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The Ethics of Desktop Chips Stuffed Into Laptop PCs
squareBIT writes "I recently found this article on THG about my SmartStep 250N having a desktop CPU stuffed into it. That's all fine and dandy. but when I paid for this thing, nobody told me it would run at HALF SPEED in battery mode. I don't recall there being any mention of this before I handed them thousands of dollars. Shouldn't there be some sort ethical ramifications put into action here? I feel so dirty ..." The least-satisfactory computer I've ever owned (won't even boot now) is a Toshiba with just such a chip -- wish I'd asked about that in the store.
If you bought an old Mustang and found out it was a four cylinder POS and not an eight cylinder monster would you feel cheated? Or would you feel stupid for not having researched a major purchase? Just because you have the cash on hand doesn't mean you have to buy something this second - check it out first. The internet is a fantastic way to learn the true specs of a product, especially computers. Use it.
Writers imply. Readers infer.
What you are talking about is actually a good feature for many laptops. If you want to maximize your performance while depending on battery, check your BIOS while booting. There probably is some switch for gliding between max. power savings and max. performance.
The article mentions in passing that the user has no control over this performance degradation.
Even if they did, it's hardly convienient have to reboot and enter the BIOS to rev up the processor in the midst of heavy operations.
I don't see why you would need it to run at the full speed on battery anyway. If you're doing something CPU-intensive enough to need the full speed of the chip, then you can almost certainly plug it in; for most other things, half speed is more than enough and doesn't even get noticed. It's not like you're only running with half the RAM active or something like that.
In fact, you mentioned that you saw it on THG. Did you notice it at all yourself when using the laptop? Or did it run just as well, and you just like getting offended at these sort of things (which seems like exactly what you're doing here).
This has been a test. Had this been a real emergency, we would have fled in terror and you would not have been informed.
This is a clear explanation of SpeedStep, it says as clear as day "You 500 mhz chip will operate at 300 mhz speeds"
I don't mean to give anyone a hard time but if you are going to spend more than $100 (or 0x64 dollars for that stupid hex guy) you would save a lot of aggrevation by doing some research.
In the future, I would want to not be isolated from my friends in the Space Station.
A friend of mine went through hell trying to get any customer service from Toshiba. Even when they finally agreed that he deserved a replacement, he got censored (and censured) for telling other customers.
Score: 5, Informative should, in this case, be Score: -1, Didn't Read The F'ing Article.
I quote: and So no, it is not a good feature for this laptop.four nine eighteen twenty-7 thirty-nine forty-7 fiftyeight sixty-nine seventy-9 eighty-8 one-hundred-and-nine one-twenty
I work in IT for a law firm. If any lawyer came up to me and asked for a laptop that did NOT have this feature (or to turn it off), I would laugh in their face. How hard is it to understand: 1) Computers have so much speed now that only the most graphic intensive game or the most complex calculations are going to come close to pushing their limit. 2) Batteries have not kept up with chips, and thus have laughable capacities for the things you use. 3) Unless you carry spare fully charged batteries with you, you have to be a moron not to use the incredibally helpfull feature that you are complaining about. Even if you are playing Doom, it is far better to play Doom for 2 hours with a slight jerkiness and speed reduction, than to lose power and have to kill the game 1 hour into your 2 hour train ride.
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There's not a whole lotta difference between "mobile" and desktop processors other than packaging.
Desktop CPU's use PGA's that were designed for socketed use. The extra 4 millimeters from the pins sticking out is worth it because it means the CPU can be swapped in and out. Flexibility is the goal here.
Mobile processors usually come in a BGA package because they're soldered directly to the motherboard via wave solder, or UV cured solder. Since they don't have that extra 4 millimeters of pins sticking out the bottom, their profile is smaller than that of a desktop processor.
Right now though, it seems a lot of manufacturers are at least trying to make the newer laptops as flexible as a desktop by offering expansion busses to replace the laptops video card, processor, ram ect.
