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Toyota to Move to All Hybrid Vehicles By 2012
ftumph writes "Toyota has announced that
all their vehicles will be gas-electric hybrids by 2012. The plan is to eliminate the current $3,000 per vehicle additional cost for hybrid engines through mass production."
Real cool
They also have to figure out how to deliver and store the hydrogen in the cars themselves. Hydrogen gas is incredibly unstable and in an accident, if the canister holing the gas ruptures, there will be an explosion. Currently, fuel cell vehicles, use technology that pulls hydrogen from ethanol (or some other similar compound including std 93 octane) but that is only marginally more efficient than burning it.
It is like fusion, they know how to get the reaction going but have yet to develop a way to feed it without killing the reaction.
Who are you? The new #2 Who is #1? You are #617565. I am not a number, I am a free man! Muhahaha.
I own a Prius, and it actually has quite a bit of power. Not a sportscar, but substantially more power than my other car, a Toyota Echo. The continuous transmission helps. Rides nice, and I get just over 47 MPG.
As an Insight owner, I try to keep up with this stuff. Turns out Toyota has retracted that promise, saying that there was a "misinterpretation" on the Japanese end.
Can't find the link, but here's the WSJ article re: same:
Toyota Still Plans to Sell 300,000 Hybrid Vehicles a Year By 2005
Friday October 25, 5:19 pm ET
By Norihiko Shirouzu, Staff Reporter of The Wall Street Journal
DETROIT -- Toyota Motor Corp. reaffirmed it aims to sell a total of 300, 000 super-efficient, electric-gasoline hybrid vehicles a year by 2005.
Toyota's reaffirmation came in response to a news report earlier this week that said the auto maker plans to use hybrid engines in all vehicles by 2012 to increase fuel efficiency and reduce tailpipe emissions. The report also said Toyota won't sell 300,000 hybrids annually until 2007.
Kevin Webber, a Toyota spokesman in Ann Arbor, Mich., said the report was " inaccurate," which he said stemmed from a "misinterpretation" of comments in Japanese made by a Toyota executive.
Mr. Webber said it is "technically infeasible" to use hybrid systems in all vehicles Toyota sells around the world in 10 years. He said Toyota continues to aim to sell 300,000 hybrids a year by about 2005.
Last month, Toyota's president Fujio Cho said the No. 1 Japanese auto maker will expand its lineup of gasoline-electric hybrid vehicles into larger vehicles, such as midsized sport-utility vehicles and minivans, as it tries to sell a total of 300,000 hybrids a year by 2005.
Cho said Toyota "will expand hybrid systems into an array of models, including larger vehicles."
Already, Toyota recently has begun selling in Japan a hybrid minivan called the Estima. In the U.S., Toyota currently sells only one hybrid, the small Prius car, while in Japan its lineup includes the Prius and a Crown luxury car equipped with a so-called "mild" hybrid system, in addition to the Estima.
-Norihiko Shirouzu, The Wall Street Journal
You can have any level of power output you'd like within the normal range of vehicles. For any desired level, a hybrid will consume quite a lot less fuel than an ordinary vehicle.
Trust the Computer. The Computer is your friend.
Huh?
These vehicles use gasoline just like ordinary cars. It's just that the engine output is not used directly to drive the car, but to run a generator which in turn runs an electric engine. The advantage is that you can have a smaller and more efficient engine for the same power output at the wheels.
Trust the Computer. The Computer is your friend.
Wankel engines have historically been high polluting engines, more akin to two-stroke engines because of the design. IMO moving away from internal combustion completely is where we have to aim.
I really can't wait to see the the air car come out!
Now that's going to be exciting. I highly recommend reading the site. Also if I read the FAQ correctly it says that the vehicles will cost between $8000 and $10,000.
An interesting fact is that the air that comes out of the Air Car is cleaner that when it entered the car. Not only is it zero pollution, but it cleans the air!
"It's a tarp!" -- Dyslexic Admiral Ackbar
Actually Electric powered or hybrid cars are *more* suitable for some of a sports car's duties, most notably fast off the line performance, for the same reasons that they are efficient; low end torque. Check out the following wired article for a better description / examples of $20 -$30k electric cars that go 0-60 in 4 seconds! http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/7.03/drag.html
It's not the size of your .sig that matters, it's how you use it.
As far as I know, the batteries are still not available as a replacement part and are estimated to cost between 4k-6kusd (www.cartalk.com). Most electric cars need a full battery replacement between 3-6years depending on usage.
