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Cellphones On Airplanes
Bonker writes "According to this USAToday article two companies, AirCell, and Verizon, are developing technology to let airline passengers safely use cellphones while in flight. The system would block frequencies normally used by cellphones and force cell customers to 'roam' on the new network. Saftey concerns aside, I thought that a plane cabin was the one place I would never have to deal with people who won't quit talking on the phone."
Presumably this also means that if you're using their "cell", they can charge you what they like. I can see their motivation ...
Meep meep
Planes have had cell phones built right into the seats for quite some time now.
-- Thou hast strayed far from the path of the Avatar.
This proposed systems would probably be controllable from the cockpit as well, and could easily make any cell phone on the plane inoperable. Maybe that is what the control oriented security freaks want, but I think it has many dangers.
Out east I'm note sure, but when a plane is at cruising altitude you are not going to get a standard cell tower signal, I'm sure it would be the old "only after 10,000 feet" rule for the phones on planes as well.
I have yet to figure out why the airlines are so "scared" of electronics, if the RF output of my Visor or some kids GameBoy is enough to bring the plane down there is a serious problem, who needs a box cutter...."I have a GameBoy and I'm not afraid to use it!"
This is not the sig line you are looking for... -- Old Jedi Sig Line Trick
I can see Cell Phones turning into the same sort of thing that smoking becoming.
:)
Can't smoke on the plane, can't smoke in some restaurants (not that I'm complaining). I think they should establish the same rules, considering joe user isn't curtious enough to NOT talk on the phone at "place public location here".
Can't smoke on the plane, shouldn't talk on a cellphone on the plane. It's an invation of my person space!
R4NT.com - A great many people think they are thinking when they are merely rearranging their prejudices.
Even people that use those headsets with the phone tend to talk louder than a 2nd grader running around on the playground.
There are just a few places where cell phones are inapropriate, these would be places where you are crowded in with a group of people for a long duration of time, in lines at checkout counters, funerals, and on dates. Chances are, you are not important enough to have to talk on the phone during a funeral. And you're sister can wait an hour for the plane to land to hear about the cute guy sitting in 21-b.
Xaotik Designs
What is there to "deal" with about people talking on phones? Do you also have to "deal" with people talking to the person next to them?
I agree. I can understand cell phones being a problem when they're distracting someone from driving or being used during a movie or concert. But if you're at a resturant, the mall, in a plane, train, bus, etc. where it is considered acceptable to carry on a conversation with the person(s) next to you, there is no reason you shouldn't be able to talk into a phone.
I'm personally sick of this argument that people talk louder or make profane/personal comments into cell phones. Not everyone does and quite a few people at resturants who have maybe had a bit too much to drink can be just as loud or make profane remarks to the other people in their party.
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DRM is like antifreeze, to the MPAA/RIAA it's sweet, to the consumers it's poison.
...and everything to do with money. The primary reason they don't want you using cel phones from the air is that the cel networks were never designed with this purpose in mind. The result is a HUGE capacity burden is placed on the network. In stead of a single cel phone using two or maybe three cel towers, suddenly you have one phone using a dozen to two dozen sites. It degrades performance and increases cost for proper and healthy network operation.
This the real reason they don't want you using cel phones from planes. It has NEVER had anything to do with plane safety!
I've never been able to get my phone to work with digital service from the air -- not reliably anyways -- only enough to initate a call and hear it ring. Analog service, on the other hand, I've used many times before. I have no idea why digital doesn't work.
I mean.. How is the flight crew going to tell the difference from an "ok" phone and a "bad" phone? Will they have to take your phone and check if it has some special certificate or what?
Beware: In C++, your friends can see your privates!
Well said.
I want to know where all these people are that can't use a phone without pissing everybody off. I live in Portland, Oregon. You can't throw a rock here without hitting 3 people with a cell phone. Yet, they are not a huge nuisance here. Occasionally a phone rings in a movie, that's usually taken care of pretty quick. I don't even have any stories about people being stupid with their phones at a movie. Restaraunts: no biggie. Lotsa ppl use their phones, there are not lotsa people raising their voices.
