful
      You're being too literal here -- assuming that the end result will look just like a particular intermediate step. Nobody's saying we're going to build computers out of brain tissue. Well, maybe somebody is but that's not the point.

      In order to potentially imitate the human brain, we still need to learn a lot more about it. Since there's no manpage for the brain, it's a black-box problem and we have to reverse engineer it by trying various combinations of inputs and outputs (as well as analyzing the physical structure, of course). This new technique allows us to do so more effectively, hence improves our ability to understand. That's all.

      --
      My deviantArt site
  3. The key to immortality by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Replace the neurons one by one with an equivalent electrical doodads until the whole kaboodle is machine. Then you'll be effectively immortal, unless you skimped and purchased from the Shack or something.

    1. Re:The key to immortality by GreyWolf3000 · · Score: 2
      "I'm sorry, sir, our warranties don't cover that."

      "Well shit, I guess that means I'm dead."

      I'm sorry, but someone would just plain have to get screwed. Actually, almost everyone would dave to. Imagine the kind of control that could be exerted onto someone whom humans designed and manufactured.

      "Good afternoon, sir. All your cyber-organs are belong to us."

      --
      Slashdot: Where people pretend to be twice as smart as they really are by behaving like children.
    2. Re:The key to immortality by Dread_ed · · Score: 1

      In other news, a man was zapped to death today when he ran around his home for two hours in woolen socks, and then reached for his doorknob...

      It is completely impossible to say anything intelligent or enlightening in a space this size, excep

      --
      When the only tool you have is a claw hammer every problem starts to look like the back of someone's skull.
  4. Who will it be? by silicon_synapse · · Score: 3, Informative

    Well this brain tissue will have to come from somewhere. If it comes from humans, we could have the same issues as with stem cell research. If it comes from animals (more likely) PETA will defecate copious amounts of brick

    1. Re:Who will it be? by dacarr · · Score: 2, Informative
      They already have used animals. Note the article mentions rat {and,or} mouse brain tissue.

      --
      This sig no verb.
    2. Re:Who will it be? by ActiveSX · · Score: 2, Funny

      by silicon_synapse on 16:34 17th October, 2002 (#4474477)

      I find your name quite appropriate for this story. You used your amazing silicon brain to compute the chances of this story happening when you registered your account, didn't you?

    3. Re:Who will it be? by hplasm · · Score: 1

      Politicians. Fresh and unused

      --
      ...and he grinned, like a fox eating shit out of a wire brush.
  5. A step towards learning computers? Not quite... by stefanlasiewski · · Score: 4, Funny

    "The New Scientist magazine has an article reporting on new advances in keeping brain tissue alive (and working) on a "chip", with electrodes that can monitor the brain activity. Could this be a step toward computers that can learn as humans learn?"

    Not quite, The scientists are really just developing a a way for keeping your brain alive while watching TELEVISION!

    --
    "Can of worms? The can is open... the worms are everywhere."
    1. Re:A step towards learning computers? Not quite... by Alsee · · Score: 2

      The scientists are really just developing a a way for keeping your brain alive while watching TELEVISION!

      All attempts to date have failed. Scientists fear it may never be possible.

      -

      --
      - - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.
  6. sweet by pizza_milkshake · · Score: 2

    forget blade servers, gimme a rack full of these.

    1. Re:sweet by dacarr · · Score: 2

      No, no, no! Imagine a beowulf cluster of these!

      --
      This sig no verb.
    2. Re:sweet by skaffen42 · · Score: 1

      Great. I can just imagine what is going to happen when the MTTS (mean time to senility) starts to kick in on your server farm. "Error four-oh-something... damn, where did I put that page?"

      --
      People couldn't type. We realized: Death would eventually take care of this.
    3. Re:sweet by LinkDJ · · Score: 1

      You have one of 18 signatures that dosen't suck.

      --
      http://www.linkdj.net/
  7. Another use by hackwrench · · Score: 1

    Being able to send instructions to a computer hardwired to your brain.

    1. Re:Another use by snoopdalf · · Score: 1

      What about the interface? Microsoft wont allow anything REMOTELY related to computers being used without an OS, Preferably theirs. Its a vicious circle I tell you. Back to the Linux Windows war, not even mentioning cross ubgrade issues between different manufacturers... "Sorry sir, your MS BRAIN professional is currently unlicenced, well have to confiscate your brain..." ps: computer viruses in your BRAIN !!!

  8. Oh contraire. by Trusty+Penfold · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Could this be a step toward computers that can learn as humans learn?

    No, it's a step towards brains that feel as computers feel.

    1. Re:Oh contraire. by mj_1903 · · Score: 2, Funny

      I don't want to feel what my computer is feeling "Help, I'm burning, I'm burning!"

    2. Re:Oh contraire. by exp(pi*sqrt(163)) · · Score: 1

      I think you mean "au contraire".

      --
      Doesn't it make you feel good to know that our freedoms are protected by politicans, lawyers and journalists.
    3. Re:Oh contraire. by rpresser · · Score: 1

      Certainly not the first step, then.

  9. Hocum or over protective of company IP? by Deanasc · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I've been trying to find something, anything on this breakthrough besides a press release. It sounds like cutting edge neuroscience but I haven't found anything peer-reviewed in any of the journals. I leave it up to you to draw your own conclusions.

    --
    I've hit Karma 50 and gotten a Score:5, Troll... I win!
    1. Re:Hocum or over protective of company IP? by Alik · · Score: 5, Informative

      That's because it's not a breakthrough, it's commercialization of stuff that's been done in the academic labs for a couple years. Amazingly, it *does* take time to go from neat idea to marketable product. Electrode arrays can be a real bitch to fabricate.

