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Small Webcasters get Powerful New Ally

An anonymous reader writes "On, Sunday, October 20, 2002, the RIAA's subsidiary, SoundExchange, was set to introduce draconian new fees on small internet webcasters - fees that were designed to drive those webcasters out of business and preserve the RIAA's monopoly on the distribution of music in North America. One of those small webcasters is the Triangle's classical music station, WCPE - quite possibly the finest classical music station in the world. Now it turns out that WCPE has an 800 lb gorilla in their corner, and he's set his sights on the RIAA."

25 of 354 comments (clear)

  1. WCPE may be great, but that's not why he did it... by ewanrg · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If you read the full article, you'll notice that Helms' office mentions that they heard from Religious broadcasters in the area that felt that the burden would still be too great on them.

    Nevertheless, nice to see that even the Religious Right is "getting the idea" in terms of dealing with the RIAA...

  2. Double WOW by Christopher_G_Lewis · · Score: 5, Funny

    Jesse Helms? I never would have thought that he was 800lbs...

  3. Goodbye trance stations... by domninus.DDR · · Score: 5, Interesting

    The best trance stations on the internet went down because of this law, and my music selection has hurt since. The only one left is Digitally Imported, which is ok but I like Tag's Trance and XTC radio better. A "dance" radio station started broadcasting in dallas recently, it is ok but is very repetitive. And I did buy two or three cds of artists I had heard on tag's or xtc, but now I buy none. Well, those were import CDs anyway and RIAA probably didnt get anything from them.

    1. Re:Goodbye trance stations... by curunir · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The best trance stations on the internet went down because of this law.

      I hope you're referring to the DMCA and not HR5469 (the one that Helms killed in the Senate). The latter would have kept DI on the air permanently and probably would have brought TTT back on the air (I'm sure he could have raised enough in donations to pay the proposed fees).

      Everyone here seems to be under the misguided impression that killing this bill was a good thing because it didn't do enough to ensure that small webcasters could continue broadcasting. But people fail to realize that the alternative to this bill isn't likely to be a new bill. It'll most likely mean that CARP rates will go into effect (should SoundExchange choose to enforce them) and the stations that would have been able to be financially viable under the proposed bill, will no longer be.

      --
      "Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos!"
  4. Read the article. Darrr... by Viewsonic · · Score: 5, Informative

    It says he stopped it because smaller webcasters said the new 'lower' rates would be worse than the 'higher' ones after a certain amount of time and would drive them out of business. Even the new 'lower' rates were too high for some of them.. So im guessing it'll go from .07 per listener to maybe .01 which would still be too much IMO.. RIAA doesn't deserve squat for free advertising. RIAA should be paying webcasters to play the music.

    1. Re:Read the article. Darrr... by peter_gzowski · · Score: 5, Informative

      Jesse Helms blocked the legislation because the lower rates were still too high for many webcasters. However, these lower rates were not worse for the webcasters than the higher ones. The legislation was to change the rate from 0.07 per listener to some percentage of the webcasters' profits. For most webcasters, about 10%, for more profitable channels, 12%. However good intentioned Mr. Helms' blocking was, it will force webcasters to start paying (retroactively) fees based on the old system. They don't have to start ponying up all the dough quite yet, though, as this Salon article details.

      You are right that the RIAA should be paying the webcasters, just as they do with the regular radio station promoters (that's a whole other problem, though).

      --
      "Now gluttony and exploitation serves eight!" - TV's Frank
  5. hmm. wonder what mchawking would say about this... by asscroft · · Score: 5, Funny

    After all, he specializes in MP3s, and his songs are streamed from his site and mp3.com, but then again, one of his song is called "Why won't Jesse Helms just hury up and die"

    I guess we now know why, he's meant to save the webcasters.

    --
    because I have been enjoined by this Holy Office to abandon the false opinion which maintains that the Sun is the centre
  6. "Dammit, how'd we miss this guy?" by Dr.Seuss · · Score: 5, Funny

    Well, you can bet the RIAA won't make the mistake of overlooking his campaign funding again! ;)

  7. Re:Huh? by Yobgod+Ababua · · Score: 5, Informative

    I believe that was the infamous legislation which had a last minute 26 page addendum tacked on that changed it from being designed to ease finanical impact on small Webcasters into something deisgned to save a mere handful of the largest small webcasters and leave the others to hang.