As a matter of fact, the only complaint I have about a cell phone user is an executive who likes to leave his phone on its loudest setting, and then the people who call him don't bother leaving a voice mail. Instead, they call again... and again... and again... In a cubicle environment, this is a no no. Is this a problem with him being a cell phone user? No, it's a problem with him being an executive. "My phone calls are important." Whatever.
So every time I hear these people getting upset, a big question mark appears over my head. Either people in Portland are far more polite with their phones than in some other areas (which is possible...) or the people posting all these anti-cell phone posts on Slashdot are exaggerating.
Bear in mind that I'm not challenging anybody's story, I just want to know why my experience is so different. If somebody can give me a good reason, then the next time I read somebody's "everybody who uses a cell phone is an ass" post my first instinct won't be to think "or you just need to grow a thicker skin."
Either I have unusually quiet friends, or the loudmouths are in the minority. It's just there's enough of the loudmouths to be noticable...
You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
I have used my (GSM) mobile phone many times aboard the high speed trains in France and Germany. These trains travel at 300km/h. Not a single dropped call! I did notice my battery drains a lot quicker when going that fast, even if I'm not on the phone. It is constantly busy signing off and on to different base stations.
Since the mobile phone system handles this scenario well, chances are it will work too at airline speeds.
Cell phones do work from airplanes. The issue is that the airlines want you to use their in flight phones and the various cell phone companies don't want you to be able to hit your home cell from a mile in the air, where chances are, you wouldn't have to pay roaming fees. They want to set up a situation where they have a captive consumer with no outside competition... they set up a deal with the airline that lets them charge the consumer $3 a minute... give the airline $1 and keep $2... or something along those lines.
This is not true. Only non-linear devices will cause harmonics.
:-)
Of course, it doesn't take much to make a nonlinear device - for example, corrosion on a metal to metal junction is sufficient.
Not only does these devices create harmonics, they also create intermodulation. This causes the sum and difference frequencies of all radio signals and all of their harmonics to appear in the spectrum. This is a common problem on repeater sites where multiple radio transmitters and receivers a co-located. It is also a problem on navy ships, where there may be in some cases dozens to hundreds of radios operating, and the salt air is especially good at causing corrosion.
I think any radio transmitter in the aircraft has some potential of causing problems. However, this, like any risk in life, needs to be quantified. After all, aircraft are already subject to interference from external signals. For example, some cable channels operate in the aircraft VHF navigations bands and have caused interference. The FCC has especially strict rules that cable companies must follow when they use those frequencies (which they pretty much all do these days).
Back when I used to fly private planes, I experienced interference with my navigation radios and my VHF AM communications radio when I used my 2 meter ham radio handi-talkie.
OTOH, when I used it in a glider I had no such problems, because there were zero electronic devices in the glider (sailplane for the purists)
The only good weather is bad weather.
On the other hand, having a long, loud conversation on a cell phone is disrespectful of other passengers. It says, "Not only are you not interesting enough to talk to, but you're so insignificant, I'm not going to feel any qualms about interrupting your ride by talking at the top of my voice."
Amen! This is the real problem with cell phones: people assume that the phone is the most important member of the party. Not just on airplanes, but everywhere. When I invite a group of friends to dinner, it's because I want to spend time with them, not with their cell phones (or mine). By answering that phone, you're promoting it over the people in your party. This is particularly rude if you're the host: "I invited you here to watch me talk on the phone, because I'm important." Reminds me of the Dilbert cartoon about the boss teaching himself to play the ukelele (or somesuch). If you're going to take the call (which you generally shouldn't, and Caller ID (included with all phones these days) can make the decision for you), at least excuse yourself from the table, so the rest of the party can continue their conversation.
Finally, somebody who gets it. My kingdom for mod points, and the ability to highlight passages along with the moderation!
Moderate drunk! It's more fun that way!
First, they tend to be a louder environment (i.e. outside) than they are when they use a phone at home. Thus, it's tougher to hear the sound coming out of the earpiece.