On a hybrid the performance and mileage will degrade over the years without this replacement part. This will limit the life of the car and definitely reduce it's value to a second owner.
They are interesting but need to have replaceable batteries. A TDI engine instead of a gasoline engine would also help.
Actually hybrids can be a good thing for those who're looking for acceleration as electric motors have much better torque curve (reaches maximum torque right from the start) which is more important for acceleration. You'd be surprised how well Prius or Insight accelerates.
the hybrid cars of today require you to change the batteries every 3 yrs and
it costs $6000-7000 to replace them and they are not as powerful now. But maybe
all this will change by 2012.
Where'd you get that information?? Honda is giving an 8-year 80K mile warranty on its Hybrid batteries. Their claim is replacement at around 10 years, and about $1000 at today's prices ($1K price told to me by a Honda dealer), which will probably come down as the first hybrids need their replacements.
The reason why diesels aren't popular in the US today is the fact that current Diesel #2 fuel is too full of sulphur compounds, which will quickly destroy the fuel delivery and exhaust emission controls found on European diesel-powered automobiles.
Since the EPA will require drastic reductions of such compounds in a few years, by then we could see the PD130 and PD150 engines found on European-market Golfs and Passats show up on the US market. Can you imagine a diesel-electric hybrid powertrain on a VW Golf getting fuel mileage that would make the diesel-powered VW Lupo seem like a fuel-guzzler in comparison? It could happen as early as 2006.
You found out wrong. The Prius battery is warranteed for 8 years or 100,000 miles. If the warranty covers it for that long, the actual lifetime is likely to be longer than that.
FUD!
The Toyota Prius has a 8 year/100,000mile warranty on the hybrid components of the Prius in the US (which include the battery). (A new battery pack currently costs about US$4950, although individual bad cells can be replaced and not just the entire pack... Plus, with higher production, the battery costs will come down. (Toyota has 2 hybrid cars, a minivan, and a bus in Japan at the moment.)) There's a Prius taxi in Vancouver (Canada) that has over 284,000 km. on his Prius (24/7 usage), and hasn't had any battery trouble or had to replace the battery...
Also, Honda has an 8 year/80,000mile warranty on the battery in the US on both the Insight and the Civic Hybrid.
-mrv
I'm still waiting for the (supposedly 2004 MY) hybrid Ford Escape (small SUV). http://www.hybridford.com/index.asp
v e/highw ay1/la-hy-green16oct16001439,0,5003799.story?coll= la%2Dclass%2Dautos%2Dhighway1 ...."
Also I'll note this prototype sportscar by Honda/Acura, show at the Tokyo Motor Show:
http://www.latimes.com/classified/automoti
".... The concept car used a 300-horsepower V-6 coupled with a 100-horsepower electric motor to give it the performance of a 400-horsepower muscle car with excellent fuel economy.
-mrv
But, I find that most of a car's noise does not come from the engine in the first place. I'm sure a brand new car has all the seals in tack and is sound-tight but how silent will this car be after 50,000 miles? How much wind-noise is there now? How many spot welds will fail and cause the panels to flex in the future?
When I worked in the car industry (1991-2000) I know that car were designed to last 10 years/100,000 miles. Everything from engine wear to paint thickness was taken into account. The law also states that parts must be supplied for 10 years after the final production car leaves the line. Now, rust and mechanical failure normally end a car's life, so how long is the life expectancy on a car like this that has less engine wear?
This post contains benzene, nitrosamines, formaldehyde and hydrogen cyanide.
Negatory, good buddy. Truckers pay enormous taxes on diesel, much more than we do. Run a google search on 'truckers diesel taxes' for some relevant links.
At any rate, your idea for better rails is a good one, but it has flaws. For instance, it's very possible that more rails wouldn't affect the amount of big rigs on the road. Trucks are still needed to get goods to the warehouse, unless you have a rail system that goes *everywhere*. That would eliminate the efficiency of a rail system.
Less trucks on the road would be safer, but at the moment there's really no way around it.
Attention deficit disorder is a complicated issue, spanning several major... HEY LET'S GO RIDE BIKES!
My Toyota Prius isn't a truck, nor does it have a V8 engine, but... ABS and traction control standard.
Plenty of speed (top speed is just over 100MPH, but that's illegal in most of the US), no problem on hills (it eats it up - plenty of reports of Prius going over the Grapevine or up Mt. Washington), plenty of passing power (electric motor for instant-assist), lots of fun to drive, tight turning radius, and wonderful brakes (considered "grabby" by those who haven't driven one before). it matches my personality.
