Doing so really is a disservice to both PulseAudio and to Ubuntu, because it bugs in ALSA and in PA remain latent. That isn't a good thing. At this point, helping test daily-live desktop images of Ubuntu Lucid is really the direction one needs to pursue. If one were to remain with Karmic, please use PA from ppa:ubuntu-audio-dev instead, as it has all the necessary fixes from the stable-queue branch.
> direct me to the information required to make Ubuntu run well and stable, > with a low latency kernel, and an external Pro-Audio sound card, without > PulseAudio conflicting with Jack
If you wish to remain in the Ubuntu derivatives tree, it looks like Ubuntu Studio 10.04/Lucid is more aligned with your goals. You'll want to use an -rt kernel (at the very least -preempt, which is only available on amd64 currently). Unfortunately neither PA nor JACK have fully integrated handoffs via dbus (due to missing architectural decisions on both parts), so a conflict-free PA/JACK experience is still some time away.
> Again, dismissive, and not the path to take, especially for the new guy. > FIX THE SOUND! DUMP pulse! I've found that your own community has done > what, you Cannoncial has not, UPDATED the ALSA drivers to CURRENT version > to solve the problems with the prevalent "HDA" chipsets. GET THIS DONE.
Full disclosure: I am not a Canonical employee, but I spend a non-trivial amount of time maintaining audio in Ubuntu.
Because Ubuntu is heavily based on GNOME, and because GNOME has integrated PulseAudio quite tightly, removing PulseAudio from Ubuntu would be rather disastrous. Your argument has been heavily rehashed. Instead, desktop audio has already gained momentum in the PulseAudio direction, and it makes far more sense to help fix the bugs (which aren't even necessarily caused by PA -- see the libxml misuse debacles).
WRT updated drivers, it has been done: see what ppa:ubuntu-audio-dev offers in terms of linux-alsa-driver-modules-$(uname -r). Note that it is available for both Karmic and Lucid, and it is not from the official release tarball (currently 1.0.22.1) but from daily builds of git master HEAD corresponding to sound-2.6 (stable). Whatever's currently in the tree is rolled everyday.
No, they aren't the same people. And please, let's stop beating this silly dead PA horse already. It's in upstream GNOME; a decision was made to follow upstream.
With very few exceptions, Kubuntu developers are volunteers and have the unenviable task of setting QA vice feature development priorities given their resource constraints. One way to encourage Kubuntu developers is to become one, and in that respect you, too, would contribute to fixing existing bugs instead of putting in new features.
By default, 8.04's PulseAudio configuration uses a "nicer" but more resource-intensive resampler. Many people have simply turned off/deinstalled PulseAudio without really understanding the culprit.
By default, 8.10's PulseAudio configuration uses a less resource-intensive resampler (at the cost of some "quality"), so you shouldn't see the regression that you did from 7.10 -> 8.04.
I happen to be an idiot working alongside very intelligent people on the matter. Are we effective "enough"? Of course not. There's always something that's "more" effective. On the other hand, expediency at the cost of accountability is not necessarily palatable.
I don't discount a "lack of vision," but it's more likely that he did not say anything substantial, because even admitting (or denying) a capability can get him fired.
To be precise, the "Flash doesn't work with PulseAudio in hardy" symptom is due to three components (already addressed in intrepid):
1) broken Flash plugin retrieved by flashplugin-nonfree; 2) missing libflashsupport dependency (to fix symptom: FF instability, bug 192888) in flashplugin-nonfree; 3) outdated libasound2 and libasound2-plugins.
Intrepid addressed all three by:
1) pulling in the Flash 10 beta via flashplugin-nonfree; 2) (re)adding flashplugin-nonfree's versioned dependency on libflashsupport|libasound2-plugins; 3) updating to alsa-lib and alsa-plugins 1.0.16.
Thus, it's not so much that Flash doesn't work on 32-bit with PulseAudio in hardy. It's that the "less-PA-broken" Flash 10 beta wasn't released until 15 May, long after hardy was made available.
(Yes, I'm partially responsible for the horrible Flash/PulseAudio interaction in hardy. We've resolved the symptoms in intrepid by going with an asoundrc configured to use PulseAudio, though the user currently needs to issue one command from the terminal. Hopefully we can obsolete libflashsupport entirely and just use patched alsa-plugins. We'll get these pieces into hardy-updates and hardy-backports after sufficient testing.)
