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Kernighan Teaches... Liberal Arts?

Flamerule writes "The New York Times has an article (free registration required) examining a new course Brian Kernighan is teaching at Princeton, called "Computers in Our World", aimed at liberal arts students who won't be going into the tech field. The author describes it as "a kind of intellectual smorgasbord, combining public policy - like technology's impact on privacy, copyright and antitrust matters - with large helpings of practical knowledge of how things work, from operating systems to disk drives." The K&R text is mentioned, though not as reverently as some would demand."

20 of 134 comments (clear)

  1. The Perfect Opportunity by BetterThanJimbo · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I think this is exactly the types of classes needed out there.

    For all the people who know nothing of issues like electronic voting, DMCA, Elrdrid v. Ashcroft, the hardest thing was to get the idea out to non-computer folk. Raising awareness of complex technical issues is usually next to impossible, and this is a great start.

    1. Re:The Perfect Opportunity by Daniel+Dvorkin · · Score: 5, Insightful
      I think this is exactly the types of classes needed out there.

      For all the people who know nothing of issues like electronic voting, DMCA, Elrdrid v. Ashcroft, the hardest thing was to get the idea out to non-computer folk. Raising awareness of complex technical issues is usually next to impossible, and this is a great start.


      It's a start, yes, but it's not enough. This is going to be a bit of rant, I'm afraid ...

      Why in God's name do students at Princeton -- Princeton, which at least used to be known as the greatest math school in the US! -- need to take only one course in "quantitative reasoning?" As a math major at a perfectly average state college, I had to take quite a few classes in English, communications, history, and other liberal arts subjects. I'm not complaining about this; a good liberal education is, and should be, part of what being a college graduate in any subject means.

      But "liberal education" should include science as well as liberal arts. There's no reason at all why students "headed toward degrees in politics, history, English, art history, psychology and economics" shouldn't learn how to differentiate a polynomial, calculate Gibbs free energy, or write "Hello, World." Studying the effects of science and technology on our world is all well and good, but those studies will only mean something if they know what science actually looks like.

      I'm with Clarke on this one, not snow: there are not two cultures. There is only one culture, and if you can't discourse on the structure of a sonnet and the second law of thermodynamics with equal ease, then you're uncultured, period.
      --
      The correlation between ignorance of statistics and using "correlation is not causation" as an argument is close to 1.
    2. Re:The Perfect Opportunity by Didion+Sprague · · Score: 4, Interesting

      There is only one culture, and if you can't discourse on the structure of a sonnet and the second law of thermodynamics with equal ease, then you're uncultured, period.

      Interesting. I agree with your notion about a single culture.

      But the idea that you -- or anyone -- picks a single thing out of the culture and says, well, if you don't know this thing, you're uncultured -- well, this is bad. I agree, though, in an ideal world we should be able to discourse on the structure of a sonnet and the second law of thermodynamics. But I disagree with the idea that if you don't know these two things, you're uncultured.

      This reminds me of the so-called 'culture wars' that went on several years ago. Roger Shattuck, Dinish D'Souza (sp?), Roger Kimball -- everybody was chiming in with lists of stuff. You gotta know about the Spanish Armada, about Amerigo Vespucci. You gotta know what country wrote the 'Lusiads' and why, in the history of poetry (and exploration) why the Lusiads are important.

      My concern with all this -- and I haven't yet made up my mind how best to approach it -- is that when we start talking about "lists" or about "stuff we need to know, or else", we're often blindsided by a kind of subconscious -- or silent -- xenophobia. The stuff we need to know is largely "Western" -- both in its cultural orientation and in its ... well, in its hegemonic stature. Edward Said -- much as I find his 'Orientalism' shrill and oftentimes difficult to read -- has (I think) some valid concerns about the 'Westernization' of cultural ideas and the dangers of unbidden (or uncritical) hegemony.

      So as not to venture too far off-topic, I'd say that while I agree with your general idea of diversity among the disciplines, I'd like to see it pushed even farther -- but not too far, not so far that, suddenly, the same ol' moral relativism looms and threatens to say, well, everybody's right, no one's right, and the oppressed are *really* right. I'm not sure where to draw the line.

      But I think in addition to science and math, most students (IMHO) simply need to READ more. Novels, poetry, biography. Read, read, read. Whatever. But be unrelenting in your reading. Pursue stuff in college that you never thought you'd read.

      If you're a reader, you learn how to become a critical thinker -- and this skill -- critical thinking -- is equally important across all disciplines: math, science, literature, philosophy, you name it.

      It's nice to know stuff. And it's nice to think that you know the right stuff. But unless you're equipped to think about what you know -- and play the complex game of mental-connect-the-dots -- it's easy enough to discourse on the sonnet, discourse on the second law of thermodynamics, discourse on the mystical nature of the Kaballah and not realize that all three of things and more -- you name it -- are all, somehow, somewhere connected.