With the exception of hauling and towing capacity, the Prius can do all that you ask of a truck. You can always record the sound of a V8 engine and play it on the standard cassette deck... and this from a family car (compact).
-mrv
Nope, sorry. I'm afraid heavy trucks are not the reason for the need of road upkeep.
Consider all the roads out there where trucks are forbidden, they still need regular maintenance and repairs with about the same regularity as major highways that carry trucks.
The fact is that road denegration is mostly due to weather and environmental changes. The ground settles differently (usually based on nearby development) and cracks appear. Trees grow and their roots crack streets. The temperature changes, the road expands and contracts, and cracks appear. These cracks fill with water and potholes appear. That's just the way it is, and without breakthroughs in paving technology (like tarmac), maintenance costs will still be high.
As for using rail shipments, that's a fine idea, and I believe that about as much tonnage is shipped by rail these days as by trucks. The trouble is that with rail you can seldom get there from here. And too, you have to maintain rail lines (recall the Amtrak crash in Maryland this summer due to overheated poorly mainained track?).
I hate like driving with trucks as much as the next guy, and there's probably a size of truck that ballances environmental, safety, and shipping concerns which has yet to be found; but in the meantime trucks are often the best (if not only) way to efficiently transmit goods.
credo quia absurdum
The average truck pays about $20,000 (depending on state) in taxes every year. I know because my father-in-law has a concrete business and operates a few trucks.
Mmmm.. Donuts
I checked into getting a Prius a while back. I'm not sure if much of anything has changed. But, one thing that I did like that they offered was maintenance guarantees.
If I'm out in the middle of Idaho and the car breaks down, no local mechanic is going to know how to fix the damned thing. One of the selling points about the Prius was that Toyota would fly someone out to my location (at their expense) and fix it. So I could virtually roam anywhere.
If they want to do a complete switch-over are they going to provide this type of service for all their vehicles? Most likely not, especially if they are going to mass produce the vehicles and distribute like they do with their current non-hybrids. If they did have this same guarantee, that would be great. I'm thinking that they might have to train the Dealership mechanics and if you get stuck out somewhere you have to tow it to the nearest dealer. That's inconvenient. What would be best, in my opinion, is to offer a class to train independent mechanics (not affiliated with the dealership) on how to fix the hybrid vehicles when they break down. This would resolve some of the inconvenience issues.
Being an American, born and true, the part of your post that bothers me the most is the slam that (paraphrase) "Only a TRUE American would buy a piece of shit, gas guzzling, below sub-par performance on the world stage, cheaply made, heavy, highly inefficient engine, fall apart after 100,000 miles, American made car." For example, my fiancee (who is also American pure and true) just purchased a German engineered, German manufactured, and German produced Audi A6 2.8 Quattro. Every American made car is a piece of shit when you own a car as beautifully made and engineered as that vehicle. It makes you laugh or grin every time you see any car engineered in America.
The truth of the matter is not the Americanism of buying a POS American engineered vehicle. It is the American business model...Make the car as cheaply as possible and sell it for as much as possible. And if you can't sell the car on merits, start calling the properly and better engineered vehicles names...Rice burners, Nazi mobiles, etc. etc. I am an engineer with a deep passion for World Rally Sport. Unlike what MOST Americans think, it doesn't take any talent to make a car go fast in a straight line. Sure, your Corvette goes somewhat fast (that is a matter of opinion), but try to corner with it or bring it onto any kind of race or track which isn't an oval, and your Corvette shows just how much of a front heavy, over-rated piece of shit it is.
The only thing that is American about you and your post is the shear ignorance of the American people is shining though. If you understood world class performance, anything short of an AWD (All Wheel Drive), turbocharged (single or twin), 4 cylinder (inline or horizontally opposed), or even 6 cylinder, is simply a complete POS. Your attitude is what leads people to believe that NASCAR is actually a race, much less a sport. NASCAR is simply American white trash soap opera. You put one of those oval running, RWD, POS American vehicles on a real race course and you will see just how fast they get laughed off the face of the Earth.
You have an American V8 or V6 or I4 car that can out accelerate, out corner, and out perform a Subaru WRX, WRX STi or a Mitsubishi Evo IV, V, VI, VII or the rally edition Audi Quattro (for a small example) and I will call you a liar straight to your face. And then laugh as I leave you in the dust. I have personally seen a Subaru WRX race a modified Chevy Camero SS and the Chevy lost. I would have died laughing if that little race involved any real cornering or tracks. Oh, and you can buy the Subaru WRX and Mitsubishi EVO 7 (available in 2003) in the United States. Cadillac tried to race in the French Le Mans 24 Hour and got laughed off the track by the Audi direct injection race car. Cadillac never showed up again. Ford of Europe is the only car company with an American tie that has ever been able to perform on a world circuit rally race course. And the best part is is that the Ford car isn't even American engineered. In order for Ford to compete, they had to buy another countries more competent automotive engineers and put the Ford label on their car. That is hilarious. Then Ford goes and claims it to be a Ford and American, when the only thing American about the car is the Ford label on the hood.