It doesn't need to be "poor people" necessarily. Sanitising and http://www.freecycle.org/ are good starts. Granted, I presume the poster didn't get them from CL or FC...
If you've a bit of familiarity with make-kpkg (and/or a willingness to read the kernel.ubuntu.com wiki), you can apply the above fix to the source. `apt-get source linux-image-$(uname -r)' is probably the easiest.
Alternately, you could install the server kernel, but that comes with the caveat of notable config differences. (I prefer this latter method myself because of sheer laziness.)
ALSA as shipped in linux-ubuntu-modules-2.6.24 (aka lum) does not fully support that hardware, no. It certainly works with hg tip (alsa-{kernel,driver}). Look for something in linux-backports-modules-2.6.24 (lbm).
Re:Dealing with various issues during upgrade
on
Ubuntu 8.04 Released
·
· Score: 2, Informative
This bug is due to a long-standing state mismatch with mixer element strings changing between alsa-{kernel,driver} releases.
For 8.10, we're considering a GUI (if not automated) method to deal with it.
Make sure the appropriate SDL package with PulseAudio support is installed (libsdl1.2debian-pulse in universe). As for the "problematic" apps, there's always pasuspender (e.g., `pasuspender -- skype'. The Ubuntu Studio guys already do this in a jackd wrapper for qjackctl).
It's a good idea to understand the ramifications before being "lured" into the armed services (that can, after all, stick you in the front lines). Joining up without understanding full well the probability of that occurring would be foolhardy.
Slashdot Mirror
> I've had exchanges with the audio people that basically went like[...]
Which bug report did you file?
> step one is always to uninstall PulseAudio
Doing so really is a disservice to both PulseAudio and to Ubuntu, because it bugs in ALSA and in PA remain latent. That isn't a good thing. At this point, helping test daily-live desktop images of Ubuntu Lucid is really the direction one needs to pursue. If one were to remain with Karmic, please use PA from ppa:ubuntu-audio-dev instead, as it has all the necessary fixes from the stable-queue branch.
> direct me to the information required to make Ubuntu run well and stable,
> with a low latency kernel, and an external Pro-Audio sound card, without
> PulseAudio conflicting with Jack
If you wish to remain in the Ubuntu derivatives tree, it looks like Ubuntu Studio 10.04/Lucid is more aligned with your goals. You'll want to use an -rt kernel (at the very least -preempt, which is only available on amd64 currently). Unfortunately neither PA nor JACK have fully integrated handoffs via dbus (due to missing architectural decisions on both parts), so a conflict-free PA/JACK experience is still some time away.
> Again, dismissive, and not the path to take, especially for the new guy.
> FIX THE SOUND! DUMP pulse! I've found that your own community has done
> what, you Cannoncial has not, UPDATED the ALSA drivers to CURRENT version
> to solve the problems with the prevalent "HDA" chipsets. GET THIS DONE.
Full disclosure: I am not a Canonical employee, but I spend a non-trivial amount of time maintaining audio in Ubuntu.
Because Ubuntu is heavily based on GNOME, and because GNOME has integrated PulseAudio quite tightly, removing PulseAudio from Ubuntu would be rather disastrous. Your argument has been heavily rehashed. Instead, desktop audio has already gained momentum in the PulseAudio direction, and it makes far more sense to help fix the bugs (which aren't even necessarily caused by PA -- see the libxml misuse debacles).
WRT updated drivers, it has been done: see what ppa:ubuntu-audio-dev offers in terms of linux-alsa-driver-modules-$(uname -r). Note that it is available for both Karmic and Lucid, and it is not from the official release tarball (currently 1.0.22.1) but from daily builds of git master HEAD corresponding to sound-2.6 (stable). Whatever's currently in the tree is rolled everyday.
No, they aren't the same people. And please, let's stop beating this silly dead PA horse already. It's in upstream GNOME; a decision was made to follow upstream.
With very few exceptions, Kubuntu developers are volunteers and have the unenviable task of setting QA vice feature development priorities given their resource constraints. One way to encourage Kubuntu developers is to become one, and in that respect you, too, would contribute to fixing existing bugs instead of putting in new features.
