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Returning to School for a Better Degree?

Posted by ryuzaki0 on from the disillusioned-with-the-current-degree dept.

HerbieTMac asks: "I graduated a few years ago (AB '00) from a decent school. Having worked my myself quite nearly to death, I am now the proud owner of two bachelor's degrees in Economics and Public Policy. I also have put in a couple of years working as a Computer Science TA for the masters program. Being older and arguably wiser, I find that I don't really like where I am going and instead want to pursue a PhD in physics. The problem is that most PhD programs require an undergraduate degree in physics first. Or at least a significant amount of classwork in the field. Most of my physics knowledge has come from self-study and bumming class notes from friends. I'd love to go back to school and do the work for the AB but most schools won't accept applications for a second (in my case third) bachelor's degree. Has anyone else decided that they really didn't want to work with the first degree? How did you go about convincing a school that you are a good bet? Or even to let you do some preparatory course work?"

13 of 60 comments (clear)

  1. Older and wiser? by xyzzy · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I really hate to say this, but if you are legitimately older and wiser, you'd reconsider the PhD in Physics, unless you are REALLY in love with the field.

    In ~15 years in the computer biz, I have worked with numerous Physics PhDs who have gotten OUT of the field due to lack of jobs (since we stopped doing bombs in the 80s), lack of research funding, and lack of ability to make progress in the field.

    Again, I don't want to disuade you if you are really in love with the field. But remember, a PhD is a 4-8 year commitment, and you better know where you are going before you jump.

    I think the Economics and Public Policy gig, combined with a knowledge of computers (which I am assuming from your /. posting) is a hot combo, personally!

    1. Re:Older and wiser? by Chilles · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Your data set is screwed, all physics PhD's you meet have gotten out of the field already and therefore where not motivated enough or able enough to find a job in the physics field (or they felt the lure of IT money).
      If this guy is in love with the field he should go for it, physics needs motivated people, most physics students I know (myself included) get out of the field because they are unable to continually perform at the high intellectual level physics requires of them. To actually make a meaningfull contribution to physics these days you need to be one intelligent single minded dedicated person, It's just too damn hard for the rest of us.
      I would advice the original poster to honestly test his knowledge of physics and mathematics when compared to that of the physics bachelors/masters he knows. If he can convince his friends (who should be very sceptical if they take their own hard work serious) that he is at least at bachelor level in physics he should be able to convince a university.

    2. Re:Older and wiser? by rw2 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Your data set is screwed, all physics PhD's you meet have gotten out of the field already and therefore where not motivated enough or able enough to find a job in the physics field (or they felt the lure of IT money).

      So how is his dataset screwed. All he said was that people were leaving it. The most plausible reason being one you yourself mention "the lure of IT money"

      The fact of the matter is that there are far more physicists graduating than there are physics jobs. Since he already has an Econ degree, I'll not bother enumerating what the does to physics salaries.

      If you love it, go into it. Be prepared not only for the educational cost, but the fact that you will likely be working for not much money for many years after you get your degree and that many physics positions that are available are as term employees and that even the above average will go through several terms before getting a 'real' job.

      Also be aware that physics is in many respects a government gig, and the government has dropped the physics budget every year for the last decade.

  2. What a mess by ivanandre · · Score: 4, Insightful

    If you want to do a PhD in physics, believe me, you WANT to get an underdraduate title first... after all, physics is hard!

  3. Try this... by foistboinder · · Score: 3, Informative

    Rather than trying to get an undergraduate degree, just take the physics and math courses that an undergraduate would take. Find out from a graduate program what they think are the most important courses. FWIW, I knew a guy with a BA in English who eventually got a PHD in physics.

    --
    Yet Another Web Site
  4. My wife changed direction...... by jsimon12 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    My wife went to school wanting to do Anthropology (Primatology to be specific, the whole Jane Goodale thing), well after earning a BA in that she decided it really wasn't for her and she wanted to get a MFA (Masters of Fine Arts, the highest you can get in Art, basically a PhD for artists) so she could teach at the college level. Well they require all sorts of odd prequistes and such to get into those programs without you being a special stupid (stupid stuff like 2D design and art history 101). Well my wife has been an artist on the side for years and is actually ver accomplished, and sells pieces and has been in a couple shows. So in lieu of taking a bunch of classes she doesn't need she went and talked to the Dean of that department and the people in charge of admissions and showed them her work and explained herself and they waved the requirements.

