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Kernighan Teaches... Liberal Arts?

Flamerule writes "The New York Times has an article (free registration required) examining a new course Brian Kernighan is teaching at Princeton, called "Computers in Our World", aimed at liberal arts students who won't be going into the tech field. The author describes it as "a kind of intellectual smorgasbord, combining public policy - like technology's impact on privacy, copyright and antitrust matters - with large helpings of practical knowledge of how things work, from operating systems to disk drives." The K&R text is mentioned, though not as reverently as some would demand."

12 of 134 comments (clear)

  1. Privacy??? by mustangdavis · · Score: 1, Insightful
    ... like technology's impact on privacy ...


    The question: do we have privacy? That that right was taken away Microshaft and the government back in the late 1990's ...

    This will be on the exam.

  2. The Perfect Opportunity by BetterThanJimbo · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I think this is exactly the types of classes needed out there.

    For all the people who know nothing of issues like electronic voting, DMCA, Elrdrid v. Ashcroft, the hardest thing was to get the idea out to non-computer folk. Raising awareness of complex technical issues is usually next to impossible, and this is a great start.

    1. Re:The Perfect Opportunity by Daniel+Dvorkin · · Score: 5, Insightful
      I think this is exactly the types of classes needed out there.

      For all the people who know nothing of issues like electronic voting, DMCA, Elrdrid v. Ashcroft, the hardest thing was to get the idea out to non-computer folk. Raising awareness of complex technical issues is usually next to impossible, and this is a great start.


      It's a start, yes, but it's not enough. This is going to be a bit of rant, I'm afraid ...

      Why in God's name do students at Princeton -- Princeton, which at least used to be known as the greatest math school in the US! -- need to take only one course in "quantitative reasoning?" As a math major at a perfectly average state college, I had to take quite a few classes in English, communications, history, and other liberal arts subjects. I'm not complaining about this; a good liberal education is, and should be, part of what being a college graduate in any subject means.

      But "liberal education" should include science as well as liberal arts. There's no reason at all why students "headed toward degrees in politics, history, English, art history, psychology and economics" shouldn't learn how to differentiate a polynomial, calculate Gibbs free energy, or write "Hello, World." Studying the effects of science and technology on our world is all well and good, but those studies will only mean something if they know what science actually looks like.

      I'm with Clarke on this one, not snow: there are not two cultures. There is only one culture, and if you can't discourse on the structure of a sonnet and the second law of thermodynamics with equal ease, then you're uncultured, period.
      --
      The correlation between ignorance of statistics and using "correlation is not causation" as an argument is close to 1.
    2. Re:The Perfect Opportunity by mslinux · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The structure of a sonnet? The second law of thermodynamics? You must be kidding, right? Most Americans don't know what rights the First Amendment guarantees. Most Americans don't think they're a cultured know-it-all, polymath (such as yourself) who can discourse on anything.

    3. Re:The Perfect Opportunity by multimed · · Score: 2, Insightful
      a good liberal education is, and should be, part of what being a college graduate in any subject means.
      I almost agree, just one minor change: a good liberal education is, and should be, part of what being a University graduate in any subject means.

      Pretty much every University's mission or charter is to provide a broad education in addition to (book) expertise in a specific field of study. I think the argument most of us have is that they need to do a better job of keeping up with the times as far as what elements should be part of this broad education, but for the most part their intentions are good.

      However, small colleges and technical schools should be able to focus specifically on one area if they choose, so students can choose that route if it's more appropriate for them. One size does not fit all.

      Society is best served if most people have broad experiences to give them perspective and yet a small percentage are allowed to focus singlemindedly on a specific field of expertise.

      Ideal world aside, I have to admit that I was pretty upset when the University I attended forced me to take some classes not even remotely connected to my major--not because I was against learning the material but because I objected to being forced to pay for it.

      --
      Vote Quimby.
    4. Re:The Perfect Opportunity by binner1 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      This trend starts in Highschool. At least in Ontario Canada, anyway.

      The Ontario curriculum mandates that all students take 5 english courses while only taking 2 math courses. This has always really annoyed me...more for the fact that I found the english as useless as an english major would find math courses.

      I agree with your point. If 'math/science people' have to take arts courses, 'arts people' should have to take the same amount of math/science courses. It's only fair...and it does lead to being more rounded. I can honestly say that I enjoyed the History courses I chose for my arts credit.

      -Ben

    5. Re:The Perfect Opportunity by sg_oneill · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Totally agreed. Having a CS qualification, and now having spent six years in the Liberal Arts, I personally believe I can argue with most people on most of these topics under the table.
      It's a funny thing. There are still those in the arts monstering about proclaiming that VR is the "next big thing" and will revolutionise the world in a sort of sadcase Wired sorta way. Most can barely even operate a mouse and have perhaps missed that VR has been and passed and the revolution *didn't happen*, and probably *aint gonna happen*.
      Or in the Journalism classes with lecurers on online journalism claiming that Altavista is the latest and greatest search engine and never having *hear* of Blog journalism and the whole gonzo paradigm shift.
      For a good giggle , try my old trick, and do a semiotics class and argue your paper using Catastrophy math... "I still don't understand why a small shift leading to a big jump is a catastrophy and WHAT THE F*CK IS THAT HORRID EQUATION ON YOUR PAGE?". Heeeee!