      See:

      Biosensors & Bioelectronics 16:527-33
      Brain Research Protocols 2(4):229-42
      Journal of Neuroscience Methods 101(1):31-42
      Journal of Neuroscience Methods 114(2):135-48

      Plus, as the other poster mentioned, Jerry Pine's work. However, AFAIK, Pine's no longer working on that project, having found other interests. Pity, because the neurowells (as noted by Peter Fromherz in the New Scientist article) give the kind of single-unit interface that might be very desirable. I know that my group is planning to use similar approaches.

  10. Disturbing thoughts... by dacarr · · Score: 2
    Anybody remember that episode of Star Trek, "The Perfect Computer"? Or Emerson Lake and Palmer's "Karn Evil 9 (third impression)" and the last verse thereof?

    Counter to my previous idea of a beowulf cluster of these, is anybody even remotely concerned about the possible outcome? Frankly, I'm scared shitless.

    --
    This sig no verb.
    1. Re:Disturbing thoughts... by trezor · · Score: 1

      Well.. It has possibilities though!

      First... If you got a shitty job, you can put your brain in "autopilot"-mode, and watch television yourself while your at work.

      This autopilot could ofcourse also be programmed to handle domestic problems... Now thats a use! (-:

      --
      Not Buzzword 2.0 compliant. Please speak english.
  11. Future of computers learning ... by rotwhylr · · Score: 5, Funny

    The LAST thing we should want is a computer that learns like a human. With my luck I'll probably buy one that complains about homework and gets F's before dropping out of school and mooching off me for life.

    --
    -- Windows is not simply installed on a computer; it is inflicted.
  12. In a related story by WhiteChocolate42 · · Score: 3, Funny

    YOUR TOWN- In a related story, several zombies broke into a local CompUSA, chanting "Braaaaaains" and licking every processor in sight.

  13. ad nastalgia by Tablizer · · Score: 2

    "Everything tastes great when it sits and a Ritz"

    --
    Table-ized A.I.
  14. Re:I gotta say it.... by hplasm · · Score: 1

    IQ of a WWF audience.

    --
    ...and he grinned, like a fox eating shit out of a wire brush.
  15. Re:The Nazis have been doing this for years by hplasm · · Score: 1

    Didn't they stop in the '40s?

    --
    ...and he grinned, like a fox eating shit out of a wire brush.
  16. eeeeew! by jericho4.0 · · Score: 1
    Man, I hate it when my nice, clean, acedemic world of Computer Science gets involved in messy ethical problems.

    Science needs to keep a handle on what's right and wrong. I'm not saying this shouldn't be researched, but I would hate to see this become an industry.

    --
    "A language that doesn't affect the way you think about programming, is not worth knowing" - Alan Perlis
  17. Brains on a chip? by sopuli · · Score: 1

    Sounds like something Hanibal Lector maight cook up.

  18. Hardware and software issues... by snoopdalf · · Score: 2, Funny

    What about the interface? Microsoft wont allow anything REMOTELY related to computers being used without an OS, Preferably theirs. Its a vicious circle I tell you. Back to the Linux Windows war, not even mentioning cross upgrade issues between different manufacturers... "Sorry sir, your MS BRAIN professional is currently unlicenced, well have to confiscate your brain..." ps: computer viruses in your BRAIN !!!

  19. Re:The Nazis have been doing this for years by hplasm · · Score: 1
    the ones who were killed stopped in the '40s

    (as you do) Or were they...perhaps their brains live on in slices with chips...?!???

    --
    ...and he grinned, like a fox eating shit out of a wire brush.
  20. Fried up... by Zelet · · Score: 2

    I fried up the brain on my AMD Thunderbird and toasted it with a nice chiante'. **slurping noises**

    --
    ...And when they came for me, there was no one left to speak out for me." - Martin Niemoeller (1892-1984)
  21. For those who didn't read the article... by Kenrod · · Score: 2, Insightful



    The article is about medical applications, NOT computing. This doesn't have anything to do with computing. The researchers have found a way to keep larger portions of the brain alive so they can monitor the effects of psychoactive drugs. This may lead to new avenues of research for Alzheimers, Parkinsons, ALS, and many mental disorders. The chip is actually a tiny EEG. The first product is targeted to be an anti-anxiety drug.

    I think the most interesting aspect of this story is the living consciousness aspect. Can this piece of brain (or pieces intercommunicating) which is biologically active, become self-aware? Although these experiments have only been done on rats, if it were human brain tissue, would it be "alive" in an ethical, moral, or legal sense? These questions are probably several years away from being relevant, but is there any doubt we are heading down that road?

    --
    Good heavens Miss Sakamoto - you're beautiful!
  22. Re:neurons and stuff? by Zurk · · Score: 1

    just out of curiosity...has anyone done a realistic model of a single neuron ? or at least a complete emulation of a single neuron in software ? that includes all the growth and electrical/chemical effects ?
    i check minduploading.org (MURG list at http://minduploading.org/mailman/listinfo/murg) but they dont seem to have accurate models.

  23. Rise Of The CORE by Wes+Janson · · Score: 1

    "..for each side the only acceptable outcome was the complete elimination of the other."

  24. Re:neurons and stuff? by Alik · · Score: 2

    Including all growth and electrical/chemical effects is not yet possible, because they are not yet all known. Furthermore, knowing all of them would probably tell us that there's no such thing as a generic neuron model; each cell has a very specialized gene expression profile that near-optimizes it for its role in the network. It may be that this can be reduced to expressing a neuron as a function of some hundred-odd parameters (as a guess), but it is not yet clear what the controlling parameters are.

    The MURG question of computational modeling of the human brain is a very open problem with no solution in sight. I was not familiar with them, but they do at least seem to be composed of people with useful technological skills. It'll be interesting to see if they come up with anything cool.