Sounds like a great blueprint to be written.
As others have stated, the recommended upgrade path for non-LTS Ubuntu versions is through each successive release.
For Kubuntu only, you can upgrade to 9.10 from 8.04 LTS or from 9.04.
By default, 8.04's PulseAudio configuration uses a "nicer" but more resource-intensive resampler. Many people have simply turned off/deinstalled PulseAudio without really understanding the culprit.
By default, 8.10's PulseAudio configuration uses a less resource-intensive resampler (at the cost of some "quality"), so you shouldn't see the regression that you did from 7.10 -> 8.04.
WRT DFSG, the portions in question appear to be III.1 and III.2.
See also https://launchpad.net/truecrypt-installer/trunk
I happen to be an idiot working alongside very intelligent people on the matter. Are we effective "enough"? Of course not. There's always something that's "more" effective. On the other hand, expediency at the cost of accountability is not necessarily palatable.
I don't discount a "lack of vision," but it's more likely that he did not say anything substantial, because even admitting (or denying) a capability can get him fired.
Read more closely: "we're not in the business of compromising networks or gaining access to other governments' systems without just cause."
Unequivocally, yes, things are being done to defend our national interests.
To be precise, the "Flash doesn't work with PulseAudio in hardy" symptom is due to three components (already addressed in intrepid):
1) broken Flash plugin retrieved by flashplugin-nonfree;
2) missing libflashsupport dependency (to fix symptom: FF instability, bug 192888) in flashplugin-nonfree;
3) outdated libasound2 and libasound2-plugins.
Intrepid addressed all three by:
1) pulling in the Flash 10 beta via flashplugin-nonfree;
2) (re)adding flashplugin-nonfree's versioned dependency on libflashsupport|libasound2-plugins;
3) updating to alsa-lib and alsa-plugins 1.0.16.
Thus, it's not so much that Flash doesn't work on 32-bit with PulseAudio in hardy. It's that the "less-PA-broken" Flash 10 beta wasn't released until 15 May, long after hardy was made available.
(Yes, I'm partially responsible for the horrible Flash/PulseAudio interaction in hardy. We've resolved the symptoms in intrepid by going with an asoundrc configured to use PulseAudio, though the user currently needs to issue one command from the terminal. Hopefully we can obsolete libflashsupport entirely and just use patched alsa-plugins. We'll get these pieces into hardy-updates and hardy-backports after sufficient testing.)
It doesn't need to be "poor people" necessarily. Sanitising and http://www.freecycle.org/ are good starts. Granted, I presume the poster didn't get them from CL or FC...
None of the supported flavours actually enable SELinux in a default install.
I agree that Ubuntu is yet another distro, and that's the beauty of FLOSS - using what works best, all things considered, for the task.
If you've a bit of familiarity with make-kpkg (and/or a willingness to read the kernel.ubuntu.com wiki), you can apply the above fix to the source. `apt-get source linux-image-$(uname -r)' is probably the easiest.
Alternately, you could install the server kernel, but that comes with the caveat of notable config differences. (I prefer this latter method myself because of sheer laziness.)
ALSA as shipped in linux-ubuntu-modules-2.6.24 (aka lum) does not fully support that hardware, no. It certainly works with hg tip (alsa-{kernel,driver}). Look for something in linux-backports-modules-2.6.24 (lbm).
This bug is due to a long-standing state mismatch with mixer element strings changing between alsa-{kernel,driver} releases.
For 8.10, we're considering a GUI (if not automated) method to deal with it.
It has been addressed, and "the fix" will be in the point release.
I'd like to mention http://git.kernel.org/?p=linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux-2.6.git;a=commit;h=e2df9e0905136eebeca66eb9a994ca48d0fa7990, too.
Make sure the appropriate SDL package with PulseAudio support is installed (libsdl1.2debian-pulse in universe). As for the "problematic" apps, there's always pasuspender (e.g., `pasuspender -- skype'. The Ubuntu Studio guys already do this in a jackd wrapper for qjackctl).
It's a good idea to understand the ramifications before being "lured" into the armed services (that can, after all, stick you in the front lines). Joining up without understanding full well the probability of that occurring would be foolhardy.
Try Caribou Coffee.
Try this link: http://kerneltrap.org/Linux/Abusing_chroot#comment-273718 .