  2. Geek religion by Derwen · · Score: 5, Funny
    "The K&R text is mentioned, though not as reverently as some would demand"
    Then they should have got Saint Ignucius to write the article. ;-)

    --
    http://fsfeurope.org/
  3. Re:This should be interesting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny
    BUT - what has he done lately?
    Seriously - it seems that the revolution has passed him by. I'm sure he's quietly done some great stuff since his book, I'd just like to know what it is.
    Well, maybe he doesn't want to share it with you ;-P

    A train stops at a train station. A bus stops at a bus station. This explains the problem with my workstation.

  4. Depth by Omkar · · Score: 3, Informative

    Will these students be exposed to computing in enough depth to understand the finer details? To the layperson, patenting software is always OK, but to me, in some cases, it seems like patenting a theorem in math. Another example is the RIAA's legal maneuvers. If people didn't swap mp3s, they'd probably swallow the RIAA propaganda about stealin from artists by downloading songs.

    I think a course solely devoted to the changing nature of copyright and patents today (esp. IT and biotech) could create more awareness of today's issues.

  5. Why this is important by Nate+B. · · Score: 5, Interesting

    As noted in the article, upon explanation of the inner workings of a computer and that it just manipulates bits really fast, one of the students said he had an "aha" revelation. This is the kind of thing that should be taught to everyone in school.

    Dinking with Word and Paint, don't de-mystify the machine. Only by having a basic (no pun intended) understanding of the machine and what it does will a person be willing to control it. So many folks that have computers are so intimidated by them that they are afraid to control the machine. Changing fundamental settings like wallpaper truly scares some people. (Insert gratuitous MS slam here)

    Equally important is the discussion and enlightenment these students will get on matters of copyright, law as it is being applied to computing, and patents. Only a well informed citizenry will prevent the spate of knee-jerk reactions to minor problems. Perhaps a well educated citizenry will clean up the ridiculous mess that is the DMCA and software patents.

    I hope This kind of course gets cloned and used in education everywhere. It's desperately needed.

    --

    "Insanity is doing the same thing over again expecting a different result."
  6. Re:This should be interesting by trb · · Score: 5, Informative
    what has he done lately?

    What have you done lately?

    Kernighan is the foundation of some of the best CS books ever, not just one book. Find the pattern:

    • Kernighan and Plaugher (Software Tools and Elements of Programming Style)
    • Kernighan and Ritchie
    • Kernighan and Pike (UNIX Programming Environment and Practice of Programming)
    Bell Labs researchers did all kinds of ground-breaking practical CS stuff, and lots of them worked with Kernighan - Aho, Weinberger, Lesk, Bentley, Mashey, Johnson... You think maybe all these guys worked with Kernighan because he has something to contribute?

    He's a researcher and a teacher. Most researchers do obscure work that no-one ever knows. How many researchers and teachers are so productive? Practically none. If you want to know what he's up to, try a search engine.

  7. cat got my tongue by Graspee_Leemoor · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I'm mainly just writing this to see if I can, since /. seems to be borken, judging by the number of comments on each story.

    So, what to say ?

    You see a lot of "old time" computer programmers slowing down these days- it's sort of sad. It shows us that however brilliant we are at programming there will come a time when we have to slow down.

    The difference between true greats and us (if you consider yourself a "true great" then apologies, and "fuck you!") is that when they slow down they are still brilliant enough and have enough energy to change the world, either through writing, or lectures.

    Does anyone know of any great programmers who are old, say over 60 ? I would be interested. Probably some people who are really famous are that old, but I just didn't realize their age....

    graspee

  8. Enough to be dangerous by tbonium · · Score: 3, Interesting

    All the computing sector needs is an influx of people who think they know something about computers.

    These people get a government job, and start telling their contractors what to do and how to do it

    This courses introduction should be "Here is what real software engineers do (insert comlex UML diagram here), and this course won't prepare you to even get there."

    1. Re:Enough to be dangerous by kubla2000 · · Score: 3, Insightful
      All the computing sector needs is an influx of people who think they know something about computers.

      These people get a government job, and start telling their contractors what to do and how to do it

      This courses introduction should be "Here is what real software engineers do (insert comlex UML diagram here), and this course won't prepare you to even get there."


      Nice troll.

      To paraphrase, I believe it's Swift, "a little learnin' is a dangerous thing", true. However, there's "a little learnin'" and awareness raising. How many people here moan about users who can't diagnose the most basic of hardware/software related problems. It's not because they don't want to diagnose the issue it's because they've been told that their computer is a dreadully complicated beast that they can never hope to understand. So if the printer doesn't print, it must be a problem that can only be resolved by a call to tech support rather than a quick check to see if the power is on, if the cables are plugged in or if the OS is reporting an error.

      This course goes further though. It doesn't teach "howtos" -- which I agree can lead to trouble, it teaches fundamentals. What is it that makes a computer tick? How does it work? How is that mouse gestures and keystrokes make things go that then appear on a monitor. This is grand stuff to know and to teach. This isn't taught on a systems-level, but on a conceptual level. Nobody is going to come out of this thinking they can become kernel hackers.

      What are you anyway? A programmer? an engineer? Whatever it is that you do, do you really believe that you shouldn't know about things outside of your core competence? Aren't you ever intrigued by the workings of nature? physics? What if a physcist said to you, "hey now, don't go reading that quantum physics stuff, you're liable to think you know something about it and cause a disaster." Or if a chef freaked because they saw you fingering a cookbook?

