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Sun To Continue To Go After Microsoft

Posted by ryuzaki0 on from the mindless-pursuit dept.

Raiford writes "Sun Microsystem's has vowed to continue their pursuit of seeking damages from Microsoft in spite of the current ruling. A Reuters feature describes yesterday's ruling a setback for Sun and upholding light punishment on Microsoft. The current decision has not deterred Sun from pursuing a billion dollar suit maintaining a position of claiming significant harm from what they feel is clear monopoly"

15 of 243 comments (clear)

  1. Business Strategy??? by rnd() · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I guess for some it's easier to litigate than it is to spend time/money on developing better products.

    To see how confident Wall Street feels about this strategy, look here.

    --

    Amazing magic tricks

    1. Re:Business Strategy??? by the+eric+conspiracy · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I guess for some it's easier to litigate than it is to spend time/money on developing better products.

      Hmmm... I didn't see any place in the article that stated Sun was dropping it's R&D program to pursue the lawsuit. Nor did they mention anything about Bill Joy becoming a lawyer, or similar steps.

      These are not mutually exclusive.

    2. Re:Business Strategy??? by Schnapple · · Score: 5, Insightful
      If I had mod points I'd mod this up. Microsoft is not infallible, all you have to do is do a better product.

      Microsoft's PhotoDraw product tried a couple of times to enter the graphics market. Never did put a dent in Photoshop or CorelDRAW.

      Does anyone remember the Windows Sound System? Microsoft tried to make a sound card at one point in time. Creative didn't go anywhere or sue.

      And let's not forget how Sony and Nintendo are handing Microsoft their hat in the console arena.

      On the flipside, Microsoft tried to buy Intuit to take over their Quicken product. Since this was when the DOJ was starting to breathe down MS' neck, they backed off. Instead, they went on to make Microsoft Money as good as possible. The result? Now Microsoft Money is consistently rated higher than Quicken by critics and its taking away critical market share.

      Two years ago, PalmOS enabled devices commanded 86% of the market - nowadays the market is more than half PocketPC.

      In these last two examples, Microsoft didn't pull any punches, they were just better. Perhaps if Netscape had kept up instead of whining to the feds they could have beat Microsoft.

      And as for the notion that a good chunk of the reason Microsoft "wins" in the business world is because of mindshare (i.e., the bosses all just think MS is better) - tough shit. I mean, suing a company because they happen to be more popular? Sun is crying to mommy. Too bad mommy just called it bullshit.

      --

      Schnapple

    3. Re:Business Strategy??? by nrosier · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Does anyone remember the Windows Sound System? Microsoft tried to make a sound card at one point in time. Creative didn't go anywhere or sue.
      Microsoft couldn't bundle the card with their OS...

      Perhaps if Netscape had kept up instead of whining to the feds they could have beat Microsoft.
      If you choke somebody so they don't have any R&D money left to develop the thing, what else can you do? Remember Netscape used to sell their browser for commercial use. Microsoft just bundled it with their OS (for which you have to pay so they got $$$ anyway).

      I mean, suing a company because they happen to be more popular?
      Where in the lawsuit is it mentionned that they are suing over popularity? You need a reality check.

  2. Sun has jumped the shark by Voytek · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This just proves it. Sun needs to stop fucking around with an irrelevant lawsuit the will never be resolved.

    Instead, Sun needs to go after .NET with a Java3 marketing blitz, before .NET gets too established. Take all that money they're spending on lawyers and saturate the enterprise app market with advertising and FUD.

    Let me clarify that I'm absolutely not joking - I'm a J2EE consultant, and I really like the technology; I don't savor the prospect of having to become a .NET consultant to pay the bills in 3 or 4 years.

    1. Re:Sun has jumped the shark by vicious_sloth · · Score: 5, Insightful

      That may be true and all, but Sun really needs this lawsuit, not only to protect itself but to keep microsoft in check. Say Sun did not file lawsuit, then they are in effect condoning M$'s monoplistic behavior. Its like trying to play fair with someone who keeps on cheating.

      It is a very unfair fight though, Microsoft has tons of cash and resources to battle with. If no one says or does anything (ie. file lawsuits) then Microsoft will keep on expanding its monolopy and destroying competition.