And as far as big trucks go, considering that the world does not revolve around the United States, how in the world does the other 6.1 billion people on the Earth survive without big American trucks? Sure, they are useful...for roughly 1% of the American population. The rest are simply used because it has been determined that large trucks imply roughness, ruggedness, outdoorsness, individuality, superiority, safety, and masculinity. None of the above are true. I have seen plenty of trucks and SUV's tipped on their tops or sides because the driver (where I live in the US) was trying to avoid a deer at about 55/65 MPH (and these were not all Ford Explorers). Not even one car though. So, safety is a total joke. 4WD...right. According to a recent article in the Wall Street Journal, only 1% of the population has ever used their 4WD if they had it. It didn't take a survey to tell me that. I go to work every single day and in our parking lot at work alone I see almost 25 big, American trucks...most of them driven by fat, short, women who smoke who have never really used their trucks in their entire lives. The other ones are used by desk jockey, middle aged men, none of whom live outside of the city (my engineering assistant just purchased a new Chevy Blazer the other week...and she lives 3 blocks from here).
All that your post showed is that apparently the only TRUE Americans are the dumb, uneducated, V8 driving, RWD morons (or FWD morons who try to race me from the stoplights in their Saturns..ha ha ha) that everyone else in the world still laughs at. I am American. I am educated. I look for quality in engineering and I have yet to find any quality, ingenuity, or competent engineering in any American engineered automobiles. But, one thing that makes me sick is that American's pride themselves on being stupid and ignorant and that the world revolves around the US in all aspects. I consider myself more American than you because I can admit my countries faults, admit that other countries and other engineers do things completely better, and still love my country for the things that are good about it, and educate the uneducated in my country (enlightening the V8 driving morons among others). You should be American and educate yourself and stopping thinking the entire world revolves around you and your US-centric attitude (especially about American automotive engineering). It's all about better automotive engineering, which the rest of the world knows that US has the worst. Oh, that new revolutionary GM diesel engine. That's right. It's made my Isuzu. Ooops.
Your questions are irrelevant since hybrid vehicles won't increase energy demand based on driving them. I suspect manufacturing energy costs will go up, but I don't know by how much.
I suspect the question you want to know is - how much of our oil supply is imported from the Middle East?
Roughly 40%.
Cut fuel consumption by cars by 50% and you've drastically reduced how much oil has to be imported from the Middle East (not eliminated - oil is used for far more than just gasoline).
I'm not sure if this is the case. NaOH is USED frequently in the industry because of it's strong alkaline properties. It's subject to Resource Conservation and Recovery Act (RCRA) as illustrated in the Industry Overview Of Construction. I'm not familiar with it's exact purpose in the industry, perhaps somebody can enlighten me, but I'm not quite so sure that it'd be a waste product in it's pure form, it'll very likely be diluted.
Second, what happens to the dilution in the waste when the NaH is being created?
Third, they plan to 'heat' the NaOH in order to turn it into solid NaH. How would they heat it? Heating costs energy. Is this possibly a similar scam as to use corn based ethanol to power engines? (everybody knows ofcourse that corn needs an abundance of nitrate rich fertilizer, which in turn requires a lot of energy, eg. oil, to create).
I do however like the NaH + H2O and tank idea as a means to safely transport H2. Down the line, the 'waste' product of this (ie. NaOH dissolved in water) could be used as non-diluted transmission medium for creating new NaOH as the previous poster said.
Of the 6 gas stations in my area, none of them sell diesel.
As mentioned in previous posts, US diesel fuel is pretty dirty stuff - you need only need to take a look at metropolitian buses to see that.
For the US, perhaps not Europe, hybrids are the best solution to an emissions, not an efficiency problem. Sure, we'd love to increase fuel economy here in the states, but given that gas is $1.59 in most places, we're not hurting if our cars don't break 50mpg either. Where we do have serious problems is in the sheer number of cars in traffic - if we can kill emissions while people are doing the hour-long stop'n'go to and from work, that's a lot of fuel that stays in the car, rather than getting thrown into the local airstream.