    It snuck through the house before people realized it had changed. So blocking it in the Senate actually was acting on the side of the small webcasters.

    Check out the previous news on the subject for more details.

  8. Support the artists! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Beethoven and Mozart will compose more symphonies if they can put bread on their table.

  9. classical music? by Ashish+Kulkarni · · Score: 5, Insightful
    You know, it's really sad to see classical music being affected such. People who listen to classical music are a dying breed...although I'm a big fan of it myself, people simply do not like classical anymore nowadays. Also, the availibility of good classical music is thin where I live...people simply buy the latest songs or just pirate them and are happy with most of the (in my opinion) crap music that exists out there. Sigh...there goes the chance for people to listen to good classical music in their homes, hassle-free.

    Folks, if you dislike the RIAA's tactics and would like to listen to some alternative music, please give classical music a try...there's nothing like listening to some good ol' music.

  10. Re:Duh, I don't get it... by cornice · · Score: 5, Interesting

    You can: A, pay this wildly insane rate that will put you out of business. B, pay this lesser wildly insane rate that will put you out of business. C, hold out for a better deal.

  11. He's supposed to represent NC, not Hollywood by seosamh · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I'm not a big fan of Jesse Helms, but it appears
    that he is doing exactly what he should do as a
    senator for North Carolina. He's representing the
    interests of the state's residents in the Senate,
    vs. representing the interests of an out of state
    campaign donor.

    How many states stand to gain under the webcasting
    rates as approved in the House? Will there be a lot
    of new jobs pursuing small webcasters who haven't
    paid up? Will there be a lot of new technical skills
    dispersed through the population by reducing the
    number of webcasters through expensive licensing
    and/or royalies fees? Will there be a boom in artisic
    expression thanks to reduced chances for artists to
    gain exposure?

    Helms is right on this one. I wish more legislators
    were looking out for their own constituencies on
    matters like this, DMCA, etc.

  12. Re:WCPE may be great, but that's not why he did it by utahjazz · · Score: 5, Funny

    Damin that Helms! I've released 3 albums of really killer sermons, and I haven't gotten a dime from these stations yet.

  13. RTFA. by garcia · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The article says that the bill was DESIGNED to ease the financial burden on small webcasters, but in all reality, it probably would not have.

    They were to be charged .07 per person per song in royalties. Instead, at this point they can pay $500/yr (from 1998 to present, IIRC) to cover their costs.

    The small webcasters themselves had not been consulted when the original law was drafted and therefore felt that they would be put out of business by these "small" fees. .07/per song+person could raise some HEFTY fees.

  14. Re:Wow by foistboinder · · Score: 5, Funny
    Jesse Helms? I never would have thought a High Ranking Republican would get involved like this- and on the side of the smaller guy.

    Sometimes, even a blind squirrel finds a nut.

  15. What a genuinely interesting dilemma. by Quarex · · Score: 5, Funny

    I thought surely my stance of thinking both the RIAA and the Religious Right were both wrong about everything would never be problematic.

    But, no! Now, I might owe my ability to listen to all my favorite death metal, synth-pop, and hard house/trance webcasts to a group of people who generally only support things I vehemently oppose.

    So. . . confused. . . cannot pick. . . side. . .

    1. Re:What a genuinely interesting dilemma. by swillden · · Score: 5, Insightful

      So. . . confused. . . cannot pick. . . side. . .

      Welcome to the Real World, where nothing is black or white, no one is evil or good and nothing is _ever_ as simple as it seems.

      Glad to have you.

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
  16. It's a misprint by JohnTheFisherman · · Score: 5, Funny

    He's an 800 year old gorilla.

  17. Re:WCPE may be great, but that's not why he did it by JCCyC · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The Religious Right, incredible as it may seem, can be the killer ally of the digital freedom movement, just like Stalin was in WWII. Remember that morality vs. copyright case? (the right to edit movies to the customer's content)

    When talking to any individual with such orientation, we have to stress that the current copyright fundamentalism is made to favor Hollywood - you know, that big, unholy, pornography-peddling anti-God collective in California. Mentioning Scientology might help too. YMMV.

    Now THAT is an 800-lb. gorilla.