Remember 7 or 8 years ago when you wanted to get laptop memory? Everytime you wanted to upgrade you would have to order a custom stick because the manufacturers were all doing their own thing. Back then they thought they had to keep every vertical market on their laptop to themselves. There were a few exceptions to this rule (chembook was one of the first to start using standard desktop parts in their laptops)
I don't think it's a bad thing either... Sorta lets you get more life outta your laptop.
"Like, I went to the store to buy this laptop, and uh, like I got it home, and figured out that if you didn't have it plugged into the wall, it runs like, um, half speed. *insert slow wierd sound here*
So, I returned it and bought an Apple iBook. I unplugged it from like the wall, and *insert strange zippy sound here* it was still running like at full speed.
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With as slow as Slashdot is running today, did someone enable Speed Step on the Slashdot servers? Maybe Cowboy Neal unplugged the servers so they are running in battery mode!
The point is Dell is using desktop CPU's in their SmartStep model laptops - and as a result these laptops don't behave like you would expect from a laptop using a 'Speedstep' compliant chip.
.. or buttons on the keyboard etc ..
Desktop CPU's are not compatible with Speedstep technology (Speedstep reduces speed - but allows the user to bypass this if need be within software)
The Dell SmartStep laptop actually reduces your speed by half in battery mode and this CANNOT be altered via software
Dell makes no mention of this fact on their website, product brochures, or any other material you would read before purchasing the laptop.
2. Common sense would tell you that a desktop processor running at full speed would drain a battery far too quickly.
How does this apply to Apple and its PowerBooks/iBooks, which get far greater battery life than PC laptops? Sorry, but that's quite a broad generalization you've got there.
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As I recall the first company to use the "smartstep" approach to portable computing was Apple with the 5300 series. However their solution then (even better with OS X) was only to run the CPU at what was required. If you were on the road and needed all the CPU horsepower, you got it, but inbetween clicks and hard drive activity, the CPU throttled down.
As to the chips themselves, lower power RISC chips actually can be used in both desktops and laptops and you don't have to deal with this sort of engineering workaround of marketing. The other issue with using many desktop chips in laptops is heat. For instance, my mother purchased an Wintel laptop with a desktop chip that was designed with a huge fan on the bottom of the computer, so that if you actually placed it on your lap, you would block the fan and the laptop would overheat and shutdown. I bought her a Powerbook (the first Mac she ever owned) and she has never gone back to the Wintel crowd. It's thin, it's light and she always has all the power she needs battery or AC power.
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If you bought an old Mustang and found out it was a four cylinder POS and not an eight cylinder monster would you feel cheated?
.8 Ghz faster than my current 1.2 Ghz computer."
I would feel cheated if the dealer told me it was an eight cylinder mark2, and expected me to do extra research to find out that the mark2 eight cylinder engine would disable half the cylinders whenever I took it out of the driveway.
The problem has two possible solutions (and I'd recommend a combination of both):
1. Consumers should better educate themselves before buying, or
2. Companies should avoid using misleading advertisements.
Most folks see a laptop ad that says "2.0 Ghz processor featuring SpeedStep technology," but only come away believing that "this new 2.0 Ghz computer is
We've seen similar naming problems with 3d graphics cards. Geforce4 MX (slower than Geforce 3ti) vs. Geforce 4 4600 (faster than 3ti), or Radeon 9700 vs. Radeon 9700 Pro. Sometimes "Pro" or "Deluxe" means better. Other times "Pro" or "Deluxe" means crappier. (Ok so deluxe usually means crappier, but you get my point)
I think the main problem stems from the fact that computer performance cannot be fairly conveyed in a few convenient, marketable numbers. AMD has been combating that status quo with their XP naming scheme; Athlon Tbird 1.4 Ghz vs. new Athlon XP 1600 (runs at 1.4 Ghz) vs. Pentium 1.6 Ghz.
So, who is responsible for getting the information to the customer that speedstep technology would significantly slow down their portable computer whenever they go on battteries?