      But that said, most CS guys are clueless on politics too. Many of our open source community have never gotten past the simplistic RMS/ESR libertarian gone wrong politics or can see why we look like goofs arguing for small government AND small business without understanding the subtlties of arguments used against such things.

      Hands up is you "get" Rawls? What about Kants moral Imperrative? Do you understand what Foucault actually means when he talks about the Panopticon.

      Sadly the culture divide between the sciences and the humanities runs both way. Time to "deconstruct the difference folks"

      --
      Excuse the Unicode crap in my posts. That's an apostrophe, and slashdot is busted.
  3. CS and Liberal Arts have a lot in common.... by JoshuaDFranklin · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Another good article is "The Elements of (Unix) Style" abuot Unix as literature.

    Anyway, my point is that a lot of these Lberal Arts kids are going to be interested in knowledge about a wide area of subjets--that's the whole focus of a Liberal Arts education. Computers is another area (though, today it would be extra interesting since everyone uses them but so few know how the "magic" works) to learn about. Of course, there are always some who don't want to learn.

    I was wondering about textbooks or notes and looked up the course info at Princeton's site. It's COS 109... unfortunately they don't have many details but searching for K himself led me to his notes and problem sets (link is HTML, but notes are pdf). He obviously used cal(1) for the schedule, too.

    Enjoy!

    1. Re:CS and Liberal Arts have a lot in common.... by crimsun · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I agree, both CS and the "classical humanities" (ala classics, history, languages, political "science") share a certain analytical methodology. Having majored in both computer science and English, I've heard from classmates the seeming apprehension (perhaps even disdain) each side holds. It basically stems from a type of closed mentality; a lot of CS enthusiasts and students shy from the seeming frivolous creativity and expression in classics; a lot of classical humanities majors avoid the "heavy math" of the sciences. In fact these views are misled. Granted, there's always an artistic element in studying a discipline, but one must often thoroughly understand the building blocks of various disciplines before attempting to define and explore the sinergy of "CS and Liberal Arts." An incorrect approach to "combine" or "bridge" the two camps would be to "talk down" to each discipline; you end up with dissatisfied students. You need more cross-discipline professors, as Professor K teaching a "liberal arts" seminar, or an esteemed classics professor teaching a programming languages concepts course. Unfortunately they're few and far between.

  4. Re:Enough to be dangerous by kubla2000 · · Score: 3, Insightful
    All the computing sector needs is an influx of people who think they know something about computers.

    These people get a government job, and start telling their contractors what to do and how to do it

    This courses introduction should be "Here is what real software engineers do (insert comlex UML diagram here), and this course won't prepare you to even get there."


    Nice troll.

    To paraphrase, I believe it's Swift, "a little learnin' is a dangerous thing", true. However, there's "a little learnin'" and awareness raising. How many people here moan about users who can't diagnose the most basic of hardware/software related problems. It's not because they don't want to diagnose the issue it's because they've been told that their computer is a dreadully complicated beast that they can never hope to understand. So if the printer doesn't print, it must be a problem that can only be resolved by a call to tech support rather than a quick check to see if the power is on, if the cables are plugged in or if the OS is reporting an error.

    This course goes further though. It doesn't teach "howtos" -- which I agree can lead to trouble, it teaches fundamentals. What is it that makes a computer tick? How does it work? How is that mouse gestures and keystrokes make things go that then appear on a monitor. This is grand stuff to know and to teach. This isn't taught on a systems-level, but on a conceptual level. Nobody is going to come out of this thinking they can become kernel hackers.

    What are you anyway? A programmer? an engineer? Whatever it is that you do, do you really believe that you shouldn't know about things outside of your core competence? Aren't you ever intrigued by the workings of nature? physics? What if a physcist said to you, "hey now, don't go reading that quantum physics stuff, you're liable to think you know something about it and cause a disaster." Or if a chef freaked because they saw you fingering a cookbook?

  5. Re:not educated unless you know technology by John+Harrison · · Score: 3, Insightful
    I was frustrated at Stanford by the administration's efforts to make easy math and science courses for the fuzzies. They actually put together a one year math and science overview course that would fulfill all requirements for say, English majors. Yet fuzzy students still complained about the burden placed upon them. Yet techies would have to take tons of real fuzzy courses, there were no simplified language courses or dummied-down African literature course. The distribution requirements were so one sided towards fuzzy courses it was a joke. Why shouldn't fuzzies have to take a real intro to programming course (106) instead of the Logo-based 105? Why should they get to take a physics class that was so simplified that no engineering student could recieve credit towards their major for it?

    That said, I had plenty of wonderful discussions about all sorts of things at Stanford. Just because someone hasn't had two years of math and science doesn't make them inferior.

    Of course, MIT probably doesn't have that many fuzzies going there, does it? So your peer group at MIT has already self selected when they decided to apply.

  6. Re:Non-western ideals??! by Didion+Sprague · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Yes, this is exactly the xenophobia I'm talking about.

    Of course you should *learn* about them. Learning about something doesn't mean you have to *agree* with it.

    You prove my point -- exactly -- about critical thinking. (And the dangers, alas, when it's lacking.)