  18. Do the math by martissimo · · Score: 5, Informative

    the difference between that "reduced flat rate" and the 70 cents per 1000 listeners per song can really be quite huge (even to very small stations).

    lets say a station reaches 100 people on average and at 4 minutes per track averages 15 songs an hour. that's 360 songs a day, or 131,400 a year... at the other rate of 7 cents per 100 listeners it works out to a fee of $9,198 a year. to someone like this a flat rate of $500 seems like a pretty huge difference... heck this flat rate would come to almost half as much even if you only averaged 10 listeners (500 vs 918).

    too bad the flat rate is only good till congress acts on the pending legislation, because this deal would probably actually be fairly viable for quite a few webcasters

  19. Helms is not running for reelection by Brian_Ellenberger · · Score: 5, Informative

    Someone mentioned this before, but he got modded to 0 for some reason. Sen Helms is not running for reelection. His term is up in January. There is no "shakedown".

  20. Do people really think $500/yr is onerous? by swillden · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The legislation that Helms blocked would have charged small webcasters a fee that, frankly, seems pretty trivial. If your margins are so thin that $500 per year makes the difference between making money or losing it, well, what you're running is not a business, it's a hobby. And, for that matter, I can easily see even hobbyists being willing to pay that much money. Heck, it's going to cost them more than that just for the data connection capable of supporting a half-dozen streams.

    Now, I think small webcasters who broadcast their own material have a legitimate beef if the bill requires them to pay the RIAA, but for webcasters who are broadcasting a significant amount of RIAA music, then, frankly, it seems like a pretty decent deal.

    I also think the artists have a legitimate beef, because practically none of this money will make it back to them. Since there's no accounting for individual songs required, there's no way to decided how much of the money should go to which artist. To record labels, that means the artists get none of it.

    In summary, there seem to be problems with the way this is being done, but they're the same problems that exist with the Audio CD-R taxes -- the money goes to the Established Labels, regardless of what music is actually webcasted/copied, and the artists don't get any of it. But the amount of money is so trivial that I can't see it causing any real problems, even for semi-serious hobbyists.

    --
    Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
  21. Disagree by nugneant · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I work in a large CD store on the East Coast (Which one? I'll give you a hint, we've been financially fucked ever since the late 1990s, only partially due to P2P, more due to some really stupid decisions made out in California [that's another hint]). This gives me a unique opportunity to get a mildly decent idea of what people are buying - there's an almost representative sample of college kids, ten year olds, minivan moms, old fogies, hippie burnouts, and Dr. Joe Average in his SUV. Granted, classical music is not the largest seller in this store. But the people who buy classical music buy in BULK. It's not uncommon for one customer to slap down three Benjamins (that's $300 for those of you not 'hip' to my street slang) at a time for his latest classical bonaza. And several "artists" (Charlotte Church, Bocelli, Sarah Vaughn, Diana Krall) have reguarly placed in the top 25 sellers for the store - during weeks when Dave Matthews, the Red Hot Chili Peppers, and other mainstream artists came out with new releases. Granted, I'm not a fan of any of these artists (and Ms. Krall is slightly more in the jazz/vocals realm) - but what's important is that these people are selling in big numbers, which means SOMEONE out there is buying the stuff. To say that "people don't like classical music nowadays" is a rather ignorant statement to make. One of the reasons why classical doesn't often make it to the charts is that, let's take an example... Beethoven's 9th symphony. Would you like the Berlin Philharmonic, the Vienna Philharmonic, the London Symphony, the New York Philharmonic, the Ensemb-- do you understand my point? There's a wealth of different versions to choose from, and so the already merely-moderate consumer base is spread even thinner.

    Granted, classical isn't usually that popular with the under-30 crowd (generalization). But it's been constantly popular with the elderly for the past three or four generations - and those aren't the same elderly, because OLD PEOPLE DIE. However, new ones are always cropping up to take their place. You can usually tell them by the Oldsmobiles with the stuffed animals in the back.

  22. Re:What a genuinely interesting dilemma. QWZX by Fig,+formerly+A.C. · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Nice bigotry, dude. But I'll bet you consider yourself a "compassionate liberal". Typical liberal. Believes yourself to be oh-so-open minded and tolerant. Which is true: about things YOU like. About things you don't agree with, you turn into the worst hate-filled bigot. But YOUR bigotry is justified, right? Because the people YOU hate are "wrong", right?

    I think the difference is that Quarex has never tried to forbid the "churchies" from listening to their music, but the churchies have a history of wanting to censor things that they find objectionable.

    Ironically, the last parts of your post did describe the attitude of organized religion, though.

    --
    Murphy was an optimist.