  9. Not the only one out there by Yossarian2000 · · Score: 3, Informative

    Sounds like an interesting class, but others have done this before. Boston College, for example, has had a course called Technology in Society for a few years now.

    --
    You're not allowed to rent here anymore!
  10. CS and Liberal Arts have a lot in common.... by JoshuaDFranklin · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Another good article is "The Elements of (Unix) Style" abuot Unix as literature.

    Anyway, my point is that a lot of these Lberal Arts kids are going to be interested in knowledge about a wide area of subjets--that's the whole focus of a Liberal Arts education. Computers is another area (though, today it would be extra interesting since everyone uses them but so few know how the "magic" works) to learn about. Of course, there are always some who don't want to learn.

    I was wondering about textbooks or notes and looked up the course info at Princeton's site. It's COS 109... unfortunately they don't have many details but searching for K himself led me to his notes and problem sets (link is HTML, but notes are pdf). He obviously used cal(1) for the schedule, too.

    Enjoy!

    1. Re:CS and Liberal Arts have a lot in common.... by crimsun · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I agree, both CS and the "classical humanities" (ala classics, history, languages, political "science") share a certain analytical methodology. Having majored in both computer science and English, I've heard from classmates the seeming apprehension (perhaps even disdain) each side holds. It basically stems from a type of closed mentality; a lot of CS enthusiasts and students shy from the seeming frivolous creativity and expression in classics; a lot of classical humanities majors avoid the "heavy math" of the sciences. In fact these views are misled. Granted, there's always an artistic element in studying a discipline, but one must often thoroughly understand the building blocks of various disciplines before attempting to define and explore the sinergy of "CS and Liberal Arts." An incorrect approach to "combine" or "bridge" the two camps would be to "talk down" to each discipline; you end up with dissatisfied students. You need more cross-discipline professors, as Professor K teaching a "liberal arts" seminar, or an esteemed classics professor teaching a programming languages concepts course. Unfortunately they're few and far between.

  11. not educated unless you know technology by peter303 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I attend both MIT and Stanford and found the MIT students to be more informed about everything than the Stanford or Harvard students. MIT requires a minimum of two years of science and math courses (most take much more), while the other two schools much less than that. You could talk about anything with MIT students at late night dorm sessions- technology, politics, literature, philosophy, social action, etc. The other places the students werent as widely knowledgeable. They would intentionally avoid technology and philosphy.

    1. Re:not educated unless you know technology by T1girl · · Score: 4, Funny

      I attend both MIT and Stanford
      Wow, you must have a heck of a commute!

    2. Re:not educated unless you know technology by John+Harrison · · Score: 3, Insightful
      I was frustrated at Stanford by the administration's efforts to make easy math and science courses for the fuzzies. They actually put together a one year math and science overview course that would fulfill all requirements for say, English majors. Yet fuzzy students still complained about the burden placed upon them. Yet techies would have to take tons of real fuzzy courses, there were no simplified language courses or dummied-down African literature course. The distribution requirements were so one sided towards fuzzy courses it was a joke. Why shouldn't fuzzies have to take a real intro to programming course (106) instead of the Logo-based 105? Why should they get to take a physics class that was so simplified that no engineering student could recieve credit towards their major for it?

      That said, I had plenty of wonderful discussions about all sorts of things at Stanford. Just because someone hasn't had two years of math and science doesn't make them inferior.

      Of course, MIT probably doesn't have that many fuzzies going there, does it? So your peer group at MIT has already self selected when they decided to apply.

  12. Re:Privacy??? by NewbieV · · Score: 4, Interesting

    *sighs because it feels like I'm feeding a troll*

    Yes, we still have some privacy, and I agree that we have less than we did before, but more importantly, we have an ever-increasing awareness in the general population that privacy is important, and that some people are pushing the pendulum too far to one side in the name of: 1. security; 2. increased profits; 3. (insert your reason here).

    When people realize that there is a difference between privacy and anonymity, when people realize that they are giving away rights they took for granted, and when they (collectively) get concerned enough to complain in a loud, clear and compelling voice, then maybe we can push the pendulum back to the other side, or at least back to the middle, where it belongs.

    Teaching classes like this is a great way to empower people outside of the tech/geek population.

    --


    "For every right, an equal responsibility..."
  13. My personal experience... by Snuffub · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Im a lab TA for this course, which means that I have scheduled hours in one of the labs where students can come in and work on the projects with someone there to give them help. What Ive seen so far is that the original intentions of the people signing up for this course is to use it as a gut, but now at the half way point their learning alot and they all have a better grasp of how the computer, and their browser in particular, works to display what's on their screen. For example for the first couple weeks most questions were just confusion about things like where the files were supposed to go, and how to open and save documents. Now everyone seems to have a strong grasp on the basics and their questions really show that they understand what's being thrown at them.

    --
    --aiee
  14. Maybe he has gone the way of Donald Knuth... by xiox · · Score: 3, Funny