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Postmodern Computer Science
gnat writes "Two New Zealand computer scientists have a paper accepted for OOPSLA called Notes on Postmodern Programming, which identifies shortcomings in traditional views of computer science. With a section on the difference between "The Matrix" and the net, a bulleted list of new approaches called "We're All Devo", and a section called "Messy is Good" consisting of nothing but a scan of a hand-drawn diagram, this is not your father's computer science paper. It's thought-provoking stuff, though. And you know they did their homework--they cite Larry Wall's Postmodern Perl talk."
If anyone is interested in an extension of this theory (which begins by stating that humans are destined to give birth to computers as the next sentient race, and segues into an attack on the baby boomer culture), I do encourage them to check out Boomeritis. The theories within it are rather intriguing, though the layout / writing style is nowhere near as 'hyperactive' as this article.
This paper just seems very timely. As someone who is just about finished undergoing the quintessential undergrad experience in CS I think this paper hits a lot of nail square on their heads. Too many schools are hung up on the formal side of things without ever tying them back to the actual root of everything which is programming and this cannot be denied. And the rest of the schools are too busy teaching just programming to stop and discuss the formality of the process.
Anyone out there find a school which strikes this balance in the undergrad??
"Unlike most of you, I am not a nut." - Homer J. Simpson
I think post modernism is by far one of the most interesting ideas, and in a lot of ways like things computer geeks like, you know recursion and all that (Read Godel Escher Bach).
:P
You could say that the basis of post-modernism is "self-reference and irreverence". Basically looking inward, and realizing the absurdity of it. Obviously it has a lot of appeal to a cynical bastard such as myself
I mean, the idea on its face is absurd. How can something be "post-modern" Wouldn't the newly post-modern become modern, and the old modern simply old? (it's a bit more complex then this, as Modernism was an attempt to break from "classicalism" in the middle of the century. To build great new things. Post-modernism basically gives up on the great new things and says "fuck it")
Also the site seems to be slashdotted.
Lonely?
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And you know they did their homework--they cite Larry Wall's Postmodern Perl talk.
Ugh... that was far from being the best thing (or even one of the best things) Larry ever wrote.
The ideas are interesting by themselves, linking to other's work isn't much a validation in itself.
A message from the system administrator: 'I've upped my priority. Now up yours.'
In other words challenge the programming paradigms if you have a better approach in mind and can demonstrate it work at least in an academic experiment. Otherwise: challenge my ass.
Your pizza just the way you ought to have it.
OK. So I didn't read the paper... Perhaps it's great but more than likely it's another one of those pointless academic super high level treaties on software construction that really don't help anyone write better software.
Well good thing your complete ignorance of the paper's contents didn't stop you from putting forth an opinion on its value.
But then, with postmodernism, you can't really tell the hoaxes from the honest nonsense.
Hmm, I actually think this is part of the point of postmodernism. Postmodernism goes beyond just recognizing that truth is inscrutable and rejecting absolutism of ethics, aesthetics, and knowledge, and embraces the subjectivity of everything. In fact, some postmodernists seem to think that knowledge and reality are DEFINED by language games, i.e. who spins the best bullshit (apparently this derives from Wittgenstein).
So you see, the nonsense and the hoaxes aren't truly discernible to the postmodernist, and a true postmodernist would likely reject the very idea that a hoax is a meaningful concept. Anyway, I find it all to reek of bullshit after spending 4 years in college debating with my fellow students who majored in subjects like Social Studies (which included a heavy dose of postmodern theory) about whether these concepts were meaningful.
My general conclusion is that concepts that do not lead us any closer to understanding or interacting with the world in a productive manner and that lead to liberal arts students becoming unshaven, unshowered nihilists are just as bad as things that lead computer science students to become unshaven, unshowered Counter Strike addicts or code monkeys.
Actually, if you do a little research, it has been experimentally proven that "post-modern" language, if that is what you want to call it, and non-sense are indistinguishable to proponents of post-modernism. I kid you not. Some years ago a "paper" was generated using a computer programmed to plug in p-m catch phrases. The piece was published, and IIRC, was critically approved of among the sacrosanct priesthood of P-M. The last I heard there were still some proponents who were certain the "computer generated" aspect was a hoax.
However, this being the case, it is certainly reasonable to argue that drivel and post-modernist language are indistinguishable to those of us who do not pretend to understand the WTH post-modernists are purveying. Following that line further along, since neither adovcates nor critics of P-M can distinguish between drivel and P-M, it apears that P-M and drivel are synonymous.
Enjoy,
------ The only greater hazard to your liberty than n politicians is n+1 politicians.
here is an amusing postmodernist essay generator.