    From what I have seen the best thing you can do is talk to the people in charge, don't talk to the low level consuler types they will simply point at the rules book. If you can prove yourself and prove you know what you are doing and that you have direction and drive and are willing to work hard most of the people in charge will let you wave stupid things. So in other words talk to people.

  5. A tough choice by shoppa · · Score: 4, Informative
    You would truly struggle if you started physics grad school without a very thorough physics and appropriate math background. Typical first-year grad school in physics would have Jackson-level Electrodynamics, some kind of quantum physics, etc. Most physics grad programs offer a "mathematical methods" class to get those who are coming in with a good physics background but maybe a weak physics background up to speed; you'll be needing a lot more than that.

    Undoubtedly your undergraduate math classes (probably first-year calculus and several statistics classes, given your undergrad degrees) were sufficient for your current degrees, but they just aren't enough for graduate-level physics.

  6. Take time to make the right decision. by cybermace5 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Sounds like you have a little difficulty determining what you really want.

    Did it ever occur to you, while working toward you other two degrees, that it wasn't what you wanted to do? You could have switched majors and been much further ahead then where you are now, which is probably in debt and with two essentially worthless (for what you want to do) degrees.

    I suggest you pay more attention to what you're doing this time. Maybe find a way to work with actual physicists and determine if you like it.

    Whatever, it's just another "O Great Oracle of Ask Slashdot, guide me in my everyday life choices!" question.

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    ...
  7. IU. by eclectric · · Score: 3, Interesting

    indiana university doesn't put any restrictions on how many undergrad degrees you have. You might have to re-take basic coursework because classes only count for 10 years, but that's to be expected. You could always test out of those classes.

    I'm going back for a second degree, but that's not because I didn't like the first.

  8. Try a state university. by Eric+Green · · Score: 3, Insightful
    Middle-tier state universities (as vs. top-tier universities) typically don't care whether this is your second or fiftieth undergraduate degree. They get funded by the state based on how many bodies they have filling chairs, so most of them will accept you regardless as long as your transcript shows that you had at least a 2.5 GPA at your last university. Though I'll note that in many cases it's just as easy to get into a Master's degree program as it is to get another bachelor's degree at these universities (though you have to take the GRE and have a 3.0 GPA in most cases). For example, at the university I graduated from, many of the folks going for a MS in Computer Science had degrees in a wide variety of subjects. My TA when I was a freshman had an undergraduate degree in general studies!

    Eric Lee Green BadTux

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    Send mail here if you want to reach me.
  9. Dude, life in general sucks! by ecloud · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Nothing is what it seems. Most experiences are disappointing. Coding the same thing more than once is a bore; and each time, when you're finished the company dies and takes their proprietary software down with them, and you have nothing except the money you probably already spent, and your hard work never sees the light of day, or is properly rewarded if it does.

    Probably the best advice is if you have food on the table and a roof with a computer and a 'net connection under it, be happy; and if you like coding so much, get your thrills from releasing open source. A job is generally just a job - to support your habits.

    Maybe if you had an advanced degree you could work in a cool research lab, but otherwise the only real opportunities will be those you create for yourself.

  10. What kind of physics? by f97tosc · · Score: 4, Informative

    Do you want to go to a theoretical or applied branch?

    If you want to do hard-core theoretical physics you need to be extraordinary intelligent and hard-working to do even a minor contribution to the field. Of course, it you are really passionate about it you will be rewarded just by getting a better understanding about the world we live in.

    If you want to do some applied physics (say material science or space propulsion) the prospects are much better to do a serious contribution, especially if you are smart, hard-working and lucky.

    Tor (physics BS/MS now in consulting)

  11. why here? by ameoba · · Score: 4, Informative

    By turning to Ask Slashdot you're missing the most obvious place to get information, the admissions office and advisors at the school(s) you want to go to. Having recently looked at grad schools, many schools (and even departments inside of them) have wildly differing requirements. A few emails to grad-info@bigstate.edu will probably get you a lot more useful, relevant, accurate information than 100 posts here.

    My $0.02 : Find a not-entirely-prestigious school that will let you into their MS program and let you make up the undergrad classes that you're missing out on (could probably bust them out in a year or so) and from there transver into the Really Good School to finish up the PhD. That way, you not only make up the missing undergrad work quickly, you also end up with a MS degree at the halfway point, giving you an advanced degree to fall-back on if you decide to not go on to the PhD.

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