      If Sun wins this, it would be a big blow to Microsoft and open then door to even more lawsuits against Microsoft, and then evetually we may even get real competition, which is a good thing(tm)

      --
      Sun is Warm, Grass is Green
    2. Re:Sun has jumped the shark by ReelOddeeo · · Score: 5, Insightful

      What ever happened to the "let the best software win" viewpoint? If non Microsoft software is "better enough", then it will win. No business would sacrefice profit out of some sentimental attachment to Microsoft products.

      This is so flawed I don't know where to begin.

      Yeah, Microosft, whatever happened to let the best software win?

      Were you involved with computers during the mid 1980's? People who just recently arrived on the scene seem to think that Microsoft got to where they are by making superior products.

      People don't choose Microsoft because it is the best. They get it because they have no real choice.

      Order a new PC. You get to choose what kind of monitor you want. Choose what video card you want. Choose how large a hard drive you want. How much RAM. Some OEM's let you make more choices than others. But one choice they don't let you make is what OS to run. (You can have any OS you want as long as you pay Microsoft.)

      This was especially true during the early days. Even if you wanted a competing OS, and there WERE competing OSes for awhile during the early 80's, you still had to pay Microsoft for their OS, even if it was not installed on your new box. This is because of Microsoft's exclusive arrangements with manufacturers. This is how you build a monopoly. By eliminating choices. In 1995, Microsoft finally signed a consent decree with the DOJ promising to stop this practice. Too little, too late.

      Once you are an established monopoly, you can charge anything you want. Nothing else to compare prices to. Microsoft's price has gone only one direction. Now that you are raking in the money, you can pour buckets of money into development in order to finally develop good products.

      Then a whole new niave generation comes along which thinks that people choose Microsoft because it is best.

      --

      Those who would give up liberty in exchange for security and DRM should switch to Microsoft Palladium!
  3. hoping for a change in administrations? by call+-151 · · Score: 5, Interesting
    Remember that the last DOJ probe into Microsoft was derailed by the change from Clinton to Bush (things were looking promising, but right before the elections there was a go-slow/wait-and-see pause) that resulted in a much more `business-friendly' administration that did not pursue the settlement very agressively.


    With this in mind, maybe if Sun starts something now they are hoping that in two years there may be another administration that might think that monopoly power abuse is actually a bad thing and will pick up the ball then... It can't hurt to start something now with that hope...

    --
    It's psychosomatic. You need a lobotomy. I'll get a saw.
  4. Re:Fly going after the elephant by JordanH · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Not really. They actually have closer to $40 Billion in the bank now and they're accumulating at the rate of about $1 Billion a month.

    So, $1 Billion to Sun, $3 Billion to the EU, $1 Billion to AOL, and let's be really generous and say $7 Billion covers all the rest and their lawyers.

    If the lawsuits take more than a year, and they will, they'll still have more than they started with.

  5. Moby Dick by CatWrangler · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Ahab McNealy was entertaining for a while, but enough is enough. He needs to regroup, realize that as odeous as Microsoft is, he needs to focus his energy elsewhere for the time being.

    The Great White Whale will still be there, fat and bloated, and will have it's justice eventually.

    Tilting at windmills can be fun, but after a while it begins to effect the rest of your business.

    --

    ---
    When you come to a fork in the road, take it! --Yogi Berra--

  6. What if MS is actually getting better? by RealityThreek · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The usual opinion seems to be that MS will eventually bring itself down because of oppressive licensing tactics, etc.

    The unfortunate thing is that they have actually been getting better in stability and security in their products. If they continue to improve their products to a point where they are actually half-decent, the only upperhand we'll still have is that opensource software is free as in beer.

    I like seeing opensource stuff because it is free, but also because it's an alternative. Having competition means innovation and better products all around. But if people stop seeing Microsoft software as crappy and crash-prone then what incentive is there to switch away from it?

    --
    :wq
  7. Limitted scope of original trial by Space+Coyote · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It's actually a good thing for Sun that the antitrust trial focused almost exclusively on the browser issue. And the findings of fact still stand, whether the DoJ crumpled or not.