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That being said, every state in the US has a version of the Uniform Commercial Code. Section 2-313 deals with Express Warranties. Any affirmation of fact or promise or description of the goods creates an express warranty which is breached if the goods sold and delivered do not conform to the factual affirmation or description or if the promise made is broken. For example, if the processor speed is labeled as 1 GHz, the consumer is entitled to rely on the 1 GHz measure. A split 1 GHz/500 MHz ration when running on AC/battery does not conform to the affirmation of fact (processor speed) made by the merchant and could be said to breach the express warranty.
Section 2-314 is the Implied Warranty of Merchantability. The warranty is created simply by virtue of making the sale. If the goods sold are not such that would pass without objection in the trade then the warranty has been breached. Here, the argument would be that the industry creates mobile versions of chips for laptops because of battery life concerns. If someone wants to depart from that practice and use a speed slowdown to reduce power consumption, then that fact must be disclosed and agreed-to by the consumer prior to the sale. Otherwise, the consumer is entitled to rely on the standard practice when making the purchase. Such undisclosed use of "slowed" desktop processors would not pass without objection in the trade and could be said to breach the implied warranty of merchatability.
Additionally, virtually every state has a "Little FTC Act" or Consumer Protection statute. These statutes outlaw "unfair or deceptive" business practices. Breaches of warranty are usually automatic violations of these statutes. The penalty is usually up to three times your damages (for example, the cost of your laptop times 3) plus attorneys fees if you hire a lawyer.
Laws affecting technology will always be bad until enough techies become lawyers.
Our local Fry's is selling these things under the brand QuickNote. We bought two of them for customer visits to our co. and we may get a few more. It has an AMD desktop 1Ghz cpu in it with a massive heatpipe -> a copper radiator like structure. Amazing looking. It has NO battery. Don't let the A/C cord fall out! It has WindowsXP home prebundled. Uses DDR PC2100 memory (128Meg of which windows only see's 96, must be the AGP screen buffer eats the other 32Mb). Think about that price for a moment... XP alone is like $100 to an OEM (or is it?...)
Also the unit has a warning on it that the feet must be in the down position, tilting the case off the flat so that airflow can move to the radiator.
I had heard when the P4 came out, Taiwan Inc figured out how to duct the heat out of a desktop cpu based notebook so they could be the first to offer a P4 notebook.
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Speedstep is a fairly easy thing to research; they make a point of saying that laptops have it.. it's quite clearly labeled as such....
And a speedstep enabled machine will let you run it at full clock all the time if you want to, easily. For instance, my laptop has a nice button on the windows system tray that lets me flip it between different cpu settings.
In this case, the laptop does NOT have speedstep, it's a desktop processor, and the laptop is basically hardwired to run it at half speed when the AC is disconnected, the user has absolutely no way to change this behavior.
It's not a common behavior, and one I think most readers here would not even know about until they looked in detail at those specific models of laptop.
No, Mhz is not an all-encompasing speed indicator. but it's still quite releveant, and the difference between 1Ghz and 500Mhz is rather large, especially when you are forking out several thousand dollars.
So, instead of "feeling dirty" because the people who designed your laptop were intelligent about it, why not "feel dirty" because you don't know enough about computers to understand why this is an issue, or maybe "feel dirty" because you've been sucked into the trap of thinking that clock speed is the be-all and end-all of computer performance.
It's a year and a half later (halfway through my warranty - eep!) and I'm still just as happy with it as the day I got it.
Point being; I did my research beforehand (it was actually about 2 months before I bought it. As a result of my patience, I got an extra 200MHz, 5GB of HDD space, and double the RAM), then I made sure I was satisfied with my purchase before it was too late.
For all who've said 'Caveat Emptor' - good on you. Merely having a credit card isn't a license to spend money like it's going out of style. Spend wisely, think before you buy, and most important of all pay attention.
(And yes, Slashdot was slow for me all day on a 3MB connection)
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