If a job's not worth doing, it's not worth doing right.
Postmodernism is a license to criticize without being held to the rigorous requirements of critical throught. Self consistency is not one of its strong points, at least by usual standards. Just to illustrate this point, the authors' cite Wittgenstein's Tractatus Logico-Philosphicus, and its famous initial assertion (Die Welt ist alles was der Fall ist. - "The world is all that is the case.") Postmodern critics like to avoid the use of abstraction, tending to rely on facts to establish contradictions. The authors' literal reading of the first assertion is fully consitient with postmodern criticism. Of course the rest of the Tractatus has a lot of abstractions in it, which puts it about as far from postmodern as you can get. And as "everybody" knows the Tractatus is the philosophical manifesto for databases, logic programming, UML, .... (which are about abstractions too.) Hmmmm.
Postmoderism tends to irk those who attempt to read it and apply purely "modernist" notions of criticism. At least it irks me. There is a rather well developed theory of postmodern criticism, which the authors of this paper try to explicate (terms like "antitotalizing" etc), examplified, e.g., in the writings of Jacques Derida and many others. This is usually where the academic starts - by aligning their field of study with the concepts of postmodern criticism. This is a small industry and this paper is of that ilk. The best that can be said about postmodernism, IMHO, is that it's like brainstorming written down on paper. It's usually thought provoking. Postmodernist thinking is like a written form of a stream of conscious -- only less well organized! ;)
As an aside, when someone asks whatever became of all the nominal Marxists in this world? They all became postmodernist! They had to become something - given that their theory and all of its incarnations are failures. Marxism was the great 19th century critique of capitalism; it was successful so long as you didn't mind some nastiness on the road to Utopia. (Turns out, people *did* mind.) For a large portion of the political landscape both here in the US and around the world, the felt need to criticize the capitalist and capitalism has *not* diminished. Postmodern literary criticism fulfills that role nicely.
But these authors do make a point. Why do you need to learn programming if the reality is that you can purchase the answer? Or look it up for free. I think programming is good for the soul, but some might dispute that motive. Or that to even have the software given to you?? What would be the point of learning to program? Best to leave it to the highly productive few who are best able to do it. With the Internet, the answers are all there for the taking. Don't need nearly as much in the way of university faculty as you might have thought.
I sympathize with the authors' point of view because in my day job I profess computer science for a living. After 34 years of programming (hardly any of it in teaching, but with teaching experience separated by over two decades) I can see a pretty substantive material change in attitude.
However, to claim that all of computer science is only about programming -- this is not quite a postmodernist sentiment!
This paper is about 3 microns away from justifying plagarism and copyright theft under the guise of postmodernism. I love it.
Here's what I came away with in this paper; I'll annotate the good parts with a +, and the bad parts with a -.
This paper proposes that there really isnt any point to enforcing a rigid set of rules that forces each of us to reinvent the wheel (-) whenever we want to do something constructive (+) . However, that ideas a few caveats, namely that by allowing (or encouraging) people to simply 'glom off' the work of others, we deprive them of the experience and perspective that can only BE gained by reinventing the wheel (-)... Here's a cute example. About 7 years ago, I took a class in x86 assembly. Our instructor was pretty hardcore -- Was around even before punch-cards. The manner in which he taught the class was to introduce us to the most minimal set of tools possible, and force us to combine these tools in a way which allowed us to do more things (+) --For example, the MUL instruction in x86 (simple multiply) wasn't revealed to us until Week 4 -- Before then, we had to write our own routine to perform multiplication. To me, this is how it should be. In order to appreciate the car, at SOME point you must first reinvent the wheel and learn what thats like.
This paper puts forth the notion that its simply embracing the evolution of our science to take pre-existing forms, and adapt them for our own uses. In a nutshell, the whole concept of open source (+) . That having vast libraries of code to draw from, and then NOT doing so, is a terrible misuse of resources. After all, if we were to build an automobile, we wouldn't start off by cracking open a book on Chemistry to learn about electron exchange between atoms. We don't crack open a book on Newtonian physics, either, to learn why F=Ma. Chemistry and Newtonian physics can be thought of as the "legacy code" of manufacturing and construction, similar to all the standard tenets of programming. Why write new code when theres something 99% similar to it out there already, that you can simply adopt, modify, and re-release? (+)
I feel better about writing code now, after reading this paper. I had always felt a wee bit guilty about pilfering around in other people's code for a solution to a particular task, feeling that somehow I sucked that much more since I couldn't come up with my own solution, from scratch. This paper allowed me to realize that chances are, the person who I'm "cheating off of" probably did the same thing to someone else, to prepare his own.
Cheers,
Bowie J. Poag