    Microsoft's ability to bribe politicians is one thing, but it doesn't grant them immunity from legal action on the part of those they may have wronged in the past. (I'll reserve judgment on their guilt until more evidence is presented, but I wouldn't put it past them considering what they did to Apple, Borland or Netscape)

    --
    ___
    Cogito cogito, ergo cogito sum.
  8. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  9. When did Sun ever compete for the desktop by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If Sun bitches about Microsoft being a monopoly, I have to ask: When did Sun ever produce affordable cheap desktop computers that students could buy, or software that secretaries could use in daily office work? How many people do you know own a Sun laptop? Or a Sun palmtop? When is the last time you ever saw a commercial computer game produced by Sun Microsystems sold at Electronics Boutique? Where are the Sun machines in retail stores such as WalMart, or at the thousands of Mom-and-Pop computer stores spread across the world who advertise in the daily newspapers? Can you even connect to AOL from a Sun machine using AOL software? Did Sun ever pursue this? "Well, AOL isn't used by our target demographic." GOTCHA!

    A long time ago, Sun seriously thought about buying Apple...then abandoned that plan. The desktop WASN'T their market at that time, otherwise it should have been a no-brainer. McNealy balked on the price. How convenient for Sun to continue their "Robin Hood" ruse of saving the masses from the Evil King, while Linux erodes their base (think of Oracle switching to Linux). And just how hard would it have been to re-create the Macintosh user-interface experience on Sun anyhow? Look at background of the authors of KDE and GNOME. Just what are those thousands of Sun employees DOING? Sun is complaining about Microsoft owning the Desktop?

    And what about their strategy? Sun produces Java for free -- "write once, run anwhere." So then their "Office-killer" should be easy to port to the Macintosh, just as Microsoft does. But wait, StarOffice is written in C++, so it's "unlikely" we'll see a port, according to Sun officials. And what about Sun's flip-flopping: First it was going to be free. Then Sun waffled and started charging for it. Java is Open Source -- but only sort of. Sun is complaining about Microsoft owning the Desktop?

    This flip flopping is not new. Consider the recent flap over the Solaris on 0x86 machines. Sun planned to drop support (and even the product) until enough users bitched about it (http://www.save-solaris-x86.org/). So much for "corporate strategy". Sun is complaining about Microsoft owning the Desktop?

    And I have never understood how Sun expected to profit from Java. If they thought that Java could be a loss-leader to push hardware, then they got a nasty lesson when their "thin-client" Java-based computers went nowhere. Sun can only blame themselves. Furthermore, if Java is "write once, run anywhere", then nobody needs to buy a Sun machine. Sun is complaining about Microsoft owning the Desktop?

    Maybe Sun though they could profit from "goodwill", ie, if they gave away their software, more people would be loyal to them for hardware. Looks like that strategy didn't work, and it only leads credence to the idea that Sun thinks of itself as a specialized HARDWARE company more than a software company. Sun is complaining about Microsoft owning the Desktop?

    Dressing up as a penguin ain't gonna sell more Sun computers, Scotty. How many millions were wasted on that stupid advertising campaign saying "We're the DOT in DOT COM"? Yeah, Sun is going to become a DOT pretty soon. And how many millions are being wasted on the lawyers? How many millions were pissed away when those same dollars could have been used wisely in software development or subsidizing lower costs for computer hardware?

    The Sun is setting very quickly. Go ahead and sue. You'll only be hastening your demise.

  10. Re:Ok, BUT by Zapman · · Score: 5, Informative

    I remember the ecache issue quite well. I don't know if I'd call it underhanded on Sun's part, though maybe for IBM.

    See, IBM sold Sun the cache for their CPU's, and never bothered to inform them that there was a rather high failure rate. And with Sun throwing 8 megs of cache on their chips, you're bound to run into that sooner rather than later.

    BTW: this problem got fixed when they started the SAMBRA process (effectivly, 16 megs of cache, 8 megs, mirrored, any byte goes bad, and it's flagged, and the mirror is used only), and was wacked totally when they started using (Toshiba?) instead of IBM for cache.

    Now, if you're refering to how they didn't exactly publicise the fact that there wre significant problems... you might have a point there. However, I can see how they only wanted to fix those who 1) Sun they had the supply for (it takes a while to ramp up a new design for the same processor) and 2) customers who had the most need of the new chips. If it hasn't failed yet, why change it?

    My company was rather high on the list and Sun replaced every system board, and every stick of ram, and every CPU in both of our e10k's.

    For free.

    All we had to do was schedule the downtime.

    --
    Zapman