Two, our speaking volume levels are mainly determined by how well we can hear ourselves. Thus, if we can hear ourselves clearly, we don't talk louder (unless there's a special reason, such as we're trying to shout to someone a ways off).
Three - phones have a built-in feedback circuit that sends your own voice, from the mouthpiece, back to the earpiece, so you can hear yourself.
Therefore, in a noisy environment, you can't hear yourself as well as you'd expect, and so therefore will unconsciously talk louder.
That said, simply turning up the volume on your earpiece will make you speak softer again.
-T
Now, my experience with people who get annoyed by people talking on cells is thus; they are simply annoyed by people carrying on a conversation with another party that they cannot see/hear. Perhaps it looks unnatural seeing someone going about their business talking to noone, but the personal feelings of the annoyed are, nonetheless, irrational.
So, in conclusion, I think some people just need to grow a thicker skin, and quit worrying about what other people are doing.
Just my experience/opinion, YMMV.
Sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken - Tyler Durden
For respect to the other passengers, they should not be allowed to do it.
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Airphones have largely been very successful. They aren't quite as expensive as people here have said. However Airlines care most about business passengers, and letting them continue cell phone use would make flying that much more convenient for them. Technically there is no reason why current cell phones don'ty work on planes. Interferring with flight electronics is not a big problem. Frequencies are far enough enough apart that they won't clash with communications, and frankly if other avionics were fickle enough to have problems with cell phones, we would have planes dropping from the sky. Only the fact that Planes fly at 30,000 feet pretty far from the towers, and cross multiple towers simultaneously cause problems. The end result is that QOS is far from guaranteed. This technology likely works by placing a tower or active repeater within the plane. By being the closest tower the plane will grab all the traffic. I am not sure if they will try and extract a roaming charge for this, or if they believe this will increase ticket sales enough to cover the service. Personally I usually keep my phone on and on vibate all the time. I have recieved calls (I have never actually answered though) and generally get a signal when I fly, which is often. This will certainly be a boon on the short Boston New York Washington Florida, East corridor flights that business people crowd.
As for the rudeness of people talking talking on cell-phones, well there is nothing that we can do. Get used to it. I do think that stewardesses should force people to put their phones on vibrate, frankly I never use my ringer anyway.
With all the streaming babies, annoying rugrats, fat people, drunks, smelly people, people with tons of carryons and jerks who kick seats, someone talking on a cell-phone doesn't seem so bad.
Let me start by saying I'm a private pilot, and of course the radios we use in general aviation planes aren't of the same caliber as those used in jetliners. However (for obvious reasons) they do use the same frequencies.
:).
I had just completed a preflight and ran a radio check on the ground at my small airport. Nobody responded, but I didn't find that unusual, since there are many times there's no traffic in the area and the UNICOM (local airport radio station) is unmanned. Anyway, I announced my takeoff just in case somebody didn't feel like responding to my radio check and took off.
After making a few touch-and-go landings I saw there were others in the pattern, but I wasn't hearing any radio transmissions -- just static. A thought occurred to me and I pulled out my cell phone. Sure enough, I'd forgotten to turn it off. I wasn't receiving calls or anything, but it was still on 'the network'. I shut it off, and the traffic chatter started immediately.
No, it is most definitely a safety issue. I've heard of airliner communication being cut off in an entire airport's controlled airspace because some lady was telling her son that she was going to be landing soon. Needless to say, they were waiting for her when she deplaned
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Listening to people yabber on the phone is much more annoying than having normal conversation around you. People tend to talk much louder when on the telephone -- go into any coffee shop and see for yourself. Their voice is adjusted for the person on the other end of the line, rather than for those in the room. Aside from that, having to deal with non-stop ringing throughout the cabin would be just as bad. Its bad enough when you land, and have to put up with everyone's cell phone going off. An entire flight of that would be maddening.
As you can tell, I despise cell phones. I am waiting for personal cell interference devices that block cell signals within some radius. I know that some have been developed for places like theaters, but it would be wonderful if there were portable versions.